AMD shows off details of K8L

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05-16-2006, 02:26 PM
alexio

250mm3 quad-core cpu's, I guess they will NEED voltage adjustment for each seperate core :rolleyes:

EDIT: Ofcourse because of scaling problems that would occur with such a large die.
05-16-2006, 02:41 PM
Shadowmage

That's for the servers... I wouldn't be surprised if half of those features weren't supported on the desktop versions.
05-16-2006, 03:01 PM
Revv23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooper

I see AMD already implemented Z-Ram tech into K8L - just look how less space does memory takes.

Good Catch!!!

That is one tiny little cache!
05-16-2006, 03:03 PM
alexio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revv23

Good Catch!!!

That is one tiny little cache!

And one slow cache. I think it would still need a faster L2 cache besides it. Maybe they can make the cpu as fast but smaller using this tech by making the L2 cache very small and the L3 cache much larger in kb with this tech.
05-16-2006, 03:10 PM
Carfax

If the FPUs are 2x64, then I doubt the K8L will have the 1 cycle throughput that Merom and Conroe has.

But I may be wrong.
05-16-2006, 03:18 PM
Shadowmage

That may be true, but then K8L will have nearly double the FPUs as that of NGMA. It'll also have one more SSE unit than the NGMA.
05-16-2006, 03:22 PM
situman

Nice, AMD effectively killed most early AM2 sales. I know I will be sitting on my hands and wallets and see what K8L offers before I switch platforms.
05-16-2006, 04:39 PM
nn_step

Mmmmm DDR3 :D
05-16-2006, 04:49 PM
Repoman

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexio

And one slow cache. I think it would still need a faster L2 cache besides it. Maybe they can make the cpu as fast but smaller using this tech by making the L2 cache very small and the L3 cache much larger in kb with this tech.

How slow is it :stick: I imagine AMD would make it quite a bit faster than the DDR2/3 RAM or it's not even worth having it on there
05-16-2006, 06:38 PM
MaxxxRacer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Repoman

How slow is it :stick: I imagine AMD would make it quite a bit faster than the DDR2/3 RAM or it's not even worth having it on there

As far as the latest data (that I have read anyway) on Z-Ram is concerned it is slower than conventional L2 Cache.
05-16-2006, 06:40 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

As far as the latest data (that I have read anyway) on Z-Ram is concerned it is slower than conventional L2 Cache.

Only when the capacity is below 2Mb ;) the larger the Cache the faster it is compared to traditional Cache
05-16-2006, 06:42 PM
Repoman

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

As far as the latest data (that I have read anyway) on Z-Ram is concerned it is slower than conventional L2 Cache.

I figured that, only makes sense that L3 cache will be slower than L2. L1>L2>L3, but you can only have so much the fastest levels.. imagine 4MB of ~23GB/s L1, no need for anything else
05-16-2006, 07:04 PM
kl0012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmage

That may be true, but then K8L will have nearly double the FPUs as that of NGMA. It'll also have one more SSE unit than the NGMA.

It has 2x128 bit SSE units (ADD+MUL) and can handle up to 4 DP FLOPS/cycle. Conroe can do exactly the same thing.
http://news.com.com//i/ne/p/2006/amdslide4_532x402.jpg
05-16-2006, 07:11 PM
nn_step

Don't you love the Irony.. I was saying DDR3 and was getting ripped upon by it because of AMD slides yet now AMD slides seem to agree with me after all.. :p:
05-16-2006, 07:35 PM
Bar81

Quote:

Originally Posted by situman

Nice, AMD effectively killed most early AM2 sales. I know I will be sitting on my hands and wallets and see what K8L offers before I switch platforms.

The smart people were already doing this :p:
05-16-2006, 07:36 PM
alexio

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Don't you love the Irony.. I was saying DDR3 and was getting ripped upon by it because of AMD slides yet now AMD slides seem to agree with me after all.. :p:

You said AM2 would use DDR3 right? This is not quite AM2, this is K8L and will follow after AM2.
05-16-2006, 07:37 PM
Bar81

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Don't you love the Irony.. I was saying DDR3 and was getting ripped upon by it because of AMD slides yet now AMD slides seem to agree with me after all.. :p:

Keep on playing in your little dream world. You got ripped because you were pulling things out of your uninformed ass. Oh gee, you're such a genius for predicting that after DDR2, AMD would be going to....wait for it....almost there...DDR3!!!

You just don't know when to stop embarassing yourself. You're clueless.
05-16-2006, 07:40 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexio

You said AM2 would use DDR3 right? This is not quite AM2, this is K8L and will follow after AM2.

M2, AM2 is something a little bit different ;)
05-16-2006, 07:54 PM
situman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bar81

The smart people were already doing this :p:

Some smart people sometimes needs a little more persuasion
05-16-2006, 09:23 PM
Bar81

Quote:

Originally Posted by situman

Some smart people sometimes needs a little more persuasion

Fair enough :D
05-16-2006, 09:30 PM
hipro5

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickS

Oohh I cant WAIT to see results for this. This is going to be the real competition guys, get ready for both Intel & AMD to kick eachothers asses till the end. It's gonna be great. :D

Honestly, there can be cons too. If they're equally performing, ppl will be like, "OMG intel is WAAY better," or "OMG amd is WAYY better," when theres no *clear* winner. Oh well... we will see... we will see :evil:

Nick

IF they both do perform quit well, there are some questions.....Is AMD going to drop prices so as to be competitive?....coz if not, they will lose the game......;) .....Are the AMD's new CPUs NOT going to have a cold bug problem?.....coz if they DO have a cold bug problem and Conroe don't, they'll lose as overclockers.....;)
05-16-2006, 10:15 PM
MaxxxRacer

I think the cold bug question is a long dead one. After discovering the reasons for the cold bug, it seems likely that they will not be fixed in later iterations of AMD CPU's unless there is a HUGE redesign of the entire arhcitecture.

BUT I could be wrong.. (kind of hope that I am)
05-16-2006, 10:21 PM
Vapor

If nV could patch up G70-256's coldbug (bugged for very similar reasons) for the G70-512 and G71, I'd bet AMD can do it. Whether or not they will is another story. I would really love to see non-CB'd AMD chips and have real competition at the top for a sustained time. The CB is damn annoying on a few levels (not that I've ever run into a problem with the coldbug (even with DICE, lol)).
05-16-2006, 10:23 PM
NinjaWreck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bar81

Keep on playing in your little dream world. You got ripped because you were pulling things out of your uninformed ass. Oh gee, you're such a genius for predicting that after DDR2, AMD would be going to....wait for it....almost there...DDR3!!!

You just don't know when to stop embarassing yourself. You're clueless.

Can we please get off of this argument? It seems every AMD thread leads to an nn_step bashing. Does it really matter if he's BSing people or not? It's not like he's giving up any useful information.
05-17-2006, 05:16 AM
DilTech

Quote:

Originally Posted by keiths

He seems to say they go a lot deeper in increasing IPC, but adding instructions is, well, adding instructions, not improving IPC. The changes to keep the thing better feed should improve IPC. The doubling of floating point is also an IPC improvement but old news and only matches what Conroe does. L3 was also expected but they talk of it as recovering lost performance of added latency from increasing number of cores but there's a chance this will improve IPC past just recouping. The rest are non performance features for servers. The unknown that I've an open mind on is how much of a speed up the feeding improvments will give but it looks as expected and still, despite his insistance otherwise, more or less like a tweaked K8.

Floating point is conroes weakness, Int is conroes strong point. Doubling the FPU on K8L will allow it to MAUL conroe in floating point calculations, they won't even be on the same page.

Also, if it's more efficient at those extensions, like it should be, that would allow it to do them in less cycles, which would increase the IPC, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

I think the cold bug question is a long dead one. After discovering the reasons for the cold bug, it seems likely that they will not be fixed in later iterations of AMD CPU's unless there is a HUGE redesign of the entire arhcitecture.

BUT I could be wrong.. (kind of hope that I am)

Actually.... Am I wrong in thinking that 130nm A64's didn't have the cold bug? If I'm not mistaken(I could be as I don't do sub-zero) it wasn't until winchester that the cold bug showed it's ugly head... If that's the case, there's a 50/50(130nm didn't vs 90nm did) chance that A64's at 65nm won't have the bug, right?

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