Yes, k0nsl, they have even representation in my home, Czech republic, however they did not have much. Definitively no Samxons or Rubycons MCZ there ;)
So, for mobo moders - useless ;)
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Yes, k0nsl, they have even representation in my home, Czech republic, however they did not have much. Definitively no Samxons or Rubycons MCZ there ;)
So, for mobo moders - useless ;)
I want quote some tables for different brands Ultra Low ESR capacitors.:D
Big Pope - welcome! :D Yep, I already checked the Samxons well and when the GA line are ready, they should become the best caps ever. Even now, many of the GC ones are toe-to-toe with Rubycon MCZ caps, witch are the best ones now... :p: (apart from Nichicon HZ - both very hard to obtain) :rolleyes:
And now a little update! :D
In recent minutes I get my hand on another dead (destroyed Vdd mosfet by puling the heasing - broken in half) DFI LP B mobo - Taiwan made one. But the point why I write this is - over the board, it is full of Teapo caps!!! Now this is quite a bad thing, since they are known as BAD CAPS BRAND!
The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage
Teapo - http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=424
List of Bad Cap Manufacturers
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=388
Teapo - http://www.teapo.com.tw/
So, no wonder the max OC is getting lower and in time - that is ever worser that the ST caps I have on both my china-made ones...!
It is likely the voltage regulation/something is better on them or somethings, as the OC is claimed by SAE that are better on Taiwan made ones, IIRC Vdrop did not react on China ones, but does on Taiwan ones.
But maybe it is time to check the specs of the caps :)
Caps could do huge difference - I mean - maybe the Teapos are better in the ESR/ESL aspect that the ST ones my China mobo have, but just have shorter life?
After all, I have now in my possesion 2x China and 1x Taiwan mobos and I'm positive I could made them all work (if I get the need parts), not only the one I actually resuscitated, so some testing coudl be done...
But I definitively replace the Teapos all, because the previous owner having hard time at 200Mhz FSB... witch is not a overclocking at all... :)
My final idea (after discovering how bad the other that Chemi-con caps on the DFI LP B mobos are) of recapping the mobo looking like this:
http://ax2.old-cans.com/DFI_LP_B_caps2.jpg
As you can see, pretty much all bigger caps get replaced.
Caps 1 - 5 was 3300uF 6.3V Chemi-con KZG ones, but now there are better the Panasonic FM ones with 4700uF 6.3V.
Caps 6 - 8 was 1500uF 16V KZG ones as well, replaced by 2200uF 16V Panasonic FM ones.
Capacitor 9 was 1000uF 10V OST crap, now there are 2200uF 16V Panasonic FM one, as Last Viking recommended high capacity there.
Empty space 10 recieved 470uF cap.
Empty space 11 seems blockin when fited with 470uF one the start of ram-controlles, so ATM remaining empty, I might try it once again to be sure...
Empty spaces 12 - 24 recieved 120uF 16V Panasonic FM caps, with the exception of space 13 and 18 in witch case I'm not sure, so later...
And todays I started dumping the OST crap out of my mobo, four pieces of 470uF 16V (25 - 28) get replaced for the Panasonic ones, because the mobo like hang in the evening (when get heated because folding all the day - tomorrow we see) and I did not like this at all. When you look at the picture, it seems that they are into sensitive areas as well, so it might help. Two are right up to the cap 1 and cap 6 - I quessing powering of the onboard NIC and USB, witch is important. The third one is just on the right top AGP slot corner, close to the coil. This could be important cap as well, OST has no place there - filtering some of the AGP voltages proably? And fourth one is at the bottom of the mobo, right next to the yellow USB ports and next to the hole. Filtering USB voltage might not be the most important thing, however the crap has to get off from my mobo and I had some USB problems right before the "big bang", so it has to get off...
Now is pissing me only the four 220uF 10V craps (close and between the ram slots - 40 to 43), next six 1000uF 6.3V around the ram slots and stuff (29 - 34) and the ram's powering by 2x 1000uF 10V (36 and 37) + 470uF 6.3V - 35. This one is going to get replaced by 560uF one. And yes, exactly these two, where Last Viking recommend to add two 2200uF caps from the bottom side to these ones, as you can see on his pic.
And so I will add these! :D:
Now there is missing only eight empty space pieces for 10uF 16V polymer caps, where I will add 10uF 16V ceramic ones (ceramic is better in specs even that polymer, I suppose, right?) and another eight pieces of 5.6uF ones. Half of them are missing in and half bellow the CPU socket, where I will add hi-quality 4.7uF 10V Taiyo Yuden caps.
(sadly they did not have 5.6uF or 4.7uF for less that 10V - 6.3 or even 4V are much better choice there, as the Vcore are nowhere near 10V...)
And oh well, I almost forget that caps 1 - 10 and 36 + 37 will be bypassed by 100nF 16V filtering SMD caps from the bottom side of the mobo for better filtration and getting rid of as much noise, as possible :D:
Now only get hold on the caps, finally! :(
Yes, yes, yes! I plugged into the poor mobo all the additional caps I planed except cap no, 11 and it is still working! And stable!
http://ax2.old-cans.com/DFI_LP_B_caps2.jpg
This make me awfully happy!
The mentioned instability culprit was found - surprise - it was the cheap GF2MX videocard. I quess I have to stick with Jaton for the passive GF2MX cards and recap this one as well :D
Even before the caps exchange I make the mobo stable yb just replacing the GF2MX by FX5600 card ;)
Oh, well, on the picture is missing from bottom side added two pieces of 2200uF caps for rams - where Last Viking used them - right bellow to te caps 36 and 37 :) And caps 1 - 10 and 36 + 37 as well will get bypassed by 100uF 16V ceramic SMD caps for better filtering as well :D
Now just gimme, gimme, gimme me the damn caps need to do the job and...! :D
Preliminary recapping results :eek:
I spendt last two days soldering new caps on the DFI LP B mobo and even there is still 6 the old bad caps (I ordered wrong size, forget to check, my fault), the results are so far not amazing, but stunning! :eek:
I have a oldie Barton, unlocked, 2500+. I killed my Epox 8RDA+ mobo with desperate attempts to run it at 2200Mhz (3200+ 200x11), because it need 2.1Vcore (!!!) to run stable there. Todays I made slight mistake in bios and to my shock, the mobo posted fine with PR3200+ rating settings at only 1.850Vcore witch I used to reach 2100Mhz...!
With little tweaking I discovered that 1.900Vcore is Prime95 stable at 2200Mhz, while before I need 2.1V on the Epox 8RDA+.
Now that IS what I would call improvement!
I just wonder how much more Last Viking could gain for FSB or how much more MHz SAE can get if theirs mobos was modded the way I do it - adding not only hi-quality caps, but bridging them with 100uF ceramic SMD filtering caps where possible and then also adding hi-quality ceramics 4.7uF ones into (4x) and bellow (4x) the CPU socket to futher filter the voltage.
I added the filtering everywhere I can and the results are, well, outstanding. Im so happy with them :D
Brief history of what I did:
http://ax2.old-cans.com/DFI_LP_B_caps2.jpg
CAP 18 canno't be installed of mobo did not POST!
CAP17 I made the 220uF 10V one isntead of the 120uF 16V one.
CAPs 36 and 37 are bridged from back of the mobo with 2200uF 10V caps and also at the same time bridged with 100nF filtering SMD caps.
CAPs 7 and 8 canno't be bridged with 100nF filtering caps or the mobo did not POST!
CAPs 1 to 6, 9 and 10 are bridged with 100uF SMD caps from bottom of the mobo for better filtering as well ;)
Then there are 9 empty spaces where SMD 10uF electrolyt caps are soldered elsewhere on the mobo. I used 10uF SMD ceramic ones, however there are 3 positions witch cause NO-POST scenario. One of these are capable of serious bios corruption, as I experienced when I soldered the cap there :( Beware!
Again in graphic - do NOT put cap in there:
http://www.slibe.com/images/ebce2c7b...put_cap_in.jpg
OR there:
http://www.slibe.com/images/6bf454a2...put_cap_in.jpg
...and that it is! :D Now the area around the Vdimm + Vdd mosfets are pretty crowded with caps and once I get hold of the 1200uF 6.3V caps, I try (with reasonable cooling and usable CPU) how far this beast will clock :D
Obsession with large bulk caps? Hell yea! :)
http://ax2.old-cans.com/badthingshap...0obsession.jpg
First, voltage report + pics.
Real Vcore? I have set 1.900Vcore in bios for the poor oldie unlocked Barton with can't handle more that 2200Mhz. I measured Vcore with latest CPUZ, and load or iddle - it oscilate slowly but all the time between 1.872 and 1.888V. So much for the cheap chips to measure the voltages, eh. My DMM show other things. On load it says 1.938 and on iddle it says 1.919 and in both cases there is absolutely NO changes in the voltage in time. Not even at the 3th digit!
This is IMHO good, but what the hell means that the iddle is lower that the load voltage?
Still too bad filtering? Or?
Damn, I have to buy the expensive oscilloscope to actually see the voltages, eh...
Anyway, I did not measured the voltage at the socket. I used the input leg to the coil. Hope this did not affect the reading's in any way too much? I know that best will be hold the mobo in vertical and measure on the caps I solder there from bottom, but... I feared I will short something, so...
Is this measuring okay? And what it means?
To me it looks like pis*poor job, when the iddle/load voltage differ so much... Well, actually 0.019V is not too much, but still - should it not be better stable? For all the mods, huh?
Anyway, couple of pictures for viewing pleasure:
http://www.slibe.com/images/4b311486-0118_jpg.jpg
Recapping of my DFI LP B mobo started. Panasonic FM caps used. First the failed ones...
http://www.slibe.com/images/6e98a077-0119_jpg.jpg
Let's not forget the Vcore ones.
http://www.slibe.com/images/fe9c1e36-0120_jpg.jpg
And the support Vcore ones on the side of the CPU, up to the NB heatsink.
http://www.slibe.com/images/648065d6-0121_jpg.jpg
Overal look - looks promising.
http://www.slibe.com/images/00b7912e-0122_jpg.jpg
The Vdd + Vdimm area get pretty crowdy with caps now!
http://www.slibe.com/images/264fd669-0123_jpg.jpg
There are still the two dam OST caps yet...
http://www.slibe.com/images/916de785-0124_jpg.jpg
And these has quite hard time to fit there, but I did my best - f*ck the rest.
http://www.slibe.com/images/4a249ffb-0125_jpg.jpg
And it is time for serious modification! Now - who need COM, LPT and SP/DIF ports, when use X-Fi?
http://www.slibe.com/images/4ff13f30-0126_jpg.jpg
It create more space for heatsink as well, as make the airflow better. So, why not?
things are looking great - i like it!
As for load being higher then idle, this is a good thing, the idea is that when cpu hits load the vreg puts more power into the cpu, this is always the case, but due to weak voltage delivery, voltage drops. In your case, the voltage delivery is overcompensating a bit, a good thing if you ask me. Many high quality PSU's do the same thing, show weak rails without load but when you load them they go rock stable.
That looks like some hard work trodas. Great job. How much do you think you'll gain. I see that it only takes 1.9v instead of 2.1 to reach 2.2ghz stable, so 2.4 might be a possibility. Next mod: Change caps in the PSU & GPU;)
And now a little update. I finally get hold of the remaining caps and finished my mobo and begin with little OC, witch should show how the mobo was improved - if at all. For start I used freshly obtained AXP-M 2400+ CPU, witch is not very good clocker, it need terribly high 1.950Vcore to pass Hexus PI fast stable at poor 2700Mhz, however - there we go:
http://www.slibe.com/images/012c20f7-cpuz250x11_gif.gif
In case you wonder - yes, it is validated: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=83894
(hexus PI fast not fake - v4.1 used, grab it there and see how fast you can make it for yourself - AXP WR is 43.92 sec by SAE)
I'm going to exchange the CPU for my 2600+ one for some true benchmarking, tough it looks like the job was at least did not make the OC worser, hehe :p:
Now again few pics of my modifications!
http://www.slibe.com/images/1e41d143..._top_4SMD_.jpg
Adding the 4.7uF caps into the Socket A on DFI LP B - yep, they aren't there before.
http://www.slibe.com/images/3b95ec29..._bottom_4S.jpg
Adding another four 4.7uF SMD caps from bottom of the Socket.
http://www.slibe.com/images/bc7acc4b...ng_right_V.jpg
Bridging right Vcore mosfet is most problematic one - the shortcut between layers are connected on the Vcore groud, while the right leg of the cap is positive Vcore voltage and believe me - you don't want co connect these two...!
http://www.slibe.com/images/436605ae...ng_added_r.jpg
On the other hand, bridging added ram caps from bottom is almost easy task. Won't looking too good, but do the job.
http://www.slibe.com/images/1f7f038e...waited_rep.jpg
That's are one of the last long-awaited caps in my mobo soldered already. Hooray for them!
And BTW, just a easy shoot with 2600+ mobile:
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=84643
:D: :D: :D:
really nice ;)
no Vmods like Vcore, Vdimm or VDD ??
which vcore do you need for 2,8xx ??
Thanks :p: Actually, due to HDD crash I lost some nicer pics of better done "bridging", however... I'm using the machine right now, so, no more pics/benches/crazy tests/mods untill I get faster machine, hehe :)
No mods except OCP mod yet at all :p: :D
I simply set 2.0Vcore and trying how far I can get. The 2400+ Mobile topped benchable on the 2756, the 2600+ suxxka will probably get close to 2900 benchable and maybe 3000 for CPU-Z screenshot, but no bench, hehe :D ;)
So far, for 1.800Vcore I get 2610Mhz (227x11.5) all day long on load folding and it is stable - cooled by FANLESS watercooling only! :D
(true, my case has so many holes, hehe, but still - it is silent, very silent :) BTW, no more ughly coil noises, a little (very little sometimes), however it is gone!)
Any updates trodas??
Nope, nope. Got other much more important problems like dead server right now in repair:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2158
...and therefore playing with the mobo is postponned. Futhermore the recapped Taiwan one is working fine and stable folding, however the China one seems unstable in the long run. Could be that in my room is about 30-32°C, but I still think that 200x12 it could manage w/o problems. Could be also heatsink problem, however I can't get there the Big Typhoon, so until I can buy it somewhere, I don't know what to do...
As far as recapping goes, I exchanged even the 10uF small caps for the 10uF SMD ceramics, eh :p: :D
Also I learned that some caps has not to be used with higher capacity that they are installed in the first time... A interesting experience :rolleyes:
Cap 35 seems not be okay when it was over 470uF one... (used 560uF, and memory test always give error on both boards... inserted 470uF and it run fine ... and the recent China one crashing is a new thing. I believe it has to do something with heat or PSU, yet I would first like a decent cooler there to judge...) :rolleyes:
guys sorry to be a digger,but I need your help
My board is giving me crazy,if I move something of place (sata,pcis,a jumper from hdd,anything) the board keeps on rebooting,it won't even get me into the loading thing..I've tried different mems,different hdd,different psu,almost everything,so I guess it could be the caps right?my board has lots of ost caps,two or three teapos,and around the cpu KZG ones (can't remember the brand).
I use this thing 24/7 @245fsb or more..about 2600mhz..
do you think it is worth put extra caps?