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I find it very sad that DFI are not accepting responsibility for the dead CPU's for sure unless they sort this out I will not buy another DFI product. I would take legal action if I lost a CPU I cannot do with companies who brush things aside.
I had to take out a bank loan to sort out a problem that I caused some years back because it was the right thing to do, I might not have much money but I can sleep at night and I know I've never ripped anyone off or given bad service.
Yay this bios fixed it on my end, If you see my post here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&postcount=64 i flashed it to this beta biso today and all is good on the same board, no more dead CPUs :) Goo job DFI :D, I have to say it took alot of talking to get my boss to let pput another chip in this board after the last effort. It seems to be an isolated case as our second expert has no issues at all from what i can see so far, still testing but so far im happy and so is the boss :D
well @ least they are addressing the issue in some way . instead of forgetting about it by jus calling it "rare" so you can play roulette
aua 3v, that is hurt .
thanks for the update, i burn it :toast:
I remember it very well, just not the way you do......... The problem was found by the scientific community and it effected very few applications or users. My recollection is that Intel came to the party kicking and screaming and refused to acknowledge the problem until someone (not Intel) released a utility that ran a calculation that proved you had the problem. Their willingness to finally address the problem was based on public outcry and the national press (Wall Street Journal articles and the like), not because they were a respectable company…….. When you own 98% of the market and have the deep pockets that they do, it’s smarter to take the hit then let the bad press continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu117
This situation is very different as the incidents are few and have not yet been tied back to this potential problem. If it’s confirmed that a few folks lost a chip as a result, were not close enough to the end to know how DFI is going to handle it..... But let’s be objective ‘bout this. Kunaak was kind enough to give us a heads-up at the risk of starting a panic and it appears that could have been a mistake. Considering the response to his post thus far, any potential problems that he may be aware of down road probably won’t be shared. Everyone here knows the options and alternatives so it’s nothing to lose any sleep over. If you’re worried ‘bout it, flash to 12-07. If that doesn’t put you at ease, run a $70.00 board for the time being….. But either way I think we should just chill until there’s more info available….. IMHO only, no disrespect to anyone…
If they know their board is killing chips, even at a rate of 1 in 100,000 I would think they would pony up and cover the 6, 8 or 10 that people have had blow up. Like I always say, one pissed customer leads to 7 or 8 losts sales. I guess they will be losing what, 50-60 customers if not?? LOL
I KNEW I SHOULD HAVE WENT S939 lol yea i'd pay 200 bux for that :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
Its nice that they are working on a solution, but the statement that it is a rare occurence oversimplifies things just a bit.
Lets say it was only 8-10 cpus dead....these are the reported burned units....could be more. And I would wager that the majority of people who lost cpu's were using high end chips due to the fact that the board was custom made for overclocking enthusiasts. We could easily be looking at $4000+ worth of dead cpu's. Now that may be chump change to DFI...but not to us.
I agree that people should try to relax over the issue and see how things pan out. You never know, maybe something will happen to help these people recover either their money or lost hardware. The problem for DFI with this is that if they were to replace either cash or hardware, they would basically set a dangerous precedent for people to say a motherboard killed their expensive cpu versus themselves. Then you have constant complaints to DFI from people trying to force the company to cover any and all losses while using one of their products. The smart thing for them to do would be to communicate with these poor souls discretely so as to avoid these 10 or so claims turning into 20 or 30 or .... Maybe have them agree to a confidentiality clause.
And as for Angelina....only if she wears her Tomb Raider outfit and makes me call her mommy. ::woot::
Lets take a quick look at this fact here:
1) By releasing an updated BIOS and claiming that a "fix" has been provided for the frying of CPUs undeniably proves an admission of guilt on the part of DFI.
2) Most companies include in their LIMITED warranty a statement that releases them from an liability for the loss of other components or associated labor costs for the replacement of any item that is destoryed/damaged by their fault product. (Imagine the cost to say a hard drive company if someone tried to claim reimbursement for the cost of their irreplacable data on a failed drive?)
3) DFI is a maker of high-performance, overclock marketed motherboards. To sell a product that is manufactured for a certain application and then to not warranty failure/defect/design problems associated with that intended application is at best morally wrong.
Which brings me to MY conclusion. DFI has a professional obligation to:
a) release a press statement regarding the KNOWN problem
b) recall all boards in the supply chain
c) allow anyone that bought an eXpert board to send it into DFI for a full refund (including shipping costs at time of purchase AND time of return) or exchange for a NEW board with a flashed BIOS
d) reimburse anyone that lost a CPU(s) for ACTUAL replacement cost
e) and lastly, pray that we all can forgive DFI for trying to keep this under wraps for so long...WHY HAVE WE NOT RECEIVED FORMAL WORD ON THIS PROBLEM...WHY DOES THIS BIOS JUST APPEAR? They must have known about this for quite awhile now. Sad
To anyone that thinks that the likelyhood of a fault eXpert board of killing thier CPU is small...well, continue using you board but don't get upset if you lose a CPU. To those that like to play the odd and take chances. Again, your choice BUT DON'T GET UPSET WITH THOSE THAT HAVE LOST A CPU. You're stupidity and acceptance of poor quality should not be reflected on us. If you think your chance of losing a CPU is 1 in 10,000 then tell yourself what you need to. I personally would be very upset if I lost a 3.6Ghz FX-57 to this board. Think of it this way, how many time would you point a gun at your CPU and pull the trigger (i.e. press the reset/power button) before your thought your odds were getting high that the gun would fire....
-FCG
Quote:
Originally Posted by freecableguy
:clap:
Two :thumbsup:
Well said FCG.
The biggest problem they face, besides the issue with replacing boards or cpus, is the real possibility of having to replace customers. And I am sure they are well aware that replacing hardware is a hell of alot easier than replacing a loyal customer.
By sitting by and doing nothing, other than a bios fix, they run the real risk of big profit drops due to this. Not counting the people who lost their cpu's, consider the people who were about to buy one of those high end boards. Granted its only a 1/4 of the cost of a high end cpu, but its one of the most expensive motherboards around....so the lost revenue is nothing to shrug off. I was looking into one, but not so sure now. May go the A8N32 route now.
Here's a take on it from an outsider(i.e. someone who does not own an Expert and can't afford one right now):
I'm a poor college kid that can't afford to build a new rig right now. But I have a wishlist. And since the day I first heard about the new DFI Skt. 939 mobo(turned out to be the Ultra-D) way back in mid-2004, that has been the ONLY mobo on my list. That list has now been updated to the Expert. But honestly, something like this will most certainly take DFI off my list. This is not because I am just angry at DFI or anything, but rather b/c I simply could not afford to lose a new CPU. I def. would not have the money to buy an FX-57 in the first place, but even if I only lost a $300 proc, i'd be S.O.L. At that point of knowing taht I'm play with fire(even if the chances are 1 in 10,00 or whatever), I'd have to go to some other brand, even if performance suffered a bit.
Now with that said, I'd really cannot imagine DFI actually ponying up for these dead CPUs, even if its (becoming) public knowledge that thier board caused it. Unfortunate, really. I too would like to hear an official word from a DFI rep in a statement or here on the boards, even though I don't have an actual stake in this matter.
Why would they ever admit to anything? It makes no sense. They know they have the market sewn up and there is no other board that offers the options that they do. Who is to say that the end user is not responsible for frying the CPU? If the board is run at stock settings does it fry CPUs? Does it only happen when overclocking? There are far too many variable to even expect DFI to care. I would be more than amazed if they even considered replacing anything. Where are the people who aren't buying DFI boards going to go for a premier overclocking board? You can say you'll never buy one again, and they will not care the least. They care more about the mass market than the individual. If they replace even one CPU for anyone, they will open up a whole new world of lawsuits brought on by every dumbass that cannot set up his PC properly and fries it. It will never happen.
Unfortunately there is no way that they can pay for the fried CPUs.
Anybody could send in any friend CPU and there would be no way to tell whether an Expert or RDX200 fried it, and if it did you still wouldn't know whether it was the BIOS bug or whether the user had an "ooops" somewhere on his own account.
DFI is second tier mobo maker and their flagship mobo used to be Ultra-D/SLI DR which gave them one of the best sales.
They have to save their Expert/RDX200 line of products if they want to keep the momentum:)
For me, the DFI was a non-contender from the start, as I've lost four NF2 boards to the blasted cold boot issue. If they had that issue then, and then the other cold boot issue with the NF4, I won't chance my hardware. I spend a large amount on hardware, but that's all for making my family and I PCs, not replacing parts that refuse to function. I've got an A8N-SLI just because the DFI isn't an option to me.
Losing customers? I was lost long ago.
for info the 12/12 beta bios for the RDX200 has the following description:
To improve the correct detection of voltage after replacing battery.
Just to add even if you come into this problem you can get your cpu/mb replaced by DFI as long as you dont go and alter the board. Dont take that yellow sticky crap off the NB or anything like that.
But Kunakk is right the chances of this happening is slim to none
Be carefull what you ask for. DFI should have stepped up with a more public statement, but DFI bashing will only serve to get us less overclocking options and less user control in the end. At least they took the lead in giving us what no one else was until they started to. Sure their will be problems along the way, but people should be aware that when they overclock and build their own systems, their is a good possiblility of loosing $ on stuff that simply can't be returned. I goes with the territory unfortunately. People thinking about getting into overclocking and system building should be aware of this and make an informed decision and be prepared for a possible loss of some sort. The only way to get everything covered is to buy a prebuilt system. And yes we really are buying beta hardware, same as we do with software that is buggy and needs constant patching, but again let the buyer beware.
it's some pretty amazing demands made in this post here... irrational if you ask me...
recall the entire line?
make them reimburse the people?
a public statement?
ok... recall the line?
why?
if you can name me 100 people, before today, that have had thier CPU die in this board, sure I would agree with you.
but before most people even read this post, no one even realized there was a issue with this board... read the first few posts. some people were suprised to learn of any issue at all.
now that this post is out, I am sure every guy and his grandma is gonna start claiming they have a dead CPU from this board...
before yesterday, there was what, 3-5 people who even had a suspicion that this board may have killed thier CPU...
after today, I am sure there will be 1,000,000 claims about DFI boards killing there CPU's... cause thats how it goes.
2 people make enough noise, and then 1000 others get scared and flip out, when in reality, they have no need to worry... it's just when something works fine, no one says a thing... when something goes wrong, they are screaming thier head off from now until the day they die.
I am sure I'll be hearing "I remember when DFI experts were killing thousands of CPU's a day, and DFI was shoving money into thier trucks, and laughing all the way to the bank", in a few years, cause thats exactly what happens...
it gets blown out of proportion, and then becomes the folklore of overclocking.
if this was a huge issue, I would agree.
but this issue so far, so incredibly small, that the number of people who even think the board killed thier CPU could be counted on one hand...
with how fast newegg, monarch, ZZF and other places sell out of this board, don't you think this would be far more common, if it was a real serious issue, and not a small series of extremely rare occurances?
if tons of joe nobodys put his new CPU in and it was dead... then I can see a real issue to deal with.
but so far, the issue is soooo damn small, that it makes no sense to get everyone freaked out about it.
but thats exactly what I see happening so far.
a few people, are making everyone else freaked out...
this is the exact thing I hoped to avoid.
fear solves nothing.
irrational fears only make things worse.
cause like I said... the number of times this has happend so far, seems to be so damn small, that the chances of it happening to you, at the moment, seem completly far fetched to say the least, but a few people screaming bloody murder, are making everyone else think thier board is gonna blow up and kill them or something... irrational fears.
Pay people back?
first off... your overclocking.
the moment you started overclocking, your warranty is gone.
from AMD, and any MB maker and just about any company.
the moment you put your thermaltake big typhoon on there, your warranty was gone... the moment, you went into bios and took the HTT speed from 200 to 201 your warranty was gone...
every overclocker needs to remember that.
overclocking is done at your risk... we all chose to ignore those risks, to do what we do.
thats the simple nature of what we do.
because we are fortunate enough to have a small section of companies willing to deal with our BS, like OCZ and DFI, hell we should consider our self lucky that any company puts up with half the crap we do...
take OCZ... sometimes, I am amazed at the kinda stuff I see them deal with.
People RMA some VX4000 cause it won't do 270 cas 2-2-2-5... then you ask, well does it do 250... "yes, but I have to up the voltage to even get it stable at 260...."
"but does it do 250?"
"yep, but it use to do 268 completly stable at 3.5 volts, now it's only doing 262, at the same voltages"
"but does it do 250... cause thats what it is rated for... if it's doing 250, then it's still working 100% within it's specified rating"
"but it use to do 270 benchmarkable, now I can only do 265 if I am lucky... can I RMA it and get some new ram?"
if I ran OCZ believe me, I'd just laugh when I heard some of the crap I seen people ask of them.
I'd run the company into the ground, but I wouldn't let people walk all over me either, and thats what I see people doing alot of times...
how many times have you heard of someone sending a CPU back, cause it didn't overclock as well as they hoped?
technically, there was nothing wrong with the CPU... they took a chance on it, and it didn't live up to thier hopes, and then they blame it on the company and want a replacement?
doesn't that sound insane to you?
how many times you seen someone giving advice on how to fake an RMA on the forums, when they kill the hardware?
even when I mod those kinda posts instantly, I still see them from time to time... that person, kills the hardware themself... then sends it back, expecting someone to replace it.
thats no different then stealing.
as overclockers, we take a chance when we do something to our hardware, when we use non standard heatsinks, remove IHS's, push ram beyond it's voltage limit, uyse dry ice... LN2 and cascades... do volt mods, use a beta bios, flash our videocards with the wrong bios... mod drivers... we are always doing something so far out of the warranty, that it just amazes me how much we expect people to cover our ass.
so you took a CPU ran it at 4 ghz... and want me to replace it when it died?
no.. how do I know it wasnt just time for that CPU to die?
how can you expect me to replace it, when obviously pushed it so far beyond safe limits, that it was pretty much bound to a short life?
I am not saying, DFI is innocent in this.
but we as overclockers, aren't innocent in this either.
we took the chance, and for once, it bite some of back in the ass.
it happens.
now, if joe nobody, got his new DFI Expert, and put his new A64 3700 in there, not overclocking it, and the CPU died, then hell yeah I would say they should replace it.
but thats not what happend here at all.
the people so far I seen with Dead CPU's were all insanely overclocked, at some point with that/those CPUs.
just like me, they took a chance... and lost.
I am not gonna BS you here, what we do is barely if at all, something that can be coverd by a warranty.
to expect what we do to be coverd, is just insane.
theres only so much you can garauntee hardware to do.
a public statement?
for what?
have you read this post?
a handful of people had a CPU die... which can't even be verified that it was the board that did it...
yet thousands have this board, and have for weeks now, and haven't had a problem...
yet some people that don't even use the board, are making a huge noise about it, and making everyone else paranoid.
release a public statement, just to make even more ammo for these few people to go around saying "see I was right" then making thousands of more people freaked out about something, thats soooo small a risk... that your probably more likely to meet bigfoot at your local Kmart shopping for boots with his girlfriend, then you are to have this happen to you...
but cause some people are screaming bloody hell, theres thousands freaking out about it...
thats just stupid.
if the problem was larger then it is, I can see the need for drastic measures, but at the moment, the problem is so small that most of peoples reactions are highly uncalled for, and generally overreactionary cause they are being made paranoid by a few very noisey people...
when dealing with that kinda mindset, hell I wouldn't say a damn thing, and just fix it.
like I said earlier... it's too damn hard dealing with people when they get irrational.
thats what I see happening so far, to a few people here already.
I'd neuter angrygames @ dfistreet lol :banana:Quote:
Originally Posted by stryg
Anyway, good job Oscar/DFI getting the BIOS fix out. If the board killed any more CPU's there might have been some lawsuites or something.
Kuankk is right. We all need to calm down. (My post was rational). This board is sold out in the US and rare in UK/Canada. If this cpu death was so common we would be seeing hundreds of cases. Just a few cases and 2 of them from XS. Reason for that is guys here push their hardware to the absolute limits.
The mb is fine though plenty of guys using it including me :) No point of worrying so much. If you want to feel safer get an asus a8n32 sli or go back to sli-dr
anyways... to anyone that actually reads my posts.
sorry if I sound like an ass.
I just think alot people are way over reacting here, and some people seem to only be making things way worse then they really are, by adding fuel to the fire...
if I made anyone mad, sorry, but I said what I wanted to say... if you and I disagree, then we just have to agree to disagree :)
lol @ A_G .. , yea i can see why DFI would try to step away from starting some mass hysteriaQuote:
Originally Posted by NickS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
why would ya think that, most of the things you said can be backed up in a logical manner . i dont think we need any candy coating for anyone ATM
I saw this posting on circular re: this bios.
Setting item of the RAM DLL Speed had been gone.
The DRAM BANK Interleave that even with this BIOS does not become effective seems
It's from a translation of
http://translate.google.com/translat...003-38,GGLG:en