X1800XL results, '01 '03 & '05

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10-14-2005, 10:09 PM
Vapor

Alright, the fact it's international eliminates the fact that its a problem being set to Spanish (there have honestly been a few times when I don't have something because I'm set to International Spanish [yes, English is my first language and I don't ever use Spanish on my computer but I'm used to the way accents/punction marks are used in the typeset]).

Anyway, getting a hold of him or RickCain should work....it's definitely too big to send through email so I recommend some file hosting like yousendit or something like that.

Hope this works out for you man....I'd like to see your review when it's up, too :D

Also, if you have the time when you run it again and you have the ATi Tool B9, can you check temps and do the cooling mod as detailed for the 7800GTX here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=69513 thanks man! :up:
10-15-2005, 08:10 PM
SPQQKY

I don't think the negative response is to point at G H Z's efforts, and I for one can say I am sorry if it appeared that way. My point is the card isn't as impressive as I think we had all hoped. Maybe a little frustration towards ATi for a bit of the ol' "too little too late".
Again, my apologies.
10-17-2005, 11:21 AM
***Deimos***

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

Once Arcting Cooling Releases their ATI Silencer, with your cpu,

Expect 40k on air FOR 24/7 USE !! :slobber:

Perkam

Have you seen the coolers on the new ATI lineup... its not like "back-then" when you replaced a 30-40g black aluminum flimsy piece on your 9700pro with something hefty with lots of ribs and a big fan. The X1800XL and X1800XT ALREADY have big heavy coolers. I think Artic Cooling will have to adapt something like the CNPS7700CU for these new video cards... there's just seems to be no limit to how hot they can get. Ofcourse most wonder why, when CPU like A64 stay so relatively cool or similar 90nm.... ->300+ million transistors, and unlike A64 where about half are cache that rarely is used, nearly all on GPU work concurrently.. and probably many "hot-spots"... 90nm just increased power/heat density problems.

driver update to "increase performance"... not nearly as much as you imagine or assume.. how much has 7800 performance increased with drivers over last 4 months? or 6800 for that matter... sure they fix a lot of game-specific glitch issues, but unless there was a game-bug, performance stays about the same +/- 1%.
10-17-2005, 12:22 PM
Gnome

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

Have you seen the coolers on the new ATI lineup... its not like "back-then" when you replaced a 30-40g black aluminum flimsy piece on your 9700pro with something hefty with lots of ribs and a big fan. The X1800XL and X1800XT ALREADY have big heavy coolers. I think Artic Cooling will have to adapt something like the CNPS7700CU for these new video cards... there's just seems to be no limit to how hot they can get. Ofcourse most wonder why, when CPU like A64 stay so relatively cool or similar 90nm.... ->300+ million transistors, and unlike A64 where about half are cache that rarely is used, nearly all on GPU work concurrently.. and probably many "hot-spots"... 90nm just increased power/heat density problems.

driver update to "increase performance"... not nearly as much as you imagine or assume.. how much has 7800 performance increased with drivers over last 4 months? or 6800 for that matter... sure they fix a lot of game-specific glitch issues, but unless there was a game-bug, performance stays about the same +/- 1%.

check the first releases when the cards just came out, there isnt even a final version for x1k family...
10-17-2005, 12:57 PM
afireinside

Scores are sub par at best. Someone needs to figure out how to clock it higher. It can't be to hard to change, but what do I know? Maybe the card will suck less if it can clock WAYYYYY higher but right now its very disapointing compared to 7800gtx for all the time we had to wait.
10-17-2005, 03:33 PM
G H Z

Some people are forgetting that this is an XL not an XT. It's not meant to compete with the GTX. I agree it's not very impressive at these clocks but we don't know if retail cards can match what Sampsa did with his XL until we have an OC Utility that works. It's too early to say whether this card is a bust or not.
10-17-2005, 04:11 PM
Charles Wirth

Yes retail cards can match

I dont have my XL core fully up to speed but the memory screams far beyond stock. 40% + increase without mods.

Methinks the XL and XT cores are the same just set at diff voltages and speeds except for the XT's faster memory.

I dont quite undestand leaving so much headroom for oc on the XL. I am not complaining. It must be a bold new marketing stratagy.
10-17-2005, 04:14 PM
G H Z

Fugger do you have Winclk? Any luck with CF on the P5WD2?
10-17-2005, 04:29 PM
Gnome

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUGGER

I dont quite undestand leaving so much headroom for oc on the XL. I am not complaining. It must be a bold new marketing stratagy.

which consists in holding your own core back for default users... if yeilds are good ATI should consider a core clock boost to the x1800xl... their product positioning is relatively bad...
10-17-2005, 04:54 PM
Charles Wirth

Yes I have the OC util.

I need to try a CF cable with my cards, to my understanding I will not be able to do AFR but I will be able to do super tiling with that config.
10-17-2005, 10:06 PM
mR Yellow

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

Have you seen the coolers on the new ATI lineup... its not like "back-then" when you replaced a 30-40g black aluminum flimsy piece on your 9700pro with something hefty with lots of ribs and a big fan. The X1800XL and X1800XT ALREADY have big heavy coolers. I think Artic Cooling will have to adapt something like the CNPS7700CU for these new video cards... there's just seems to be no limit to how hot they can get. Ofcourse most wonder why, when CPU like A64 stay so relatively cool or similar 90nm.... ->300+ million transistors, and unlike A64 where about half are cache that rarely is used, nearly all on GPU work concurrently.. and probably many "hot-spots"... 90nm just increased power/heat density problems.

driver update to "increase performance"... not nearly as much as you imagine or assume.. how much has 7800 performance increased with drivers over last 4 months? or 6800 for that matter... sure they fix a lot of game-specific glitch issues, but unless there was a game-bug, performance stays about the same +/- 1%.

I don't agree with u. The x800pro whipped the 6800Ultra in the early days.
Now, along with nVidia driver updates, the 6800 Ultra beats the x800pro easy.

Expect a big performance increase form ATi with future drivers as these new GPU's are very programmable ;)
10-17-2005, 10:30 PM
G H Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUGGER

Yes I have the OC util.

I need to try a CF cable with my cards, to my understanding I will not be able to do AFR but I will be able to do super tiling with that config.

What you need to do Fugger is force a new Device ID on one of the cards so the CF software is tricked into thinking one of the regular XL's is a master. No need for the Interconnect cable, at least thats the way HKPC did it.
10-18-2005, 12:06 AM
Charles Wirth

GHZ they both have differnt ID based on slot they are installed on.

With one card "crossfire" does not show up on the menu.

I can program, I just need to know what to write.
10-18-2005, 12:29 AM
G H Z

Hmm, I don't know exactly. Have a look at this article page 2 in particular, babelfish is the best. Also notice they got CF working on X700 & X300 which has no Master cards at all. Thats what made me think it was only a Device ID.

Notice no Interlink cable is used, and they mention forcing a Master Device ID on one of the cards. It's either that or they flashed a Master BIOS, I'm not 100% sure. I'll bet W1zzard could help us out on this, I'll try him tomorrow.
10-19-2005, 10:44 AM
***Deimos***

Quote:

Originally Posted by mR Yellow

I don't agree with u. The x800pro whipped the 6800Ultra in the early days.
Now, along with nVidia driver updates, the 6800 Ultra beats the x800pro easy.

Expect a big performance increase form ATi with future drivers as these new GPU's are very programmable ;)

I dont ever recall x800pro "whipping" anything... if you are refering to Far Cry, I hope you understand that GAME update to v1.3 is not a "driver update"... hence all comparisons of such game scores would be invalid.

why would you be so sure?

by the admission that there will be "big" performance increases, that means that ATI was incompetent when writing the orginal driver.. would you please concur that is indeed what you are saying.
10-19-2005, 02:05 PM
Gnome

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

by the admission that there will be "big" performance increases, that means that ATI was incompetent when writing the orginal driver..

when you release a product you are not expected to have everything tweaked out and polished, when the r300 was released it didn't even support DX 9.0 !!!
10-19-2005, 02:10 PM
Shadowmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnome

which consists in holding your own core back for default users... if yeilds are good ATI should consider a core clock boost to the x1800xl... their product positioning is relatively bad...

You know how "stock speed" for 7800GTX is almost 490mhz now? ;)

Same reasoning, let the MFGs do the hard work!
10-19-2005, 11:57 PM
mR Yellow

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

I dont ever recall x800pro "whipping" anything... if you are refering to Far Cry, I hope you understand that GAME update to v1.3 is not a "driver update"... hence all comparisons of such game scores would be invalid.

why would you be so sure?

by the admission that there will be "big" performance increases, that means that ATI was incompetent when writing the orginal driver.. would you please concur that is indeed what you are saying.

Deimos, i don't have the link. But initially the 6800 driver didn't perform that well. Im talking about when it launched. Over time the 6x00 series drivers have improved. The 7800 is basicly the same architecture as the 6800, just tweaked slightly. Also 7800 series drivers have matured.

The x1800 on the other hand is a total new architecture. So driver improvement will be seen.
10-20-2005, 12:58 AM
G H Z

Did some more testing in '01 for you guys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...y/897cee18.jpg

Couple of things that are apparent, this new gen has lost some efficiency in a few tests with '01. This CPU speed gives very close to 200 FPS on X850 for me. However have a look at Nature and DH at these clocks. Running 615/550 with Control Center & ATI Tool Nature was 300Fps.

Big thanks to W1zzard for ATI Tool beta.
10-20-2005, 04:31 AM
metro.cl

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuanFlaiter

I´m using some drivers downloaded from ATI`s FTP (private for press)

I have to bench this card, and I´m not supposed to (I´m in charge of benching Nvidia´s products and processors, the guy who benches ATI cards is on vacations and probably flying to Cuba)

Maybe you can help me, this is what CCC says about the drivers. But I have no options of overdrive.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4827/aticcc8vr.jpg

If I don´t overclock this bastard readers will be very upset :(

i might be able to help, i'll prepare a hdd just for 3dmark01 benching, see you on saturday :D
10-20-2005, 05:16 AM
cantankerous

Quote:

Originally Posted by G H Z

Did some more testing in '01 for you guys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...y/897cee18.jpg

Couple of things that are apparent, this new gen has lost some efficiency in a few tests with '01. This CPU speed gives very close to 200 FPS on X850 for me. However have a look at Nature and DH at these clocks. Running 615/550 with Control Center & ATI Tool Nature was 300Fps.

Big thanks to W1zzard for ATI Tool beta.

Thanks for the post of your findings. I take it you had no issues overclocking the XL chip once you applied the right voltages and a tool other than CCC? What cooling did you use and did you notice what temps were at? I am really wanting an XL but all this talk of 'sofground' issue made me worry I would get a dodgy clocker and be stuck with it. I am hoping with proper cooling and voltages we can all hit XT/+ speeds.
10-20-2005, 10:23 AM
G H Z

This was done on a stock card with 1.15v (1.05v stock) on core, 100% fan speed. ATI Tool cannot set memory clocks yet.
10-20-2005, 10:50 AM
sang

GHZ

could u make a 2k1 run with this x1800xl and compare it with a similar cpu/X8*00XT speed? I really want to see the diference at the same clocks between last 2 generation of ati cards.
Thanks.
10-20-2005, 03:30 PM
turtle

Very nice GHZ, your testing of your XL is surely appreciated. :)

Just curious, have you tested the max gpu voltage you can pump through the xl with the stock HSF?

It seems to me 700mhz should take about 1.35v according to yours and other XL/XT results. Obviously this might be a bit much for the subpar stock HSF on the XL as they already seem to run warm, but the core may take it with some better cooling.

I'm also curious how much voltage the 1.4ns memory can take under regular (not -0) cooling, and the frequency they can reach. Perhaps Fugger (or someone with ATi's overclocking tool) can give some insight on that. :)

Here's thanking W1zzard for his work as well, and good luck on getting mem overclocking to work with ATi tool. With voltage "adjustments" for gpu/mem and a working overclocking utility, these XL's may just be a viable option yet. 700+/1400+ with just an aftermarket cooler would be great, and seemingly possible. :woot:
10-20-2005, 03:33 PM
cantankerous

I agree and am waiting for proven results as I want an XL. Cheaper and available now, can't complain with that. I hope an aftermarket cooler comes quick. Something at least as good as the stock XT cooler, preferably something from Arctic Silencer. I would love to get 700/700 and would be quite content on that with good thermal paste, new hsf and of course a small voltage bump. Would like to keep temps low to avoid this card prematurely dying.

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