hmmm im still waiting, I thought Its worth waiting rather than going straight to a BIX 2...well..the pa's are going to be the best rads out right ?
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hmmm im still waiting, I thought Its worth waiting rather than going straight to a BIX 2...well..the pa's are going to be the best rads out right ?
From what I read regarding them they should be very good. Should beat out the rads now out from HWLabs & Thermochill and others except possibly the new Swifty 120.2. But best?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemmingzappa
Need to wait and see how they compare to the next gen HWLabs rads, Swifty's new 120.2 & some of the larger cores before we can know that.
Although they'll beat the cores for sure where noise is the issue, not a likely thing on the cooling side when compared to cores like a Weaponized Monster core & shrouds. Really the new PA 120.3 will be the one to compare to the Monster core though.
Should be VERY interesting to see the comparison of the new Swifty 120.2 designed by Bill Adams vs PA120.2 designed by Cathar & Marci vs HWLabs next gen 120.2 rads. I look forward to seeing which of them is the king of cool.....
Though I'll prolly buy the 120.3 that performs best in cooling. If they can come close to the Monster core, or beat it, I'll be happy to have the lower nosie.
The only radiators I have not comparitive information on the PA120 series against is the "Next-Gen" HWLabs radiators, purely because they don't exist. Have directly tested the Swiftech rads.
Until HWLabs release their next-gen rads, the "performance crown" for fan powers up to 110cfm will rest firmly in the UK.
Have spent some money upgrading my measurement testbed here though and will re-assess as time permits, but am fairly confident in my existing measurements.
Cathar, if you dont mind my asking, how do the swifty's compare to the PA series with low flow fans such as the nexus' (e.g. 90% of the performance, 50% etc)? I understand that the PA's are the best and i appreciate your contributions to water cooling but the PA series is gonna be expensive in the US. Right now a thermochill 120.2 is ~$100 while a swifty is ~$40. Thats a pretty big jump in price for what I'm guessing is probably not an enormous jump in performance. I have no issue with supporting whoever produces the best gear but when that gear is over twice as much and the closest gear performs 90% as good im gonna go with the less expensive kit. Just wondering about this, especially since im gonna build an external rad box soon with two 120.2 style cores.
Have you tested vs a Weapon Monster core & shourd, or do you refer just to the Swifty 120.2 & present HWLabs rads? If you have tested a Monster Core, what was the performance differance between teh PA120.3 & the Monster core?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
I'd also like to know how well you found the Swifty 120.2 to perform, perhaps you could offer a comparison to the present 120.2 Thermochill or BIX 120.2?
I also read a post by Marci @ Pro Cooling a bit ago, seems there is a further problem with alinement of part of the tanks produced, every 11th one does not line up right.
Hope this does not take long for him to figure out, has to get a bit under ones skin after a bit. I know It'd be driving me crazy about now......LOL, but that might not take as long with me....could in fact be a rather short trip! :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemist
I agree, price is definetly a factor for me.
First off, from a comparitive point of view, I heavily focus on performance per opening area per fannage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
Have not tested against a Monster Core, and that's not really my interest. I have enough information from various sources comparing the fin aspect ratios and radiator style of the Monster Core to other PC radiators, and the "heater-core" style design does stack up very favorably, which on an equal facial area basis, a "heater-core" design that the Monster-Core radiators use is breathing right down the neck of the better PC radiators (PA120 excluded). The differences between a "heater-core" design and the better existing PC radiators are within a few percent.
The Monster Core is a huge 2 x 2 fanned thing. I already said above that it'll perform better than a PA120.3, and I know that without even having to test it based upon fairly obvious extrapolation of performance per unit area, and that it is even larger than 24x24cm in facial area. Given the characteristics of the "heater-core" style design, and that it has an extra fan, it's really an apples to oranges comparison. Does something with close to 50% more facial surface area and 33% more fannage perform better than something else? Well sure it will.
Depends on the fannage. In the 50-100cfm range there's not a lot of difference between the Swifty QP's, the BIP's and the DTek Pro 120 (which is effectively a cut-down "heater-core" of the Weapon Core style). The QP's hold the lead, but by a small margin (no more than 2%). The older HE120's come good above 100cfm, or when coupled with push-pull fans, but at lesser single-fan powers they fall behind by an increasing amount as fan power is lessened, being up to 20% behind the thin/low-fpi cores when getting down to 20-30cfm fannage levels. The HE120's and the BIX's represent yester-year thinking on fan powers, and IMO both need to be retired.Quote:
I'd also like to know how well you found the Swifty 120.2 to perform, perhaps you could offer a comparison to the present 120.2 Thermochill or BIX 120.2?
Still though, if you're willing to put fans in push-pull and run them at fairly high speeds (>80cfm effectively) the old HE120 series do come very good and offer unmatched cooling performance within the 120.x form-factor. The newer PA120's will run with the HE120's up to 100cfm in push-pull (roughly speaking) and above that the HE120's will run away with the show. It's a lot of noise though.
A large part of the problem with designing radiators is picking a point to optimise around. As I stated above, for me and the larger market I believe that to be 120.1, 160.1, or 120.2, with 120.3 being an extension of the 120.2 optimisation level. If you're interested in highest end performance, then space can't be a concern and so go out and build yourself a radiator box and stick a car radiator into it.
Price is always an important factor. Worth of a performance increase is up to an end-user. I can't make that value judgement for anyone else but myself. Thermochill are hampered by "higher than third world" production costs, and so are always going to be more expensive. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmpy224
In the end, it's down to priorities. In a 120.x form factor the PA120's kick butt with Nexus style fan powers and certainly offering noticably lower water temperatures to anyone who cares to measure correctly. Up to 4C better water temps depending on heat load when comparing a HE120.1 to a PA120.1.
well put cathar
thank you
Hrm, I would deff be interested in a pa160.2, too bad they don't sell those. Forget that piddly small junk. That would prob be the best 2x120 rad on the market IMO.
PA120.3 WILL be available from Monday 10th October
PA120.2 & PA120.1 will be available from Thursday 13th October
Your patience has been appreciated... :)
thanks marci for the update. i just checked the thermochill site and was looking over the info there as well.
once again
thanks
any pics yet?
Hey Marci, glad to hear the tank issue was easy delt with!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marci
I'm looking forward to seeing some comparsions of them with other rads.
Cathar,
Thanks for your responses in posts #33 & 34, a clearer picture.
:toast:
A PA120.3 would be about the same performance as a PA160.2, and about the same size too. There's no real point making a PA160.2, you'd just get a PA120.3 instead, and a PA120.3 would be easier to fit into cases like a CM Stacker or whatever within the drive bay cage.Quote:
Originally Posted by fareastgq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathar
so the PA120.3 is a good match for the CM stacker? good thats the case i got and i was hoping it would fit right in it
any chance on dimensions of the PA120.2?
A 120x3 setup would use up, at minimum, 9 of the front bays. Each 120mm uses 3 bays. Add on the top and bottom tanks, and you're looking at using up nearly all of the drive bays.
ouch need 1 drive bay for dvd recorder and 1 one the power switch. can it lay in the bottom of the case?
best case for watercooling is either the ufo cases, PC7077, PC75, V1000 series or V2000 series
UFOs cost a pieload though ;)
any doublewidth > all (except a quad-width... hehehehehehe)
indeed they do cost a pieload... and a boatload.. possibly a planeload too..
HE/PA120.3 can either be mounted across the top or across the base in the Stacker cases.
thanks again marci