Overtaking DPC!

Ive said it before in a large organisation a dump is quite easy to achieve if you have admin over a large number of machines, specially if you are running multipul subnets on your firewall. You just open up the ports for the relevant subnets when those machines are ready to dump, then they will start to dump on the next update. Once done close and open up the next subnet, lets say that the marketing,accounts and HR are all on different subnets, so rather than swamp bandwith on some uploads (this may showup on logs if your not meant to be doing so etc) certain subnets are opened one at a time. I said this in the last thread.

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Originally Posted by thewildblue

Ive said it before in a large organisation a dump is quite easy to achieve if you have admin over a large number of machines, specially if you are running multipul subnets on your firewall. You just open up the ports for the relevant subnets when those machines are ready to dump, then they will start to dump on the next update. Once done close and open up the next subnet, lets say that the marketing,accounts and HR are all on different subnets, so rather than swamp bandwith on some uploads (this may showup on logs if your not meant to be doing so etc) certain subnets are opened one at a time. I said this in the last thread.

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Yeah its certainily possible that they are actually doing this, but output is too erratic. It would be too much effort to have output like this. Are you telling me this guy has probably 100+ machines at home ? No and they admitted its work machines its just very improbable that their output would be so perfectly skewed. It doesnt sound like this guy has the permission to have these on the machines .... secondily how many admins would risk their job for d2ol?

The way you eplianed their output through firewall blocks is also BS. Since output would still be erratic machines still dump in their designated 6 hour upload not right away ...... so you are trying to tell me he turns off firewall then resets them all dozens of machines? Then 9 hours later goes back does the same thing! Then a few hours does it again!

Do you know how much work that must be to have services on hundreds of computers? Their explanation is obviousily BS ..... perhaps they are legitimately doing it, but not from their explanation. Thanks Blue for one more possible way they could do this and just proves my point that it would be way too much effort to get a concentrated output of candidates that just happens to be 15k or 5K more than they did on ordinary hour.

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Originally Posted by UCmajewski

Yeah its certainily possible that they are actually doing this, but output is too erratic. It would be too much effort to have output like this. Are you telling me this guy has probably 100+ machines at home ? No and they admitted its work machines its just very improbable that their output would be so perfectly skewed. It doesnt sound like this guy has the permission to have these on the machines .... secondily how many admins would risk their job for d2ol?

The way you eplianed their output through firewall blocks is also BS. Since output would still be erratic machines still dump in their designated 6 hour upload not right away ...... so you are trying to tell me he turns off firewall then resets them all dozens of machines? Then 9 hours later goes back does the same thing! Then a few hours does it again!

Do you know how much work that must be to have services on hundreds of computers? Their explanation is obviousily BS ..... perhaps they are legitimately doing it, but not from their explanation. Thanks Blue for one more possible way they could do this and just proves my point that it would be way too much effort to get a concentrated output of candidates that just happens to be 15k or 5K more than they did on ordinary hour.

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Did you even read my post? It is really simple to set the 6 houres interval between the dumps to several minuten. Please, before you start whining it is not possible to do those dumps, do some research yourself. It Ã:banana:s possible and it isn't difficult. I'm not an sys-admin, so did not even thought of things like subnets to make it even better to regulate, but I do can think of multiple ways to do massive dumps. With a tiny bit of network experience and simply taking a look at de D2OL config files you should be able to come up with things like this yourself.

Probably cheating would be more of a pain in the ass to do with these large number then just dumping large quantities with large numbers of machines on a professional network.

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Originally Posted by Syzzer

Did you even read my post? It is really simple to set the 6 houres interval between the dumps to several minuten. Please, before you start whining it is not possible to do those dumps, do some research yourself. It Ã:banana:s possible and it isn't difficult. I'm not an sys-admin, so did not even thought of things like subnets to make it even better to regulate, but I do can think of multiple ways to do massive dumps. With a tiny bit of network experience and simply taking a look at de D2OL config files you should be able to come up with things like this yourself.

Probably cheating would be more of a pain in the ass to do with these large number then just dumping large quantities with large numbers of machines on a professional network.

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Wow its like talking to a wall here ...... Yeah you can change intervals etc......... and you can do pretty much anything with d2ol i've admitted to that and yes I have had experience with d2ol per team sig if you need to take a look.......... but wow still doesnt explain how this guy is producing 15,000 twice a day then a 5,000 dump then the next day its the same thing. WOW!

Also would've it been the smart thing to simply buffer by not adding node but leave it unassigned..... this way you cant loose canidates? Lets see if these were all not his machines according to his story why not do this? Then he could simply add the node when he felt like it (not on one of his 3 lunch breaks)! This is how I buffer the smart safe way. But they didnt add nodes which means they manually updated. Manually updated these supposed work computers 3 times in one day ?

oh I serverly doubt members of team gaol have not been in their d2ol config files. :stick:

Dont respond back saying but you can firewall this ...... change this in config file........ I mean oh look there goes the entire point of the post.... IM NOT SAYING THEY CANT DO IT..... IM SAYING IT LOOKS LIKE THEY RE COPIED RESULTS ! Why does it look like the re copied results ? READ MY POSTS !

Looks like I hit the community chest and whats this 100 dollar bank error in my favor! Sweet !

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Originally Posted by UCmajewski

Wow its like talking to a wall here ...... Yeah you can change intervals etc......... and you can do pretty much anything with d2ol i've admitted to that and yes I have had experience with d2ol per team sig if you need to take a look.......... but wow still doesnt explain how this guy is producing 15,000 twice a day then a 5,000 dump then the next day its the same thing. WOW!

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Big company, large numbers of machines, large numbers of candidates. Sounds familiar?

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Also would've it been the smart thing to simply buffer by not adding node but leave it unassigned..... this way you cant loose canidates? Lets see if these were all not his machines according to his story why not do this? Then he could simply add the node when he felt like it (not on one of his 3 lunch breaks)! This is how I buffer the smart safe way. But they didnt add nodes which means they manually updated. Manually updated these supposed work computers 3 times in one day ?

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Thats their choice. It would though be more difficult, because you have te give every PC an new NodeID when you want to start a new flush.

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oh I serverly doubt members of team gaol have not been in their d2ol config files. :stick:

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Does not make then cheaters, does it?

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Dont respond back saying but you can firewall this ...... change this in config file........ I mean oh look there goes the entire point of the post.... IM NOT SAYING THEY CANT DO IT..... IM SAYING IT LOOKS LIKE THEY RE COPIED RESULTS ! Why does it look like the re copied results ? READ MY POSTS !

Looks like I hit the community chest and whats this 100 dollar bank error in my favor! Sweet !

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Then why did you keep on screaming they must have cheated because of this flushing patterns? Hell, all you've got left to do is say you think their cheating because they produce big numbers. You can think what you want, just don't start screaming people are cheating when they seem to be able to offer some competition.

I've totally had it with this discussion. I came here just to point out you guys could not take for granted Team_Gaol had no reserves because some stats-poster said he thought so. I came here te prevent people like you from screaming gaol would be cheating when they would do a dump in the next month or so 'because their buffers were already empty'.

You think their cheating? Thats your choice. This was not meant to be a discussion whether they are cheating or not. I'm not with them so I can't tell. I tried to point out you were jumping to conclusions way to early. Since you just proved me right on those points, for me the discussion is over.

Crunch on.

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The third way is like the first one, but allows you to save up after you finished 2,000 Candidates (I haven't had the chance to test this myself yet, so beware when trying this). In your SengentD2OL\D2OL\res folder, you'll find a file called resultQueue.dat, rename this to something like resultQueue1.dat after you've stopped the client. When you restart the client, set it back to online, to allow it to download more Candidates, of course after it finished downloading, set the client back to offline. This way you can save up an unlimited amount of work.

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http://www.teamgaol.com/TGFAQ.htm#MF

Doesn't take too much imagination to see how this can be abused.

About our FAQ: Our FAQ has never contained a way to cheat and will never contain a way to do this. Whoever is claiming there used to be a 4th way to save up Cands or a 4th step, is lying. The FAQ hasn't been edited since 24th of december last year, you can find some proof of this here and here (original file on previous server). Furthermore, the way to save up Cands that you're talking about clearly warns people about using this way of saving up Cands because we hadn't been able to test it when the FAQ was written. Also someone that doesn't know how to cheat and wants to find out how, won't find the information he needs in our FAQ, only if you already know how to cheat you're able to tell that "3 out of 4 steps to cheat" are present in our FAQ.

About calling us "SICKOS": This is just a plain insult to our whole team, you're pointing a finger at the whole of Team Gäöl over one single member (out of 21, actually more because Robert T is a sub-team from TG) who might POSSIBLY be cheating, of which you don't have any proof (and if you do have proof, I like to see it, because just like you, we do not tolerate cheating in any way).

About our output: Of course we (including myself) had our own doubts about the output of this member, so we have asked him to provide us with information about what kind of CPU power he has access to: He works for a large company (known by me, as well as other leaders of TG) that has over 200 PCs running every day (I've added a little info on this on our specs page), more info can be found in the GoT D2OL DPCH of July 17th (dutch), info which 'conveniently' has not been translated back to this forum by your Belgium member (because he has his mind made up about us anyway).

Also I like to thank you all for trying to destroy something we of TG have been working hard for for almost 3 years now, this only out of jealousy and fear that you might not pass DPC as soon as you would have hoped to. Maybe you should think first before making such a claim and contact the people in question and ask for an explanation.

On the other hand, if you ever find proof that one of our members is cheating, I would like to ask you to provide me (my e-mail should be in my profile) with this info so we can take the necessary actions against this member. We will at least remove that person from our stats to discourage further cheating, followed by an e-mail to the D2OL staff, requesting to remove the nodeID(s) in question (and possibly other actions to get the Cands to be removed from the team total, if possible).

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Ronald - Team Leader of Team Gäöl
Christian - Co-Leader of Team Gäöl

Ddan, I will say this only once, after this the cheating matter is over for all I care. I won't even care no more if someone does it right infront of my face.

First off, the info was NOT conventiently left aside from the GoT forum. (I still am a member there and daily visit it) If ytou search the competition section of Xs you'll see I've had a LOT of computer troubles teh last 2-3 days with my entire HDD corrupted (turned out to be a MBR gone bonkers.... unaible to recover -- > entire reinstall )
Then problems with my PSU which wasn't holding up under the weather we'd been getting here in belgium (and the netherlands for that. You got the weather also!)

while I was back on line for a partion via my mom's computer, she also needs that comp to work on for her work. So out of my normal say 4 hours a day I spenth behind my comp I only had half an hour a day of computertime....


Now if you want me to translate something that the people here can read, GLADLY

tell me what it say's there thats directly relevant to this discussion and I'll gladly translate it. i'll even mail it to you so you can check if I have translated it well enough and without Bias.
About the calling of "sicko" Yes it's a direct accusation, now read whats on GoT. I said it is repulsive to say the least if one would be cheating, thats playing with people's lives/health. Does that seem normal to you? I may have jumped the gun and this IS just a program, but what they where suspected (and still are suspected of by people here and on your own team (DPC)) of is just foul and in my eyes repulsive. Now thats that for the sicko part for me. I jumped the gun and called you sickos, I'm sorry.

Secondly
What did we destroy? Really, give me proof of what we destroyed? I'm deadserius, tell me what we have destroyed? Don't worry we aren't jealous and we don't fear not passing you as soon as we want. Why? Our output is bigger then yours anyway and even if it takes a year or more to overtake you, we will. So we don't care if it takes longer, as long as we overtake you. Heck even if all of a sudden you guys pull away at a lightning speed, cudos to you, we like competition.
Btw we first of had a thread which question your team, then we had Syzzer or something come in here (as a DPC person) and talk some. Now he himselve said people of DPC distrust his output. But We will see soon enough won't we. Because as said on GoT once we get close he can't pull it off to use a cheat constantly because that would stand out to much. So don't worry we have time to see.

Kind regards,
Entity_razer Both Belgian XS Fanboy as Biased Translator as Destroyer of ..... well I guess something we destroyed......

IMO, this thread needs locked, moved or deleted as it not longer serves any useful purpose. There is already a thread regarding team gaol. This one is way off topic.

yhea, we need a mod in here....

either clean this thread up or lock/move/delete it

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Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

...

First off, the info was NOT conventiently left aside from the GoT forum. (I still am a member there and daily visit it) If ytou search the competition section of Xs you'll see I've had a LOT of computer troubles teh last 2-3 days with my entire HDD corrupted (turned out to be a MBR gone bonkers.... unaible to recover -- > entire reinstall )
Then problems with my PSU which wasn't holding up under the weather we'd been getting here in belgium (and the netherlands for that. You got the weather also!)

while I was back on line for a partion via my mom's computer, she also needs that comp to work on for her work. So out of my normal say 4 hours a day I spenth behind my comp I only had half an hour a day of computertime....

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Looking at your posts in this thread from the last 3 days you have had no problem whatsoever making long posts about how we are apparantly cheating. So not being able to be online much is really a piss poor excuse.

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Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

Now if you want me to translate something that the people here can read, GLADLY

tell me what it say's there thats directly relevant to this discussion and I'll gladly translate it. i'll even mail it to you so you can check if I have translated it well enough and without Bias.

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This is what I'm referring to in the link to the DPCH, the comments posted in there by Christian (Mr. Ceejay) and me, which I've already translated (in short) in my previous post.

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Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

About the calling of "sicko" Yes it's a direct accusation, now read whats on GoT. I said it is repulsive to say the least if one would be cheating, thats playing with people's lives/health. Does that seem normal to you? I may have jumped the gun and this IS just a program, but what they where suspected (and still are suspected of by people here and on your own team (DPC)) of is just foul and in my eyes repulsive. Now thats that for the sicko part for me. I jumped the gun and called you sickos, I'm sorry.

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I couldn't agree with you more it is sick to mess with results from projects like D2OL, my main problem with this remark was that you have no proof that anyone on our team is cheating.

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Originally Posted by Entity_Razer

Secondly
What did we destroy? Really, give me proof of what we destroyed? I'm deadserius, tell me what we have destroyed? Don't worry we aren't jealous and we don't fear not passing you as soon as we want. Why? Our output is bigger then yours anyway and even if it takes a year or more to overtake you, we will. So we don't care if it takes longer, as long as we overtake you. Heck even if all of a sudden you guys pull away at a lightning speed, cudos to you, we like competition.
Btw we first of had a thread which question your team, then we had Syzzer or something come in here (as a DPC person) and talk some. Now he himselve said people of DPC distrust his output. But We will see soon enough won't we. Because as said on GoT once we get close he can't pull it off to use a cheat constantly because that would stand out to much. So don't worry we have time to see.

Kind regards,
Entity_razer Both Belgian XS Fanboy as Biased Translator as Destroyer of ..... well I guess something we destroyed......

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Our reputation as a sub-team of DPC, this isn't something that people will just forget about, whoever has seen this discussion will always remember the 'cheating'. The reason we joined this project, as well as Distributed Folding project prior to this project, was to use our CPU cycles for something good, to help finding cures for diseases, this is not how people will see us now.

By the way, why do we suddenly need a moderator in this forum, because we finally posted here and showed our point of view (which contains far more information and proof than your simple accusations)? I picked up this discussion here because this is where you started this again, so if this isn't the right place to do discuss this, I suggest we continue by e-mail if you have anything else you would like to get off your chest.

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Originally Posted by DDan

By the way, why do we suddenly need a moderator in this forum, because we finally posted here and showed our point of view (which contains far more information and proof than your simple accusations)? I picked up this discussion here because this is where you started this again, so if this isn't the right place to do discuss this, I suggest we continue by e-mail if you have anything else you would like to get off your chest.

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Your point of view has been expressed. As I stated before, this thread is not the place for this discussion as there is already a thread pertaining to this subject matter.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=65290

No need to junk up another thread with this argument. This is directed at everyone, not just you.

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I picked up this discussion here because this is where you started this again, so if this isn't the right place to do discuss this, I suggest we continue by e-mail if you have anything else you would like to get off your chest.

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Careful with the word "you". YOU might want to go have a look at who posted what, again.

PM me your e-mail if you want.... If there's anything else on your chest, you can find my mail in your message box.

And as shmaa said, be carefull of who you call "you".

I'm not gonna try and deflect blame for what I said, but I did not start/bring up this idea. True after looking into some of the dumps which did seem weird (just weirdly done, after reading the original starters explenation) and the fact that people here started about a cheat beeing on your site + The fact that I found out what the cheat actually was (logical thinking.....)
I DID react emotionally/ intense. Why? My grandfather has just been diagnosed with lungcancer so to me,just the idea of someone cheating and disregarding the value of a drug/cure is revolting, repulsive and just makes me SICK.

And your rep.... True I must admit we will have dented your team's reputation... But people easely forget.. something you don't seem to remember...


IF say me is foudn guilty of cheating today , but the day after tomorrow Xs takes Nr1 place despite me being banned and cands deleted, what will people remember? the fact that someone of Xs cheated, or that Xs is Nr1? (or in your case DPC)

And this is NOT the place where the discussion began :) Search for it.

+ I just typed this thing in about 3 minuts. I can type pretty fast and even faster when my heart's in it. So making long posts say's nothing. Watch how far spread out they are?
On post at DPC, 10 mminuts later one here, then nothing for a few hours.....

Check your PM for my mail adres, If you want it that is.......

Wow okay this is over no matter what happens with Team_Gaol or Robert T. you arent going to hold us forever. IM sorry the proof is in their dumps ..... I remember ICA_Cows doing a huge dump a few months back ..... it took them all day to get in their massive numbers of canidates around 200K if I do remember. No dump was on the hour was exactly the same ..... and all day there was up load of canidates. Such is the out put of all massive producers ! Our DDtung does 10K a day reliably ! Does he do 1,000 then all the sudden one update does 9,000 no ..... Its spread out ... all day. Robert T. followed a precise pattern of 2 15,000 dumps one hour twice a day and then 5,000 another hour....... the whole week this was the pattern ! Even with 200 buffered machines this would be hard to do and why the pattern?

Other Teams have reached out to me via private messages agreeing with me! The one thing we do agree with is why isnt gaol / robert T. crunching FAD? The project DPC is currently "stampeding" ! We all agree its because you can't cheat in FAD, but you can in D2ol.

Im sorry, but I think you guys should investigat Gaol since we would call out our own team members if output look so strange like this. It does look fishy you obviousily admit that..... I sincerly hope DPC has the class and integrity to investigate Robert T.

in the words of one mr robert flynn from machine head:

Charge me, charge you
charge us, charge through
Amplify, terrify
supercharger electrifies

very much sums up what we have to do :)