OK.. so there was a REAL manufacturing fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by disciple
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Thank you posting the cap's label: that is a new one ! I will add this and some other items to post #1 as-soon-as-get-all-items-orginized (and I will before that also perform some extra measurements..)
Please post, if/when this model will give a BS - no matter if it will take ~ 2 months :D
I believe I have had this black screen problem a couple of times with my Leadtek 6800NU (not LE!).
It worked great for the first few months, all pipes unlocked and I had it overclocked to 395/835. I upgraded to an A64 system and it all seemed to go down hill from there. My overclock on the card no longer seemed stable. During 3dmark and AQ3 it would pause a lot and get stuck for about 30 seconds. I lowered it to 380/800 and it seemed ok. I get very rare instances in CS S where it'll pause for about 30 seconds, then carry on. I have had a black screen at the lowered overclock too in CS S though!!!
I was just now playing FarCry, which I have NEVER had any problems with. The sound went funny, the screen went in to standby. I wiggled my mouse and it woke up, but it was black. Hit ctrl+alt+del and I actually got Windows back, couldn't get task manager up, so I just logged off and logged back on again.
The best part? It still does this now even if I put it back in my old Athlon XP system.
The green caps are: "49 470 6E". I think I might try your enhanced cap mod, looks EASY :)
Quite interesting features with your card.. but are those 'black screen' -oddities (?). For me (and many others) 'black screen' means allways total shut down i.e. only way to get computer running again is to switch power off/on. I understood that you can usually get windows running after BS ? Have you never get TOTAL blockout/shutdown ?Quote:
Originally Posted by markiemrboo
However, the detail that the card is not working the same way than before, can be easily explained with the theory: capacitors get ruined after extensively use.
If the problem you have is not actually the same BS-feature, it is hard to say whether the cap-mod will help. But, I think that if the PCB-layout is exactly the same adding a capacitor (not too large) between VDD_memory and GND does not make at least any harm (??). Moreover, it is reported that OC-capability of those cards is improved by adding this capacitor.
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Anyway, that you for providing this information, especially the cap markings !! If this is real BS I will add that capacitor to 'bad capacitor' -list. What is the detailed model number od your card ?
Please post if you decide to make the mod and what is result :)
Does this capacitor sound ok?Quote:
Description: 2200ÁF 16V 105 RADIAL ELECTROLYTIC CAPS (10 of)
Product Code: 160-00111
miniature radial lead 105 deg cent. working electrolytic capacitors
miniature radial lead 105 deg cent. working electrolytic capacitors
wide temperature range
wide temperature range
supplied in packs of 10
supplied in packs of 10
tolerance +/- 20%
tolerance +/- 20%
leakage current max. 0.01cv
leakage current max. 0.01cv
temp. range -40 to +105 deg cent.
temp. range -40 to +105 deg cent.
ripple current measured at 120hz at 105 deg cent.
ripple current measured at 120hz at 105 deg cent.
working voltage 16v 25v 35v 63v
working voltage 16v 25v 35v 63v
surge voltage 20v 32v 44v 79v
surge voltage 20v 32v 44v 79v
dissipation factor tan 0.17 0.15 0.12 0.10
dissipation factor tan 0.17 0.15 0.12 0.10
Single Unit Price: £3.70
(plus VAT at 17.5%)
EDIT: Oh and yeah, the FarCry black screen I just got wasn't like the ones I had before. The ones before were total lockup/freezes :(
EDIT 2: I have also found these, which are 25v and 1000uF, rather than 16v and 2200uF.
"NIPPON C.C. 1000uF 25V LXF ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS"
Dunno the specs. Anyone know if they're high quality? Would a 25v cap work?
Awesome discovery SikaRippa. :woot:
Finally, fixed my BS problem.
Just one 1000uF cap between TP9 and TP10.
Thanks again. :clap:
I think that those capacitors are just excellent for this purpose. I wonder the manufactured is 'Nippon Chemi-Con' and that should be a good brand.Quote:
Originally Posted by markiemrboo
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Some comments for selecting capacitors for this purpose:
- SMALLER ESR spec. is BETTER e.g 0.025 ohm vs 1ohm
- SMALLER dissipation factor (tan d) spec. is BETTER
- LARGER ripple current spec. is BETTER e.g. 4 A - 1 A
- LARGER temperature spec. is BETTER e.g 105 vs 85 C
- LARGER can size spec. is BETTER (too large can be bulky)
- LARGER voltage spec. is BETTER (too large value >25 V means large can size)
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It should be noted that the MOST critical thing is LOW ESR (=high ripple current) in addition to proper capacitance & voltage values and the other items are just if you have opportunity to choose/optimize.
Good info right there, thank you very much!Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
I am going to do some hunting around and see what I can find. I'll post back after the mod and let you know if my horrible pausing / very rare black screen problems disappear :)
Excellent article by the way!
:toast:
EDIT: Oh and I believe the LE and NU PCB's are identical, I think the LE is just an NU with 8 pipes instead of 12?
I ordered some 3300uF caps, they were posted today.. probably with me tomorrow. Do you think 3300uF is too big?
I've had an XFX 6800LE wich had a BS problem if i flashed a 1,4V bios, with a 1,2V or 1,1V bios there weren't any problems. So for me the BS problem was powersupply of the card the problem for the BS because voltage chip were getting very hot and capacitors had a heavy load.
Got my caps today and modded my card. I did a quick bench with AQ3 and 3dmark03 at 400/835 and no pausing. Gonna play some games see if it pauses on those now.
I'll post back in a couple of hours ;)
But yeah, do you think 3300uF is too much? Will my voltage regulator thingy be getting too hot? Which one is it, so I can touch it and see?
Yes Le and NU (and even 6800!) are identical as can be seen in the first figure. However, some manufacturers (like ASUS) are using different design also for LE-card and those have never reported to be affected by BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by markiemrboo
I think 3300 uF is not too big value (maybe you noticed in #1 that I used 4700 uF myself ;) )
The most 'hot' components are probably the mosfets driving the inductors and capacitors. See the figure of the bottom of the card and locate two black components next to node 'phase' (these are for memory). In the same figure three black components at the very bottom of the card are for the core (left from TP5). Be carefully if/when touching those, in order not to destroy anything (due to ESD).
Nice that the first vision are positive !!! I hope you will overcome the problems for ever :)
Nice to have comments also from someone have (had?, your specs..) XFX-card ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DaWaN
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I agree, all modifications that make extra stress (=overclocking & higher voltages increase the BS-propability. There is no direct connection between core and memory voltage generation i.e. those are generated from different power lines (5V and 12V) and separated MOSFET's, caps etc are used. Thus, the increasing the core voltage should not affect on memory voltage, but maybe this can be possible ! The link could be power supply of PC (5V and 12V molex-lines) or the switching regulator chip (drives all MOSFET's)
What clock frequencies you had when BS occured ?
Thank you :) Especially for the lengthy guide!Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
:toast:
I was playing FarCry for a while and it did pause, but I think that was more a loading data in to RAM pause. Usually when it pauses in games the sound will get stuck in a loop and sound weird, like in a higher pitch or something. I don't think it did that this time, but my volume was turned down quite a bit as my sister was asleep. I'll play some more tomorrow JUST to make sure :)
One thing I don't quite understand though, the cap is for the memory, right? I can understand why the memory doesn't really overclock much higher, as I measured the memory voltage, which is only currently at 2.7v and rated for 2.8v I think. But how come this cap mod lets me overclock my core higher again, but without it pausing all the time now? Surely if anything it would have let my memory overclock slightly higher, not the core?
Nice it is working !!Quote:
Originally Posted by markiemrboo
It is hard to say anything clever about memory vs core voltages.. The reason (just guess ;) ) could be that regulator chip gets 'cleaner' supplies when capacitor added (=peak currents are lower)
Version 1.4 of the document has been posted !!
There are several features added, like investigating a 'new' GW6800le-card having memory voltage of 3.19 V (!!!) and some comments how to make an ultimate capacitor modification.
Take a look, and please give comments !!!
It's weird :)
I have just been reading about capacitors and found out that they run best between 20%-80% of their maximum rated voltage. I guess I should probably try and find a 6.3v cap instead? (20% of 16v = 3.2v and it's only getting 2.7v on my card!)
It seems troublesome trying to find caps in the UK! I don't know any local places, so I am having to look online, and most online places kill me with postage costs! The postage generally seems to be more expensive than the caps themselves! :(
Relax, you have a now good capacitor ;) (=16 V capacitor is just fine for this purpose). I doubt that ONLY higher voltage causes some problems i.e. 80% value of the nomical decrease the life of the capacitor considerably.Quote:
Originally Posted by markiemrboo
lol ok, thanks. I'm a n00b, I seem to have trouble understanding electronics properly!
It's just some general purpose (I think) Phillips capacitor that I managed to get hold of, but it seems to have made it stable now (I hope) anyway, so i'll just leave it there if you think it's fine :D
Well, after lots of testing I can confirm this hasn't fixed my annoying pausing/freezing + sound looping thing :(
It's still doing it all over the place. Right now it's actually stuck whilst playing Day of Defeat... it doesn't look like it's going to wake up this time though. The image is just stuck there and the sound is looping :(
Should have gone with an ATI card. I think this is definately going to be my last nVidia...
EDIT: TP11 still reads 1.20v (core voltage) and the cap still reads 2.68v. Perhaps my problem is just.. lack of voltage on something. I think I will be doing a vmem mod soon. I plan on getting an arctic cooler... i'll tell you if that fixes my problem. *goes off and cries*
so i got my GW GF6800LE rev1 replaced with a AOpen Aeolus 6800LE and so far NO BS :D hopefully to stay that way!
C136/C143 = 45 470 6E
ill try and get some pics taken as soon as possible if u want?
It is pity that mod did not work with your card :(Quote:
Originally Posted by markiemrboo
I wonder (again) that the problem might not the BS in the sense normally understood. However, it is intersting that adding a capacitor helped a little: it indicates that there are problems quite similar to 'BS'. I think that voltage levels are ok ! Both voltages are exactly correct, and I think that no modification should be needed (as far as you do not want overclock VERY much)
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I am still interesting about your card since there have to be something different compared to other cards: do you know any www-page having a figure of that card ?
Good news for you :) .. thank you providing us a new capacitor model !!Quote:
Originally Posted by sunn
Please post if you will get BS in future (it is not nice to be sooooooo sceptic BUT I do NOT rely these card too much anymore)
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Figures would be nice, indeed :D :D :D ... having a 'proper' resolution i.e. one could see the component markings.
I just fitted an Arctic Silencer (lowered my temps to 60C full load, from 77C!!). I also did the vmem mod to give my memory 2.8v ... but during 3dmark03 I just now got a black screen of death :(
However. I had my RAM clocked at 900MHz (specs for the RAM are 900MHz @ 2.8v) ... and I had to take off the extra cap because the new cooler is too big. I couldn't see any artifacts up till the black screen though, and I am pretty darn sure my temps are good enough!
Any ideas?
Quote:
Originally Posted by markiemrboo
So.. you did voltage mod, and you have MEASURED you have now 2.8 V ?
Yes, the memory specs for some models is 2.2 ns (~909 MHz), but at least with 6800le-card there have been used all models between 2 ns - 2.8 ns. Have you cheked yourself what code is at top of the memories ?
Yeah, they're 2.2ns memories rated at 900MHz 2.8v
Measured 2.8v, yes. Funny thing is, I have to FORCE the 900MHz with a BIOS flash, because nvidia's overclocking thing always fails at exactly the same limit as before I gave the memories more volts!! That might just be some sort of driver bug though I guess
Well, tried benching 3dmark05 with 400MHz core and 900MHz memory (with the cap back on the back of the card) and it paused half way through, no black screen though! Lowered the memory to 850MHz and it completed the run.
Could be that my cap isn't good enough? My pausing before appears to be completely solved and was definatley heat related. I believe my pausing now is related to power, as the temps are good and it only pauses if I clock the memory too high..
With 1.3v to the core it's clocking at 430MHz on the core ( so far ;) )!! :D But if the memory is clocked too high i'll get pausing. Yet again confirmed, 430/900 = paused in 05. 430/870 = no pausing (running right now, nearly at the end!). I think I just need a really good quality cap on the memory? I mean, adding this cap back actually does seem to have made a difference. These kind of clocks weren't happening yesterday without that cap in place...