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I think hardcoreclocker already told his intentions, why do you bother with flow killer, it's his own problem, not ours he know it's a flowkiller he already assumed it why people are always talking about the same thing, leave it aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by thelostrican
WRONG! Swiftech's 600x series water blocks. They need very little flow to perform. 100% American baby!Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_53
@torin: Did you read the Procooling link uranium provides? I read the comparison about the Nexxxos XP and the Storm block, the charts clearly show that the Nexxxos isn't far behind the Storm at all, and only at higher flow rates. And, do you really think that your setup can give you anything more than maybe a 5° inprovement in temps with all that noise? I don't think so. The blocks have been tested here, and they've been tested in the US. Both tests show the same results ;)
Yes, I am very aware of procooling's reviews and what they think. I visit their forum often. One big thing they don't really account for is how the blocks perform in a loop with other blocks. And what impact the restrictiveness of the CPU block has on the performance of a GPU block. Their tests are good, but they don't account for everything.
I don't know what you consider to be "all that noise". My pump is very quiet, and I run my fans at 7V.... what's important is that I don't have a restrictive block, I don't use restrictive 6mm tubing, I don't use a weak eheim 10xx pump (but it is still quiet and gives great head/flow) and I don't use an itty bitty rad, I've got a nice thick heatercore. Granted it isn't silent (as in you can't hear it), but it is very quiet. Good thick fans can still generate significant pressure and airflow at lower volts. The loudest thing in my system is definitely the hard drives, and there is little I can or will do about that. I really can't say what a "german" setup would give on my system, but I guarantee it won't be much quieter, and even if it was, it wouldn't matter, as the hard drives would still be the loudest thing.
Point here being that you don't need little restrictive blocks and weak fans and small rads and tiny tubing to give you a quiet system. You can still optimize for performance at a minimal level of noise. I can pretty much guarantee you though my temps will be better than a german setup.
i dont think u'll be able to persuade us, sry, i dont know ur watercooling stuff down in the us, but only thing i know is that our german equipment suits our needs perfectly, we have a large variety of coolers, pumps, radiator etc. in any flavor, speed, quality and size. if u are willing to pay good money for quality u can setup a cooling system nearly noiseless but nonetheless extremely well performing, so whats yout point? as is said before i dont know the us equipment and frankly i dont think i'd have to, u guys didnt reinvent the wheel either, water cooling remains a limited science where u'll never reach the absolute zero(0K), so i dont think bashing on each other is neccessary at all.
i suppose both setups are worth risking, so neither of them will be the end of the world as we know it :toast:
S'cuse me but the topic of this thread is Here we have a fitting waterblock for DFI NF4 !!!, can we get back on topic please, and take the USA vs Germany and Germany vs USA bashing to the appropriate thread, which you will find......probably on another site!
Spare us the futilities of this bashing please!
I'm sorry I didn't notice this was your thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindbat
I am sorry but there is nothing wrong with going back to topic when it is going so far off topic with NOTHING productive being implied here. Blindbat seems to be geniune poster from few helps I got... :P
There is no MY thread nor YOUR thred imho once you put it out in public like this.
Just to stray off a little further I know where both people are coming from. There are people who want silent system, there are people who overclock and silent, there are people who want overclock and bearable, and there are the few who wouldn't mind going unbearable. Most Europeans are more into silent technology than US market is. (Don't start arguing with me on this, just sheer number of product available says something as well as number of non american member on silentpcreview which is hosted in US) We just take different approach on getting to similar point. From what I am used to seeing, advantage of German method is easier to manage tubing (thinner tube), American way is advantage of maximizing gain and taking nothing for granted (you do have to learn your components though). Both certainly do work well and can be quietened down within reason.
Back to topic. I really do suggest trying modifying zalman passive heatsink to fit in there with 50 or 40mm fan running slow.
Mine shows heatsink temp at base of 32c max temperature (25c ambient) which probably is what you will get with waterblock considering the flow that goes through it as well as the fact you water temp will be few degree above ambient.
Fat tubing is so unnecessary...what... it will give you a couple degrees more performance?
^^^^ We're already talking about a method of cooling that while marginally better, doesn't blow the doors off high quality air. Use that philosophy too often and soon I have to wonder why bother at all.
Anyways, this is the second thread with a total flow killer as the topic, not surprised it is evolving to this. Most of us being US, at first look are curious what the fascination with this kind of block is. What else to do? Copy-Paste the posts from the other thread.... No. Explain how this is good when most surely want a graphics card in the loop. Some comments are kind of sharp and pointed. I don't know how it turned US vrs German but I have noticed a total different philosophy of block making than available here and it's fun to have a calm discussion about it. For now my comment is much like OPP's... you can have it. Same with the other thread. Dejavu anyone? http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=51907
And a couple degrees isn't worth it? Why use anything but a stock heatsink at all then?Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverXP
wow, buying a big pump (*iwaki or some other stoff, like a bosch car pump*), getting 14mm (*or even bigger*) tubes, a small rade and a loud fan to end up with 2°C more :stick: . realy impressiv you know, you guys don't think that mush about watertemp and thats to a prob. i don't hear soemthink from my setup and get good temps, so where ist the point in going the american way and not really getting a better temps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torin
edit: fat tubes give like 0,5-1° :rolleyes:
That depends... the difference between a stock Winnie/Prescott heatsink and you're most popular aftermarket HSF, a Thermalright XP-90/120 or Coolermaster Hyper6, can be huge and have a large affect on an overclock, simply because the all aluminum stock heatsinks are only used for stock cooling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torin
The difference between your average 3/8" Swiftech watercooling kit with an MCP350 and your high performance Iwaki 20RZT and Triple Fan Radiator is smaller than the previous comparison. The Iwaki setup will give you better C/W. but it will have diminishing returns on overclock performance. I know... because as a watercooler I started out high flow with an Iwaki, and got tired of the fat tubing and eventually went "German" or Swiftech and loved the aesthetic appeal because of the smaller tubing.
If you can spend all that money for an Iwaki, a triple rad, Storm block, etc. (which is what I would consider to be a "Step-up" to a standard Swiftech kit...) then why not invest in Phase-change seeing as how you're reaching that level in money.. and are concerned about those few extra degrees in performance.
Because of all the amazing performances from preconfigured setups (with low noise pumps and smaller tubing) from Swiftech and Asetek... watercooling for me isn't even high performance oriented anymore. Even Cathar himself has built a block that only increases slightly in high flow... meaning with 3/8 tubing his Storm block will still be highly effective relative to overclocks.
And I agree... I probably said this a billion times on other forums... but ohh well.. I had time on my hands.
Wow, I didnt see this for a while...
As opp said that thing is a total flow killer for no reason..
Holst, the oring is recessed into the top part of the block so the two pieces will sit flush. you can see in the picture that ther are makrs on the top of the block from the channel walls being pushed up against the brass.
Radical_53: About your euro perspective. The euro blocks work well at low flow, BUT BUT BUT... they need HUGE pumping power to get even little amounts of flow.. for instance the nexxos xp wont even get over one gpm with an IWAKI!! The american blocks give you = to or better performance and you get alot more flow which means that you get better cooling in the rad and the other blocks in the system will be getting more flow as well... All in all a better performing system.
Also you say that american blocks in general dont perform well at low flow and that is true for the most part... but to get ur average american block to the same levels of low flow, you need HALF to a QUARTER of the pumping power.. so that means i could use a TINY little pump to get the same flow as you would get with an Iwaki on alot of the german blocks..
because i can express my opinion...thats what people use forums for...relax, there nothing wrong with owning low flow equipment....Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel
Heh, that is exactly why I moved on from H2O -> Peltier double loop -> phase change with water for GPU. I figured I would spend about same money, oh boy was I wrong or what. Each modification on phase unit will be $150-300 (enough for full loop), repair if you break something starts from $100-200, shipping becomes major issue if you don't have guru around ($40-50 each way), etc, etc. And it doesn't help that it gives you a LOT more chance to burn components with trigger happy mindset of I have the temp let's jam the voltage :) Was fun while it lasted but I am taking back seat on the phase change cooling (and peltier never got back to my mind as I first hand found out how inefficient that method of cooling was... you really might as well go phase change cooling if you do plan peltier)Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverXP
Just my 2c :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
Well, we had high-flow blocks here too. Thing is, that was about 5 years ago. Also, have you ever heard of the Laing/Delphi DDC pump? It's small, silent, has an impressive power and needs only ~10w to operate.
High flow might only have an effect on the efficiency of the block, but not the rad. Also, chipset/graphics blocks aren't that restrictive, as they don't have to cool as much (normally).
We also have tests here with all kinds of pumps, without flow restrictions and e.g. with 10mm tubing. Flow suffers dramatically when using 4 or 6mm ID tubing, but anything above won't harm flow that much. Also, a certain flow is needed for good performance. Anything further would only improve performance by a very small margin, nothing that you or me could really measure.
:D Wise spoken - I agree and BTW we are talking about WC for chipset - therefore You do not have to max out the flow, the heat output isn't that much than the one of a CPU.......... :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_53
homemade phasechange is better and cheaper than good watercooling, so the best thing about w/cool is the silence.
Torin you only have a nf2 board, so you cant comment on whether w/cooling the chipset is still a waste. the nf3 and nf4 chipsets get burning hot on stock sinks
the point of watercooling nf3/4 is becasue the NV cards hang over chipset, and it heats them up reducing the overclock. i know from experience
so watercooling can trap the heat and move it away
:D Yep, sure man - thats also my opinion. That's the reason getting CPU on phase and chipset on water.......... :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
Very true. I had phase change before, but as I'm running 24/7 I switched to w/c.Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
And yes, chipset on NF4 gets really hot, so I guess its really worth cooling it with water, especially with two 6800 monsters just in front of it.
:D Yep - though myself won't run SLI in next future I always looked for information about it and found a review about SLI temperatures, don't know where anymore, but it's been said the lower card has been measured at 80°C and the upper one even at 90°C.
That's a lot of hot stuff in rig !!!
:toast:
Yep, an awesome amount of heat. I'd never run a SLI sys on air, I'd be worried too much destroying the cards. 6800 is a hot running card anyhow, but 2 of them? No way ;) Not on air...
here's the italian mobo's chipset and vga's chipset waterblock bas been changed this is rev 2 :)
http://www.pctuner.net/img_wb/k5_rev...e/k5r2_014.jpg
http://www.pctuner.net/img_wb/k5_rev...e/k5r2_017.jpg
http://www.pctuner.net/img_wb/k5_rev...e/k5r2_030.jpg
http://www.pctuner.net/img_wb/k5_rev...e/k5r2_033.jpg
the new revision has been test with L30 pump 1meter of tube(12x17)
660 litres/hr chipset
520 litres/hr VGA
looks cool also :)
Interesting discussion and points about waterblocks, and methods to go about removing heat. There are these blocks for the nf4 chip, the Cool Cases one is about .78" tall, http://www.cool-cases-usa.com/cc_main.htm#cf-2 . I don't know abut the Aqua-Computer one, http://snt-systems.com/catalog/produ...products_id=50 . Hoses should not be a problem on either. The hoses can be on the side for the low profile Aqua-Computer one. Both are expensive though. Slightly OT, I had a Swiftech 6002 on my XP-m and it would always keep the temps 38-41 with 1.95@2600 to 2700+ and with DI on the rad could get it down to 12 (bios). Now I have a dfi nf4 and need another block. With 1/2" tube and Mag3 I was leaning toward the Cuplex-Pro, http://snt-systems.com/catalog/produ...products_id=86 as it it rated quite high at http://www.watercoolplanet.de/index....ow=1&pagenum=1 . Well ahead of some more popular US and other made types. But after reading about the restrictive properties of the Cuplex, as opposed to the free flow of the Swiftech for example, I am reconsidering my desire for the Cuplex. I can certainly see how the design of the impingement type block could work well and testing shows that. But in higher flow and considerably higher than stock cpu temps is it really better as the testing used for the chart depicts. EDIT: D@MN SILA, that a nice looking block above.