NVIDIA thermal throttling removed!!! Higher Scores!

Ok lets take this step by step. Sure i knew and most benchmarkers know about setting 2d/3d clocks same. Thats on what this theory is based. Lets forget about voltage for now.
Now that its been known that when you set 2d/3d clocks the same you get better performance in benchmarks.
The only problem is that when you set them the same while benching card will drop your 2d clock to default settings even if you set it to your 3d settings

Now lets analyzy my graphics. Here is what happens.
1st. I apply 472/1300 to both 2d/3d.
2nd. I run 3dMark. Here you can see that while 3dmark was running my 2d clock droped to 421.
3rd. After benchmark finishid 2d clock raised to 472

All that i'm showing you here that the card was unable to sustain 2d clock @472 while benchmarking. Dont pay attention to nothing else on this graph its not important.

Now that we all know that we get beter performance when 2d/3d cloks stay same the question is how do we not let 2d clock drop.

The answer: You create bios which boots from the OC settings you need. Its kind of overcloking your card thru bios. This only stand true for the core since memory does not drop oc.

In my case 472/1350 is not max setting i can benchmark. I can benchmark 501 core but then i cant bring my mem that high. I dont know why it cold be few reasons.I think its related to PSU since i see my 12v RAil drop to 11.46 while benching. It can also be ther one molex connector since this is a GT and not enough power for the card. But i know that for my card this is the setting at which it performs best. So i make the bios that starts from 472 core. Sure i can stil oc to 500 and bench on it but that 500 on 2d will still drop to 472. And i find that i get beter score with higher ram than higher core. You need to comporomise something.

I'm not going to go into how to create and flash bios here all that i want to say that GT should use GT bios and not Ultra's. Best i found for gt is to make 1.4v on 2d/3d and to whatever boot settings you need. I use Omni editor which i got from Mavk site.

Here is the proof that this bios trick works. Take a look at this 3dmark score i benched on exactly same settings 472/1350 and same drivers. CPU is alitle lower but that is no big deal 140mhz more would net me 40+ points.

Here is the score with original bios which starts 421/1200
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=398554

Here is the score with bios which starts 472/1200
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=393003

Just not letting my 2d clock drop i gaind 300 points. This is not some king of tweak no LOD bias used. Just different bios.

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Posted by Reject
hey edfx, welcome to XS
so you gained 100 points doing this? i remeber your prevous WR was 6500 something
im gonna test this, but its pretty annoying, i change both core and memory clocks depending on the bench, even 03 and 05 have differenct maxes for me

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Sup bud nice to see some familiar faces :toast: . This fourum here rules allot of extreme OC'ers here. I bet i will enjoy beeing a member :D

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Originally Posted by drcrawn

could you tell us a little more about your setup railer? I don't understand a few things. For one, the first pic you posted makes no sense to me. 9 degree celcius increase in temps is ALOT especially with chilled water...that pic almost looks like you set the 2d at 472, then ran a 3d app for like one second @421 and the temp jumped to 19c from 10c. Maybe I don't understand the pic... Why would a drop in core clock cause a rise in temp by that much?
Also, I know certain chips oc better than others, but with 1.5v and below 20c temps, shouldn't you be up around 485 at least? 472 seems awful low to me with such good temps and high volt...

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he has his stuff in a rubbermaid esky with an AC evap inside too
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...=133465&page=3

Ok...I get ya Railer. My question is can you repeat this with lower clocks, say 450/450. For example, set your bios to 2d-450, 3d-450. Will you have a greater gain in benchmark than if your bios was 2d-400 3d-450? Or, does this only really apply during cold throttle situations?
I think all you are saying is that in order to get around the cold throttle, you make the bios to "throttle" to the same core as 3d, and same volt, in effect nothing happens when the card "throttles" then b/c no matter what, it always does 3d core and volt settings. It's a work around, right?
Fundamentally, why do you think the performance in benchies is increased when you set the 2d and 3d core values the same? This can't be true across the board, right? This is only to get around the card cold throttling right?
For ppls that don't cold throttle, this really doesnt apply...? Or can you show that hands down with out a doubt setting 2d and 3d core values the same is ALWAYS better, no matter what your cooling is? If you can show that, I'd be amazed and extremely surprised?
Also, that link, I can't see your setup bc I'm not a member :confused:

I guess what I'm saying is that, you are dropping your clocks to 2d volt and core in all your benchies because of the simple fact that you are sub-25c. Everytime you run 3d app, the card is so cold it freaks out and cold throttles to 2d. That would explain the 300 points. Its the difference between running your card at 421 and 472. So in your case, since you are cold throttling all the time, you NEED to set 2d to same as 3d bc you are always going to cold throttle.

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For ppls that don't cold throttle, this really doesnt apply...? Or can you show that hands down with out a doubt setting 2d and 3d core values the same is ALWAYS better, no matter what your cooling is? If you can show that, I'd be amazed and extremely surprised?

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Ok lets clear this up. I get -30 inside the box hovever when i bench i get my core sometimes rise to 12-15c. I dont have a WC chiled but i soon will. I do boot when the card is -27 so there is no problem there. This trick should work for anyone regardless of the temps or cloks they use. For instance GT bios start 350/1000.So if you make bios that start 410/1100 you will benefit 60 Mhz on the core couse even if youOC your core to 450 it will only drop to 410 on 2d instead of 350. All you need to do is to know your max safe bench settings. Then just make a bios with those speed and give it a try.

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Originally Posted by railer

Ok lets clear this up. I get -30 inside the box hovever when i bench i get my core sometimes rise to 12-15c. I dont have a WC chiled but i soon will. I do boot when the card is -27 so there is no problem there. This trick should work for anyone regardless of the temps. All you need to do is to know your max safe bench settings. Then just make a bios with those speed and give it a try.

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12-15c is still well into the cold throttle...so I can see how this works b/c you WILL cold throttle all the time with those temps. But unless you are cold throttling...no need, in fact it might not be safe really, especially with air cooling.
For me, running bench at 513 at about 34c load, I'm not going to tempt fate by forcing the card to throttle to 513mhz @1.5v if for some reason it wants to throttle. I say let it throttle, it's a fail safe. That would be a ticking timebomb...But, this is only b/c I dont have the cold temps that you have. :toast: If I did, this would be the way to go to prevent clocks and volt from dropping during 3d runs.
You might want to ask lardarse or dpa what their bios settings are on their Ultras, I think they do the same thing (set 2d/3d volts and clocks the same) to avoid cold throttle, but I dont want to speak for anyone...
I more or less play games and do some benching for fun...so...
But damn I got a great chip! It just loves to run @500 on normal watercooling, which is fine by me :D

edit: I'm tired, so I'm going to bed. Take it easy Railer et al.

why does my card throttle at lower temps than artifacts and why can i run 3dmarks at higher speeds than games? like 10-20mhz higher

I think the temps are the issue here. It realy dont mater on what your clocks set to even in the bios. If there is to much workload and the temps to high the card will trottle. Happens to me too if i clock it and then if my temps rise to some level it will start droping frames. But this is normal nothing you can do about that that just means that the card is to much Oc'ed.

Now games are way diferent then 3dmark. 3dmark might stress your hardware more but its way shorter runtime. With games it could be planty of issues. For instance when i play Doom3 @470/1300 it does fine for about 30 min then the game starts to slowdown. Same clock HL2 i playd for 3 hrs and no issues at all. So i say it purely depends on the game how well its written and how it reacts to OC.

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Originally Posted by reject

why does my card throttle at lower temps than artifacts and why can i run 3dmarks at higher speeds than games? like 10-20mhz higher

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Artifacts are overheating v ram, has little to do with core, except that core heat makes its way to memory. 1200 memory is very good for GT, and 425 core isnt bad either. Realize that Ultra's are set to only 400...
Now, what do you mean by throttling? How do you know it's throttling(i.e. dropping vcore and clocks to 2D)? In another thread you said you were annoyed with the nVidia throttling. NV throttle isnt an issue really unless you are freezing the card with temps below around 25c.
I think what you are experiencing is unstable overclock due to heat and probably lack of voltage to drive the core much above what you are getting. That's the way the card is designed though. ATIs just freeze up and lock, nVidia drops volts...same thing...safety issue. If you can run riva monitor while playing 15 minutes of any game with say 420 on the core and your max memory, the temps will give us a better idea of what your card is maybe capable of. Tell us your max load temp...
That being said, I wouldnt be dissapointed with a GT that will run 400/1.2...or in your case a bit higher...you got an Ultra at GT price...
All these cards run hot hot hot, so don't expect so much with stock cooler or nv5 silencer.

theres cold lock, and theres throttling, and theres genuine throttling (freezes).
i was getting the real deal where may card was too hot, froze for a vew seconds, only i was confused casue it happened at a lower temp (5c lower) than 5mhz less in speed where it artifacted
thanks for the suggestions
i find it annoying how i have to have a different bios for every bench and 1 for games all at differenct speeds. the 5900xts that throttled at least had same settings for each bench
oh btw. i reseated my nv silencer and got it on soo good my temps went down about 7c idle :D now ill test it again

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Just not letting my 2d clock drop i gaind 300 points. This is not some king of tweak no LOD bias used. Just different bios.

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Just to prove that i dint use any tweaks and that diference is real with just a bios mod i ran 3dmark05 with Lod Bias tweak. As you can see there is a diference by 250 points comparing to my other score.

I'm not truing to show off here :stick: just trying to point out that this realy works and share this with the communty. With all the respect to members of xtremesystems: this is one serios crew you got here :cool: im kind of suprised that most of you still didnt try this out. I'm sure the top benchmark crew here who uses 3 stage cascade will benchmark NVIDIA sli sytem just to stay on top of the game. Those ATI OC's and scores are realy nice and impresive but for near future SLI will be on top in benchmarks. Not like it 's fare to compare 2 cards to 1 but i guess for some people score is all that matter

By the way with this Bios mod and LOD bias tweak i bench 6904 This beats highest score posted by AGP 6800GT or Ultra. Not like i consider this LOd bias score an achivemnt all it proves that with doing this bios mod you gain about 300 points.

LOD + bias is a a legit tweak

Thanks i know. Still i play games with my LOD Bias normal thats why i'm not so trilled about benching with it tweaked. But i know most people use it anyway's when benching i just like to point out when i do .
By the way that an awesome monster you got on your sig there Reject ;) .
Now i need to photoshop me a sig ;hehe

:D
masterofpuppets made it for me, hes giving em away free in the photochop forum
i took a screen of doom 3 where the portal to hell opens
btw. grats on the sick score :banana4:

Nice railer. When I get home, I'm gonna LOD as much as possible and beat you with non-fm drivers. Or at least I hope.
I know my card doesnt drop clocks, and I think I can give you a run for your money with my Ultra at around 515 if I can get a clean run. The most I've done is 513, but I'll get some better temps and stress the mem some more, and I'll beat you (hopefully)
Your CPU really helps you out, as my FX needs another 200mhz or so to compete with your chip @ 4.2ghz, which I dont think I can get. I'm just gonna have to make up those points with higher gpu/mem clocks. Happy holidays and congrats on your 6.9k!

oh one quick noob question, since I havent used LOD, do I set it to + 3 or - 3? Too bad I dont have pro version, it gives you +or- 15, LOL.
Dont like using LOD at all, but as long as I put it in the description as you have I think its ok since it is accepted.
My gaming still rocks though!

Eh i bet your gaiming rocks. Mine rocks @ just 450/1300 and you got nice OC on the core.
Well Good luck mate. I'm sure ur setup could compete realy close with myne :D if you will do everything right. It's strange and what i dont underastand it seams to me that GT will beat ULTRA @same clock. I dont know why perhaps GT has diferent mem timings. Or i might be wrong couse i cant test this 100%.

The lod in D3d i think you shoould be +3up or + 12 whatever you need. TRy it with - too :rocker:

My VapoPE cooled 6800GT never suffered from throttling, it did get the stuttering pauses and lockups if pushed to far but that was it. I logged the Rivatuner graphs many times when I got pauses but the clocks remained stable.
Interestingly though, my core temps never exceeded the 10c mark, so I never knew what the temp was, only that it never got higher than 10c to tell. Maybe it a sudden rise/ jump in temps that pulls in the throttling, meaning it wouldn't matter if you were at 11c say, but if it jumped to quickly to say 19c then it would throttle.
For added info, I set my cores the same and my volts the same and had performance mode locked on in Rivatuner. 3D05 run at 472/1250 and that was a very average 6800GT, unfortunatley now expired after 5mths Vapo'd.

thats about average for a vapo PE. what temps, about -10c?

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Originally Posted by reject

thats about average for a vapo PE. what temps, about -10c?

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It would sit on -30c idle (hold temp) and the worst it got too was -22.5 while benching, these being evaporator temps.
I don't know about average, as I only got 400/1000 on air doing core clocking. 400 wasn't stable if I up'd the mem too.

well my card did 415/590 stock in winter, now with nv5 silencer its very sensitive to temps. 1c drop in ambient and it could do 425/607, but if it gets a little hot then 410/590 is my best. stock cooling was 405/575 at the same temp nv5 does 425/607
if i try 420 sore when its hot, its unstable even with 500 mem
\i wanna sell this card its hard work and not fun :(

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how do you document this clock drop? How do you know it has happened? Is there some sort of throttle monitoring software for the GPU?

not a dumb question, you can use rivatuner to monitor for clock drops or whatever. check out the first page of this thread, riva monitoring pics are everywhere.

Well, this certainly works on my 6800GT. After running 3Dmark2001 with Riva running in the background, sure enough, there was clock throttling. Set at 397 in both 2D & 3D, the clock dropped to the stock 350 for extended periods during the bench.

After I flashed the "default" 3D setting in the BIOS to 397, no throttling, 397 throughout the bench, and of course correspondingly higher score. Same at 405. :toast:

This is on stock air. I've had a Swiftech waterblock sitting around for over a month, so I guess I need to hook that up, and increase the voltage.

At some point, I intend to pelt this thing, something that would have been a fool's errand without this BIOS tweak.

Much thanks to railer for this thread. :worship:

Thanks also to drcrawn for pointing out what was already in this thread but I was too ADD to catch the first time (Riva's hardware monitor). :lol:

wat are your psu rails.
i had an aspire psu it was 11.4v 3.2v 5v they suck

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After I flashed the "default" 3D setting in the BIOS to 397, no throttling, 397 throughout the bench, and of course correspondingly higher score. Same at 405.

This is on stock air. I've had a Swiftech waterblock sitting around for over a month, so I guess I need to hook that up, and increase the voltage.

At some point, I intend to pelt this thing, something that would have been a fool's errand without this BIOS tweak.

Much thanks to railer for this thread.

Thanks also to drcrawn for pointing out what was already in this thread but I was too ADD to catch the first time (Riva's hardware monitor).

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Whala , finaly someone tested this. I'm glad it help you get higher scores Uclajd. It should work for anyone regardles of the clock. . I generaly get 300+ points from my original Vmoded bios which started @400 core. So not droping back to 400 on 2d with my 472 OC gains me that much. Somone with high OC like 500+ core would realy see performance increase with this technique. All thou the cooling has to be right. I'm not promising anything to anyone just letting people know what has worked for me. We all got diferent setups so this tweak might work or not.

Anyway.
All of you have a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! :toast:
and Good luck to you all :YIPPIE:

But do we know this actually works for the cold lock issue?

As far as thew Aspire, yes I get droop on the 12V rail, but I don't know if this is a mobo issue or the Aspire or both. :confused: