LOL - Spend an extra $1000 to get 900 points more than Macci on an XT PE
He He He - History will ultimately repeat itself (as it did with 3dfx SLI) :p:
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LOL - Spend an extra $1000 to get 900 points more than Macci on an XT PE
He He He - History will ultimately repeat itself (as it did with 3dfx SLI) :p:
I've placed a pre order for my midrange rig;
1 x 3200+ 90nm
2 x 512 OCZ rev 2 plat.
2 x 6800 GT
1 x DFI nforce 4
2 x Raptors 74 gigers
in the region of 1800 $ when realeased is my guesstimation.
will ATI come with some SLi also?
They dont have a chance with single card vs. 2 card system.. and nvidia will be the king of high performance
....... they are scoring 9300 at stock speeds that XT is massively overclocked, if you overclock the ultras you would hit 12k ezQuote:
Originally Posted by perkam
And no, ATI does not have SLI technology, at least not that anyone knows about, Nvidia probly has it patented and is probly not willing to share as the vid card buisness is cut-throat
No one said you cant run two XT PEs on an nforce4 board or even dual PCIe offerings from Via (Not to mention ATI's own PCIe chipsets coming out real soon :) )
They just need the right drivers to perform just as well as SLI.
Not that you would want to: all of the SLI results coming on 3dmark05 right now are from Nvidia and so issues such as heat, OC-ability, and long term life of the cards themselves ($500 - $1000 investment) are still unresolved.
EDIT: As I said, you CANT massively overclock the 6800 GTs because of SLI (like two bricks on fire lol)
HardOCP Conclusion:
"If I were about to pull the trigger on a new ATI video card purchase that I knew would be for a long-time install, this NVIDIA SLI technology would certainly make me stop and rethink my position."
I wouldnt believe that for more than one reason:
- If you have a 6800 ultra AGP now, another 6800 Ultra is illogical because dual AGP doesnt exist
- An nforce4 mobo upgrade, ddr2 ram and a pcie 6800 ultra will never cost as much as a top of the line X800 XT PE
- Because of the high cost of building SLI technology and supporting it with drivers for such a small segment of the market, ATI will introduce a price cut on its X800s long before Nvidia will be able to make SLI affordable
My 0.02
Maybe some mobo maker will offset and flip 2 pci-e slots so that you can have 2 cards facing out, with an inversed bridge chip.
Would take up a hell of a lot of space, totally screw over the leads in the pcb and generally cause a lot of fuss.Code:----|-
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But you could put 2 cascades on it!
I think [H] was referring to the purchases of PCI-E cards. The 6800 Ultra PCI-E has already popped up in vendors.... and they seem to be going fast despite their pricetag of over 600. The other alternative is an X800XT PCI-E... and [H] was making a point of why would you purchase an XT knowing you can get equal performance out of a 6800 Ultra with a much better upgrade path. You' d be a fool to pass that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Nforce4 doesn't take DDR2... AMD hasn't made that move... so our lovely Microns and Samsung chips will make a fine transition into Nforce4.
ATI introduce price cuts? They would need to cut all their production costs first.... but to what extent when they can't even release their product at all? Why lower the price on a nonexistent card... so that vendors can price gouge the XT PEs and take advantage of its supply and demand even more?
The only thing I'm worried about is a PSU.... but I think I'll just settle for OCZ's upcoming 600 watt.... no need for a 800 watt from PC power and cooling if you're not gonna run dual CPUs...
well ati could always go down the alienware solution... bazong 2 cards, so what?
and regarding the cooling of a pair of cards. hm, why not try and build an evap the cools the front of one card plus the back of the card next to it and another evap for that cards chip? like a mini-dualie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky
Haha.... my friend works for Alienware.... tell me why he is impressed with Nvidia's SLI? Seems Alienware is having a little bit of trouble...
Part of it is because Alienware isn't able to tune the graphics drivers for the hardware.
quiksilverxp,
Its also a fundemental technology issue if Graphics Cards companies just keep introducing newer drivers to get the true 2x performance from dual PCIe instead of enhancing the architecture.
Basically, if ATI cant answer to SLI, they'll have to bring out the R520 sooner than Nvidia's next chip and will also start producing more power efficient and small cores (65nm anyone :p: ) to compete.
All in all, even future consoles wont consider SLI (part of the reason for Xbox 2 ATI linkup) and over the long run, it just isnt feasible to have to upgrade two cards instead of one when they become obsolete.
Perkam
Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I don't see why you would do two at once...
Start now with a single card of your choice. 2 years down the road, you get an identical card for $130 and a cpu upgrade so that the cpu isn't your limiting factor. Now you've nearly doubled your framerate at a very reasonable price. 2 years after that, you get a single, brand new top-of-the-line-also-capable-of-SLI video card to keep up. 2 years after that, you double up on that one. You could repeat this until the cows go home, and it'd be a lot cheaper than buying a brand new, top-of-the-line video card every 2 years + other ugprades.
Excellent points, perkam.
I still wonder how ATi will hold its own in the high-end enthusiast market if all the cash-laden folks start wanting/getting SLI rigs.
It will be interesting to see how this rivalry unfolds. If ATi has to become the cheap solution (just to compete) it will be a great time for "thrifty" people like me, but I kind of doubt that will happen. ATi is probably working on something that should at least allow them to compete with nVidia's SLI (maybe?).
EDIT: Grayson Carlyle, that's probably a pretty cost-effective solution, but what about the people that want to have the best hardware all the time? Those people, however small a minority they might be, WILL have to replace both cards at once to remain on top.
What about one solution to fit two cards, and just insulate the components that shouldn't be cooled?Quote:
Originally Posted by Geforce4ti4200
a0chicken, please elaborate
why that complicated? a phase change head with the tube going in from the side of the block would be all thats needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by enzoR
if noone said it to you then let me be the first to tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
NO! you CANT run teo xt-pe cards on an nforce4 board because their cards dont have sli. (unless they DO have sli like capabilities but have managed to hide it from the rest of the world)
who said you cant oc the 6800GTs in sli? link?Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
nf4=!ddr2Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
the reason why sli will be successfull is because you only have to pay 30$ more for an sli capable board and 0$ extra for an sli capable card, so for 30$ you get the option to almost double your systems performence by adding another card later on instead of selling your old card and getting a new one that performs as fast as 2 cards in sli.
and what makes you think ati could release their next gen card faster than nvidia and go to 65nm faster than nvida? just because they are "better"? :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
you got a point about the price of upgrading though. 2 6600gts cost 400$, a single 6800gt costs the same.
so if you buy a 6600gt now and upgrade to a second 6600gt later for lets say 100$, by that time you could as well sell your first 6600gt card (+100$) and buy a 6800gt card for 200$.
and i ´m sure you get more fps with a single 6800gt than with 2 6600gts...
actually saaya, all ATI's gpu's since the R100 have been SLI capable. There was the Rage Fury Maxx too (I know you owned one ;) ) but I forget what chipset it used.
Ahem...Ahum...(Clears throat before lengthy rebuttal)
I cant say that to be entirely true...Macci, Pedro, etc would probably know better about this but I sure know that Nvidia is on the wrong side of the overclocking game with SLI. Nvidia cards are still the only ones that take two slots (6800) with one card let alone achieving the highest performance with 4 slots being used up side by side. In addition, the bridge the connects them is a major obstacle to proper phase change cooling as it restrains any "out of the case" cooling for massively overclocked performance figures.Quote:
why that complicated? a phase change head with the tube going in from the side of the block would be all thats needed.
Its interesting to see that you suggested phase change right off the bat for cooling purposes as 90% of the Vid Card market does not have access to or doesn't have the expertise to use those cooling methods. Most of us just use air - which will be a really big issue with Nvidia catering to greater numbers. I imagine some exotic pre-installed air cooling system will come with manufacturers selling two bundled Nvidia cards in the same box (its inevitable) for $450-500 for the 6600 GTs and $1000 to 1200 for the 6800 Ultra/GTs.
You're very wrong there. ATI cards have always had the ability to run two cards in the same system, just not with the same performance maximization as SLI. I'm actually planning on two X700XTs in my PCIe system :cool: . Its actually the kind of difference between single and dual channel ram - fundementally speaking. Dual channel works at full capacity 1 Gig with maximum memory bandwith while single channel at 1 gig works slower but still runs at whatever default speed both rams are on (be it PC-3200 or PC2-5400).Quote:
if noone said it to you then let me be the first to tell you. NO! you CANT run teo xt-pe cards on an nforce4 board because their cards dont have sli.
Too much coffee - I was thinking the Dual PCIe offerings from Via, etc that do require DDR2 for Intel chipsets (as all SLI cards WILL SURELY NOT be running on AMD Chipsets)Quote:
nf4=!ddr2
Firstly, your $30 cost for sli capable board is already off as the nforce 4 will not cost $30 more than AGP or even current PCIe offerings and never has. As soon as it hits the market, its going to be at least $220 - $250. In addition, the cost of selling your old card in a one card scenario saves you money on your next card. So if you have a 9800XT right now and want to upgrade to an X800 XT, you sell your 9800XT for $250 (at least) and buy an X800 XT for $500 - only having to spend $250-$300 for a brand spanking new card.Quote:
the reason why sli will be successfull is because you only have to pay 30$ more for an sli capable board and 0$ extra for an sli capable card, so for 30$ you get the option to almost double your systems performence by adding another card later on instead of selling your old card and getting a new one that performs as fast as 2 cards in sli.
With SLI, your 5900XT PCIE continues to be obsolete but instead of replacing it, you add another one for a temporary performance increase and you're still stuck with the same old technology. In addition, lets even make it two 6800 ultras - what are you giong to do when, couple of years down the road, you already have two obsolete cards on your mobo - get 4 !!!???. Nope, you'll be stuck with two and because you bought your second 6800 Ultra when prices decreased and technology got better, the residual value of your 6800 Ultra will be much lower because you waited longer to sell them than the one card solution.
Lastly, Im out of breath, ATi CAN and WILL release its R520 to xbox 2 game developers in q1 2005, meaning a public version sometime q3/q4 2005, if not before. Part of the reason Microsoft switched to ATi from Nvidia was because it could not cut its cost down and Microsoft could not cut prices on the Xbox to remain competitive because of Nvidia. So i am quite confident ATI will have some response to Nvidia's SLI - which has yet to reach the mainstream, whereas ATI's solutions will always cater to the mainstream while remaining competitive at the high end.
Perkam
Maybe ati can do dual core, if amd can then so can ati. The core would be rectangular with one heatsink/fan with two chips inside. another option is ati go 32 pipes to beat two of nvidia's 16 pipe cards
saaya, i think the thinest any ddblock can be that will cool well will be .5" with
.375" channels depth, just that and its own insulation i don't think will fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I thought of that as well, but I don't think that would work or it would be a very tight fit, because you need to insulate the evaporator block as well, which takes room in all directions.
edit:
oh, didn't notice pandas post... :rolleyes:
what about watercooling or just superchilled air blowing?
watercooling would be easy the mobos are made for 2x 2 slot vid cards and watercooling fits easy in that space.
Can't we all just agree that for stock two SLIs are awesome and accept it. I'm sure ATI has something up their sleeve... but how do you know Nvidia doesn't also? They have surprised us with their SLI capability... perhaps hey have something else.