Nf3 250/250gb/ultra Chipset Overclocking Issue !!!

@Oscar

Thanks for your hints here! :)

You wrote:"2 . HTT clock PLL register is powered by stanby voltage , which means after you power down the system , the HTT clock register will remain the same before power down ... If you use low cpu ratio and high FSB combination , the board may fail to boot in next power up ... Ex : 3400+ cpu OC to 300 * 8 , in the next power up , CPU frequency will be 300 * 11 = 3300 mhz immediately"

Well, this issue was exisitng with the first bios releases by MSI, but it seems they fixed the issue in the latest Beta-bios releases and booting with high FSB fixed in bios are finally possible (I could boot with 270x8).
Does that mean that this has not been fixed with the DFI and its current bios ? Will there be a bios fix soon ? (Sorry, did not hv the time to test that yet...:( )

Any update on the external PHY SATA controller problems beyond 240 Mhz?

Is it "unsolvable" or fixable by new chipset version/revision only?

Any word on if this cold boot or reboot issue with high fsb with the DFI S754 board has been fixed?

And if I understood it correctly, a solution is to always power down and then turn off the power from the power supply by the switch or removing the power cord?

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Originally Posted by OSKAR_WU

Currently there are two overclocking issue in NF3 250/250GB/Ultra Chipset ...

1 . External PHY SATA is useless once HTT clock > 240 MHz

Solution : No solution yet ...

2 . HTT clock PLL register is powered by stanby voltage , which means after you power down the system , the HTT clock register will remain the same before power down ... If you use low cpu ratio and high FSB combination , the board may fail to boot in next power up ... Ex : 3400+ cpu OC to 300 * 8 , in the next power up , CPU frequency will be 300 * 11 = 3300 mhz immediately

Solution :

1 . Always clear stanby power good signal to make HTT clock back to 200 mhz in every power up , but some stanby power good keeped funciton can not be used

2 . Always turn off stanby power after you powered down the system

3 . Use Mobile CPU instead of Desktop version

4 . Use Spread Spectrum Register to program HTT clock , which is not stanby powered keeped ... but it will cause other problem ...

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that's not true. My EpoX can do a lot more and that's without any issue you specified above. I've seen this EpoX doing 375HTT with two 76Gb Raptors without a glitch.

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Originally Posted by QuadDamage

that's not true. My EpoX can do a lot more and that's without any issue you specified above. I've seen this EpoX doing 375HTT with two 76Gb Raptors without a glitch.

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Which SATA ports are you using?

The NF3 250 has 4 native SATA ports, of which 2 require an external PHY chip and the other 2 do not (the PHY is built in). The SATA ports that do not require the external PHY have no OC limit. Odds are those are the two ports you are using. Have you tried overclocking while using the other SATA ports?

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Originally Posted by QuadDamage

that's not true. My EpoX can do a lot more and that's without any issue you specified above. I've seen this EpoX doing 375HTT with two 76Gb Raptors without a glitch.

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There is no external PHY chip on 8KDA3+ ...

there are 6 SATA connectors on my mobo : 4xSillicon Image and 2xnVidia RAID. Tried heavy clocking using both chips and always two drives without any issues, actually i always use SATA ports these days and so do most of the peeps i know and none of them reported any issues so far. I'm kinda confused here.

Ok guys,

the Epox provides the raid solution thru the Silicon I chip, BUT - the connection is via PCI-bus("fully outsourced and independent"), which in case of o/c remains stable due to the AGP/PCI fix...

For others, like the MSI K8N Neo Plat and the DFI, the "half-outsourced" solution is still controlled via the Nvidia chip ("native S-ATA") and therefore uses less cpu-power BUT is more vulnerable to stability issues whilst o/c !

This is at least what I understand from all the discussions people had in several forums and my personal experience with the MSI and the DFI...

OK, I wasn't familiar with the Epox implementation. :doh:

To sum up, NF3 has 2 sets of SATA ports, 1 set that OCs well and 1 that doesn't. Epox only implement the NF3 set that OCs well and then added a PCI solution for the other 4. Other manufacturers (e.g., MSI, DFI) implemented both NF3 sets and thus have one 1 set of ports that does not OC well.

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Originally Posted by GreyBeard

OK, I wasn't familiar with the Epox implementation. :doh:

To sum up, NF3 has 2 sets of SATA ports, 1 set that OCs well and 1 that doesn't. Epox only implement the NF3 set that OCs well and then added a PCI solution for the other 4. Other manufacturers (e.g., MSI, DFI) implemented both NF3 sets and thus have one 1 set of ports that does not OC well.

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i'm using sata ports 3, 4 and so far no issues. which one's are more likely to have problems? 1,2? or 3,4?

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Originally Posted by trans am

i'm using sata ports 3, 4 and so far no issues. which one's are more likely to have problems? 1,2? or 3,4?

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None. Both nVRAID and SI are locked and therefore will not cause any issues at hi-fsb clocks. I don't know about MSI but having a lot of hard time with there sucky and faulty boards i assume there's a possibility that there SATA implementation (and dozen other things) aren't implemented properly.

if 3,4 are by the AGP slot methinks they be okay since on vnf-250 those are the only ones and I was up to 300+ on there. Will be pluggin in drives tomorrow/Sunday and seein where I go at about 350+

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Originally Posted by QuadDamage

None. Both nVRAID and SI are locked and therefore will not cause any issues at hi-fsb clocks. I don't know about MSI but having a lot of hard time with there sucky and faulty boards i assume there's a possibility that there SATA implementation (and dozen other things) aren't implemented properly.

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QuadDamage, you are talking about the Epox board, Trans Am is referring to his DFI board which does have one good OC pair and one bad OC pair.

The Sata pair by the AGP slot should be the good ones on the DFI.

As to numbering, different companies number differently. MSI numbering is not the same as DFI - confused Wes Fink at AnandTech in his DFI review.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OSKAR_WU

NF3 250/250GB/Ultra Chipset has two internal serial ATA controller , but only one of them has build in PHY interface ...
The other one controller needs an external PHY chip ...

Each controller has two serial ATA port ...

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Oscar or anyone,

please clear this for me.

Internal SATA controller in nForce3 chipset has its dedicated "bus", correct (I mean the internal SATA controller is not tied to PCI bus) ?

What about the one with external PHY SATA controller ? Is this controller tied to PCI bus ? or does it have its own dedicated bus as well ? I mean if this external PHY SATA controller (Marvell, in case of DFI board) is tied to the PCI bus, I don't understand much use of it. :confused: Because when it's in use, they can quite heavily stress, and saturate PCI bus resulting in overall system slowdown. (Am I missing something? )

Thanks.

You may be on to something.. I've noticed while runing any 3d benchmark or gaming that the screen studders alot.. It usually happends at the begining of a new test.. but also happends in the middle as well.. Kinda like its loading off the raid and its causing the pausing. Sounds like that could be caused from the load from the raid controller.. I'm using the internal raid ports by the AGP on my DFI NF250GB board.

I'm not too sure that there is a external raid controller since i think the marvell chip is just a bridge between the 3,4 sata ports to the chipset.

I'm using a new ATI X800XT and i cant stand the studdering/pausing thats happening and i hope to find the cause by the end of the day.

I planed on swaping out the card for my old ATI 9800XT to see if its just the card but now that you bring that up i'll also try moving my raid to the other ports just to make sure then destroy the raid and try single drives again.. If it still happends then i'll swap the DFI out and install the Epox again and see if it still happends.

I wish i could just find a fast trouble free MB... I was hoping this was it but this studdering prob and the fact that it seems to be a miricle if the built in nic to connect..Keeps sayin unpluged over and over and over. Sometimes it will work on bootup but most times it seems like i have to wait like 20 mins for it to work.

It would be stupid to have to buy a raid card and a nic just to use this board when i could run the Epox and not have these probs at all.

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Originally Posted by GreyBeard

QuadDamage, you are talking about the Epox board, Trans Am is referring to his DFI board which does have one good OC pair and one bad OC pair.

The Sata pair by the AGP slot should be the good ones on the DFI.

As to numbering, different companies number differently. MSI numbering is not the same as DFI - confused Wes Fink at AnandTech in his DFI review.

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The more I hear about this board, people are having problems with sata 1 and 2. I moved my raid stripe directly from my vnf3-250 to my DFI with no problems, but sata 1 and 2 didn't recognize the drives, but 3 and 4 did. Ports 1 and 2 are just not happening? Is anyone using 1 and 2 without any problems?

In order for me to get the 3,4 ports to see the raid channel i had to enable ACPI or APCI. cant remember which it is now.

Oskar, thank you very much for that inside information. Very much appreciated. :)

What is your exact position at DFI? Lead designer? Always loved the ABIT boards before. But nowadays they are not the highlights, they used to be. :(
sry for OT. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Goldlocke

Oskar, thank you very much for that inside information. Very much appreciated. :)

What is your exact position at DFI? Lead designer? Always loved the ABIT boards before. But nowadays they are not the highlights, they used to be. :(
sry for OT. :rolleyes:

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that's cu'z Abit's mastermind who created many great products has switched lane to DFI....

Oskar_Wu (super DFI engineer :bows: :bounces: ) found out that while the direct nvidia NF3 SATA ports (you know, up by the AGP slot :D) OC nicely, the other 2 optional ports that use the marvell external phy (usually below last couple of PCI slots, look for 2 SATA w/ marvell chip nearby) go funny after 240 HTT :mad:

Do we have anyone that has run into this on other NF3 boards?
(Both 754 or 939 Nvidia?) - Just to expand upon and confirm that this is a chipset and not board level?

(This is where OSKAR is supposed to step in and say 'Of course I tried this on some (whispers) competitor boards and yes it happens there also :cool: ).
Until he sees this and says that, any other people to expand these findings?

This info in reference to specific brands would maybe save alot of people grief to know this in advance :shrug:

This post has already (HTT vs poweroff) saved me grief, and will save me more when I install windows on SATA ports 3 & 4 (by agp). Would like to share that w/ others.

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Originally Posted by mad mikee

Do we have anyone that has run into this on other NF3 boards?
(Both 754 or 939 Nvidia?) - Just to expand upon and confirm that this is a chipset and not board level?

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The MSI Neo Plat 754 also has the same problem with 2 ports OK for OCing and 2 that are not OK for OCing.