NFC - S3 Chassis (100% aluminum, ITX, and made in America)

The last several posts gave me a bunch to think about. I am going to be working with Pudget systems over the next month to have them test out the chassis. They won't necessarily be influencing design but they build a ton of systems and will be able to help me think through any errors that might cause a user unnecessary difficulties.

Once that is done, it will be time to find funding and put them into production. If any of you have loaded friends in the music industry, now is the time to speak up. :)

nice to hear the chassis might be affordable :)

IMO you might as well do a kickstarter and start official "beta" discussion threads with detailed pictures on every friendly hardware site. doesnt matter if the feedback from posters is good or not, as long as they are talking about it. set the kickstarter to have as modest a monetary goal as possible, and make all the sponsorships except the very lowest one be credits toward buying the final case. use forum feedback to set the optional monetary milestones, where more money = more requested features and options.

Will have to keep my eyes on this. Looks like a perfect replacement for my HTPC that has gradually been migrating into larger and larger form factors due to the annoyance factor of tiny cases. Very nice.

Yes please.

Every single one of your designs always make me swoon with excitement.

It is a beautiful case and more importantly it is a case which has clearly been designed to look good as part of a high end AV system.

The only companies doing this as well as you are Hdplex and Wesena. I have an Hdplex 3 and based on that I have a few comments.

1.For an HTPC the most likely source of noise is the optical drive and crucially vibration. How that is mounted and whether there is any anti-vibration or dampening is important. In my AV kit I have a wonderful Sony Blu ray player, but in quiet sections of movies the player is clearly audible. It maybe as simple as some silicon to isolate the drive from the case mounting. A similar point is that how the drive locks into the mounting cage is important - screws are fine but with laptop style slim line drives the mounting screws tend to be tiny and not that good at gripping. Make some special screws up with some rubber washer and a large head.

2. Cable management. Neither Wesena nor Hdplex have any. It is a pain because good cable management makes a big difference in low air flow conditions.

3. Similar point but my experience of Picu-PSU and similar is that they lack any form of cable sleeving - just put some black sleeving on it will simplify a lot.

4. Is there any place on front of case for IR receiver so you can use a remote control?

5. Would much prefer a tray mounted optical drive to slot mounted which are difficult to find and not cheap.

Nice design!

However:

1. External USB Bluray drives >>>>>>> ALL.
You can use them for Mac.
Also, having an external USB Bluray rewritter you don't need to buy several internal drives if you have multiple computers. Just plug your external rewritter where you need.

2. I would put some USB 3.0 connectors on the front.

3. You should make a version without GPU slots. A lot of people use APUs with integrated IGPs as HTPCs so there's no need for extra slots.

4. Pls, mesh a part on the motherboard's side panel in order to make the heat to escape from the CPU's backplate.

hey, any update on this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geo

hey, any update on this?

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+1. I've been looking at mini-itx cases recently and this looks awesome.

Looking really good ! Been facinated with mini-ITX systems but they haven't been powerfull enough for gaming untill recently.
I've tried to make a monolithic but small case like that from scracth 3mm alu but my limited skill and handtools never netted me anything, lol.

I've been wondering why nobody made a powerbrick powerfull enough to run a decent gaming setup, since the PSU takes alot of room.
The silverstone Sugo etc. have been able to fit in gaming gear for a long while, but imo it's way too big & bulky for mini-ITX.

I was pleased to see that the new 670GTX without the stock cooler is only 17cm long, so the size of a mini-ITX board capable of running
1080p quite easily. Silverstone has nice SFX psu's that will run 680GTX etc. Few more years and I'll finally be able to run 2560x1600 games with
a console sized stylish & minimalistic gaming puter <3 ....I hope :)

I was wondering how you've done the power supply ? A modded 160XT Pico PSU and a modded power brick ?
How do you connect a dedicated graphics card to a pico, I know it's been done. Im guessing it involves making
some additional soldered cables and stuff.

Was looking at some gaming laptops the other day, Eurocom Panther for example had a 300W + power brick,
and it's running a quadcore and 7970m crossfire or 680M SLi configs. I know they are not as powerhungry as their
desktop counterparts but still draw some juice.

It's just that nobody has made one for a mini-ITX chassis, the Pico seems to be the most powerful thing out there.
Doubt it would run my Z77E-itx, i5 3450S and 670GTX setup that im trying to shove into a Streacom passive case.

So far my best bet is to modify a Silverstone 450SFX or buy an Athena power 400W flex atx PSU.

mini-itx is the future, and im looking forward how your project goes :up:

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. I have been obsessing over several projects, including this one, and I let many things fall off my plate...

I face two major roadblocks with this project:

1. Defining my customers.

My goal for the S3 was not to compress extreme gaming hardware into as small a box as possible. I have another project for that, and companies like Digital Storm, Cyber Power, and Falcon Northwest have done this in 2012. I had hoped to beat them to the punch...but oh well. My goal was to find the hardware that pushed out great graphics to 1080p TVs and Monitors--and make THAT as small as possible. The hardware I have been using in the S3 chomps down Skyrim, Civ V, Crysis 2, Far Cry 3, and other modern titles at this resolution. The goal was not to be excessive--but find what was necessary then go over that mark.

...unfortunately the kind of people who are interested in boutique, high-quality chassis are the kind of people who demand excessive hardware. I've met with a bunch of people in 2012 who keep crushing my willingness to invest in this project because they all want huge GPUs or liquid cooling. CES was also disheartening in that regard. From everything I have heard I think I need to re-evaluate everything I have been told and work on something for longer cards and heavier duty PSUs.

2. Controlling Costs

This is what I have been working on in the past several months. I want a chassis that is high quality, but is affordable. When I say affordable I do not mean cheap...but the S3 was looking to scale down to $432 (chassis alone!) in runs of 100 and that is just ridiculous. I have had several manufacturers laugh at this estimate and claim they can make the box for 35 bucks, and then give up a month later or not return my calls. In the meantime I reworked the design to the S3 "mini" which still supports dual expansion cards (although smaller). This really isn't a replacement for the S3, but rather a stepping stone refining the customer (people looking for moderately powerful machines to drive their TVs).

This year I fully intend to launch a mini-itx chassis or bust--likely they will be heavily subsidized (by me!). At this time it looks like the S3 Mini might be what I launch with...and it will disappoint many people I am sure. Hopefully from it I can get some direction and insight, however.

As soon as I have REAL, hard information for you guys I will let you know.


SINCERELY THANK YOU! You all have been great--posting here negatively or positively helps, and to hear so much encouragement about something I am truly passionate about is incredible. <3


Some technical info:

I do indeed have my own Pico Variant built by the engineers at Mini-Box. I can't give specifics because we are still working out licensing, patents, and all that jazz. I can say that the 160XT is incredible and can far exceed its peak load of 200 watts, but heat does become an issue. My hint to people wanting to build their own mini systems is the control heat through custom heat pipes or other soldered sinks. The power brick is what is the real challenge to overcome...so many high voltage bricks are utter crap and cause system crashes and burn up after fifty or so hours. I said this before but I have gone through dozens and dozens of bricks finding one that was going to work for me...and I had to eventually have one modified by the supplier.

I HIGHLY SUGGEST working with the first two generations of the Xbox 360 brick for you custom guys out there! It is extremely well built and can peak at over 300w and run (without melting) at 200-250 continuously (which is enough to run some heavy duty hardware). You can find them on ebay for 12-15 shipped these days. You have to modify the head, obviously, but you can do it easily with Radio Shack parts.

Thanks again!

-NFC

It occurred to me that I never showed you guys the inside:

http://i.imgur.com/NnmWOAll.jpg
(Some of the support pieces are not in that photo, please understand why I can't disclose them yet).

S3 Mini:

http://i.imgur.com/tTUaaIql.jpg

Comparison (bad shot I know) S3 mini and S3's backs are even:

http://i.imgur.com/ic9FNHVl.jpg

NOTE that the S3 Mini is unfinished and has some slight changes and standard dressing to go through.

Nicely done, but will it run Crysis?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NFC

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. I have been obsessing over several projects, including this one, and I let many things fall off my plate...

I face two major roadblocks with this project:

1. Defining my customers.

My goal for the S3 was not to compress extreme gaming hardware into as small a box as possible. I have another project for that, and companies like Digital Storm, Cyber Power, and Falcon Northwest have done this in 2012. I had hoped to beat them to the punch...but oh well. My goal was to find the hardware that pushed out great graphics to 1080p TVs and Monitors--and make THAT as small as possible. The hardware I have been using in the S3 chomps down Skyrim, Civ V, Crysis 2, Far Cry 3, and other modern titles at this resolution. The goal was not to be excessive--but find what was necessary then go over that mark.

...unfortunately the kind of people who are interested in boutique, high-quality chassis are the kind of people who demand excessive hardware. I've met with a bunch of people in 2012 who keep crushing my willingness to invest in this project because they all want huge GPUs or liquid cooling. CES was also disheartening in that regard. From everything I have heard I think I need to re-evaluate everything I have been told and work on something for longer cards and heavier duty PSUs.
Thanks again!
-NFC

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I've following this for a while now and glad you posted an update. at this point i think you should define your customer and not the other way round.

Start with an Indigogo or Kickstarter campaign - make your case for 1080p gaming machine + HTPC with the smallest footprint that could hide behind TV look part of one's AV equipment. I'm sure there is great demand for such a thing out there. you could also speak to these guys who built a case from scratch and now have a indigogo campaign going on. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1717132

IMHO this is exactly kind of innovation in form factors Desktop / PC badly needs.

I myself am not looking for a gaming/htpc box, rather a thin workstation running VMs that i can carry around/ through airports for work :) the S3/S3 mini would be perfect for me with a few minor mods :)

I love that m1 case; thank you for bringing it to my attention. I'm going to be referring people to now. I'm pretty sure the plan at this point is to make some minor changes to the S3 mini, crowd fund a reasonable run to gauge interest, and follow up with the S3.

I'm going to have my prototypes done at the end of this week and I'll try to post an update.

Thanks.

Fine, Crysis Warhead. Will it run Crysis Warhead?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NFC

I love that m1 case; thank you for bringing it to my attention. I'm going to be referring people to now. I'm pretty sure the plan at this point is to make some minor changes to the S3 mini, crowd fund a reasonable run to gauge interest, and follow up with the S3.

I'm going to have my prototypes done at the end of this week and I'll try to post an update.

Thanks.

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cant wait for the prototypes. looks like you funded the prototypes yourself :/. note that the M1 case funing is for a prototype now not the case.
anyways, start threads on OCN and [H] and see if PC technews sites can provide reporting on Kickstarter / Indigogo campaign.

again, cant wait!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth

Fine, Crysis Warhead. Will it run Crysis Warhead?

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Ok I laughed. :)

I knew that you were looking. :up:

God this is a beautiful case
I've been looking for something this compact for a HTPC build

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NFC

1. Defining my customers.

My goal for the S3 was not to compress extreme gaming hardware into as small a box as possible. I have another project for that, and companies like Digital Storm, Cyber Power, and Falcon Northwest have done this in 2012. I had hoped to beat them to the punch...but oh well. My goal was to find the hardware that pushed out great graphics to 1080p TVs and Monitors--and make THAT as small as possible. The hardware I have been using in the S3 chomps down Skyrim, Civ V, Crysis 2, Far Cry 3, and other modern titles at this resolution. The goal was not to be excessive--but find what was necessary then go over that mark.

...unfortunately the kind of people who are interested in boutique, high-quality chassis are the kind of people who demand excessive hardware. I've met with a bunch of people in 2012 who keep crushing my willingness to invest in this project because they all want huge GPUs or liquid cooling. CES was also disheartening in that regard. From everything I have heard I think I need to re-evaluate everything I have been told and work on something for longer cards and heavier duty PSUs.

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people are stupid. at the maximum, all you need to support is: 10.5" titan, 3770k with aftermarket heatsink, asus z77 itx, 3.5" hard drive, 2.5" ssd, and some margin for external expansion like a usb hard drive. this covers almost all capabilities, and yet it doesn't require very much. it certainly doesn't require pointless water cooling or mutant size video cards. even the dvd drive is a luxury IMO, and I'm switching to using external USB optical drives now, because they are never used.

and even if you supported nothing but the video card, a cpu, and a 2.5" drive, you'd still cover almost everybody. extremists can make their own case... you can't please everybody. the system except the video card uses 150W max, and the video card is 250W max, and this is with margin that is 400W max and there are ways to power that in a small case. and a case that supports this will also make a good 100W system with a picopsu.

you can even get rid of all internal expansion and just add a third PCI-E slot, and let people add their SSD there with a 2.5" expansion bracket. remove all the features you want as long as it gets the job done: fast small computer, or whatever you view your requirements to be.

I hope you dont get discouraged listening to too many people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bamtan2

people are stupid. at the maximum, all you need to support is: 10.5" titan, 3770k with aftermarket heatsink, asus z77 itx, 3.5" hard drive, 2.5" ssd, and some margin for external expansion like a usb hard drive. this covers almost all capabilities, and yet it doesn't require very much. it certainly doesn't require pointless water cooling or mutant size video cards. even the dvd drive is a luxury IMO, and I'm switching to using external USB optical drives now, because they are never used.

and even if you supported nothing but the video card, a cpu, and a 2.5" drive, you'd still cover almost everybody. extremists can make their own case... you can't please everybody. the system except the video card uses 150W max, and the video card is 250W max, and this is with margin that is 400W max and there are ways to power that in a small case. and a case that supports this will also make a good 100W system with a picopsu.

you can even get rid of all internal expansion and just add a third PCI-E slot, and let people add their SSD there with a 2.5" expansion bracket. remove all the features you want as long as it gets the job done: fast small computer, or whatever you view your requirements to be.

I hope you dont get discouraged listening to too many people.

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Bat, sounds like you have a few ideas, man.

this is something i'm looking for in startpost for a mod project.

Ram a GTX680 classy in there with a Evga M-itx, fast ssd like revodrive or so, nice mods etc...

Did big and extreme now i whant to make as small as possible with hybrid TEC cooling and big power in small form.

http://i.imgur.com/umxxeLCl.jpg

Hey guys and gals, quick update.

I have a max build-out planned which will get into the meat and potatoes of all the combinations of stuff you can cram into the S3 Mini. I'll be doing some benchmarks--synthetic are easy but I want to do some real world stuff too--especially showing power draw and bust some myths there. Comments and tip are certainly appreciated.


I have the final revision of the S3 Mini in small run production right now. Manufacturing in small quantities with the highest grade material and talent (our MNF usually builds spaceshuttle and aircraft parts) is quite expensive, but it is a stepping stone. Help is welcome too in this regard if you want to send me an email . Included in my run are the full-bandwidth PCIE ribbons and the 200w PSUs.

I hope to have cost information soon, including on custom powdercoat color options.

In the meantime I have modeled up the S3 Mini in Sketchup for y'all to play with. Many people are expecting the system to house long cards, and I am sorry that this will not be the case for this box. I have two more boxes planned after this one, but in the meantime I suggest checking out the ultra sexy NCASE.

http://i.imgur.com/tHtz9l7.jpg
SKETCHUP FILE DOWNLOAD

The S3 Mini is...mini. I can't wait to show you guys what it can do when properly built-out!