When i grab the Nexus SX, ill post a comment on it installation and stufff.
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When i grab the Nexus SX, ill post a comment on it installation and stufff.
What is the max gph you would recommend for a 1/2" setup???
There is no max, I however would watch th ePSI and not go over like 25PSI.
But, you would be spending over $150 for a pump of that power.
You might want to edit the TEC PSU section man
generally a PSU runs most efficient at 75% load so you would need 34A on the +12 for a 226W tec and that will keep the PSU at it's best performance levels...
The more the better because it spends less time in the block so less heat is carried in the water. It dosn't really matter, but there has to be some flow.Quote:
Originally posted by D3Railur
What is the max gph you would recommend for a 1/2" setup???
How much of a drop in Temp could I expect to get from watercooling over Air?
With out using water chillers. Just straight water cooling.
TIA
With an Alpha cooler? Quite a bit, I should think. 10 degrees, at the least, I'd guess.
I would only see a "10 or so degree" difference if I went to water?
hmm..
Thanks for info.
maybe so, but when I went to watercooling from a vantec aeroflow i went from 2300mhz (1700+ DLT3C) to 2600mhz, and it was way more stable
Major update... I think this is much more objective, informative, and accurate.
Props on the rewrite, I din't read it word for word, (a bit long for my taste) but I think you've done a much better job of remaining objective, yet still getting the info acrossed.Quote:
Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
Major update... I think this is much more objective, informative, and accurate.
Some of your statements are sure to raise a few eyebrows, and while I don't agree with everything you've said, Revision 2.0 is a worthy update.
:toast:
What don't you agree with? I'd be happy to explain my reasoning about them.
Quote:
Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
What don't you agree with? I'd be happy to explain my reasoning about them.
Well without re-reading and taking notes, I would disagree on your choice of WaterWetter, The statement regarding Swiftechs 676, Sub 120mm rads, and the use water blocks for the NB.
But again, as a whole you've done well on the rewrite.
I'll lay out the facts about the Water Wetter. On the issue of the 676's, I trust rocketmanx's opinions on that, and he found better performance with a single heater core than a pair of those. http://www.overclockers.com/articles778/index05.asp for my opinions about sub-120mm radiators. A C/W of 0.070 is bad for a radiator. 105 (CPU at 90W, and pump at 15) watts X 0.070 = 5.6 degrees above ambient. I would consider that bad. What about waterblocks for the NB? They restrict your flow, and they don't gain you anything over good air. Nothing at all. The stability is the same, and the temperatures are about the same, or higher with water. I've layed out options if they are still convinced they want to watercool it.
No offense but it still needs work.
The 676 rad isn't actually that bad at all. Coupled with high CFM 120s it's more than enough to handle tec use.
Bad advice on the Meanwell. It's still the best fit for most folks. Running a 226w TEC at 13.5v is the optimal sweet spot which doesn't over power most water cooling systems. The meanwell runs 13v +/- 10% and fits the bill perfectly.
Not good to call people who get kits "morons". Not only is this in poor taste, but it wrong. For some users a kit may be the best choice. Not everyone has the same value system as you do, so your opinion is narrow minded. Those who do not have the time or inclination to peice together a good system can get good performance from a kit ala Swiftech or Dangerden.
All in all very biased advice. Some real good stuff in there too. You just have to wade through all of your opinions as to what is good/bad based on your personal value system.
One other point, although I advise folks not to bother cooling the NB, to say there is no gain is false. A year ago maybe nothing could be gained, but the NF2 and Canterwood/Springdale chipsets run damn hot and do benefit from water cooling. Is it worth it...maybe...maybe not.
Remember, a good author lays out the facts and then lets the readers decide what to do for themselves. The opinions based on the personal value system of the author should be left out.
"If you can customize the thing, with good components, and it will be cheaper, go for it. The Flowmaster XT is the best example of this." I'm not referring to that kind of kit. I layed out my reasoning on the Meanwell, and shroomers advice seems accurate, as you should always use a more powerful PSU than you need. Give me proof on the 676, that's better than the advice I've already gotten. In fact, Swiftech has gotten rid of support for it, which implies that something is wrong with it on some level.
The 676 is not the best Rad, but it does do a decent job, I've done builds with both and a single 676 was not the "Terrible cooler" you noted, and performance was not far from the Procore. The unique size and shape of the 676 offers some options that the Procore does not, to call it a "Terrible cooler" is simply NOT true.
WaterWetter was not formulated for low temperature systems, performance gains due to relieved surface tension is questionable at best. It does offer anti-life and ant-corrosive qualities, as do other formulations, however to refer to WW as being the best choice/performer for additive is still very much in debate. As such portraying it as "Best" is misleading.
Cooling of the NB, is also dependent on the hardware, and the stress level of said hardware. Plenty of documented instances of cooling beyond air capability netting substancial gains. Not saying that in all cases a passive solution would be surpassed by anything more, just that to say H2O cooling of the NB hampers performance? Again not true and depends to heavily on circumstances.
I would also agree with mdzcpa, your threatening tones would be best omitted, as would the term "moron".
Meanwell are also top quality supplies, they may not be the least expensive, and as do ANY PSU they do produce heat, however PROPER air circulation takes care of the heat quite nicely, and the ease of installation makes it a clean option.
You may also want to mention that most PSU's are sold rated at peak output, which is typically a substancial amount more then RMS rating. Another interesting point regarding High current DC supplies you fail to mention is the fact that very few are actually rated for 100% DUTY CYCLE @ rated current , Most of the high current Budget supplies that cost less than $100 fall into this category. Honestly I've not seen a quality PSU over 20 amp @ 100% duty cycle for under $200. Some of the better ones will run 24/7, however they are not rated for such. Some names which can be put in this categtory; Workman, Tripplite, Pyramid, RadioShack, etc. Plus the Slew of other PSU' sold and marketed under many names for typical shoppers in this class.
Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
I'm not referring to that kind of kit.
That was not made clear by your following comment I quoted from your guide:
One more thing: DO NOT BUY A KIT! I WILL TRACK YOU DOWN AND BRAND "MORON" ON YOU IF YOU BUY A KIT!
Hmmm.
I layed out my reasoning on the Meanwell, and shroomers advice seems accurate, as you should always use a more powerful PSU than you need.
Your guide clearly downplays the positive attribute of being able to put the MW in a bay space, and overplays the heat issue. Placing the MW in the top bay with a vent in the case works perfectly and allows the best of both worlds.
I respect shroomer as I know him from around the community. And I mean no offense. But, one person's opinion does not constitute conventional wisdom. An overkill on the PSU, may, or may not be beneficial depending on the application.
Give me proof on the 676, that's better than the advice I've already gotten. In fact, Swiftech has gotten rid of support for it, which implies that something is wrong with it on some level.
Holy cow...where do I start with this boatload of manure. Lets see:
First we'll look at Swiftech's product catalog noting that the current Heavy Duty 22501 series kit includes the 676 rad. . Further details regarding the 676 in this application can be found HERE .
Next, if you do a search, you'll find many folks that have had great success with the rad. For better proof you can check out my Quiet Power TEC Upgarde article HERE the results speak for themselves. For more current stuff, the 676 was plenty enough cooling to get my TEC'd P4 3ghz to 4ghz last April when that was still a very rare occurence. You can see that
HERE
I guess I'm sorry I even commented. But, some good advice to remember if your gonna praise or flame a product is that you need concrete performance data. Again, word of mouth. or a few opinions here or there, do not constitute conventional wisdom.
Sorry if I offended you.
You seem to only quote from others Experience? How much of your recomendations is actual hands on experience? Using an overated Supply is only needed for one instance... The PSU you purchased was not rated for 100% duty cycle @ suggested max load. A quality PSU will not require over rating PERIOD.....Quote:
Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
I layed out my reasoning on the Meanwell, and shroomers advice seems accurate, as you should always use a more powerful PSU than you need.
LOL, here again you seem to only reference what you've read, granted your source of information may have valid input, but to call something Terrible without Supporting facts is poor practice at best.Quote:
Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
Give me proof on the 676, that's better than the advice I've already gotten. In fact, Swiftech has gotten rid of support for it, which implies that something is wrong with it on some level.
I can tell you mdzcpa's opinion is highly valued by more then oner member here, there is a reason for that, perhaps you should investigate further.
Your argument of Discontinuation because of some short coming is SERIOUSLY flawed!
First, I'd like to point out that almost NONE of my stuff is based upon personal experience. That causes a bias, and I can't possibly rate everything there is. Second, this is the ONLY information I've been able to get from Swiftech's site about the 676 radiator: "Slim profile radiator assembly." They don't even claim anything about the performance. Arguing that if you put high CFM fans on it, it will be decent is like arguing that stock cooling is a good cooler, if you put a tornado on it... I believe that I have made the additive sound too important, it probably makes very little difference, and so I will change that part. I admit, I know very little about power supplies, but I still do not agree that Meanwells are as great as everyone makes them sound. Read the next sentence after my initial comment about kits. I will not stoop to the level of reading uncalibrated, highly inaccurate, possibly biased reviews from google. In fact, I couldn't find any reviews that reviewed only that radiator... Most of them used kits. Once again, I did not know that about power supplies. The first thing wrong with the 676 is its 3/8" fittings. The second thing, that stems from the first, is its high pressure drop. Third, you need two fans to move air over the entirety of the radiator, and fourth, it does not have a large amount of surface area. Fifth, it takes up a LOT of room, for not a lot of performance, and sixth, it's expensive! That's the only stuff I can factually prove, but I would imagine more.
You didn't offend me, indeed, I find it difficult to be offended on the Internet, but I like hard facts, and I don't mind discussing things.
Edit: I also said that the discontinuation IMPLIED something wrong with it, I didn't state that as a fact.
All right, screw it. What should my TEC power supply section say? (Incidentally, if you're watercooling, you're modding, as far as I'm concerned)
LOL...you didn't even check those links I gave you did you. You need to completely retract your discontinuation comment....it's obviously not discontinued. I even gave you the links. I can't do all your research for you:)Quote:
Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
Edit: I also said that the discontinuation IMPLIED something wrong with it, I didn't state that as a fact.
There is plenty more info on the Swiftech site about the 676 rad...lol. You must not have looked to hard at all. But, again, I'm not going to do your research for you.
And why is 3/8" inherently bad? I know plenty of folks running great 3/8" ID systems. Bigger is not always better. A well balanced system is more important than sheer size and flow rate.
Can you please provide proof of the high pressure drop of the 676? Can you point to some reliable testing? I'd like to see that. My experience, and that of quite a few others others is actually to the contrary of what you are saying. Some hard facts would be good.
Your third and fourth points entirely contradict one another. If it takes two 120mm fans to move air over the entirety of the rad, than obviously it has some good surface area.
It also takes up less room than any other twin 120mm rad on the market, and can be fit into a case easier too.
Btw, I never said it had to have high CFM to be "decent". Try rereading my post again. I said with the use of high CFM fans it could easily handle TEC duty. That's better than many rads out there.
As Karnivore already said, the 676 is not the best Rad, but it does do a decent job, I've done builds with both and a single 676 was not the "Terrible cooler" you noted
You can argue all you want that you beleive your "opinions" are good. But be aware that this is XS, and as such, there are many folks here who have had years of water cooling experience. I'd do a little more research before going off. You obviously didn't even know that Swiftech was still using that rad in their heavy duty kit. What else did you get wrong?
No offense, but some humble retractions and adjustments to your article would avoid the embarrassment you've continued to heap on yourself here.
I can appreciate your attempt at a good water cooling guide, but you need to be more open minded as to the hardware choices people have depending on the specific applications.
I thought the guide was very well thought out. I think it was stickied for a reason. The guide was made to inform the general public about the comparison's of water cooling components. All those who criticize alpaca, do you feel justified for ruining someone's effort? Forums need informative and unlazy people like Alpaca to put forth the effort to educate newcomers.
I liked the guide and would like the guide to be put back up.
Props Alpaca
The last thing I intended on doing was "ruining" someones effort. That couldn't be further from the truth. The guide did contain some very good info.
But providing questionable guidance based on heresay alone, and calling users "morons" didn't seem like the kind of guide that would be XS caliber.
I would have rather seen the guide amended and improved over time based on user input rather than taken down. When presented with facts that would aid in enhancing the quality of the guide, the author chose instead to be defensive and argumentative. I am sorry he took offense at the comments. He clearly said no offense would be taken and that he like to discuss the hard facts. I guess that wasn't true after all:confused: