[Review] Round 2 Overall Comparison Thread - Core i7 Waterblocks

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10-14-2009, 06:45 AM
shazza

Okay folks ... a request that we stay on topic about block performance, and testing methodologies.

No need for this to get into an argument about forums, or who adopted what block first.
10-14-2009, 09:27 AM
rge

Quote:

Originally Posted by CedricFP

Waiting on Vapour's Apogee XT review :D

Yeah, I was hoping to see what Vapor or others got before I took off to Hawaii for rest of this month...but have to wait and see it when I get back...I need to get out in real world anyways, wife is giving me the look to get off computer and finish packing:D.

I know they are going to be very close, I have 8 mounts of XT now, most interesting thing I saw was the ratio differences between core temps with different blocks. I have way over 30 mounts with heatkiller, playing with different tims/mounting pressures, etc, and all my core temps are in ratio of, core 0 and 2 ~ same, core 1 is 1-2C higher, core 3 is 3c lower

Now with swiftech XT block it is core 0, 1, 3 all ~ same, and core 2 is 3-4C higher, and always the same ratio through all 8 mounts of it. I have no more time to play with it, or wife will kill me, need to be getting ready....I assume that is one block bowed more than other? but some interface difference... It is not mounting pressure, I tried varying pressure on HK have gone 1/2 turn all way down to end. Interested to see if others see any change between cores.
10-14-2009, 02:49 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazza

Okay folks ... a request that we stay on topic about block performance, and testing methodologies.

No need for this to get into an argument about forums, or who adopted what block first.

Thanks Shazza :)

Apogee XT review is delayed due to the Gigabyte compatibility issue (I use a Gigabyte board). Fortunately the problem was rectified quickly by Swiftech and I have a new base here already and testing is underway :)
10-14-2009, 03:42 PM
Linuxfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Thanks Shazza :)
Apogee XT review is delayed due to the Gigabyte compatibility issue (I use a Gigabyte board). Fortunately the problem was rectified quickly by Swiftech and I have a new base here already and testing is underway :)

I've got to give it to Swiftech, their customer support is the best!
Got a GTZ block a week ago and one of the mounting screws was too small for the threads. They got right on it and sent me a new backplate and thumbscrew after I contacted them! :up:
10-14-2009, 11:07 PM
scamps

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Thanks Shazza :)

Apogee XT review is delayed due to the Gigabyte compatibility issue (I use a Gigabyte board). Fortunately the problem was rectified quickly by Swiftech and I have a new base here already and testing is underway :)

Could you please post a pic of "old" and "new" base plate?
10-14-2009, 11:11 PM
Vapor

Swiftech's renders:
http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...%20revised.jpg
10-15-2009, 02:05 AM
scamps

Thank you! I´ve got a GB (X58 Extreme), too :rolleyes:

... and already had same problem with the Heatkiller (where I had to grind the edges)
10-16-2009, 12:40 AM
woffen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Thanks Shazza :)

Apogee XT review is delayed due to the Gigabyte compatibility issue (I use a Gigabyte board). Fortunately the problem was rectified quickly by Swiftech and I have a new base here already and testing is underway :)

Will you have any results this weekend? Just changed my order from a HK 3.0 to a Swiftech XT so eagerly waiting to see the results:)

Thanks btw for all your testing Vapor:up:
10-20-2009, 05:14 PM
Vapor

Apogee XT review is live! Working on the forum version now :)

Results are already updated in this thread, and somehow the Sapphire Rev.A results snuck in there too :lol:
10-20-2009, 10:22 PM
Salamndar

Thx Vapor for you amazing work as always! :up:
10-20-2009, 10:37 PM
Mech0z

Thats one restrictive block :o makes you wonder if the HK will beat it with a lower pressure pumps? Like the EK or XSPC res pumps.
10-20-2009, 10:41 PM
Vapor
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mech0z

Thats one restrictive block :o makes you wonder if the HK will beat it with a lower pressure pumps? Like the EK or XSPC res pumps.

The XT actually pulls away at low pumping power...quite a bit too. It's the most resilient block I've tested so far to reduced pumping power (the Sapphire Rev.A is the 2nd most resilient).

Look at the left end of this chart:
http://vapor.skinneelabs.com/i7/Roun...sults25WEP.png
- Very High Pumping Power: All three MCP355 pumps and the D5 are on at full speed--this has a very similar PQ curve to a pair of RD-30s at 20V.
- High Pumping Power: Two MCP355s with EK V2 tops are on at full speed. The other two pumps are off.
- Medium High Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at full speed. The other three pumps are off.
- Medium Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at full speed and setting 5. The other three pumps are off.
- Low Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at minimum speed (~7.7V, ~2450RPM). The other three pumps are off.
- Very Low Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at minimum speed--setting 1. The other three pumps are off.
10-21-2009, 08:39 AM
Manicdan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor

The XT actually pulls away at low pumping power...quite a bit too. It's the most resilient block I've tested so far to reduced pumping power (the Sapphire Rev.A is the 2nd most resilient).

Very High Pumping Power: All three MCP355 pumps and the D5 are on at full speed--this has a very similar PQ curve to a pair of RD-30s at 20V.
High Pumping Power: Two MCP355s with EK V2 tops are on at full speed. The other two pumps are off.
Medium High Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at full speed. The other three pumps are off.
Medium Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at full speed and setting 5. The other three pumps are off.
Low Pumping Power: A single MCP355 with XSPC V3 top is on at minimum speed (~7.7V, ~2450RPM). The other three pumps are off.
Very Low Pumping Power: The stock D5 is on at minimum speed--setting 1. The other three pumps are off.
dude Medium is what most of us have for high speed, thats nuts. i run mine at setting 3-4 to lower power consumption and deal with the extra .5C gains
10-21-2009, 08:49 AM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0Pe

do you have results from the full copper version of the heatkiller also? :) or did i miss it:D

the XT is a sexy block IMO. glad to see it performing so well compared to the LC version of the heatkiller. from what i´ve seen other places it doesnt beat the full copper version though:/ but 1c difference isnt anything i would choose a block for lol

Copper top tests are in the planning stages for the HK and the Supreme. Nothing final yet, but after seeing the metal top help the GTZ, I figure it's worth a few hours of my time and the extra cost to pick up those parts to see if there's any gain for those two blocks :)

The XT is unequivocally better than the HK3.0 LT (the HK3.0 LC isn't in the same league...different price points and a couple of degrees worse [+ the secondary deficiencies of the HKs]) and I'm guessing it will be for the HK3.0 Cu as well. But that's just a guess at this point :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manicdan

dude Medium is what most of us have for high speed, thats nuts. i run mine at setting 3-4 to lower power consumption and deal with the extra .5C gains

A D5 at 3 is really more like my "low" setting actually :eek:

Maybe I have misnamed my pumping power settings...all I know is that at the last second before posting my first installment of this roundup, I renamed "Insane" to "Very High." All things considered, maybe I should have slid the names up one notch :stick:
10-21-2009, 02:13 PM
Stealth42o

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0Pe

1c difference isnt anything i would choose a block for lol

I would. I could care less how it looks. Ascetics comes in a far second to performance.
11-05-2009, 08:50 PM
Vapor

All updated!

Trimmed this thread's results down a bit and am working on advanced overall comparison that will include the results of all the modded versions of the blocks (have more coming up). Also included will be best mount comparisons, mounting repeatability analysis, and a mathematical look at flow and pump dependence.

It might be a little overwhelming :lol:
11-06-2009, 04:27 AM
Martinm210

Awesome!

I really like the pump power chart, that puts everything on the level in a meaningful way general users should understand. Not sure you can or want do this, but maybe even a simple additional shorthand descriptor under the pumping levels like this might curb some misunderstandings of pumping power(one persons high is another's low, etc.):

Very Low
(D5 Set.1)

Low
(DDC3.2+Top@7.7V)

Medium
(D5 Set.5)

Medium High
(DDC3.2+Top)

High
(2xDDC3.2+Top)

Freaking NUTS!:shock2:
(3xDDC3.2+Top+D5 Set.5)

You might also make a note about your stronger than typical radiator/fan setup so people with a unlimited budgets don't forget about heat dump and start mixing the NUTS!:D level pumping powers with less than compensating radiators setups.

Glad to see they are still making small but incremental advancing improvements. Thanks for all the insane amount of work I'm sure this took:clap::clap:
11-06-2009, 07:35 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

Awesome!

I really like the pump power chart, that puts everything on the level in a meaningful way general users should understand. Not sure you can or want do this, but maybe even a simple additional shorthand descriptor under the pumping levels like this might curb some misunderstandings of pumping power(one persons high is another's low, etc.):

Very Low
(D5 Set.1)

Low
(DDC3.2+Top@7.7V)

Medium
(D5 Set.5)

Medium High
(DDC3.2+Top)

High
(2xDDC3.2+Top)

Freaking NUTS!:shock2:
(3xDDC3.2+Top+D5 Set.5)

I played with some labeling like that, but in my initial implementation, it was too busy.

There were other flaws with that charting too....use of 2nd hand pressure drop data, no idea of the actual wattage of the CPU (I should try your calorimeter/bucket test when I get a chance), and a disambiguation of charted data to "real world" data. I try to include the written table with every (group of) instance(s) of the chart, but I agree I need something in the chart itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

You might also make a note about your stronger than typical radiator/fan setup so people with a unlimited budgets don't forget about heat dump and start mixing the NUTS!:D level pumping powers with less than compensating radiators setups.

Glad to see they are still making small but incremental advancing improvements. Thanks for all the insane amount of work I'm sure this took:clap::clap:

I kind of already do that...in the full collection of results, I show what temperatures are for core vs. water (what's posted in the first post), core vs. air and for core vs. air (with 1/3rd the radiator ability of mine). Here's a screenshot from my skinneelabs write-up:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/751/capturewm.png

And yeah, this has taken a lot of work....I'm dreading the Fuzion V2 and the alphacools (their 3 main blocks use identical bases but some have purported quality issues, so I'm going to test all the bases on all the blocks, so it's really going to be 9 blocks in actuality).

And if you think my 4 pump setup is "Freaking NUTS:shock2:" then Testbed 3.0 will probably blow your mind :D
(my Dwyer RMC-144 maxes out at 7GPM, I don't feel like I'm getting money's worth right now ;))

Anyway, thanks for stopping by Martin, always great to see you around these parts :)
11-06-2009, 11:35 PM
WaterFlex

Wow, Vapor! You do a great job! Swiftech XT looks like the best WB on market :up:
11-06-2009, 11:43 PM
WaterFlex

VAPOR, can u get this one?
Never heard about it/
11-06-2009, 11:51 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterFlex

VAPOR, can u get this one?
Never heard about it/

Performs identically to this one: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/heatkillerlt775.html

Finished my HK3.0 + Copper top testing two nights ago and I can say that with absolute certainty. Write-up will be done in the next week or so, have to get testing done on a couple other blocks in that bunch, "Heatkiller and EK Supreme Revisted: Metal Tops and Modifying the EK Supreme"
11-07-2009, 01:48 PM
JoeBar

^^

I sense better results than HK 3.0 LT... :)
11-07-2009, 02:05 PM
Vapor

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBar

^^

I sense better results than HK 3.0 LT... :)

For which part? :p:
11-07-2009, 02:08 PM
JoeBar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

For which part? :p:

Stop teasing and get down writing the review... :D

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