Test report Apogee GTZ vs. Koolance 350 vs. HeatKiller 3.0

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05-19-2009, 01:54 PM
eth0s

+5 on the cpu-only test. But how about using some quieter fans next time?

Nice rig you got there BTW, I luvs me those 2 pumps in series, pure sweetness.

Also I love my GTZ; so thx for selling it to me. (I still love my old GTX and my old MCR320 too.)

When are we gonna see a new Swiftech radiator design? I want to see a world-beater. I know you can do it. C'mon Gabe, I promise I'll buy at least 2!
05-19-2009, 02:00 PM
BrokeDown

Gabe you got anything for this, please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokeDown

Gabe, did you notice any bowing of the board with the k350? I just installed mine the other night, and although the springs are pretty compressed, I still have a little room to move down, but I don't want to damage anything by overtightening. I have them as far as they will go when applying light/moderate pressure on the thumb screws.
05-19-2009, 02:14 PM
LinusTech

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokeDown

Gabe you got anything for this, please?

You really want support from the President of Swiftech on a Koolance product?

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused:
05-19-2009, 02:21 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mech0z

Guess we will just see a more bling GTZ :)

Did you use a backplate for the HK3.0 couldnt figure out if you just stated there wasnt one with the basic package.

Back plate has no impact on performance. only safer, and depending on how it is designed, provides more convenient install
05-19-2009, 02:36 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokeDown

Gabe you got anything for this, please?

Yes Linus, I will be glad to provide advice based on observation:

Observation: Unless error or omission on my part,

1/ I didn't see specific torque instructions in the Koolance manual, like I saw in the HK for example (20 to 25NM recommended, with specific heights in millimeters so that user can measure, and apply appropriate tension)
2/ There is no spring tension specification provided by the manufacturer (lbs/in) for the springs, so it is not possible to ascertain what force is placed on the processor.
3/ Finally, there is no mechanism provided by the manufacturer to prevent over tightening of the screws

I suppose you could call and ask them to clarify what they mean by (I quote their manual): " DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN"
05-19-2009, 02:41 PM
Sadasius

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Yes Linus, I will be glad to provide advice based on observation:

Observation: Unless error or omission on my part,

1/ I didn't see specific torque instructions in the Koolance manual, like I saw in the HK for example (20 to 25NM recommended, with specific heights in millimeters so that user can measure, and apply appropriate tension)
2/ There is no spring tension specification provided by the manufacturer (lbs/in) for the springs, so it is not possible to ascertain what force is placed on the processor.
3/ Finally, there is no mechanism provided by the manufacturer to prevent over tightening of the screws

I suppose you could call and ask them to clarify what they mean by (I quote their manual): " DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN"

That is pretty big of you to give such constructive criticism. I know myself I am kind of a callous business person and would have played dumb and said 'Yeah it's easy as pie and you can really crank down on her and don't worry about your motherboard as it increases your folding power!' :rofl:
05-19-2009, 02:51 PM
BrokeDown

Thanks Gabe. I suppose Dean could make an appearance and tell us what he means.

So far my temps are decent, but could probably use a remount.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus@ncix

You really want support from the President of Swiftech on a Koolance product?

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused:

I was asking for feedback from a product he himself tested. :rolleyes:
05-19-2009, 03:14 PM
Sly Fox

Hopefully whatever Gabe has lined up for us improves flow on the GTZ.

Biggest thing that would make me go for the HK 3.0 over GTZ right now is that it just flows better.

One day, I'll get a second DDC3.2 and it won't matter, I'll go for whatever performs best with high flow/pressure, but for the time being I value my Apogee GT so much because it flows so well. :up:

Keep up the good work Gabe, I love your stuff, only product I haven't enjoyed is my MCRES, and well... It's just a res, life goes on. :rofl:
05-19-2009, 04:10 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mech0z

Well we have seen alot of tests of the HK3.0 and it seems like its a clear winner, but not here so I cannot think this is abit biased, but I dont think it would be as it would hurt reputation more than it would gain, allthough it dont seem like you used a backplate with the HK3.0 (Not sure how much this matters) and the KT350 is known for its solo capeabilities which is prolly why NaeKuh wants a test without GFX. But I must say I am tempted to get the GTZ just because of the mounting mechanism :)

please read http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=11
05-19-2009, 04:28 PM
Martinm210

Just wanted to say another thanks for testing. I really wish more manufacturers would provide more comparative results like this. Granted you have to take anyone's results with a grain of salt as there are always variables or system specific affects we simply cannot always control, but it's refreshing to me to see the testing regardless. The more testing, more test results, and more details on test methods we acquire, the more we learn....

Kudos for contributing some testing results...thanks!!
05-19-2009, 04:33 PM
LOUISSSSS

gabe, as the head hancho of the GTZ, it'd be great if you can make a video (youtube) with what you think would be the best mount for the lga775.

i firmly believe that mounting is a huge determining factor for the way a block will perform.
05-19-2009, 04:33 PM
Darth_Penguin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

Just wanted to say another thanks for testing. I really wish more manufacturers would provide more comparative results like this. Granted you have to take anyone's results with a grain of salt as there are always variables or system specific affects we simply cannot always control, but it's refreshing to me to see the testing regardless. The more testing, more test results, and more details on test methods we acquire, the more we learn....

Kudos for contributing some testing results...thanks!!

Couldn't have put it any better! The more data we can crunch on the more we can learn.
05-19-2009, 04:48 PM
ColonelCain

Thanks for the testing gabe, BUT

I thought that the HK 3.0 backplate has a noticeable effect on performance? Am I mistaken?
05-19-2009, 05:36 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonelCain

Thanks for the testing gabe, BUT

I thought that the HK 3.0 backplate has a noticeable effect on performance? Am I mistaken?

why would it?

The stock Ci7 already has a backplate behind the socket, making the assembly very rigid. An additional backplate ONLY prevents the motherboard from flexing and possibly damaging traces in case of over tightening. At proper tension (25NM = 55 lbs), which in my own experience is optimum for this block, a back plate is preferable for safety and convenience only.

The problem that many people here at XS tend to sweep under the rug, is that many (majority IMO) users do not have a caliper to adjust spring tension. so, inexperienced ppl could just crank the screws to the max, and end up damaging the board.

Oh, and BTW to be even more specific: I have now tested both with and without back-plate and observed no difference.
05-19-2009, 05:40 PM
Sadasius

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

so they'll just crank the screws to the max, and end up damaging the board.

It's what I call 'the clap'. It's when they tighten it so much it folds the motherboard and claps them in the face...:rofl: ....er wait it might be something else.... I am so confused!:shrug:
05-19-2009, 05:43 PM
Haltech

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonelCain

Thanks for the testing gabe, BUT

I thought that the HK 3.0 backplate has a noticeable effect on performance? Am I mistaken?

its reversing the inlet from the pump to the block that increases the performance on that block. Some claim a 180 rotation, but from tests ive seen on other forums, this did nothing to improve the performance on a Quadcore.
05-19-2009, 06:32 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

why would it?

The stock Ci7 already has a backplate behind the socket, making the assembly very rigid. An additional backplate ONLY prevents the motherboard from flexing and possibly damaging traces in case of over tightening. At proper tension (25NM = 55 lbs), which in my own experience is optimum for this block, a back plate is preferable for safety and convenience only.

The problem that many people here at XS tend to sweep under the rug, is that many (majority IMO) users do not have a caliper to adjust spring tension. so, inexperienced ppl could just crank the screws to the max, and end up damaging the board.

Oh, and BTW to be even more specific: I have now tested both with and without back-plate and observed no difference.

Yeah the contact pattern is the REAL determining factor.
05-19-2009, 06:48 PM
sirheck

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

If the only change is the material, the performance will be the same.

Yeah i agree, but, would it make a difference(or even a measurable one)
if cooling fins were added to the outside of the block?
:shrug:

Kinda like anti-kink coils can actually help lower temps given enough airflow
is pushed over them? Though again this is probably not measurable.
05-20-2009, 08:18 AM
DeanB

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokeDown

Gabe, did you notice any bowing of the board with the k350? I just installed mine the other night, and although the springs are pretty compressed, I still have a little room to move down, but I don't want to damage anything by overtightening. I have them as far as they will go when applying light/moderate pressure on the thumb screws.

The springs used have a constant of 1.4kgf/mm... we recommend between 5-6mm of compression so about 8.4kg (or 18.5lb) of force per post.

But there are other factors that can come into play, especially pin grid orientation :)
05-20-2009, 08:41 AM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirheck

Yeah i agree, but, would it make a difference(or even a measurable one)
if cooling fins were added to the outside of the block?
:shrug:

Kinda like anti-kink coils can actually help lower temps given enough airflow
is pushed over them? Though again this is probably not measurable.

Umm, absolutely not. And I discovered that the delrin block is different than the copper topped block which explains the difference.
05-20-2009, 09:21 AM
skinnee

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

And I discovered that the delrin block is different than the copper topped block which explains the difference.

Could you explain the differences please? :shrug:
05-20-2009, 10:44 AM
silverphoenix

I really think the 350, GTZ, and supreme scale better than the HK if you can provide the pressure and flow. So for someone with a multiblock single pump look the HK may be better while a single block and or dual pump setup might benefit from the more restrictive blocks.
05-20-2009, 12:49 PM
MpG

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Umm, absolutely not. And I discovered that the delrin block is different than the copper topped block which explains the difference.

By "Delrin block", are you talking about the LT, or the cheaper LC?
05-20-2009, 01:29 PM
Leeghoofd

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Koolance] Dean

The springs used have a constant of 1.4kgf/mm... we recommend between 5-6mm of compression so about 8.4kg (or 18.5lb) of force per post.

But there are other factors that can come into play, especially pin grid orientation :)

Will dig into it tomorrow Dean ;) Tim mailed me the same thing, I didn't change the orientation as I thought it wasn't required as the mobo was tested positioned flat and not upright. Will update the review with new results

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