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And the last, unfourenetly crap pic showing all the gunk, crap, oil and everything you can find in gasoline was in the injector (its like tar and i could wash it out only by flushing the injector with acetone... on the begening before i discovered whats inside it didnt want to even flow but after i blowed through it with air (before cleaning) suddenly a drop so very thick oil / tar dipped out on me- it was cleaning time :D
Oh and here's a desert for u guys, a snapshot of my friends Radek system running :
http://www.antyksklep.com.pl/FC/Test5/IMG_5975.JPG
wow, crazy!
Yes .. crazy, but it's realQuote:
Originally posted by La1kr0diZ
wow, crazy!
I can't speak English very well, so berkut has posted photos of my system ...
I guess - me and berkut are the first in using car injectors in refrigeration systems
Very wild Berkut. Is that a run-of-the-mill fuel injector you're using? Also, how are you going to construct the rest of the evaporator around your base?
:toast:Quote:
Originally posted by radek_marko
Yes .. crazy, but it's real
I can't speak English very well, so berkut has posted photos of my system ...
I guess - me and berkut are the first in using car injectors in refrigeration systems
Its pretty much run of the mill tachyon. Its an Escort RS Turbo cold start injector.
Unfortunatly (as I posted previously) these retail new @ around £100, so the chances of using them as a legitimate item may not be ideal for a lot of people, unless you know of a scrapyard with lots of old RS Turbos in it :)
about the nitrous oxide solenoid deal, i dont think they would work, because they aren't designed to wok over extended periods of time. In both my N.O.S. brand Cheater kit, and my Nitroux Express Stage 6 kit, the manual says do not enguage the solenoids for longer than 17 seconds or they will burn up. So if its firing 500ms then off 500ms, yeah, u get where i'm going.
Plus nitrous soleniods work by having a plunger lift up that lets the nitrous oxide through the opening, and the opening is about 1/3 inch in diameter, which would defintly not work with freon. right?
What are the advantages of using the injectors vs. a standard capillary tube setup?
Tachyon:
Simply that you would be able to perfectly meter refrigerant flow to load conditions to get optimum temps all the time. (Thats the theory anyway)
How do you guys wire up the injector/how are you currently metering the refrigerant flow through the injector?
Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown :)
whats that stuff growing off the copper tubbing? looks like mold;) jk nice work man ne eta on the main project now?Quote:
Originally posted by berkut
Oh and here's a desert for u guys, a snapshot of my friends Radek system running :
http://www.antyksklep.com.pl/FC/Test5/IMG_5975.JPG
can you explain how the injector is interfaced with the controller and how you rigged it up? btw why is the liquid line frosted?
how can you control throttle of the injector when your computer is not off? if it is connected to your main computer there would be no way to control it on startup becasue the computer wouldnt be able to function, do you have some sort of circuit made? im sure a 555 timer woud be good for somthing like this
variable throttle interests me greatly, please share what youve done in detail if you could.
ok, answers:
I got mine for free ;] And they cost about 10$ here on junk yardsQuote:
these retail new @ around £100
Heavy subcooling ;] The system wasnt correctly calibrated and it flooded the suction line and compressor a bit but fourtenetly Radek didnt kill his compressorQuote:
btw why is the liquid line frosted?
Ill answer that for Radek:Quote:
can you explain how the injector is interfaced with the controller and how you rigged it up?
The interface is the LPT port, Radek also build a controller wich is made of few tranzistors/mosfets, diodes and resistors + few caps, its very easy to make but i dont have a plan of it @ the moment and i dont know if Radek agrees to post it right now.
Radek also wrote a program to controll the injector and he runs it off a laptop, ill use that way also.
We use laptops to controll everythingQuote:
how can you control throttle of the injector when your computer is not off
To be honest we would like to work on it a lil so you guys will have a ready "manual/ walkthrough" how to make these systems.Quote:
variable throttle interests me greatly, please share what youve done in detail if you could.
Today ill be mounting my system (R22/R22) cascade and ill test how it works... it has a very high throughput so i thing it will work preety nice even with 1.5- 2 bar of pressure (aldough its designed for 6.5 bar nominal)
And about pressures and the injectors not opening up: the injector Radek uses is a Bosh designed for 3 bar but it works preety nice with a 11 bar pressure
Ok, Radek was first to use a injector, im second ;]
The system works INCREDIBLY good, exept a leaking oring its simply hard to belive that w/o any vacuum before running it worked...
The injector works @ 5V w/o any problems (Radek had to overvolt his Bosh from 12V to 22V) and closes with out any problems even with a -65C SST (i think i can assume that the needle and injectors head was @ -60C ?), when it closes its completely sealed, no leaks with a 4 bar head pressure (later i turned off the I stage to see how it works with a higher head pressure- also perfectly)... My system was filled with R22 on the I and II stage, kindoff dramatic but worked ;] Tomorrow ill mount the rest of the system...
Nice work berkut! Looks nicer then Radek`s setup!
Waiting for the temps now! :)
Thats a test setup, the evap is a hollow type... My "main" evap is being constructed and tomorro ill try to find a 2nd injector like that one... ~monday ill buy some cap tube, untill friday i should have my flex hose cutted and R23 @ home ;]
I dont see any sensors mounted any where
How are you (or will be) controling Superheat?
currently its all about making it work, when everything works - ill be happy and start making everything else, now ill be using a pulse generator / laptop to generate impulses...
If the injector seals the 'bridge' (for lack of a better word) between the high and low side, how quickly does the high side pressure rocket? Fairly quickly I should imagine? You wont want to keep the injector closed for too long right?
]JR[
nope, it acctually lowers a little as theres no load on the HX and when the temp lowers the SCT is also lower = lower pressures
but unfourtenetly there are problems with the freon flowing back from the cap tube i use to supply the injector so if you arent pulsing it a little all the time it takes freon about 1-2s to flow to the injector, but i think that a thinner, ~1.5mm id cap tube should help as there would be less capacity and thus quicker response
theres still some work left even with such simple things :\
nice work.
How to yo plan to mount it?
It looks very long and stiff.
it sounds like you will have to use that circuit (555 timer it sounds like) so that your computer is independant from cooling. no sense in having an extra computer just to control the throttle on pulldown. what is possible is using the circtuit on pulldown and somehow overriding the circuit once the computer is on and control everything from software on the local computer. i know the 555 timer puts out variable pulse depending on a resistance, such as an adjustable pot, this would be a nice thing to have to vary the throttle depending on load and desired temperatures. keep it up, i might go this route for my next setup.
I wont controll by pulsing it... It will be more like this:Quote:
it sounds like you will have to use that circuit (555 timer it sounds like) so that your computer is independant from cooling. no sense in having an extra computer just to control the throttle on pulldown.
Pull down:
Fully opened untill it reaches a certain temp and "freezes" up the whole system
Operation:
When the evaps are fully flodded i only open it once a few moments for a longer time to fill the evap so its nicelly filled up- no pulsing
Shutdown:
Injectors opened so the pressures can gently equalize in the system, filling the relief tanks... After a while in this state they are turned off and the soleneoid opens to fully equalize pressures and keep ot that way