AMD RV790 & RV740 in 40nm in March 2009

got this from techpowerup:

It will be a current-generation GPU built on the next generation 40nm manufacturing technology. There is a lot of speculation surrounding the RV790's specifications, with some of the more plausible ones hinting it has two additional SIMD clusters (960 SPs) and a total 48 texture memory units (TMUs). Both the RV740 and RV790 are slated for March, there's also a little indication of AMD using the occasion of CeBIT for its announcements and product launches.

full article can be found here: http://www.techpowerup.com/

and the source of this information is here: http://www.hardware-infos.com (german)

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Originally Posted by munim

Can you explain your post for the uninitiated? What is "pad limited" etc?

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All the chips have pads/wires on the backside that are soldered to the boards they are attached to. As the chips get smaller, you can put only so many of these wires on the backside of the chip, limiting input/output/power. So, for RV770 with a 256-bit memory controller let's say you need 400 pins. On 55nm the size of the chip gives you enough space that you can fit all these 400 pins but if you keep the logic(transistor) count of the chip the same but shrink to 40nm, you will have much less physical space for these pins and may only be able to attach 300 pins. So this requires either a smaller memory controller or making the chip larger, ie adding more logic, to get enough surface area for all the pins.

I hope that all made sense :shrug:

TSMC or TFC?

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Originally Posted by shiznit93

dominance?

GTX260 costs the same as 4780, is just as fast in real games people actually play instead of crap like call of juarez (minimum framerates often get ignored), overclocks better, uses less power, has better drivers (ati is always releasing hotfixes, still no game profiles), better looking anisotropic filtering, is quieter and cooler. ATI just now got a north american partner with lifetime warranty.

Obviously Ati does it with a much smaller gpu and nvidia's margins on the GTX are crap but from a consumer point of view the GTX series is just as good in price/performance and imo better when you consider reliability and support.

I guess you are going to bring up the 4870x2 but I don't consider multi-gpu viable.

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LET THE WARS BEGIN! :ROTF:

It took Nvidia how many months to get the GTX 260 to be what it should have been from the very beginning? :rolleyes: Even if it had been such a great card from the beginning, it is far from complete, or any, Nvidia dominance for 2008 - thus it makes your point useless! ;)

End it. Now.

I can't believe that guy went and edited his post to "further own" me. After I explained the history of my comment...

I mean that, I literally can't. Because it didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Sly Fox

I can't believe that guy went and edited his post to "further own" me. After I explained the history of my comment...

So sad...

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I didn't do that, the edit was before I saw your response. I was actually gonna post "doh", letting you know that I hadn't realized you were being sarcastic, but I didn't want to contribute any further to a nv vs ati war I had no intention of starting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shiznit93

I didn't do that, the edit was before you responded. I was actually gonna post "doh", letting you know that I hadn't realized you were being sarcastic, but I didn't want to contribute any further to a nv vs ati war I had no intention of starting.

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Well I'll take your word for it, I was just going off the post times.

In any case, the idea of any company having "dominance" is a bit laughable in itself. The tech industry shifts so often and so dramatically... You can never really predict the future with 100% accuracy.

40nm Nvidia / ATI should both be nice, but after 55nm Nvidia, I'm going to give ATI a bit more benefit of the doubt.

I often think of something else to say and then add it into my post without checking if the person I quoted has responded, it's a bad habit I know...

Ati won the AA war in 2008 and so far is still beating Nvidia in it. Just watch how fast GTX 295 crumbles in front of 4870x2 when you go for 8xAA or higher in modern games.

Hmm when's Intel coming out with their thingy again?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

All the chips have pads/wires on the backside that are soldered to the boards they are attached to. As the chips get smaller, you can put only so many of these wires on the backside of the chip, limiting input/output/power. So, for RV770 with a 256-bit memory controller let's say you need 400 pins. On 55nm the size of the chip gives you enough space that you can fit all these 400 pins but if you keep the logic(transistor) count of the chip the same but shrink to 40nm, you will have much less physical space for these pins and may only be able to attach 300 pins. So this requires either a smaller memory controller or making the chip larger, ie adding more logic, to get enough surface area for all the pins.

I hope that all made sense :shrug:

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Surface area isn't what would be limiting the chip but the perimeter.

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Originally Posted by situman

Hmm when's Intel coming out with their thingy again?

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Late 2009 was the initial target, so sometime in 2010.

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Originally Posted by LiquidReactor

Ati won the AA war in 2008 and so far is still beating Nvidia in it. Just watch how fast GTX 295 crumbles in front of 4870x2 when you go for 8xAA or higher in modern games.

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Uhmm not so simple. There is less memory on the 295, so it's more likely to run out of FB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LiquidReactor

Ati won the AA war in 2008 and so far is still beating Nvidia in it. Just watch how fast GTX 295 crumbles in front of 4870x2 when you go for 8xAA or higher in modern games.

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Yep, because we all know, nearly everyone plays at 2560x1600 with 8xAA :rolleyes:

"FINISH HER!"
-Shao Kahn

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Originally Posted by Sr7

Uhmm not so simple. There is less memory on the 295, so it's more likely to run out of FB.

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In normal cases it wouldn't be a big disadvantage, but nVidia's memory management is less optimized compared to ATI's. The initial amount used is more, which is why their 256-512MB cards run out of steam fast.

???5870x2???:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Carfax

Yep, because we all know, nearly everyone plays at 2560x1600 with 8xAA :rolleyes:

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Well no, but when it comes to quad SLI/CF you could assume that.

Although in brand new graphically demanding games, both sets of cards fall apart at that res/AA... So it's almost moot.

I suppose you could say the X2 has an advantage in slightly older games at super high res/AA or something.

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Originally Posted by Macadamia

"FINISH HER!"
-Shao Kahn




In normal cases it wouldn't be a big disadvantage, but nVidia's memory management is less optimized compared to ATI's. The initial amount used is more, which is why their 256-512MB cards run out of steam fast.

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lol.. any evidence to back that up? sounds like a bit of an outlandish claim.

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Originally Posted by Martin.v.r

???5870x2???:rolleyes:

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Great, just beautiful :clap:

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Originally Posted by Sr7

lol.. any evidence to back that up? sounds like a bit of an outlandish claim.

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The B3D dudes have talked about it a long time before, IIRC during/before the G92 launch period.

It's hard to compare to ATI at that period because the 3850/70 were bad performers with AA on, and only AA would tax memory usage extensively enough to limit you to <1600x1200.


At raw speed tests it's harder to determine, but there are still cases where the 256MB on the 8800GT runs out first compared to the 3850.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...2/vsATI-qw.png

There are also cases where the 8800GT 512MB flat-out dies off at 1920*1200 8x AA while the 3870 still holds on, although not very playable. I think this one can be referred to in the Computerbase tests.

Yea, I remember seeing some tests where they measured video memory usage in the same games at the same settings with the same OS and processes, and ATI used less memory.

Dunno why that's hard to believe. It seems logical that Nvidia and ATI would have their own memory management systems, and I highly doubt they would both be
100% equally efficient.

Anyway, RV790 is Performance 55nm process, not 40nm.


RV740 is the sole 40nm chip for now. I'm not sure if 790 still actually exists or is just a sandbag pipedream.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carfax

Yep, because we all know, nearly everyone plays at 2560x1600 with 8xAA :rolleyes:

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Well %!@, if you don't need AA why do you even need to buy modern graphics cards for ?:confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macadamia

The B3D dudes have talked about it a long time before, IIRC during/before the G92 launch period.

It's hard to compare to ATI at that period because the 3850/70 were bad performers with AA on, and only AA would tax memory usage extensively enough to limit you to <1600x1200.


At raw speed tests it's harder to determine, but there are still cases where the 256MB on the 8800GT runs out first compared to the 3850.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...2/vsATI-qw.png

There are also cases where the 8800GT 512MB flat-out dies off at 1920*1200 8x AA while the 3870 still holds on, although not very playable. I think this one can be referred to in the Computerbase tests.

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Even if that were definitive proof of what you describe, it's been over a year since those products were introduced, and there have been many new driver schemes with new memory optimizations on both sides... This isn't an all-true fact of life written in stone though you describe it as though today you know definitively what's happening with memory usage.

All I'm saying is there are so many variables here, and since there are also architectural limitations contributing, it's oversimplifying to sit here and write about how one brand uses more memory than another.

1ghz so easy vmod probably not required

vmoded @ 1.1ghz easy

bring it amd! :clap:

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Originally Posted by Martin.v.r

???5870x2???:rolleyes:

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Where's that from?

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Originally Posted by hurleybird

Where's that from?

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Adobe? :ROTF: