Core i7 - a very bad investment for most people

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11-03-2008, 08:44 AM
NeedMoMegaHurtZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

That is what I have actually said.
All I have said in addition to that is that Core i7 is also sometimes slower, which has been proven by tests.

That the performance differences with Core i7 do not matter with practical gaming is the whole point of my thread.

I agree, it looks like it's sometimes faster, sometimes slower, on average about the same. Given the cost of entry, it's probably not worth it if you only game. However, some of the early multi-gpu tests show better scaling on the new platform with both ATI and NVIDIA cards.

You might want to change the title of the thread from "most people" to "most gamers", which is a more accurate description of what this thread is about.
11-03-2008, 08:47 AM
Wiggy McShades

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredpace

yah 8% - 10% better for 300% more ca$h :p:

well the core i7 cpu priced in the 300 range is outperforming a 1000+ core 2 quad, that doesn't seem like a terrible investment.
11-03-2008, 08:49 AM
Viss

Its new so we like it :D
11-03-2008, 08:53 AM
fredcoke

so yet again we are being ask to pay through the nose for this
we are talking about between $1200-$2000 for new kit
it is not that much beter than we allready have
i think that in 6 months it will be 25% less in cost
with this down turn we cant buy it at this price and they will be hard pressed to make the sales
11-03-2008, 08:55 AM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by loc.o

Its new so we like it :D

:clap::yepp:
11-03-2008, 09:03 AM
BenchZowner

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredpace

:mad:

P4 --> C2D was more nioticable here

Once upon a time... the processors were the limiting factor even in slightly GPU Limited scenarios due to some weaknesses of the processors and the chipsets.

But after the Athlon 64 and Core era, this is no longer a reality.

And of course, you're not comparing a "crappy" CPU against a brutal force CPU, you're comparing a very good CPU ( the Core 2's ) with a even better CPU ( enhanced if that's what you'd like to hear ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

That the performance differences with Core i7 do not matter with practical gaming is the whole point of my thread.

Everybody, in or out of "the know" knew that already.
Only some die-hard "overclocking/CPU helps in every scenario" fans didn't ( or didn't want to believe that ).
The way games work and are coded, no CPU can make a difference now when compared to a Core 2 Duo/Quad.
Let's say that Intel releases a real Octa-Core Nehalem or Penryn if you like, operating at 20GHz.
Do you think that it'd make your computer's gaming performance any better in real-life gaming scenarios ?
11-03-2008, 09:23 AM
NBF

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

That is what I have actually said.
All I have said in addition to that is that Core i7 is also sometimes slower, which has been proven by tests.

That the performance differences with Core i7 do not matter with practical gaming is the whole point of my thread.

Thats half true.

If you game with single GPU you may stick with Core2, but if you have a powerfull MultiGPU system, then core i7 is a must have.
11-03-2008, 09:23 AM
flegg

The big issue here is the wattage cap on the non-extremes. Whether its just on Intel MBs, or it is on all MBs but just not on the test models - can't find a definitive answer.
11-03-2008, 09:31 AM
Gunnz Akimbo

Do you has a bank?
11-03-2008, 09:45 AM
Katzenschleuder

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBF

Thats half true.

If you game with single GPU you may stick with Core2, but if you have a powerfull MultiGPU system, then core i7 is a must have.

I (and most other people) didn't buy SLI because I want to get 100 FPS instead of 60 FPS, but because I can run 1980*1080 4*FSAA 16*AF at 60 FPS instead of 1980*1080 0*FSAA 0*AF at 60 FPS.

Core i7 simply does not improve game performance in practice.
11-03-2008, 09:58 AM
Tonucci

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

I (and most other people) didn't buy SLI because I want to get 100 FPS instead of 60 FPS, but because I can run 1980*1080 4*FSAA 16*AF at 60 FPS instead of 1980*1080 0*FSAA 0*AF at 60 FPS.

Core i7 simply does not improve game performance in practice.

You are generalizing too much, there are games that cant be maxed with >30 min fps with just one card.

YOUR workloads may not benefit from Nehalen but there are many who does.

The nehalen sticky has many reviews showing big improvements in many games, the few who runs slower are the exceptions.

It has just released, so yes, it is expensive.
11-03-2008, 10:06 AM
rge

Quote:

Originally Posted by flegg

The big issue here is the wattage cap on the non-extremes. Whether its just on Intel MBs, or it is on all MBs but just not on the test models - can't find a definitive answer.

That is one thing I want to know as well. Reading toms review, seems to imply "it is hardwired into cpu", but who knows if it takes a bios to support it/activate it or not.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...em,2057-7.html
11-03-2008, 10:18 AM
Katzenschleuder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonucci

You are generalizing too much, there are games that cant be maxed with >30 min fps with just one card.

YOUR workloads may not benefit from Nehalen but there are many who does.

The nehalen sticky has many reviews showing big improvements in many games, the few who runs slower are the exceptions.

I don't see your point.

Nearly all games run more than 30 FPS or even 60 FPS with Core2.
Everything beyond this frame rate simply doesn't matter because the GPU is the bottleneck.
11-03-2008, 10:38 AM
damtachoa

I agree with you, Katzenschleuder! Core i7 are not good investment for games. Save Money for your next graphic card. I believe AMD will come out HD 5870 X2 soon.
11-03-2008, 10:38 AM
veedubfreak

Why did you title the thread "bad investment". All computer parts are a bad investment. You will never get an increase on your money, thus its a purchase. Just like a car, as soon as you drive off the lot you lose money. Computer parts are there for people to enjoy, so stop looking at it like its a home purchase. Computer parts are recreational spending for most people.
11-03-2008, 10:51 AM
sdsdv10

Quote:

Originally Posted by veedubfreak

Why did you title the thread "bad investment". All computer parts are a bad investment.

Agreed. Poor choice of words for the thread title, but a reasonable assesment of value of the new CPU to gamers...
11-03-2008, 11:01 AM
BenchZowner

Unless you're not making any money out of your PC, everything but a E2180, a cheap-a*s Asrock LGA775 board, a nVIDIA 8400GS, 2GB's of DDR2 value RAM, the cheapest 500GB HDD, a DVD+/-RW ( not Plextor :p: ), a Chieftec 350W PSU, a cheap computer case ( TA-8x entry level cases from Asus for example ), a M$ OEM Mouse & Keyboard set, is a bad investment.

Computers aren't investments, unless you're using them for your work ( and make money from ).
11-03-2008, 11:02 AM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdsdv10

a reasonable assesment of value of the new CPU to gamers...

:up:
11-03-2008, 11:08 AM
Brian y.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenchZowner

Unless you're not making any money out of your PC, everything but a E2180, a cheap-a*s Asrock LGA775 board, a nVIDIA 8400GS, 2GB's of DDR2 value RAM, the cheapest 500GB HDD, a DVD+/-RW ( not Plextor :p: ), a Chieftec 350W PSU, a cheap computer case ( TA-8x entry level cases from Asus for example ), a M$ OEM Mouse & Keyboard set, is a bad investment.

Computers aren't investments, unless you're using them for your work ( and make money from ).

hahaha......that is the sad truth about it all too.:ROTF:

Well said:up:
11-03-2008, 11:19 AM
DildePer

Quote:

Originally Posted by veedubfreak

Why did you title the thread "bad investment". All computer parts are a bad investment. You will never get an increase on your money, thus its a purchase. Just like a car, as soon as you drive off the lot you lose money. Computer parts are there for people to enjoy, so stop looking at it like its a home purchase. Computer parts are recreational spending for most people.

I think that's a very over-simplified view on things...

There are plenty of students(like myself) and other people with low income, who can't afford nothing but low-end or used parts for their rig.

So for example, purchasing an 6-series Core 2 was a great investment if you had a P4. Purchasing a Q6600 now is a great investment if you have Core 2 or lower.

Why?

Because chips like the first Core 2 and the Q6600 are great value, and will last you a long time, especially with the great overclocking in the picture.

So when you're forced to be very selective about your upgrades due to financial issues, purchasing a basically unsupported CPU at a horrible price/performance ratio probably isn't the best idea...
11-03-2008, 11:24 AM
GAR

I will hang on to my 4GHZ quad till 32nm comes, then i will upgrade.
11-03-2008, 11:36 AM
Leeghoofd

Isn't it all a bit to soon to judge like this... Intel is going into a new direction and things have to be adapted (way of OC'ing, new rams, maybe better implementation by game coders and programs,...)
Not everybody here's a gamer, I game too, but I fold, encode and bench for fun... and if I have to buy a new system, I7 could tempt me alot... but I'm awaiting some price drops on rams and hopefully mobo's... but 250 euro's for a high end mobo is doable to me...
This is a launch man, prices will settle ( hopefully we will get this financial crisis sorted as prices have gone mad here in Belgium, +30% on some hardware ) newer CPU's will appear, cheaper mobo's, better overclockability, etc...

I agree it could have been a revolution but it's more of an evolution , but give it time and the die hards will find the sweetspot(s) for sure...

And if you want to have the latest and the best, prepare to cash out : when core2 duo was launched not many could afford an E6600/6700 most users went for E6300 and E6400... and really for 300 bucks you get loads of power here... too bad it's DDR3 only...

I'm following GAR's motivation... with my current hardware I don't have anything to worry about and can easily wait till mid/end next year to step up... we are spoiled by so much powerfull hardware... thing is you have to ask a g33k to know what's best for your needs...
11-03-2008, 11:41 AM
MomijiTMO

Why are people so hung up on gaming? That is not where the real money is so you can't always expect a new architecture to be tailored for gamers and show drastic improvements. We knew all this before the NDA lifted yet people are still shocked. If you have a Wolfdale or Penryn there is no point upgrading. It is that simple.
11-03-2008, 02:23 PM
inCore

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO

Why are people so hung up on gaming? That is not where the real money is so you can't always expect a new architecture to be tailored for gamers and show drastic improvements. We knew all this before the NDA lifted yet people are still shocked. If you have a Wolfdale or Penryn there is no point upgrading. It is that simple.

Amen. :p:

People are arguing for the sake of arguing and being shocked because they want to be.
11-03-2008, 02:25 PM
zlojack

I'm hung up on gaming because that's what I do, but I'm not shocked or arguing :p:

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