The Importances of Standoff's on FC blocks.

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10-17-2008, 05:48 PM
MomijiTMO

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

and just not tighten it so tight that it warps?

Yeah that's how I was thinking but I mean I can only imagine how many people have stuffed their cards tightening the screws all the way down.
10-17-2008, 05:52 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Ok, call me crazy but... I see the significance of standoffs but can't you just mount a block WITHOUT standoffs and just not tighten it so tight that it warps? In any case, I'm sure I have some nylon standoffs to do the job perfectly for my 'non standoffish block' :D

Scott, problem is blown on XS.
Almost 1 a week. :T

I told ya you would be okey, but not many of us here have as much experience as you. :rofl:

Oh and the bending is always from the Mosfet/vreg cooler. Almost impossible to excape this one.

Watch. :D
10-17-2008, 05:56 PM
coolmiester

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Ok, call me crazy but... I see the significance of standoffs but can't you just mount a block WITHOUT standoffs and just not tighten it so tight that it warps? In any case, I'm sure I have some nylon standoffs to do the job perfectly for my 'non standoffish block' :D

For sure, you pays your money, you takes your chances!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Yup, like so:

http://www.dangerden.com/store/image...?1224294400173

:D

Precisely :up:
10-17-2008, 06:11 PM
jtf2

bowing of the blocks has always weirded me out,and i have made sure to not overtighten.
i think i will try and use some thicker small rubber washers-they will have a little give,but still be a stop for the screws.

i will try it out on a spare 8800 gts with an ek fc block
10-17-2008, 06:38 PM
Demthios

jtf2 let me know how that goes I'm currently looking for a block for the 8800GTS and was wondering this my self.
10-17-2008, 06:53 PM
Makubex_GB

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

XSPC can do it right for 99$ .... why?, Eddy, why? :shakes: I am seriously considering sending back my nickel FC's right now :( and I really REALLY don't want to have to :(

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7...870szf1.th.jpg http://img263.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Don't let yourself be fooled. I had one of these blocks and the standoffs are way too small. Your card will very easily warp with this FC block.

Kudos on making this thread, NaeKuh. All FC blocks MUST have standoffs of accurate length! :cussing:
10-17-2008, 07:21 PM
DeathWalking

Call me crazy, but wouldn't this sorta matter with motherboards, too? Like, MOSFET blocks, because they're at the edge of the board? I'd think really tightening down a NB block wouldn't be great, but it's in the center and stuff.
10-17-2008, 07:23 PM
jtf2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathWalking

Call me crazy, but wouldn't this sorta matter with motherboards, too? Like, MOSFET blocks, because they're at the edge of the board? I'd think really tightening down a NB block wouldn't be great, but it's in the center and stuff.

unlike most? vidcard blocks,nb,mosfet blocks are mounted with springs,nuts, and bolts,usually,and have a back plate also,which minimizes bending
10-17-2008, 07:26 PM
jc99

So dangerden is the only company that has the standoffs nailed down correctly?
10-17-2008, 07:35 PM
jtf2

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

Only ASUS blocks have backplates...

i stand corrected on that point:)
10-17-2008, 08:16 PM
NaeKuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc99

So dangerden is the only company that has the standoffs nailed down correctly?

koolance and evga have got them done correctly as well.

Cant speak for XSPC as i dont have any blocks from them. YET.
10-17-2008, 08:19 PM
Demthios

Anyone know if AquagraFX got it right??
10-17-2008, 09:33 PM
SNiiPE_DoGG

I have just sent this message to eddy:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

try number 2 (accidentally sent the first message >.<)

Hi Eddy,

I am the owner of 2 EK-FC4870 CF High Performance Water Blocks and there is an issue that has recently come to my attention regarding the design of these blocks. They are not milled including standoffs in order to prevent bowing when tightening the screws properly, thus causing a bend in the card. In concurrence with this thread on XS (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=205033) I request that you find nylon spacers of the appropriate size and send them out to every owner who requests a set for their waterblock(s). I assume from looking at you block designs that the standoff's would be of a uniform size, so it should be fairly easy to implement.

In the future it seems appropriate that your block designs use the PCB as the X-Y plane in the cad design; that way when the block is milled you can mill relative to the PCB and include the standoff spacing in the design.

I have told all XS members who own the block to send you a message saying "I would like a set of standoffs for <vgacardname>" they have seen a copy of the message I sent you and they all agree they would like a waterblock that doesn't warp their cards.

I request of EVERY XtremeSystems member who owns an EK Fullcover Waterblock to send the message

Code:

I would like a set of standoffs for <vgacardname>

to the contact us email system: here

thank you to all for all the people who do this, I hope we can make our waterblocks viable again. :yepp:
10-17-2008, 09:40 PM
AndrewZorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

seriously though, shouldn't the entire block be milled with steps measured from the start point of the PCB= X-Y plane; this seems like lazy/improper design IMO.
Give me the measurements of a card and I will CAD it up correctly :up:

REALLY

I've never used a full cover block, and after seeing all this card-bending stupidity I decided I'd never want one.

I could see it happening on some sort of universal full cover... and then adapting and including spacers... but if you are going to charge $100+ for a specialty part, that's only good for one card, why can't it be measured correctly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

nylon standoffs

are my favorite thing. Maybe it's just because it's the only thing of significance I can find locally, without ordering online.
10-17-2008, 09:43 PM
twwen2

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

I have just sent this message to eddy:
...

Very good Snipe, i'm on it!
10-17-2008, 10:02 PM
bigslappy

$750 dollar question = what size is that stand-off as in HOW friggin' thick is needed >> Damn i'll make my own !
says the guy about to mount a $150 block on a $600 plus Vid card >>> DD on a 4870X2
10-18-2008, 01:04 AM
tgm_of_xxl

Requested 2 sets of standofs for 8800GTS
10-18-2008, 01:34 AM
TI66ER

I am using an xspc razor full cover block on my 4850,and it is not warped.

sorry i have not got a better pic.

http://img.techpowerup.org/081018/loop.jpg
10-18-2008, 01:34 AM
Jiangxue

Eddy is SO going to be flooded! :rofl:
10-18-2008, 01:43 AM
Eddy_EK

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

XSPC can do it right for 99$ .... why?, Eddy, why? :shakes: I am seriously considering sending back my nickel FC's right now :( and I really REALLY don't want to have to :(

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7...870szf1.th.jpg http://img263.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Hi there,

I'll be honest with you. There are few reasons why we don't use standoffs.
1. I have mounted many blocks on cards and found no need for this as I can find optimal pressure for the block quickly.
2. for standoffs we need at lease 1,2mm more copper material (which is about 15% more material and this is $$$)
3. more machining which costs from 25€-35€ per hour.

XSPC makes blocks in Asia which significantly drops the production costs. Many other brands are also making blocks in Asia... But we are determinate to keep the quality control in our hands as that is very hard to achieve in Asia.

I know we have to be better, to make it better, so the less experienced users can mount the block without any problem. We are already using standoffs for Alu parts at 4870 and 4850 blocks.

I promise you we will start seriously to find solution to this, to provide you the standoffs for et least next coming water blocks if not for the present ones.
Options are:
- plastic standoffs that are additionally glued to the copper
- metal standoffs that are additionally glued to the copper
- full copper one-piece standoffs like XSPC and some others have it

Anything else, feel free to contact me on our e-mails info@ek.....

Eddy
10-18-2008, 01:45 AM
MomijiTMO

And we know all to well about XSPC QC issues ;)
10-18-2008, 01:53 AM
Waterlogged

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddy_EK

Hi there,

I'll be honest with you. There are few reasons why we don't use standoffs.
1. I have mounted many blocks on cards and found no need for this as I can find optimal pressure for the block quickly.
2. for standoffs we need at lease 1,2mm more copper material (which is about 15% more material and this is $$$)
3. more machining which costs from 25€-35€ per hour.

XSPC makes blocks in Asia which significantly drops the production costs. Many other brands are also making blocks in Asia... But we are determinate to keep the quality control in our hands as that is very hard to achieve in Asia.

I know we have to be better, to make it better, so the less experienced users can mount the block without any problem. We are already using standoffs for Alu parts at 4870 and 4850 blocks.

I promise you we will start seriously to find solution to this, to provide you the standoffs for et least next coming water blocks if not for the present ones.
Options are:
- plastic standoffs that are additionally glued to the copper
- metal standoffs that are additionally glued to the copper
- full copper one-piece standoffs like XSPC and some others have it

Anything else, feel free to contact me on our e-mails info@ek.....

Eddy

Danger Den machines their standoffs on their current blocks and I'd be more than willing to bet that their machining costs are very similar to yours Eddy.

There are plenty of ppl that have had problems mounting non standoff blocks lately and some of them are very experienced ppl. It's gone beyond the newb looking stupid for no reason and that's not a good thing.
10-18-2008, 01:56 AM
TI66ER

I do like the ek 4850 block,the only reason i did not buy that one was price,in the uk the ek is about £10 more than the xspc.Upto now this block has been fine so i will see on the qc factor when its been on a while.Considering the blocks are basically a machined block of copper with a machined piece of acetal on the top,how hard can it be to make it leak proof.

As far as the no stand offs go,if it has no stand offs on the block,surely you just dont screw the screws in a too tight.As long as the blocks metal is touching the part to be cooled,does it need to be really tightly screwed down?

Sorry if i sound like i dont know what i'am on about,feel free to call me ignorant.:rolleyes:
10-18-2008, 01:58 AM
Movieman

Suggestion from an old fart?:D
What about a simple round holed plastic insert sized properly and dropped in the parts bag with a simple diagram on where they go for the uninformed.
That should keep your end down and satisfy the crazed folks here..
Yes? No? Go back and crawl in my hole?:D

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