Maybe if nVidia would price its top end more reasonably, they wouldn't be in such a price-performance bind, unlike AMD is currently.
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Maybe if nVidia would price its top end more reasonably, they wouldn't be in such a price-performance bind, unlike AMD is currently.
This battle for GPU mean's nothing if there's no good or fair amount of PC games coming in the near future ... I spend a lot of $$$ on a crossfire setup to basically play COD4 ... COD4 look's as good on consoles too ...Original upgrade plan was for Crysis but only a future godzilla gaming rig could takle decent fpu on a 24 inch LCD... Not mentionning some lockup because of ill crossfire coding... Seeing MG4 and playing some guitar hero with a couple of drunk friends made me think more and more going to the dark side and purchase a PS3 ... Even more if I can plug a mouse and keyboard on the PS3...
Good points. I'd never knock on anyone's desire to spend money on whatever they like, but spending an endless amount of cash on upgrading for sli or crossfire doesn't make much sense when you look at the current state of pc gaming. Sure, there are some great pc games, but do you really need a killer gaming system to enjoy those games (crysis might be the only exception). I own an XBOX 360 and PS3 and I haven't really played many console games because I hate paying $60 for games. Sure, you can rent, but I'd rather own. If the game prices dropped, I'd have a hard time recommending pc gaming over console gaming. MGS4 looks stunning on the PS3 and runs great for a fraction of the cost of a high end gaming rig. Plus, I love the plug'n'play aspect of the consoles. Less headaches....Quote:
Originally Posted by voltaire2030
heh
welcome to free-market competition, and the ignorance of analysts/speculators
some might consider this boring, yet i find it fun to watch as you all debate the idea some analyst came up with based on his "extensive" knowledge on the subject
next, there will suddenly be a futures market on gpu's, and gpu manufacturers will have to sell their product to the market, and buy it back at an inflated cost
after that, there will be movies made called "Global Aliasing", where Al Gore will preach that we need to buy less gpu's, and find alternative forms of graphics power
.... you get the point... I hope
I don't know about everyone else...But GTX 280 doesn't make me cream my pants or anything. It's a single GPU card that performs about the same as GX2, give or take. So, I'm not going to even consider dropping $550 on something that really isn't going to make my gaming experience $550 better. Am I the only one with a ho-hum attitude about GTX 280?
Now, if AMD comes out with a solution that performs roughly equal to the 280 and does so for less jingle, then I might make a serious consideration. Part of that being that I want to support AMD....IF they'd finally make a product I would feel good about buying, AND that would be more than a marginal increase in performance from my current video card.
Cant say I didnt see this coming. SLI isnt nearly as flexable as CrossfireX (tho in alot of cases less buggy) since tri-sli and mixed match sli isnt possible at the moment. Adding useless gimmicks like PhysX to their cards (Havok FTW).... Re releasing the same tech under a different name etc...
What Nv needs is more presence in the midrange market. the GT260 is far from midrange at the price point its at. And with ATi's ability to pair up 2 lower end cards (4850 $150) for less than Nvidias lower end offering and still get performance on par or close to its high end what chance does Nv have this round?
Once Nv sees that the $150-$300 range is the sweet spot, things will change. Like 8800GT vs 3870, they had the right idea but not the supply to follow thru.
Isn't Nvidia keeping the prices high on the 260 and 280 to prevent shortages? From everything that was reported, yields are brutal, meaning very low volume to start.
If that is not the case, then I really don't understand the mentality of pricing the thing so high.
nVidia now have two fronts to fight on, one the one hand they are panicked about what is going to happen to their motherboard business once Nehalem is released and they are either forced to concede and allow SLi on Intel chipsets or offer an alternative platform. Now ATi has some real contenders in DX10 space this is going to have a knock on effect as ATi cards will be supported in crossfire which will hit nVidia on both sides.
Here's how I see this panning out.
4870 x2 takes the single card performance crown from the 9800 GX2.
nVidia rush the 55nm die shrink of G200 and narrowly retake the crown with the GX200.
ATi's 45nm die shrink (5000 series) has a similar impact to the 55nm shrink (3000 series) and produce the 5870x2 and regain the performance crown.
Nehalem is not the initial success that everyone expects.
AMD's 45nm Phenom makes up a lot of ground on Core2.
AMD Fusion integrates an ATi GPU core with three Phenom cores and is first to market with an x86 integrated core and can be used to supplement a discrete GPU solution from ATi.
Intel's 32nm die shrink is delayed, meanwhile Larabee has limited success but lacks support due to the strength of ATi & nVidia.
Dual GPU, Dual CPU units follow and challenge discrete products.
nVidia expand on the Quosimo model (Cell+Core2+SLi) due to lack of support from Intel with a heterogeneous MPU featuring G200, Cell and Nano cores, but lacks support from bot Intel and Macintosh and evolves into a consumer product.
I may be wrong but I've made predictions in the past and been correct, check back in six months or so.
rofl, you some kind of wizzard or fortune-teller? this ain't xtremespeculations.org. first I thought speculating about the next die-shrink - meh, lots of people do it. but it is interesting to note that you already know about nehalem's die shrink wow. you made my day (night) *g*.
ontopic:
seems like nv tried to cover up their problems with arrogance?
Let me put on my robe and wizard hat.
Quote:
4870 x2 takes the single card performance crown from the 9800 GX2. - sure, might happen.
nVidia rush the 55nm die shrink of G200 and narrowly retake the crown with the GX200. - narrowly, who knows.
ATi's 45nm die shrink (5000 series) has a similar impact to the 55nm shrink (3000 series) and produce the 5870x2 and regain the performance crown. - the 4 series will last until next year. R800 is not due till 09. hence this ought to come after your Nehalem mention on the timeline.
Nehalem is not the initial success that everyone expects. - well, I doubt that. obviously it's not going to get hooge marketshare by launching in the three upper segments first. but in those segments i think it will do very well.
AMD's 45nm Phenom makes up a lot of ground on Core2. - it's just a die shrink. anyone telling you it's such a massive refresh are high on AMD fan-ism (I have an AMD, doesn't mean I need to be rabid about the brand)
AMD Fusion integrates an ATi GPU core with three Phenom cores and is first to market with an x86 integrated core and can be used to supplement a discrete GPU solution from ATi. - this is for laptops, so is hybrid sli. do we care? no. will we care? no. gimped integrated graphics will be what they are whether they're on the northbridge or the cpu.
Intel's 32nm die shrink is delayed, meanwhile Larabee has limited success but lacks support due to the strength of ATi & nVidia. - 32nm might be delayed. Larrabee - probably the other way around, rather.
Dual GPU, Dual CPU units follow and challenge discrete products. - yeah, the performance-conscious consumer is going to want a dual core and gimped integrated graphics in 2009. :D
nVidia expand on the Quosimo model (Cell+Core2+SLi) due to lack of support from Intel with a heterogeneous MPU featuring G200, Cell and Nano cores, but lacks support from bot Intel and Macintosh and evolves into a consumer product. - the Qosmio is Toshiba's way of trying to flog the Cell. the cell can't do the job of a CPU because it's too simple, and it gets beaten by the GPU at parallel processing. the 'model' is a recipe for disastrous battery life and an exercise in pointlessness. They already have a 9600M onboard that can do things twenty times faster than 4 SPEs can through CUDA.
ROFLQuote:
Originally Posted by bowman
LOL, nice interpretation of Fusion. I agree Fusion is for laptops. Dedicated graphics cards are the future for best desktop performance because of dedicated GDDR(x) memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowman
Yeah, lol. Sif that's going to challenge discrete products.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowman the 'Wizard'
Cell has a general purpose CPU + extra FP 'cells'. The general purpose CPU is a simple in-order processor as you said ... so slower than a normal CPU, but could be a good direction for mass core's (like over 10). The FP 'cells' are basically like fusion -- a way of boosting laptop graphics/FP performance while being power efficient. Not a desktop performance solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowman the 'Wizard'
The Cell in the PS3 has a powerpc 'babysitter' core. The PC implementation 'SpursEngine' has no such thing because we already have a CPU to babysit such things. Then again, we also have add-in boards with a 128-node vector processor array so why we would want such a thing is beyond me. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 0g1
GTS280 isnt that impressive. Will be buying new ATI's when they are out, even if it is 5% slower..time for change..bored with NV
Seriously, I'm more interested in Folding@Home PPD results for my next card. What do you mean dark side, i already own a Ps3 and it rules. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by voltaire2030
Big predictions, but i wouldn't be surprised if they were spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by initialised
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by strange|ife
+1:up: We should try to help a distressed company, so there wounīt be a stagnant technology( if AMD goes under we will all be doomed by Intelīs and Nvidiaīs prices). I pray and hope the HD 4870 will have enough power to turn our heads and pockets towards ATI cards..Quote:
Originally Posted by strange|ife
No, it's like the G80 core, it stayed highly priced because it was low yield. G200 is huge but with a massively parallel achitecture a single defect will (in most case) kill a cluster of stream processors instead of the whole die. These are sold as GTX260, expect GTX240 and GTX220 to follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeter
Unlike the Ultra and GTX the 55nm die shrink (9800GTX+) has already been announced so expect the GTX270 and GTX290 to follow once the process is qualified on these die or ATi start capturing significant market share. I have been informed that GTX260/280 is a stop-gap product
so either the 55nm die shrink or a 65nm GX200 is imminent.
I'm a avid pc player since god knows when... But now I'm questioning all the $$$ I put in PC ... I change my GPU on average every year ... But for what now ? The game industry is going more and more to consoles... Except a tiny portion of the industry still concentrate on the pc market, ex: HL2... The reason why I didn't have a console was : multiplayers on internet, graphics, mouse and keyboard was only available or superior for PC... Now it's no longer the case...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcarcas
So why ATI and Nv have a war on GPU's when their market are switching for consoles ? Even if they lower the price of their GPU, if you don't have games to play, what for ?
Because they think they can sell cards on the virtue of tech demos and Crysis alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by voltaire2030
I ask myself this very same question - they pump money out for their 'the way it's meant to be played' crapola and such, but what do you see this label on nowadays? Console ports. Why not fund developers to make proper PC games? It's as if they couldn't care less if their entire market dies or not.
I hope for their sake that their parallel architectures catch on in the HPC industry, and I hope for our sake they choose to prop up the PC gaming development industry rather than abandon it. If Sony and MS are offering up big wads of cash and loads of support for developers to abandon the PC platform and do console games instead, and noone's doing the same for the PC, what's going to happen? Don't even mention the PCGA, that's a joke.
The day they stop making PC games I'll just stop playing games. Consoles are anemic, outdated on release, and locked down on all ends for the end-user. What kind of fun is that? Hardware you can't do anything with but the rat maze Sony/MS tells you you can follow?
What a load of horsebanana. Dream on. You think competing with Nvidia is like competing with Intel?! LMAO. Intel hasn't been sitting on their asses like Nvidia has for the past year or two. They haven't slacked off at all but have maintained the frenetic pace of their tick tock cycle despite zero pressure from Hector and Co. Intel is so far ahead of AMD in CPU land that I wonder if AMD has a chance of ever being competitive again. Just be happy that your stock rose. I feel like you guys are going for a pump and dump scheme on this forum with all of your pro-AMD raving and ranting. Yeah, I want AMD to succeed too. I'm not sad to see Nvidia's stock drop. That's a sign that they are not going to be able to maintain monopoly pricing against the onslaught of the AMD war machine. I just wish you guys would cool it with all the mad raving. It's just a video card sitting inside of your closed computer case. Whether you buy a 4870 or a GTX260 really doesn't make all that much difference (unless you are going multi-card). No need at all to try to distort the truth. These people don't care at all about you. I don't see why you should care about them.Quote:
Nehalem is not the initial success that everyone expects.
The biggest thing nvidia has going right now is F@H GPU2, pretty sad for them but something has to keep AMD afloat
erm... whats this whole cuda horesecrap.. ? IMO its a sad excuse to fight fusion ? just a thought..
Fusion is IGP on a CPU. Just like value Nehalem. It got nothing at all to do with CUDA or anything like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by saveus222
We talk the very most lowend desktops and laptops.
And since having two cores on one die or MCM is more power efficient than discrete components it makes sense to integrate. Consider a chip the size of G200, at the 32nm node this level of GPU power will fit in 1/4 the space so why not have a pair of these, an array of 2 or 4 x86s and a couple of Cells on the same module? To me this is where Intel's attitude will force nVidia. Integrated x86 + Cell will be nVidias answer to nehalem.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowman
I probably shouldn't repost this but it is from an expensive private financial service and a very reliable source (successful and well known hedge fund manager):
It would be the death knell for AMD imho, that is assuming it would pass anti-trust scrutiny.Quote:
INTC to Make a Bid for NVDA?
6/24/2008 10:58 AM EDT
Update INTC NVDA
That's the rumor.
High up above the alps, my Gnome in Switzerland is chatting about an acquisition of Nvidia (NVDA) by Intel (INTC).
99% chances it will never happen,but interesting rumor indeed.Thanks for posting :).Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
I wonder does this have anything to do with boosting NV shares since they went downhill yesterday?