8800gt Disappointed

Every product has a certain percentage of defective products that get by quality control- my point in all this is that we don't know that number is higher for 8800GTs.

If we see 100 people post on the web they got a defective 8800GT, and 100,000 were sold, does that mean there was a "bad first batch"?

Beats me- I don't know what the normal rate of return is, .1% might fall within that.

The other side of this is we have recently seen the online press point out defects with the 3870s (resistor), Quad Opteron (cache), and Phenom (cache). We've seen no articles from the press stating there are bad 8800GTs- just some people saying "I saw some guys post they got a bad 8800GT".

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Every product has a certain percentage of defective products that get by quality control- my point in all this is that we don't know that number is higher for 8800GTs.

If we see 100 people post on the web they got a defective 8800GT, and 100,000 were sold, does that mean there was a "bad first batch"?

Beats me- I don't know what the normal rate of return is, .1% might fall within that.

The other side of this is we have recently seen the online press point out defects with the 3870s (resistor), Quad Opteron (cache), and Phenom (cache). We've seen no articles from the press stating there are bad 8800GTs- just some people saying "I saw some guys post they got a bad 8800GT".

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It's not "SOME GUY" it's me. This isn't some urban legend or some Story I saw on the Internet... I am The GUY. You are getting information from my expierience.


The statistical possibility that I got all four defective cards is impossible.

You sound like a smart person... So what is more likely...

That I got 4 Defective cards for no reason..

Or

That the four cards are from a defective batch..

Seriously... You are not making sense here.

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Originally Posted by Ethelred

Not at all. I know that the world we live in is not a perfect world I would rather have a company come forth and say that they have had some slight and not wide spread QC issue. As well as I know that rarely, from my experience, do things go right the first time around, (more so on a large scale) thus the saying "practice makes perfect"

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You can't use an old saying to prove a point. There are many people who go to bed early, get up early, and aren't "healthy, wealthy, or wise". This is a logical fallacy, I forget which one.

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Originally Posted by Ethelred

I think that is all that needs to be said...you signed the NDA, which means any information you can release has been kosher approved...which means what you have to say means little to nothing. (In regards to the possibility of issues arising from QC or the ilik)

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That is true, I can't post anything that I'm told is confidential. However, I was told this isn't confidential, and that it's just not true.

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Originally Posted by Ethelred

Just like WinXP/Vista/ME were all ready to be sent to retail...again there are always defects...just depends on the scale.

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I agree, and without knowledge of actual RMA percents and usual RMA percents, we can't really comment, can we?

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Originally Posted by Ethelred

Edit: Bad example (see Ford Pinto/Articles of Confederation for better examples)

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Still, anecdotal and false analogy. One situation doesn't have any relationship to the other.

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Originally Posted by Ethelred

I work in an environment where no mistakes are tolerable and the outcome of a mistake is made aware very rapidly as well as dealt with in and with the utmost care and consideration.

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OK- and you know NVIDIA deals with mistakes differently how? Or think they would for some reason? Why doesn't your company?

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Originally Posted by Ethelred

In regards to the auto industry the only reason why most of the recalls are sent is to prevent class action lawsuits and because they have a slight moral obligation...but even then they weigh the harm vs. cost.

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NVIDIA/OEMs don't have to worry about class action lawsuits for some reason? I had no idea they were exempt!

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Originally Posted by Ethelred

Which insights further mistrust on your hand...:up:

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All I'm seeing here is mistrust on your part- you're all too willing to believe that NVIDIA is "hiding something" like the tire guys and Pinto guys, based on some anecdotal evidence on the web, but unwilling to believe they treat their customers with the same respect your firm and and the auto industry does.

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Originally Posted by Brian MP5T

It's not "SOME GUY" it's me. This isn't some urban legend or some Story I saw on the Internet... I am The GUY. You are getting information from my expierience.


The statistical possibility that I got all four defective cards is impossible.

You sound like a smart person... So what is more likely...

That I got 4 Defective cards for no reason..

Or

That the four cards are from a defective batch..

Seriously... You are not making sense here.

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I don't know enough about how defects work usually to agree it's "statistically impossible".

Consider my example 100/100,000 defective.

What if the machines that fabricate them had a malfunction, and the 100 cards were all consecutive, all part of an order to the same store- it would up your odds considerably.

What if it wasn't a problem with the machine, but a bad box of parts from a supplier, and they all went to the chain you bought yours at?

You're assuming the nature of such things is random, I'd almost think it would be more likely to be pretty focused. Which would constitute a "bad batch" for consumers at the place you bought, not the world in general.

Then there's the whole problem of we have no way to verify what you said, as you haven't posted your RMA documentation or return receipts. Not calling you a liar, but anyone can post "I bought 4 bad cards!".
Even if you did, there's the whole problem of the nature of these things could be concentrated.

Last but not least, as noted, these things are often reported in the press, and this wasn't. (e.g. 3870 resistor, Barcelona cache, Phenom cache)

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Originally Posted by Rollo

I don't know enough about how defects work usually to agree it's "statistically impossible"

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I am not going to dig up my recipts and scan them.

I believe the essence of the thread has been answered and now we are on a tangent.

For whatever reason I ended up with 4 Bad cards. It is likely that it was parts or manufacturing.


I on;y wanted to point out that the originator of the post should not abandon the idea of the GT.

It is a fantastic card, it simply needs to be replaced and that he had bad luck.

Also there is a new driver..
http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/winxp_169.13_uk.html

rollo can you tell your inside guys that my cards run to hot at idle and the 29% fan speed is to slow for the cards.I gamed and got them up to 70c without the fans speeding up on there own.

I find it pathetic that my old 2600xt had a better cooling solution than my 2 880gt's do.

Is it true that there is a new refernce fan/heatsink coming out?If it is then what about all the people that bought cards that came with the smaller fans?

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Originally Posted by Skratch

rollo can you tell your inside guys that my cards run to hot at idle and the 29% fan speed is to slow for the cards.I gamed and got them up to 70c without the fans speeding up on there own.

I find it pathetic that my old 2600xt had a better cooling solution than my 2 880gt's do.

Is it true that there is a new refernce fan/heatsink coming out?If it is then what about all the people that bought cards that came with the smaller fans?

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That should get fixed as a driver update IMO..

Wow, is this how people are treated when they have a GT problem?

The stock 8800gt is fine, it's a little loud, but it is a single-slot GPU. Simply use Rivatuner to turn up the fan speed.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

You can't use an old saying to prove a point.

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Why not? How does that not apply in this situation? The more often one does a task the fewer opportunities there are for mistake. A person/company will learn from a mistake and hopefully not repeat it. Thus each mistake (or practice) will lessen the chance of further mistakes (making it near perfect). I think it stands.

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That is true, I can't post anything that I'm told is confidential. However, I was told this isn't confidential, and that it's just not true.

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Atleast that's what they say...Like I said, everything you have been told (and lets face it you aren't in upper management with Nvidia, at the end of the day you are a tool, simply a peon) has been approved and completely and utterly harmless.

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I agree, and without knowledge of actual RMA percents and usual RMA percents, we can't really comment, can we?

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Well you can? I was merely posting on my experience, which happens to coincide with other experiences with the same product around the same time.

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Still, anecdotal and false analogy. One situation doesn't have any relationship to the other.

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I disagree both were epic failures in regards to quality control one more so than the other. The Articles of Confederation while an attempt to make something new was regarded as the great next-gen...err..government and simply couldn't cut it. To say that even that has no relevance is not entirely true, quality control happens everyday in our government whether it's the president vetoing a bill, or congress passing one and even down the the supreme court ruling on a case. All of these are a form of quality control and happen every day at a level far more vast than we realise. And we all know what happened to the Articles of Confederation.

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NVIDIA/OEMs don't have to worry about class action lawsuits for some reason? I had no idea they were exempt!

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The grounds for bringing forth a class action lawsuit against a computer hardware company such as Nvidia and ATI would have to be rather outlandish, with RMA and warranty controls in place the grounds of "I got a bad card" couldn't warrant it. Class action would come from something like NVidia gave me cancer or my Nvidia card caused my SUV to roll over killing my children...NVidia is not exempt just not at risk for it due to the nature of their business. Some companies are more likely to have class action lawsuits against them of which are pharmaceuticals, transportation oriented business, health-care, food service (in the sense of manufactures and retail ie. McDonalds/Burger Joint). Nvidia just doesn't deal with anything _that_ important to really worry a great deal about it.

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Originally Posted by Brian MP5T

That should get fixed as a driver update IMO..

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probably right

i don't understand why EVGA released a bios update lol when this could have been fixed through card drivers heh
maybe they can't wait for nvidia driver team or something hahah

A driver update to increase fanspeed isn't a good idea, as your card isn't always refereed by a driver, like when in the PC BIOS, safe mode, etc.

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Originally Posted by Spoudazo

The stock 8800gt is fine, it's a little loud, but it is a single-slot GPU. Simply use Rivatuner to turn up the fan speed.

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We are looking at a solution that will not require everyone to open a third party software and manually adjust the fan every time..