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I've got a 225BW and I positively love the damn thing. Haven't had any issues of input lag, banding, or bad color re-creation. If anything my only issue is that it isn't 30 inches but that's not related to the monitor at all. I guess either I have simple desires in panels or I have terrible eyes in regards to color recreation. No lag at all though, perfect for gaming at 1680x1050.
yeah after a reading a review i put the 225b on my short list however no one had it in stock when i went to buy. shame as i would really liked to have tried it
I got my 215TW at Best Buy last year for $550 now I could get a 24" for that much, but I still love it ;)
does your suffer any lag? there are a few that dont suffer it and samsung have promised me a replacement screen that doesnt suffer from it. but awaiting on them to get back to me (they already swapped it once)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoat Eater
if i dont hear anything by the end of this week i will be selling it on
I haven't noticed any:up: -had since last yearQuote:
Originally Posted by it_burns_when_i_pee
try the test i done above. look on yourtube for 215tw and you will find several videos with the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoat Eater
the one i have is made in slovakia, june 2007. when / where was yours made
Hello it_burns, First thing I am gonna say is this. I noticed that the two screens in your photo look wildly different in color and brightness, gamma. Every screen is different. They need to be calibrated to make accurate judgements on color and gamma. At the very least use either the program on the 215TW CD or the program in the nVidia control panel to do basic adjustments to each monitor and then look at them through on this page:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
For color I would take pics with a digital camera and have them printed , some place like Wal-Mart or Target will do because those printers will be set up to be neutral and not to any specific monitor. Hold the pics up to the monitor and compare the colors, dynamic range, and detail in the shadows and highlights. Don’t worry about any tint as that won’t be accurate without proper calibration.
Now, I hate to say this but in regards to input lag, You’re not making a lot of sense. First you say that everything is fine, and you even games on it and there was no problem. To quote:Then all of a sudden you hear of an input lag problem from Garret and now what happens?Quote:
I went through some pictures, checkmon, a movie and 2 games (dark and light maps).
Wtf, I thought the games and movie was fine a min ago? Garrett was kind enough to post some photo of a test you can do. The lag with his Dell (which he “coulnt be happier with”) was 3.6ms.Quote:
the delay is obvious in a fast paced FPS but less noticable in other things. a film seemed to be out of sync which i assumed was poor codec use but played it again on the HP & it was fine!!
Lets look at your tests results, the difference in ms , 215TW vs. HP: 4.6ms, 3.2ms 6.3ms, 4.2ms, and 4.8ms. Average = 4.6. (just subtracting stop watch times)
3.6ms vs. 4.6ms of lag. thats nothing dude. No way is 1ms of lag going to make lips not match and be ‘obvious’ in fast paced FPS games. It might pose a problem with FPS games if you are a Pro gamer, but Pro gamers always use CRTs or at the minimum a gaming oriented TN Panel. Neither the Dell nor the Samsung is TN, hence the slight lag, but in return you get 8 bit color.
I looked at the YouTube videos. All the tests were done with the person was moving their cursor slower than you. You were going faster to achieve the same effect in my opinion.
I want to add is that the majority of LCD HDTVs out there lag by at least 10-15ms. It has to do with the size, and the fact that unless it’s a 1080p TV displaying 1080p, they are almost never displayed at native resolution. Most 720p monitors use 1366x768 so both 1080i and 720p must be resized. DVD, 480p must always be resized, and anything I must always be deinterlaced, which causes lag. This always attributes to input lag on a HDTV. It’s not a huge problem because console FPS games are not fast paced, but it’s something to consider when thinking about lips not matching in video. According to Garrett’s linked Wikipedia article I will take one line:
I have no doubt that there are affected 215TW’s out there, as evidenced by YouTube, but I thought I might save you the time of switching out LCDs and thinking you still have the laggy one because your just looking at the raw data; I think it’s best to just play a game and see if your performance is affected. I really don’t think that you have one of the laggy 215TWs, for several reasons:Quote:
“Input lag contributes to the overall latency in the interface chain of the user's inputs (mouse, keyboard, etc...) to the graphics card to the monitor. Most sensitive users can tolerate latency under 20ms.”
a) You were moving your mouse faster than the people in YouTube to achieve the same effect, they were moving it painfully slowly across the screen yet lag was still there.
b) The stopwatch photos showed your LCD to be hardly behind a TN panel, TN panels hardly lag at all, even if a TN panel lags ½ as much as Garrett’s Dell, that still puts the Samsung at roughly 6ms of lag. Still not a huge deal.
c) Garrett noticed his mouse to have a slow response right away, you played games and watched movies and didn’t notice anything until someone told you.
I have one question for Garrett: when you had a 215TW did you ever take a picture with a CRT to measure the lag? If so what was the difference in times? For you to notice it right away with the mouse, or look like the ones I saw on YouTube, my guess is that’s its much higher than what it_burns is getting.
Hopefully Garrett can answer. If the time differences were significantly larger than 4.6ms, I think we can assume that you do not have the laggy 215TW, and you need to decide if just S-PVA panels aren’t fast enough for you and you need a TN like the HP. If they are right around 5ms, than you can try once more for a switch I suppose.
All LCDs lag. It’s just how much they lag and does that amount really affect what you do with the screen. You are going have to make a choice on how Pro of a gamer you are. S-IPS can have ghosting problems. TN panels cannot possibly be 8 bit. And S-PVA panels have input lag. In my opinion being 4.6ms behind a TN panel is very good. But that’s just my opinion. Do you have a CRT to compare to? Maybe you can get how far behind the Samsung is to Garrets Dell? You know the one he “couldn’t be happier with”
I’m brand new LCD owner and it’s a Samsung 215TW btw, and I play CS 1.6 on small deathmatch maps filled with people, consider myself quite good, and see no noticeable impact on my gaming performance. After reading your thread, I even re hooked up my CRT monitor in clone mode and played on LCD and CRT back to back several rounds and noticed no difference. If I sit back I can see differences, very minor, but who cares, my performance or gaming experience didn’t go down any.
Made in Mexico March 2007 btw.
Sorry if I’m coming off harsh, but it just amazes me that the second someone mentions a problem then you notice lips not matching on a movie when it was no problem before. Hilarious. Stop looking at the data and play the game and see if you start sucking or if your still good.
the colors are matched!?! look again. the difference you are seeing is the color change on the 6bit and the gloss. part of the hp screen is the same color as the samsung where the angle is not causing brightening / darkening of the colors. i spend a good few hours tweaking them. at the end of the day i wanted the better of the two monitors and i wasnt go to do a half hearted job deciding. i scrutenized over a number of days
i did say that i didnt notice the lag on clone, i was too concerned looking for ghosting & comparing the colors. after pulling down the monitor i hadnt played any CS as thats a typical weekend thing. was skeptical at garret's statement but he saved me a costly mistake. you wouldnt believe how nuts i would have gone discovering that too late, especially after all the comparing i did. thanks again garret.
and the lag you refer to on upscaling / downscaling wasnt the cause. it was hooked up to a pc which was outputting the native 1680x1050, if it was hooked up to something else which had a lower res being upscaled i would have taken that into account. truth is it was lagging on its own native resolution.
i know all tft's suffer some lag but the 215tw seems to suffer more. make some use of google, there are 1000's that have the same opinion as me and garret. the lag is obvious fast or slow & im sorry if you disagree but its not something i can tolerate. maybe you can but as said i am picky. i play fast paced stuff - i expect it to be at least as good as my 2 year old HP 19" which coped absolutely fine. so you say the 215tw is displaying lag because i am moving the mouse fast? oh im sorry how dare i expect it to achieve such a task? the hp seems to cope quite well, what does that say?
samsung gave me a statement (whether bollocks or not) that some screens made in slovakia suffer from slow panel technology but the ones made in mexico are fine ... only hardly of them got to the uk. the first and 2nd replacements from samsung were both made in slovakia and suffered equally. i have now sold the 215tw. if it truly was a better screen dont you think i would be keeping it than settling for the 6bit hp?
do some google-ing with "215tw mexico" and "slovakia" and you will repeatadly read the issue i have gone through. if samsung could have delivered a mexico model i would have happily gone through the boring tasks and probably end up keeping it. but for the time being i am going to have to make do with the hp and sell up when something better comes along
what do you think HP2408 compare to Dell 2407?
have not tried either
i can and will only give opinions on screens i have tried for myself. check google for reviews but also opinions. a few reviews have had me buy some screens i wasnt too happy with
Guys,
Just to make it more clear, please look at that test :www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3054
I have a HP w2007 the 20" model and I'm happy with it. The nice thing over the 19" is it has a max res of 1680/1050. Im not able to see any lag in it and the color is great for a LCD.
deciding on a new lcd is quite frustrating...i keep going around in circles trying to decide what to get :(
Thanks to this thread i ordered a w2207, got my order canceled because the store managed to sell out all of their stock before getting back to my order, and got a nice little discount on a Samsung 2232BW instead. Great screen indeed, i've been whoring FPS games since and notice no input lag yet. Check it out, and if in doubt, get it.
looks the muts! i'll have to check it out. i see it has the same gloss effect as the hpQuote:
Originally Posted by Rawcat
Nope, that's the 2232GW, the BW has a matte finish. Although the bezel is glossy too. :)
guys,
I have picked up my brand new 226cw yesterday...and it is perfect but not as juicy as hp w2207....unfortunately hp was not available in the store so I bought samsung....no regret so far....no input lag at all... pictures soon :))
You most likely have no input lag because you have a TN panel ;)
what sort of software do you recommend for the best colour calibration ? I haven't installed the original form samsung as it is really crap to be honest. Any suggestions ?
btw, it's 36ms and 46ms. which is considerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by e60.deluxe
...about the HP w2207. i have one too and i must say the reflections can be really annoying, but then again the colors are great for a TN Panel.
that's the only i reason i'm not getting the w2207... i got a lot of windows in my room and with a glossy-panel i wouldn't see anything on the monitor :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_KHAN
and after the samsung 226bw panel-fiasco the w2207 is the only monitor that offers what i would want.
this sux so much. i'd really like to have a decent 22"/24" wd/gaming tft.
so there's nothing i can do but wait for a new generation of tfts :/
pva-panel with <2ms would pwn so much! (the removal of native resolutions would be genious too :D)
Guys,
can you suggest something regarding the software for color calibration ??
Thx
waiting is a good idea. im just repeating myself but when something better comes along i will check it outQuote:
Originally Posted by RaZz!
as for software i used HP's own plus 2 or 3 i downloaded from google after typing in "monitor calibration". there was a photo one too. your software drivers should include a calibration tool. the hp one is buggy so after tweaking to my liking for the light in the room i uninstalled it. but recommend you install the drivers / icc profiles for your screen for optimal results
also check this out
http://http://www.displaycalibration..._contrast.html
Great review! The HP W2207 is the clear winner here! :up:
I have a Hanns-G HW191D (19" Widescreen, 1440x900 16:10, 5ms) could you tell me what kind of panel it is?... :) I would but I'm sort of busy right now and I have close to no knowledge in LCD parts... :yawn: