Xtreme External Cooler

CD:
Now, I'm going to go into my old chemistry/thermodynamics here (and it's been a bloody while). If I'm off on some/any/all of these equations, please, correct me, don't flame me.

Anyways, first find out the total loop volume in mL. Then, add a heat source. ANYthing will work. Measure the temp of the water as it enters, and then as it leaves.

Now then, with that, you can calculate the heat loss of the water. The specific heat of water is 4.18 joules per grams degree celcius (j/gC). (note: 1g of water=1mL of water).
When you figure the joules of heat changed by the system you can convert joules to watts. Joules=Watts*seconds. Use a 1 second time, and there ya go.

Now then, please excuse me while I go find my kevlar flame suit (I probably got something wrong)...
-Ghent

very cool

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrToad

NPSM seals between a groove in the female thread (the block) and a flange on the male thread.

BSPP with O-ring (Gx/x") has a groove on the nut of the male fitting to hold the O-ring in place and seals against a flat surface on the female thread.



The threads in the Storm, as well as the MCW30, MCW60 and so on are 1/4" NPSM, hence he "wide flange".

And FYI, BPSS is many things, but none of them directly related to plumbing. However, BSPP is British Standard Pipe Parallel, (short form: BSP, as if it's not tapered, or BSPT, then it must be parallel).

Now that I've let some steam out, back to my personal war of attrition with the rodents...

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I am terrible with acronyms (chronic metathisis). I know it stands for British Standard Pipe Parallel though...:)

If there were a slight bevel before the female threads I could see the DD fittings working better.

I was refering only to the type of fitting used on the Storm not the size...My Storm shipped with 3/8 and 1/2 barbed 1/4 BSPP and I still wonder why something in that same style but in 3/8 is so hard to find...

Thanks again guys! I should be making some headway with the backplane this week. The steel enclosure for this prototype is in the works as I post.

Rodents? Nothing some LN2 can't fix...:p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ghent915

CD:
Now, I'm going to go into my old chemistry/thermodynamics here (and it's been a bloody while). If I'm off on some/any/all of these equations, please, correct me, don't flame me.

Anyways, first find out the total loop volume in mL. Then, add a heat source. ANYthing will work. Measure the temp of the water as it enters, and then as it leaves.

Now then, with that, you can calculate the heat loss of the water. The specific heat of water is 4.18 joules per grams degree celcius (j/gC). (note: 1g of water=1mL of water).
When you figure the joules of heat changed by the system you can convert joules to watts. Joules=Watts*seconds. Use a 1 second time, and there ya go.

Now then, please excuse me while I go find my kevlar flame suit (I probably got something wrong)...
-Ghent

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LOL no fire from me...I am here to learn and burn...

Thanks that makes perfect sense to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by safan80

very cool

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I sure hope:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KaptCrunch

Nice build CD, going with parrelle, you need to MATCH each WB FLOW RATE.
them crimp clamps your using need be close to the hex side of barb.

wow where you get big the res from, note don't open cap when running awiki

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Point noted: I will inspect my tubing connections prior to a run in. I agree. RE res OH YES even with the MCP 655 this res can be very entertaining to bleed :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

My Storm shipped with 3/8 and 1/2 barbed 1/4 BSPP

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Must be a special limited edition if you got 3/8" x G1/4 and 1/2" x G1/4 barbs with it.

Storm product sheet. Search for "thread" on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

Rodents? Nothing some LN2 can't fix...:p:

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My partner would feed my genitalia to the dog if I'd do that. I actually trap them and then release them in a corn field 3 miles from my house.

That's why is a war of attrition rather than a quick and bloody confrontation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrToad

Must be a special limited edition if you got 3/8" x G1/4 and 1/2" x G1/4 barbs with it.

Storm product sheet. Search for "thread" on it.



My partner would feed my genitalia to the dog if I'd do that. I actually trap them and then release them in a corn field 3 miles from my house.

That's why is a war of attrition rather than a quick and bloody confrontation.

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I got the Storm right after Cathar first gave Ben the rights to produce it. I had been lurking about following the progress and really wanted the SS G-5. I preorderd a prodcution Storm and waited for Swifty to release--then got an email from Swifty that it would be faster for me to buy it from their resellers as they would be getting the first batch--so I got my REV1 from FrozenCPU.

It shipped with barbs for 3/8" and 1/2" ID tubing. I still have them...

And I bought another Rev1 Storm, used, about a year ago and it too came with both sizes...:shrug:

I am still waiting for Stew to send me word on the availability of the sterling silver G-5...it's only been several years...I'll give him another year and then I'm giving up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

I got the Storm right after Cathar first gave Ben the rights to produce it. I had been lurking about following the progress and really wanted the SS G-5. I preorderd a prodcution Storm and waited for Swifty to release--then got an email from Swifty that it would be faster for me to buy it from their resellers as they would be getting the first batch--so I got my REV1 from FrozenCPU.

It shipped with barbs for 3/8" and 1/2" ID tubing. I still have them...

And I bought another Rev1 Storm, used, about a year ago and it too came with both sizes...:shrug:

I am still waiting for Stew to send me word on the availability of the sterling silver G-5...it's only been several years...I'll give him another year and then I'm giving up.

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:brick: :brick: :brick: :wierd:

It's not the hose ID of the barbs what puzzles me. It's the thread type. Swifty has been using NPSM for ages. Only in their new range of products (Apogee GTX / Stealth) they've moved to BSPP.

If you own a Storm Rev1 with BSPP female threads, you have on your hands a collector's item ^^

Anyway, I had enough frustration and anal retention for a day. I rest my case.

The D-Tek fittings I linked to are very different from DD (and from the images I have access to) the one from EK. The O-Ring actually sits up in a groove about half way up in the nut, so there's no way it can squish out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrToad

It's not the hose ID of the barbs what puzzles me. It's the thread type. Swifty has been using NPSM for ages. Only in their new range of products (Apogee GTX / Stealth) they've moved to BSPP.

If you own a Storm Rev1 with BSPP female threads, you have on your hands a collector's item ^^

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+1

Sorry I missed that detail on the barb you linked Waterlogged. I will look closer. Better yet I will just buy some and see if they actually work.

To satisfy MrToad I will dig through my bin and photograph the part that is
such a bone of contention. I could be wrong--I have Apogees in there too...

I can see that unless I use the proper acronyms and can identify my fittings without error I will get no sleep :rolleyes:

This is XS right? not BS--XS...just checking...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrToad

:brick: :brick: :brick: :wierd:

It's not the hose ID of the barbs what puzzles me. It's the thread type. Swifty has been using NPSM for ages. Only in their new range of products (Apogee GTX / Stealth) they've moved to BSPP.

If you own a Storm Rev1 with BSPP female threads, you have on your hands a collector's item ^^

Anyway, I had enough frustration and anal retention for a day. I rest my case.

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What case? the case of mistaken identity? I stand corrected. I made an assumption that because g 1/4 fits in the Storm they were indeed BSPP...but as the documentation you linked shows they are not. I still would like to find these fittings. I have taps for BSPP and NPS 1/4 for my acrylic work.

Accoprding McMaster-Carr

Quote:

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BSPP (British Standard Pipe Parallel)
BSPT (British Standard Pipe Taper)
NC (National Coarse)
NEF (National Extra Fine)
NF (National Fine)
NPS (National Pipe Straight)
NPSF (National Pipe Straight Dryseal)
NPT (National Pipe Taper)
NPTF (National Pipe Taper Dryseal)
NS (National Special)
N/UN (Unified Inch Screw Thread)

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That's the nomenclature for pipe threads I know. This is the first time I heard of NPSM. What does the M stand for?

Anyway I was bored and restless so...

Here ya go--I even took them apart to see what they are. The used Storm also came with some after market barbs that are different than the DD type.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1879/strom001nf3.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2221/strom002qz8.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/15/strom003tq3.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9537/strom004ue2.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8686/strom005lg1.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9756/strom006jm3.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2921/strom007vp2.jpg
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3771/strom008fo2.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9951/strom009fq9.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/488/strom010ic1.jpg

I realize it is simply the nomenclature that is dividing our POV. 18 tpi versus 19 tpi being the main diff in the the two styles. These are indeed as you say and I appreciate the upgrade to my plumbing lore :up:

I have a pretty large collection of top end gear... something like a dozen or more blocks. And I am just as fanatical about this as you:)

Hey CyberDruid, one question about the pump orientation for you. I wanted to attach my Iwaki MD-20 vertically but read in the manual that it was supposed to be placed horizontally, so that's what I did. I see that you have placed your Iwaki vertically, what's your opinion on this so far, have you run into any problems? Or haven't you filled the system up yet?

Anyway, looks like youre taking watercooling to the extreme. Good job!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by v0dka

Hey CyberDruid, one question about the pump orientation for you. I wanted to attach my Iwaki MD-20 vertically but read in the manual that it was supposed to be placed horizontally, so that's what I did. I see that you have placed your Iwaki vertically, what's your opinion on this so far, have you run into any problems? Or haven't you filled the system up yet?

Anyway, looks like youre taking watercooling to the extreme. Good job!

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Yep I read that thread too and also have read the pdf from Iwaki on it.

I have yet to run the pump. THe reasoning in the thread boiled down to air bubbles if the inlet was facing to earth. SO if that speculation is correct then NP.

However I do know that some motors are not designed to run vertically as this may create wear on a thrust washer or other bearing. That is a legitimate concern. I studied what little I could dig up on the pump and have not been able to find anything useful.

If anyone knows about this spread the word.

I am going to run it this way and see what happens...it's all I can think to do.

Without using elbows or really reworking the whole layout from scratch I can't see how I would be able to do it horizontally.

To run horizontal I would have to discard my compartmental design and run the pump topside beside the rad.I was hoping to minimize the noise and heat of the pump by running it in a seperate Sonex lined chamber.

TBH I wish there was a conclusive word on that so I could know whether to scrap the project and start over or just go for it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

I have 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 on the Storm as you can see these are Wide flange BSPP. The O-ring is held captive in the detent which should be clear from the pictures. There is no groove in the fitting itself.I would take a shot of my original Storm--but it is in the Bedroom and the wife is sleeping. You are welcome to post shots of the Storm you are talking about or the fitting...perhaps we are simply using different words to describe the same thing :thumb:

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I don't have pics of the Storm. Unfortunately I've never owned a storm.

However, I have a Apogee GT (cooling my CPU as we speak, so I'm not really keen on taking it apart :P: ), and a MCW60 doing exactly the same in my 8800 GTX. Both use the same thread as the Storm and came with the same barbs you show in your pictures.

Because the difference between NPSM and BSPP is just the thread count per inch (19 on BSPP, 18 on NPSN), they may "look" the same, but they area not. I will refrain myself from commenting on the "wide flange BSPP" issue, because with so many manufacturers out there, perhaps such thing exists.

Both were a bit hit and miss regarding which model of G/14" barb would fit on them. I could have saved myself the trouble by using the forum's search function, as there are like 1000 threads discussing this same subject since I joined the forums (there's one going on right now, and I have the feeling there were threads about it long before I joined XS).

Besides, thre's the product sheet in Swiftech, where clearly states in black and white (do a search for the term "thread" in the document) and the sticky in this same forum (look at the very first entry of the list).

However, this little conundrum, sparked by your comment about threads, flanges and sealing way back on the thread, is beyond the point. The point being your external watercooler. So this will be my last post on the matter. You've provided the pictures, I've provided the links, IMHO there's enough documentation on the subject already to draw a conclusion.

Now let's focus on what really matters, which is the "Xtreme External Cooler"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

I have a pretty large collection of top end gear... something like a dozen or more blocks. And I am just as fanatical about this as you:)

:lsfight:

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You certainly do have a collection ^^. I only have barbs, fittings and components ordered by mistake or without properly documenting myself first (can you hear SFF800 somewhere?).

And yes, unfortunately I was born anally retentive :D

Lol

I am not really a plumber...and have much to learn.

Lookin' awesome so far :eek: Can't wait to see this project completed :up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyberDruid

Yep I read that thread too and also have read the pdf from Iwaki on it.

I have yet to run the pump. THe reasoning in the thread boiled down to air bubbles if the inlet was facing to earth. SO if that speculation is correct then NP.

However I do know that some motors are not designed to run vertically as this may create wear on a thrust washer or other bearing. That is a legitimate concern. I studied what little I could dig up on the pump and have not been able to find anything useful.

If anyone knows about this spread the word.

I am going to run it this way and see what happens...it's all I can think to do.

Without using elbows or really reworking the whole layout from scratch I can't see how I would be able to do it horizontally.

To run horizontal I would have to discard my compartmental design and run the pump topside beside the rad.I was hoping to minimize the noise and heat of the pump by running it in a seperate Sonex lined chamber.

TBH I wish there was a conclusive word on that so I could know whether to scrap the project and start over or just go for it...

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I think we should just ask Iwaki, they should know if it is a technical problem with the motor or just a minor issue in regards to airbubbles.

Nice build as always!:up:

One thing I've started using for thread sealant I think works even better is a product called "Yamabond", it's a flexible gasket sealant type material meant for putting motorcycle engine cases back to gether. I like it best because it has a strong and sticky type consistency that bonds very well yet it's not so strong that it's permanent.

You can pick it up at most motorcycle type parts stores...I really like it and it's designed to be resistant to all sorts of engine heat and chemicals so it should be more than up to the job.

I like the aluminim angle framework, I've been thinking of different ideas on possibly building myself a stand alone cooler as well. Thanks!:up:

Thanks Martin. Ira-K over at OCN likes RTV sealant and I picked up some of that--which would be great as long as it does not get twisted hard enough to break the seal. I will check it out.

Here is some info that might explain a bit about the heatercore flow characteristics.

The prototype is complete. I left the IwakiRD30 in a vertical position. On the next build I will engineer it to mount horizontal. For the limited amount of time it will be run in the prototype I am not concerned.

Here's the metering manifold I built to attach to the cooler. I considered using a prebuilt manifold and I considered using special disconnects and decided to just use what was locally available at this point.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/232/test004hy2.jpg
It's as low a restriction and as inexpensive a metering device as I could concoct. The 1/2 acrylic enclosure makes it sit upright.

I ran in the rig right away using 3 Storm Waterblocks and then fabricated a simple backplane/control panel.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7259/clean101lz5.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7259/clean101lz5.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4787/done006dn5.jpg
The 110VAC is split to two fuses (7A slow blow and 3A slow blow) and then to two water-shielded toggles that send it along to a 100 watt 12VDC PSU and 150 Watt 24VDC PSU. A pair of safety switches interrupt the 24VDC and the 12VDC. A large Ohmite 25W 2A rated Rhesostat controls the 6 Panaflo on the PA 120.3, a smaller 5W rheostat controls the 2 POS fans on the Bonnie Heatercore. The Enlobal intake for the lower compartment runs on full.

I then lined the enclosure with 1" Sonex and reapplied the one removable side panel with industrial velcro. For all intents and purposes the cooler is ready for load testing.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2163/done014sk0.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1553/done022vk9.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/964/done023fx3.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4691/done025zm9.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1015/done026qh0.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5983/done027ge2.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4766/done028ec8.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/805/done029wz4.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5969/done030cu1.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4043/done032yl0.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2116/done033fp9.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7789/done037zu8.jpg
:)

Load test to follow.

looking good!

I need some more rigs though! I don't want to tear into any of my babies...

So I think I will have to do a little shopping...a waterblock for the HD 2900XT would be an easy way to check this monster out on the Abit AA8XE on the tech station, the 550 ES on there puts out a fair amount of heat...

I Bow down....... OMG

This whole thing is so freaking Incredible! I dunno what I would do with it....but damn I want one! :)

Great Job! I am speechless!

lol

Well the proof will be how well it cools...I have a litle Folding Farm of indivdually cooled rigs and I was thinking to consolidate and reduce the overall hum...