DDR3-1600 Supertalent chip Micron Z9 - Very fast modules

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Originally Posted by DMH

I've got more points with an E6420 at 3392Mhz and a 8600GTS O'ced to 650/870;)
link

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You are right! I do not know what happened with C1E and Intel Enhanched Speedstep on into bios settings, but this was no so good for performance, maybe these functionalities introduce some form of instability.
Now there are the right pics, before to make the test I disabled C1E and Intel Enhanced Speedstep from bios. The video card was at stock settings:

3DMark01 DDR2-2000 8-8-8-24@2,25v (CPU was at 7x500 but an video card at stock settings)
http://www.atris.it/Forum/photoplog/..._DDR2-2000.JPG

2.25v for 2ghz cas8? :o

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Originally Posted by saaya

2.25v for 2ghz cas8? :o

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Sorry, I do not understand the meaning of your observation.
Do you think it is too much voltage or do you think it is a fine voltage to run 3DMark01 at these frequency/timings?

i think he means it's fairly low voltage for such a great overclock and tight latencies :)

i'll be testing some micron Z9s soon too.......can't wait :D

I think he is impressed

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Originally Posted by T_M

I think he is impressed

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why did you say that? :D ;)

I think micron made a big strike whit this Z9 chip, and after SuperTalent built a great RAM kit. :up:

The very amazing thing is that all tests are under AIR cooling, and with stock components (no vmod an so on), so everybody can reach these results with a little bit of patience.

actually i thought 2.25v is a bit much :D
does it need 2.25v to reach 2ghz cas8 or did you just bump it up to make sure its stable while you bench?

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Originally Posted by saaya

actually i thought 2.25v is a bit much :D
does it need 2.25v to reach 2ghz cas8 or did you just bump it up to make sure its stable while you bench?

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To be stable with 3D bechmarking you need this voltage.

I experienced during my benchmark sessions, that DDR3 Micron Z9 powered are stable with Everest, Sandra, SuperPI at lower voltage, with the same settings (frequency, timings and so on) if you want to run 3D benchmark you need more voltage on RAM to be stable.

In the same Xtreme Bandwidth forum there are other test sessions with DDR3 Micron Z9 powered, but there are really fews or any test sesions with 3D benchmarks, and I do not know if I made something wrong or if this is a normal behavior for DDR3 Micron Z9
Anyway you have to think that there are DDR3 Micron Z9 powered with default settings at 1.9v guaranteed by manufacturers and 2.25v are "only" 0.35v more than the default voltage (think about DDR2 Micron D9 with stock voltage at 2.2v-2.3v that are forced to work at 2.7v-3.0v during benchmark sessions).

nice results. Its great to see ram running at 2GHz :up:

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Originally Posted by v_parrello

I experieced during my benchmark sessions, that DDR3 Micron Z9 powered are stable with Everest, Sandra, SuperPI at lower voltage, with the same settings (frequency, timings and so on) if you want to run 3D benchmark you need more voltage on RAM to be stable......... I do not know if I made something wrong or if this is a normal behavior for DDR3 Micron Z9

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I have experienced similar behaviour with DDR2. All sythetic benches run fine, even orthos for 5hrs+ is fine, but need to slightly loosen one or more timings, or slightly increase the vdimm for 100% gaming stability, and 100% 3D bench stability.
I have found real ram stress to be in this order: gaming>3D benches (eg: 3d mark 01 lobby)>orthos>any other synthetic bench (eg: spi & sandra)

i know about the 3d thing, but i still think 2.25v is a lot.

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Originally Posted by v_parrello

Anyway you have to think that there are DDR3 Micron Z9 powered with default settings at 1.9v guaranteed by manufacturers and 2.25v are "only" 0.35v more than the default voltage

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i wouldnt calculate it that way, the default voltage is what the ic mfg sets, not the vendor of the memory module or videocard etc. the stock voltage is 1.5 and 2.25 is a big boost of over 40%. thats like running a c2d above 2v, its a lot!

id recommend you to be careful with those volts, even with good cooling i doubt this memory will live long. but if you prove me wrong ill be very happy :D

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Originally Posted by saaya

i know about the 3d thing, but i still think 2.25v is a lot.

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Sorry, but I continue do not undestand the meanings of your argumentations. With air cooling (22-24 °C ambient temperature) to perform 3D benchmarks this is the voltage that these RAM needs, whit a lower voltage they are not able to close 3D benchmark (or they close the benchmark but with very low performances).
With other colling type like cascade, LN2, dry ice and other type of extreme cooling, maybe it could be another question. In this forum there are a lot of tests with other RAM powered with Micron Z9, and I had a look and I never saw 3D test at DDR3-2000 MHz 8-8-8, thre is only one test but the guys who made the test did not specify the voltage.
It is also possible that there are some RAM kits more lucky than mine and with these kits is possible to close 3D benchmark maybe at 2.1v-2.2v but the kit in my hands needs 2.25v.
Do you have some personal experience with DDR3 or same example where somebody performs 3D benchmarking at DDR3-2000 MHz 8-8-8 with lower voltage or with some special settings that I have ignored in my tests? Please tell me, I will be happy to have more informatin about these topics!:)

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Originally Posted by saaya

i wouldnt calculate it that way, the default voltage is what the ic mfg sets, not the vendor of the memory module or videocard etc. the stock voltage is 1.5 and 2.25 is a big boost of over 40%. thats like running a c2d above 2v, its a lot!

id recommend you to be careful with those volts, even with good cooling i doubt this memory will live long. but if you prove me wrong ill be very happy :D

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Here we are talking about extreme benchmarking and it is normal to have in this forum high voltages for benchmarking purposes. I know very well that with voltages higher than recomended by manifacturer, and withouth adeguate cooling you colud kill the RAM modules. :D

You have not to consider the JEDEC standard voltage for DDR3 that is 1.5v as you said, the RAM chips manifacturer build components that are able to work with higher voltage. At the moment the DDR3 RAM built with Micron Z9 chips are lifetime guaranteed by RAM manifacturer with 1.8v-1.9v (and not with 1.5v that is standard JEDEC voltage). It is like DDR2 powered with Micron D9 that are lifetime guaranteed at specified (by manifacturer) voltage 2.1-2.2v with GMH and 2.3v-2.4v with GKX (and not with the JEDEC standard voltage is only 1.8v). I do not think that all RAM manifacturers are crazy to guarantee something that could be very dangerous for them. :D

I hope to explain well what I mean. :)

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Originally Posted by v_parrello

Sorry, but I continue do not undestand the meanings of your argumentations. With air cooling (22-24 °C ambient temperature) to perform 3D benchmarks this is the voltage that these RAM needs, whit a lower voltage they are not able to close 3D benchmark (or they close the benchmark but with very low performances).
With other colling type like cascade, LN2, dry ice and other type of extreme cooling, maybe it could be another question. In this forum there are a lot of tests with other RAM powered with Micron Z9, and I had a look and I never saw 3D test at DDR3-2000 MHz 8-8-8, thre is only one test but the guys who made the test did not specify the voltage.
It is also possible that there are some RAM kits more lucky than mine and with these kits is possible to close 3D benchmark maybe at 2.1v-2.2v but the kit in my hands needs 2.25v.
Do you have some personal experience with DDR3 or same example where somebody performs 3D benchmarking at DDR3-2000 MHz 8-8-8 with lower voltage or with some special settings that I have ignored in my tests? Please tell me, I will be happy to have more informatin about these topics!:)

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sorry, thats not what i meant, i meant from my experience this high voltage is not safe. whether this mem needs it to run one speed with one timing or not doesnt change that its quite high and imo dangerous.
im just saying be careful not to fry this nice mem :D

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Originally Posted by v_parrello

Here we are talking about extreme benchmarking and it is normal to have in this forum high voltages for benchmarking purposes. I know very well that with voltages higher than recomended by manifacturer, and withouth adeguate cooling you colud kill the RAM modules. :D

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true, and its normal that when people post results with high volts that others post and say be careful with that high voltage! :D

and i think even with good cooling this voltage is not safe, maybe i was just unlucky or it was a crappy stick, but i killed one with less than 2.25v and within only 2 hours :(

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Originally Posted by v_parrello

You have not to consider the JEDEC standard voltage for DDR3 that is 1.5v as you said, the RAM chips manifacturer build components that are able to work with higher voltage. At the moment the DDR3 RAM built with Micron Z9 chips are lifetime guaranteed by RAM manifacturer with 1.8v-1.9v (and not with 1.5v that is standard JEDEC voltage). It is like DDR2 powered with Micron D9 that are lifetime guaranteed at specified (by manifacturer) voltage 2.1-2.2v with GMH and 2.3v-2.4v with GKX (and not with the JEDEC standard voltage is only 1.8v). I do not think that all RAM manifacturers are crazy to guarantee something that could be very dangerous for them. :D

I hope to explain well what I mean. :)

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i dont understand how you can trust the ram mfg that much.
how long is micron ddr3 even available?
so not even micron can know if 1.8v is stable in long term.
and they built the ics to run with 1.5v, maybe with 1.6v since the voltages fluctuate, but thats it. thats all that micron guarantees and thats all they care about. im pretty sure they didnt even test if the memory runs stable at higher voltages for a long term.

so micron says 1.5v is fine, then the mem mfg says if 1.5v is fine then 1.8v must be fine as well, then you say if 1.8v is fine then 2.25v is fine as well, then somebody reads this thread and thinks if you say 2.25v is fine then 2.5v will be fine as well.

understand what i mean? :D
i just wanted to put this in perspective by saying thats a very high voltage :P

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Originally Posted by saaya

sorry, thats not what i meant, i meant from my experience this high voltage is not safe. whether this mem needs it to run one speed with one timing or not doesnt change that its quite high and imo dangerous.
im just saying be careful not to fry this nice mem :D

true, and its normal that when people post results with high volts that others post and say be careful with that high voltage! :D

and i think even with good cooling this voltage is not safe, maybe i was just unlucky or it was a crappy stick, but i killed one with less than 2.25v and within only 2 hours :(


i dont understand how you can trust the ram mfg that much.
how long is micron ddr3 even available?
so not even micron can know if 1.8v is stable in long term.
and they built the ics to run with 1.5v, maybe with 1.6v since the voltages fluctuate, but thats it. thats all that micron guarantees and thats all they care about. im pretty sure they didnt even test if the memory runs stable at higher voltages for a long term.

so micron says 1.5v is fine, then the mem mfg says if 1.5v is fine then 1.8v must be fine as well, then you say if 1.8v is fine then 2.25v is fine as well, then somebody reads this thread and thinks if you say 2.25v is fine then 2.5v will be fine as well.

understand what i mean? :D
i just wanted to put this in perspective by saying thats a very high voltage :P

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Now I hope we undertstand what we are saying each to other:
- 2.25v, generally speaking, is very high for DDR3 RAM modules;
- these modules (the ones in my hands) to run 3D benchmarks at 2000 MHz 8-8-8 for benchmarking purposes (not for daily use) needs 2.25v.

This is all, and I hope with this we clarify definitively the question.
:toast:

Now I think we are going too much OT, and please, it is better to continue to talk about performances of these modules that are really great. If we would still talk about RAM general technical questions we could continue in private way or in an appropriate thread. :)

hehehe, my bad, i should have been more clear :toast:
yes, the performance is awesome! :banana:

Nice Ram and very good review :clap: Thank you for taking the time :up:

Can you please add prices? Sorry if I missed them somewhere.

600$ for 2gb :D

The price it is about 590$-600$ for the kit, and he is aligned with avg price of similar products with same specs. This is the only thing not so fine for DDR3 RAM, but this is what happen every time a new technology start to be available.:D

will this fatbody Z9 be envied like fatbody D9 was in a year? :p:

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Originally Posted by Revv23

will this fatbody Z9 be envied like fatbody D9 was in a year? :p:

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It could be! :p:

At the moment the real thing is that this RAM are built with 8 128x8 configured chips and every chip have 86 balls.

Micron has in catalogue (as you can see in datasheets downloaded directly from Micron web site) 512x4, 128x8, 256x4, 64x16 chips.
For actual and known components, 512x4 are 82-ball chips , 128x8 and 256x4 are 86-ball chips and 64x16 are 96-ball chips. There are not fatbody and "normalbody" chips, the chips are different only in ball number but dimension are the same (9mm x 15.5mm).

Here there is another result obtained for superPI 1M contest with CPU working at 3.6 GHZ.
http://www.atris.it/Forum/photoplog/...1M_3.6_GHz.JPG

These RAM rocks, now I am trying to make better playing with memory timings and subtimings.

:clap: Very Good Result, Master V_parrello.

I got the W1600UX2G7 this week and I try it on my Gigabyte P35C-DS3R using even 2.3V, but still the ram cannot work on its default ( 1600 7-7-7-18 ) I search for it's spec. and say it only test on asus p5k3-deluxe. And I search for many other test report also they are using p5k3-deluxe. I'm wondering if I got something wrong in the BIOS or just the ram compatible problem. :confused:

whats the max speed it works stable at?
does it work stable at lower speeds?
try both sticks individually maybe one is defective.
and did you contact gigabyte about this already?

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Originally Posted by emo

:clap: Very Good Result, Master V_parrello.

I got the W1600UX2G7 this week and I try it on my Gigabyte P35C-DS3R using even 2.3V, but still the ram cannot work on its default ( 1600 7-7-7-18 ) I search for it's spec. and say it only test on asus p5k3-deluxe. And I search for many other test report also they are using p5k3-deluxe. I'm wondering if I got something wrong in the BIOS or just the ram compatible problem. :confused:

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This could be trouble with motherboard bios support . A lot of bios motherboard are not able to work with RAM frequencies higher than 1333 MHz.

Acoording what I see at gigabyte website (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=2551) your motherboard is certified to work with DDR2 1066 MHz and DDR3 1333 MHz.
According too with certified memory list for your motherboard (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/...-p35c-ds3r.pdf) thre are not DDR3 memories with frequency higher than 1333 MHz.

I think it could be only a problem with bios support, I hope that they will be release a new bios very soon.
At the moment for P5K3 too Asus says "Dual-channel support for DDR3 1333/1066/800 MHz ", but in June they released a lot of bios and the trouble was solved.

Try to ask to Gigabyte if they have planned a new bios release that solve this trouble.

With some tweaks I was able to do better SuperPi 1M result (at 3.6 GHz CPU):
http://www.atris.it/Forum/photoplog/...6_GHz_best.JPG

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Originally Posted by saaya

whats the max speed it works stable at?
does it work stable at lower speeds?
try both sticks individually maybe one is defective.
and did you contact gigabyte about this already?

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The max. I can try is only about 1400 CL7，I've sent a email to gigabyte today.

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Originally Posted by v_parrello

This could be trouble with motherboard bios support . A lot of bios motherboard are not able to work with RAM frequencies higher than 1333 MHz.

Acoording what I see at gigabyte website (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=2551) your motherboard is certified to work with DDR2 1066 MHz and DDR3 1333 MHz.
According too with certified memory list for your motherboard (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/...-p35c-ds3r.pdf) thre are not DDR3 memories with frequency higher than 1333 MHz.

I think it could be only a problem with bios support, I hope that they will be release a new bios very soon.
At the moment for P5K3 too Asus says "Dual-channel support for DDR3 1333/1066/800 MHz ", but in June they released a lot of bios and the trouble was solved.

Try to ask to Gigabyte if they have planned a new bios release that solve this trouble.

With some tweaks I was able to do better SuperPi 1M result (at 3.6 GHz CPU):
http://www.atris.it/Forum/photoplog/...6_GHz_best.JPG

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:) Thanks a lot.

just read a review that says so!