GTX360 or PA120.3 ? which 1 to buy ?

I have the GTX360 and it seems to be working fine for me. This is the Gen2 version, not really sure what that means. I have my QX6700 at 3.3g @ 1.45v. Ambient temp right now is 20c and I'm idleing at 39c and loads at 54c. Those temps are fairly respectable I think.

Funny thing is everyone says how you need high cfm fans to get the performance outta this rad. I only get about 2-3c difference between 30%-100% with my 71cfm fans. Anything below 50% fan speed and the rad is silent. I've been very happy with mine.

I still might have to buy a PA though...just to see for myself. :toast:

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

You really think the barbs are what make a rad good or bad? You know what, since you have so much money to waste on silenx fans why don't you buy some rads and test them?

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Serial do you have a PA120.3? Have you tested rads yourself?

I dont feel like quoting cause I am tired but to whoever said that the PA series are better with anything less then 130 CFM... you are wrong... before you go and make up numbers please just back up and think for a minute. Tests done by BillA, Marci ect... show that around the 70-90 CFM mark All the top contenders close the gap on the PA series. Below 50 CFM however... nothing can touch the PA series rads.

And to whoever said Marci posted an extensive review... this does not include th e GTX series as of yet AFAIK. I will search into this as it has been a month or so since I have been reading regularly on here.

What it comes down to is if you want the "Best" get a PA series rad. If you are using 100+ CFM fans then the GTX series are an option. If you want silence then get a PA. I went with a GTX based on size alone... pic below will show why.

http://pics.livejournal.com/bun_bun/pic/0009y2tf

A thermochill would not fit in there lol. BTW I am using Panaflo's FBA12G12U's @ 7v in push pull...

Thermochill DOES NOT support this forum. Marci is NOT a sales rep. He founded thermochill like 5 years ago because he wanted a better radiator. He merely posts actively on this forum because he's an enthusiast like us. He posts on all the forums that are related to watercooling.

The PA series rads have been independently tested by BillA (during which tests he has results for a BI GTS for reference).

I have a swiftech rad because the thermochills are so darned expensive. If I had the cash, however, I'd get a thermochill rad. and you can't accuse bias from me, because I hate this forum. lol, jk.

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As far as the TC sponsorship, not even sure about that, and have my doubts.

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There is NO sponsorship deal between ThermoChill and XS. I was a member on XS long before ThermoChill ever existed, and have remained one since ThermoChill was founded.

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I have seen those stats and I find it funny that they were made BY Thermochill

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ALL testing on ThermoChill rads was done INDEPENDANTLY. The only testing done by myself was comparative of PA Model to PA Model and included NONE of the competitions' rads.

http://www.thermochill.com/PATesting - all tests done independantly by BillAdams of Thermal Management Testing - the guy who DESIGNED the Swiftech MCR series of Radiators, and the Coolingworks radiators... so highly doubt there's any bias going in ThermoChill's direction there.

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Bottom line, find your own facts, don't trust what people say here. That's what I did and i'm glad that I did

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Obviously the "facts" that you found weren't "facts" in the slightest *shrug*.

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Originally Posted by quiet

Thermochill supports this board and vise versa, so any opinions on who is better will be bias. I have never used the PA120.3 but I have a GTX360 and it gets better temps than any PA120.3 with the same setup (E6600+8800GTX) that I have seen on this board.

Bottom line, find your own facts, don't trust what people say here. That's what I did and i'm glad that I did :)

( Don't bother flaming, I won't read it :) )

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I have a PA120.3 and a GTX 480. I've tried them both on my E6700 and 8800GTX in SLI. Although we aren't comparing apples to apples here (I don't have a GTX 360) the 480 beats the 120.3 hands down, no contest. If you're cooling a rig with dual 8800s and really want to get your temps down definitely go with 480 as the 120.3 does a mediocre job on that configuration. If you have a single 8800 it will probably be plenty, but not for SLI rigs.

Then again it depends what temps you're looking for. On the aforementioned hardware with no overclock I got temps up to 61c on the GPUs under load and it raised ambient room temps from around 21 to 25/26. On the 480 the gpu load temps would typically remain around 55c. There was an overall increase in CPU and MB temps as well, probably because of the hotter GPUs. Idle temps were a few degrees higher on the 120.3. Having that extra 120 on the end makes a difference with dual 8800s....would like to see a PA120.4 heh.

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Originally Posted by masaville

I have a PA120.3 and a GTX 480. I've tried them both on my E6700 and 8800GTX in SLI. Although we aren't comparing apples to apples here (I don't have a GTX 360) the 480 beats the 120.3 hands down, no contest. If you're cooling a rig with dual 8800s and really want to get your temps down definitely go with 480 as the 120.3 does a mediocre job on that configuration. If you have a single 8800 it will probably be plenty, but not for SLI rigs.

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Let me get this straight. You are passing an overclocked Core 2 and two G80s through a single radiator? Good luck.

Incidently, from your empirical point of view, what's the differential between the GTX480 and the PA120.3 ?

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Originally Posted by IanY

Let me get this straight. You are passing an overclocked Core 2 and two G80s through a single radiator? Good luck.

Incidently, from your empirical point of view, what's the differential between the GTX480 and the PA120.3 ?

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No overclock - just stock. Now that I have a 480 and a 120.3 I was thinking of getting an extra pump and using both. One for the CPU and one for the GPUs. Is it worth it do that or not really?

Btw, it wasn't empirical. I recorded idle and load temps using the standard apps, but I don't have them with me which is why I can't post them. The point of the post though is just to make a note that a 480 is a better choice for dual 8800s though, not to knock the 120.3, which I'm sure is fine for other configs. If you want lower temps on dual 8800s, especially if you're overclocked, then you really need a 480, two 120.3s, or something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by masaville

No overclock - just stock. Now that I have a 480 and a 120.3 I was thinking of getting an extra pump and using both. One for the CPU and one for the GPUs. Is it worth it do that or not really?

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Of course its worth every penny. Putting two G80s together with a cpu on one radiator is not the best of ideas, no matter how good the radiator. You will do well to seperate into two independent loops.

You haven't answered my question though... how much better is the GTX480 compared to the PA120.3 ?

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Originally Posted by IanY

Of course its worth every penny. Putting two G80s together with a cpu on one radiator is not the best of ideas, no matter how good the radiator. You will do well to seperate into two independent loops.

You haven't answered my question though... how much better is the GTX480 compared to the PA120.3 ?

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Don't have the 'official' numbers in front of me I can roughly tell you. About 6c on load with the GPUs, 4-5c on the MB, and 4-6c on the CPU. That's based on an ambient room temp around 21c. That's what I discovered this weekend. 480 is quite large though and unless you have a monster case it's difficult to mount, whereas the PA120.3 fits nicely on the top or inside many cases.

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Originally Posted by masaville

Don't have the 'official' numbers in front of me I can roughly tell you. About 6c on load with the GPUs, 4-5c on the MB, and 4-6c on the CPU. That's based on an ambient room temp around 21c. That's what I discovered this weekend. 480 is quite large though and unless you have a monster case it's difficult to mount, whereas the PA120.3 fits nicely on the top or inside many cases.

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Thank you for the information. That was all I was after. Honestly, I would much prefer multiple Thermochills rather than relying on a GTX480. I have seen some people mount the GTX480 with a RadBox at the back, but it is quite unsightly.

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Originally Posted by masaville

Don't have the 'official' numbers in front of me I can roughly tell you. About 6c on load with the GPUs, 4-5c on the MB, and 4-6c on the CPU. That's based on an ambient room temp around 21c.

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/me bites tongue

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Originally Posted by Cathar

/me bites tongue

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Appreciate if you could share your expertise. We can all benefit from your knowledge and insights. Please don't muzzle yourself.

IIRC according to Marci the GTX480 starts to outperform the pa120.3 at the 1000-1200rpm mark.

LOL.

Okay. Here's my thoughts. Make of it what you will.

The only way that devices change in temperature by changing the radiator is through a change in the water temperatures. Flow rates also have an impact, but overall the radiator, especially a Thermochill, is going to be a very minor part of overall flow resistance. Low enough to be negligible in a loop with many blocks - so let's discount any changes in flow rates as being part of the factor, and focus on water temperatures alone.

Said person is reporting what appear to be a 5C delta (average) between the two radiators, corresponding to a 5C water temp delta. If we assume that the per-120.1 sectional cooling performance was equal between the two radiators, then this mathematically that the water temperature on the PA120.3 would have to be at least 20C above ambient.

At 20C above ambient, even with 3 x Nexus fans (38cfm) at 12v, we're talking a total heat load of around 650W required to generate such a large water temp delta, at the very least.

I cannot believe that there is 650W of heat load in such a system. I believe that other factors are at play.

I do not know what. I would be most curious to know the water temp rise above ambient air intake delta is.

Many thanks for the valuable insights.

but cathar, would temp differences on the cpu, gpu, and nb between systems necessarily be equal to coolant temp difference between same two systems? the thermal resistance of each wb would then make coolant temp diffs less, no? or am I stupid at math.

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Originally Posted by snowwie

but cathar, would temp differences on the cpu, gpu, and nb between systems necessarily be equal to coolant temp difference between same two systems?

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??

I thought we were talking about the same system here.

by diff systems I meant diff rads. I thought if you change the rad (and rad alone) it's a diff cooling system.

edit: so does what I'm saying not make sense?

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Originally Posted by snowwie

by diff systems I meant diff rads. I thought if you change the rad (and rad alone) it's a diff cooling system.

edit: so does what I'm saying not make sense?

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If it means anything, I sure don't understand what you're trying to get across. I'm sure it's a good point, I just don't understand it.

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Originally Posted by snowwie

by diff systems I meant diff rads. I thought if you change the rad (and rad alone) it's a diff cooling system.

edit: so does what I'm saying not make sense?

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I already explained, and factored in, the differences in the system with respect to changing the radiator. Re-read what I wrote.

Aside from the minor differences in flow rate, about the only thing that should change is the water temperature, given a constant heat load.

I personally think that something else was occuring in that setup. The differences in water temperature alone simply cannot be that large between those two radiators, with that sort of heat load. Controlled tests in fact show that for weak fans, there'd be little to no difference at all. For stronger fans, maybe some difference, but certainly not 4-6C. Something else is occurring.

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Originally Posted by phelan1777

Serial do you have a PA120.3? Have you tested rads yourself?

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No but what I meant was, do you think the barbs affect the rad's performance more than the rad itself? If so then people wouldn't be buying better rads, they would be buying better barbs (which doesn't make that much sense lol).

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Originally Posted by serialk11r

No but what I meant was, do you think the barbs affect the rad's performance more than the rad itself? If so then people wouldn't be buying better rads, they would be buying better barbs (which doesn't make that much sense lol).

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I seriously doubt the barbs are affecting the over all performance of the rad.

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Originally Posted by phelan1777

I seriously doubt the barbs are affecting the over all performance of the rad.

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Exactly, that guy was saying the testing was biased because it was done with different barbs....

Cathar, all I was arguing was this point:

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Originally Posted by Cathar

Said person is reporting what appear to be a 5C delta (average) between the two radiators, corresponding to a 5C water temp delta.

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But now I think I'm wrong, nvm.