Mounting Thermochill PA120.3 in Silverstone TJ-07

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Originally Posted by anodynejd

Wow that much of a difference uh. I didn't mean to insult you about you suggesting something for performance. In fact you have a reputation for being a little overkill on what you will do for performance. I just thought that there wouldn't be much difference between push and pull that's all. And IMHO 1-2 degree's isn't anything to get my panties in a bunch about when water cooling. Chances are it isn't going to hurt my hardware any or give me any real overclocking benifit so all it does is feed my ego a little bit knowing my water is 1-2 degrees colder. But I guess that is why this place is xtreme.

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You may not have intended to be condescending but we give advice to ppl like you that obviously can benefit from it... & yes I as well as a good many others here take great pride in our reputation for being "a little overkill"

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Originally Posted by OCme

You may not have intended to be condescending but we give advice to ppl like you that obviously can benefit from it... & yes I as well as a good many others here take great pride in our reputation for being "a little overkill"

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:rolleyes:

:clap:

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Originally Posted by OCme

You may not have intended to be condescending but we give advice to ppl like you that obviously can benefit from it... & yes I as well as a good many others here take great pride in our reputation for being "a little overkill"

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Hmm.
I would have assumed that the most "extreme" answer to any/all questions like this would be "try it both ways and see which gives the best performance".

Simply claiming that push OR pull is always the best way to go is absurd.
Different layouts/components will respond differently.
One way may tend to be preferred but nothing is completely cut and dried.

all else being equal, pull always beats push. of course we cant factor in everything else, we're not psychic =p

:toast: Lmao...

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Originally Posted by creidiki

all else being equal, pull always beats push. of course we cant factor in everything else, we're not psychic =p

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Originally Posted by Marci (Thermochill)@Pro/Forums

All rads were tested with fans pushing. Shrouds were not used other than on PA160 as requirement for fan mounting (as shrouds don't exist for PA120 series)

Doubt pulling over pushing would make any significant difference to the avg user.

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All else being equal, I saw no performance difference in my setup swapping between push and pull. Pull was easier to implement so that's the way I went.

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Originally Posted by septim

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Originally Posted by clokker

Which had zero impact on the loop's performance.

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Originally Posted by clokker

Yup, no doubt about it- 90 deg fittings will lessen the flowrate.

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you're contradicting yourself...

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Not at all.
Flowrate is a contributing factor to performance but not an absolute measure of it.
It's easily possible to build an ultra high flowing system that is outperformed by a lesser flow loop.
In my case, the inclusion of two 90 deg fittings had an (undenied) effect on the flowrate but obviously not enough of an impact to noticably change the performance.

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Originally Posted by clokker

All else being equal, I saw no performance difference in my setup swapping between push and pull. Pull was easier to implement so that's the way I went.

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;) good choice

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Originally Posted by OCme

;) good choice

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Why thanks.
When I swap out the Coolingworks rad for the Thermochill PA next week it will be in push configuration.
Mainly cause that's the way it's already setup (I'm lazy) and it displays the fans better (running AeroCool 140's on her).

So let me get this straight clokker you did not notice any performance difference between a push fan and a pull fan? Yet people swear up and down that it will give a difference.

You also have two 90 degree bends in your loop and did not notice any performance difference. Yet people swear up and down that it will kill performance.

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Originally Posted by anodynejd

So let me get this straight clokker you did not notice any performance difference between a push fan and a pull fan? Yet people swear up and down that it will give a difference.

You also have two 90 degree bends in your loop and did not notice any performance difference. Yet people swear up and down that it will kill performance.

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"Your mileage may vary" is the phrase that springs immediately to mind.

There is no doubting the theoretical correctness of either of the above two assertions...90 deg. fittings obviously will impact flowrate and pull is the generally preferred fan orientation.
The real question is "what happens if I break these rules?"
In my case, nothing.
The world didn't end, water didn't spurt all over my motherboard and my chip(s) kept burbling along.

When one tries to apply all the theoretical guidelines to a waterloop build sometimes eggs must be broken.
If a 90deg. fitting saves several inches of tube run or prevents a potential kink then which is the correct path...stick to the "rules" or bend to the inevitable?

Besides, half of the "rules" that you hear spouted are merely repetitions of things that people have heard but never actually tested for themselves.
That's why (as I posted earlier) my response to many questions is "try it yourself and see what happens".
At the very worst you've wasted some time but gained experience with positing a theory and designing a way to test it.

A fair tradeoff, IMO.

If I may comment.... Clokker may not see much difference between a 90 degree bend and push and pull since he is using a good pump and rad with a heatload that is easily dealt with...

If you increase the heatload...he "might" see more of a difference but whether it is appreciable or significant depends on the individual and situation....(of course going to a PA120.3...he has even better abiltiy to compensate for these issues)

for some here the ultra extreme of the extreme...everything matters....

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Originally Posted by clokker

"Your mileage may vary" is the phrase that springs immediately to mind.

There is no doubting the theoretical correctness of either of the above two assertions...90 deg. fittings obviously will impact flowrate and pull is the generally preferred fan orientation.
The real question is "what happens if I break these rules?"
In my case, nothing.
The world didn't end, water didn't spurt all over my motherboard and my chip(s) kept burbling along.

When one tries to apply all the theoretical guidelines to a waterloop build sometimes eggs must be broken.
If a 90deg. fitting saves several inches of tube run or prevents a potential kink then which is the correct path...stick to the "rules" or bend to the inevitable?

Besides, half of the "rules" that you hear spouted are merely repetitions of things that people have heard but never actually tested for themselves.
That's why (as I posted earlier) my response to many questions is "try it yourself and see what happens".
At the very worst you've wasted some time but gained experience with positing a theory and designing a way to test it.

A fair tradeoff, IMO.

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In refrigeration where lighter than water refrigerants are pumped at much higher pressures a long radius 90 is equal to five feet of additional piping in restriction. So what effect do you think a machined short radius 90 has on a system running at such low pressure?

anodynejd, best would be to take a vote for your peace of mind...

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for some here the ultra extreme of the extreme...everything matters....

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

In refrigeration where lighter than water refrigerants are pumped at much higher pressures a long radius 90 is equal to five feet of additional piping in restriction. So what effect do you think a machined short radius 90 has on a system running at such low pressure?

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well acording to his experience it didn't affect his system. I tend to agree with him that you get to a point where you can't just follow the "rules", but look at it from a case by case situation. You have to ask yourself "what am I trying to acheive?" For most of us on water it is one of two things quiter systems or higher overclocks. So for me I would then try to find out what gives me results on those two things and what doesn't and then act accordingly.

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

So what effect do you think a machined short radius 90 has on a system running at such low pressure?

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In my case, where the "effect" is measured in degrees Celcius- zero.

I think nealh hit the nail on the head.
If one has "overbuilt" the system and heatload doesn't approach capacity then liberties can be taken, either for aesthetic or aural considerations.

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Originally Posted by clokker

In my case, where the "effect" is measured in degrees Celcius- zero.

I think nealh hit the nail on the head.
If one has "overbuilt" the system and heatload doesn't approach capacity then liberties can be taken, either for aesthetic or aural considerations.

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Wow..I finally got something right around here(oops left this off)..I always feel like such a novice

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Originally Posted by nealh

Wow..I finally got something right around..I always feel like such a novice

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:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:

i know the feeling well

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Originally Posted by nealh

Wow..I finally got something right around..I always feel like such a novice

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Meh...
If you do your own testing, gather your own data and form your own conclusions...you'll always be right and won't need anyone else's validation to confirm it.
Clearly, there is no need to reinvent the wheel each time a project is begun but ultimately what works for your particular configuration is all that matters.

The trick is to remember that your particulars do not necessarily become generalities for everyone else.