My Review: Head-On Apply Directly to the forehead

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Originally Posted by Vapor

All nsaids can worsen the degree of asthma (really, on such a small scale though....you'd be hard pressed to ....opiods can assist asthma treatment.

Codeine is absolutely not found OTC in the USA...we're left with Sodium Naproxen (Aleve....another nsaid), Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen.

Because nsaids and APAP do work so different (both effect and side-effect) they can be taken together for really bad pain (but again, if it's that bad that you need to keep up a daily 2.4G Ibuprofen and 4G Acetaminophen regimen, see a doctor). Staying at or below the recommended dosage with acetaminophen is safe and can be sustained with healthy liver function for >12 years. Ibuprofen really doesn't do DAMAGE until you sustain a little more than double the recommended dose. If not taken with food (you'll get fat trying to keep up with your Ibuprofen intake), it may cause irritation or discomfort.

Regarding HeadOn, it's main active ingredient is potassium dichromate, which is used in film developing and should, under no condtion, come in contact with the skin. That's the burn.

EDIT: masterofpuppets, I really don't know if I can keep that opiod separation guide up.....thinking about it

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Right with nsaids and asthma, as asthmatics tend to be atopic. Yet, not a contraindication. Opioids are not generally used for astha, though. Beta2 agonists, mast cell stabilizers, steroids, and other respiratory treatments are better indicated.

Also correct with codeine b/c it may be classified in schedule II. Heck, the US has trouble with pseudoephedrine.

BTW, I do apologize if I've offended anyone. Just wanted to apply pragmatics to the technical discussion of meds.

Ìbuprofen overdoses are actually quite harmless long-term. People have survived monstrous (20g+) doses and survived with NO long-term problems (other than stomach ulcers, but they can be treated). APAP on the other hand, overdoses WILL cause at least minor liver damage, and in large overdoses, necrosis of the liver. Not something you should mess around with.

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Originally Posted by masterofpuppets

Ìbuprofen overdoses are actually quite harmless long-term. People have survived monstrous (20g+) doses and survived with NO long-term problems (other than stomach ulcers, but they can be treated). APAP on the other hand, overdoses WILL cause at least minor liver damage, and in large overdoses, necrosis of the liver. Not something you should mess around with.

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Well, yes, nothing should be overdone. This is why there are recommendations. There are plenty of otc meds that would cause liver damage, but acetaminophen isn't as terrible to require prescription and patient monitoring.

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Originally Posted by wrc06

Well, yes, nothing should be overdone. This is why there are recommendations. There are plenty of otc meds that would cause liver damage, but acetaminophen isn't as terrible to require prescription and patient monitoring.

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I still consider it poison, and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I find NSAID's much more effective, and opioids even more effective. 4 grams of APAP a day, in chronic use, could easily cause liver damage. As far as I know, most brands don't even warn that chronic use could be detrimental to the liver.

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Originally Posted by masterofpuppets

I still consider it poison, and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I find NSAID's much more effective, and opioids even more effective. 4 grams of APAP a day, in chronic use, could easily cause liver damage. As far as I know, most brands don't even warn that chronic use could be detrimental to the liver.

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To each their own, as everyone here in the US has the right to decide their treatment options.

MOST DRUGS ARE POISONS B/C THEY ARE NOT NATURALLY PRODUCED. What is warfarin? Look that up. Very poisonous, but keeps a lot of ppl alive from throwing clots.

Like I mentioned in previous post, 4g tylenol is a LOT of pain (12 x 325mg ?!!!). Most (not all) ppl would seek medical help with concerns of bleeding, infection, inflammation, cancer, etc.....DEATH. SO, not very common to have someone take 4g tylenol daily for long periods. That is when I say you have to think of differentials --> work 'em up --> start with most common --> hx & phys, cbc with diff, bmp/cmp, lft, esr, rf, ana, xray/ct...

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Originally Posted by wrc06

To each their own, as everyone here in the US has the right to decide their treatment options.

Like I mentioned in previous post, 4g tylenol is a LOT of pain (12 x 325mg ?!!!).

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Isn't the standard dose for you guys 1gram? Over here each pill usually contains 500mg of APAP, and the standard dose is 2 pills.

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Originally Posted by masterofpuppets

Isn't the standard dose for you guys 1gram? Over here each pill usually contains 500mg of APAP, and the standard dose is 2 pills.

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Common strengths are 325 - 500mg.

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Originally Posted by wrc06

MOST DRUGS ARE POISONS B/C THEY ARE NOT NATURALLY PRODUCED.

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That is the biggest BS ever. If natural things are so great then I'll just go eat those mushrooms that are growing in my backyard with a side of nightshade.

Drugs just happen to be easily over-used and easy to screw up.

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Originally Posted by Flak Monkey

That is the biggest BS ever. If natural things are so great then I'll just go eat those mushrooms that are growing in my backyard with a side of nightshade.

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Agreed. Synthetics are JUST as safe (if not more since they know exactly what they are working with, unlike natural drugs which can contain unpredictable dosages and unwanted chemicals). For example, Alpha-Amanitin, one of the most deadly toxins in the world, and guess what? It's produced naturally and found in many species of Amanita fungi. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by masterofpuppets

Agreed. Synthetics are JUST as safe (if not more since they know exactly what they are working with, unlike natural drugs which can contain unpredictable dosages and unwanted chemicals). For example, Alpha-Amanitin, one of the most deadly toxins in the world, and guess what? It's produced naturally and found in many species of Amanita fungi. :rolleyes:

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It makes your brain swell. Some people sell dried amanita muscaria (sp?) mushrooms up here and pass them off to people as magic mushrooms, even though their effect is caused by the swelling of your brain, and not by a psilocybe.

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Originally Posted by Flak Monkey

That is the biggest BS ever. If natural things are so great then I'll just go eat those mushrooms that are growing in my backyard with a side of nightshade.

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Not natural as in found in nature. :) Natural in terms of physiology means endogenous, not antigens of a sort nor non-self. Natural mushrooms are still not natural to the body, not naturally produced. Yeah?

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Originally Posted by masterofpuppets

Agreed. Synthetics are JUST as safe (if not more since they know exactly what they are working with, unlike natural drugs which can contain unpredictable dosages and unwanted chemicals). For example, Alpha-Amanitin, one of the most deadly toxins in the world, and guess what? It's produced naturally and found in many species of Amanita fungi. :rolleyes:

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I'm disappointed in you! You talk pharmacokinetics with cyp3a, glutathione, absorption, clearance, and yet do not understand that drugs are not natural to the body. Ever heard of side effects? It's what drugs do.

It's easy as studying the terms themselves - digoxin (digitoxin), botox (botulinum toxin), plant alkaloids, etc...

LOL I hate that commercial it just repeats the same thing over and over

my wife says they use HeadOn or w/e at her work, she says it works great....

all i know about this product is that ill never even try it because the commercials piss me off so much. All i can hope for is that their marketing guy dies...slowly. cancer maybe

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Originally Posted by VulgarHandle

my wife says they use HeadOn or w/e at her work, she says it works great....

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Tell her the main active ingredient....potassium dichromate and it's uses and hazards.

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Originally Posted by mr_knowitall15

all i know about this product is that ill never even try it because the commercials piss me off so much. All i can hope for is that their marketing guy dies...slowly. cancer maybe

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seriously, I don't know why people make some of these commercials.. just makes people NOT want to buy the product

wow. y'all are... smart/experienced.
anyway, between advil and tylenol, advil is the better/safer drug to take? ok cool.
is there anything else (big namebrand) that you can take otc thats better/safer?

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Originally Posted by Repoman

seriously, I don't know why people make some of these commercials.. just makes people NOT want to buy the product

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well i suppose the theory is that you remember it. And thats true. Too bad its remembered in a negative way. One of the most successful ad campaigns i can remember was one they used to play on the radio for a local (i think its not a national chain) jewelry stor called Shane Company. Now at first he says his little sales pitch about the super quality of the diamonds and pearls that he personally hand selects from china or wherever, and then they gave directions, that became a catch phrase that people still remember today. Something to the effect of "Come visit the Shane Co., Just off Arapahoe rd. on Imporia st., one half mile East of I-25." IMO that is a much more effective way to market than annoying the hell out of your target audience. Even funny commercials like Reeboks Terry Tate Office Linebacker, or a lot of Budweisers commercials (especially during the super bowl) work very very well.
*fun fact, in the 4th season of south park, the episode where they were trying to make money by stealing kids tooth fairy money, There was the part where on the news was a little boy that needed a transplant, and they had a "feeling" that the tooth fairy was gonna give hime the $500 they needed for his operation for his recently lost tooth. (charity was gonna give it to him)The news man said "and just in case youre wondering where little billy lives" (so you can help out or something like that)" we're just off Arapahoe road on imporia st, half mile east of I-25. Boy that show has little things that are so much better if youre from colo.

LOL ok doc wut he said...
I agree that the commercial is the worst thing ever broadcast across the horrible cable networks in cable, When I saw it I never even knew what it was about, there isnt really a description in the part caught, but you guys cleared it up right now, after reading all this and absorbing it into my mind, im starting to get a headache, usually advil and a cold shower fix it for me though.. Freezes brain for short time

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Original post: Not a chance in hell I'd use head-on. Aleve works fine for headaches.

AAAaarrrrggghhhh! Great posts but I have only just got up, haven't had any coffee, and don't know much chemistry past year 12 (last year school here is aus). $0.02? It feels like a bag of 2c pieces to the head :) . Enough to give someone a headache...

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Originally Posted by m0da

wow. y'all are... smart/experienced.
anyway, between advil and tylenol, advil is the better/safer drug to take? ok cool.
is there anything else (big namebrand) that you can take otc thats better/safer?

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To be fully honest, APAP is safer if you only need to use it in small amounts every now and again, but if you have a liver condition (hepatitis, cirrhosis, etc), stay clear of it and stick with NSAID's or Opioids. And for the love of god, stay AWAY from Head-On unless you want skin cancer.

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Originally Posted by wrc06

I'm disappointed in you! You talk pharmacokinetics with cyp3a, glutathione, absorption, clearance, and yet do not understand that drugs are not natural to the body. Ever heard of side effects? It's what drugs do.

It's easy as studying the terms themselves - digoxin (digitoxin), botox (botulinum toxin), plant alkaloids, etc...

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Drugs can be harmful or harmless. Most drugs when used correctly have no toxicity. However APAP, like many other substances, is potentially toxic, particularily to those with a weakened liver. The fact that they are not natural to the body makes no difference. Oxygen is not endogenous, yet it's perfectly harmless and we need it to live. Unless of course by not natural to the body, you mean, unwanted by the body. A better example would be alcohol. It's by no means natural to the body (other than small amounts formed in the gut which certain bacteria use to respirate), it has many health problems related to it, however most of these problems are caused by consuming unsafe amounts of alcohol. The liver produces enough Ethanol Dehydrogenase to cope with small to moderate amounts of alcohol, however excess levels of alcohol I believe are metabolized into fat which builds up in the liver, causing fibrosis, cirrhosis, and such. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong there. Let alone the neurological damage large amounts of alcohol can cause. HOWEVER in smaller amounts it is pretty harmless (unless of course your liver isn't functioning correctly). An example of a toxic, but potentially beneficial drug are chemotherapeutic agents such as nitrogen mustards (alkylating agents), methotrexate (anti-metabolites, which are sometimes used to delay worsening of several auto-immune dieases such as rheumatoid arthritis), and several plant alkaloids including vincristine and paclitaxel (vinca alkaloids and taxanes respectively). Their desired action is purely toxic, hence why they have so many side-effects. However the majority of drugs are harmless, have little to no toxicity in therapeutic doses and little to no side-effects. I am not denying that some drugs aren't toxic, but the majority of them really aren't unless used incorrectly.