Please forgive any spelling/grammar mistakes. It's getting late here. :yawn:
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Please forgive any spelling/grammar mistakes. It's getting late here. :yawn:
from bulldog's posts i've definately gained back a lot of respect that i had lost for dfi during the nf2 bios corruption episodes.:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
Thats soo true. Unless a glaring problem comes up that demands a BIOS re-code you get nothing. One of the many reasons DFI is a superior boardmaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
hi all , great forum!! . I would like to know for the time what is the best bios that i can use to have the best results and a link plz to download
thank you in advance.:toast:
Wow, I am certainly glad this thread has calmed down. I am a current owner of this board and at the first plugging in of my cpu I can say that I was certainly concerned.
I have lost an fx-57 and it was devastating so I can understand why someone would be upset at whatever the cause of such an event was.
I have had a good experience all around so far with this board and I hope that another official bios release comes out soon as I'm not quite ready to hop on to the beta bioses on this board quite yet.
I'll stay tuned for updates =)
welcome to XtremeSystems :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by wifi
for what board? :D
cf or nf4 expert?
List some good ones for the Expert please :)Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I expect to see Public announcement soon somewhere with issue/resolution now that we got you in here Mr. DFI representative. All I see you posting so far doesn't have any public announcement, resolutions for those who suffered, other than... Hey, I am DFI rep and I am here. I as well as many others want something solid. Welcome to the forum and hope you enjoy your Horrid stay here (well, for any rep, I can't think otherwsie considering the nature of crowd here) :) Bring us some good news please.
I am in same line of thought as FCG. I can respect company that stand behind it's product. But for those who can't and not willing to, I certainly do raise my voice up. I am the guy in restraunt when I see something wrong will instantly look for manager. Hey I am not paying just for food/product, I am paying for customer service as well.
PS) I didn't get to see the edited comments from FCG. But whatever is remaining is absolutely the way I see things anyway and I am pretty sure there are quite a few forum member in agreement.
This thread reminds me of another popular overclocking board by a different MFG. The rev 1 verision had a nasty habbit of destroying itself every third or fourth time you saved changes to the BIOS. Now that board also had it's own support fourm sponserd by the MFG, but at no time did any company rep ever respond to the issue. I belive we had to wait almost four months, a few days before the release of REV 2, before the MFG released any BIOS that addressed the problem. Anyway I'm glad to see some semi-offical support and a beta bios so soon after discovering the problem.
Keep in mind this is xtreme forums, we do things with expensive equipment that would make most people run in fear. And you should never ever never buy a first generation/ complety redsigned MB if you are worried about your other equipment.
Overclocking is not for the fient of heat or shallow of pocket
thank you very much for the wellcome
i think this conversation is for DFI SLI DR Expert CPU Death Fix and the bios i need is for this board :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
im not using the expert myself, so i hope somebody else will reply to this :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ub3r-L33ch
the latest beta is linked in the first post, thats why i wondered :DQuote:
Originally Posted by wifi
do you want the latest official bios?
jinu117, i hope you have some patience with bulldog and please dont see him as dfi incarnated, he works for a company just like you and me.
thats what its NOT supposed to be in my opinion...i dont recommend the latest products to people who are annoyed by small bugs that will get fixed over time with bios updates, but those bugs shouldnt harm the rest of the system! and in 99% of the new products this hasnt been the case in my expirience. incidents where hardware kills other hardware are fortunately rather scarce.Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang9621
Well, well, well….. I’ve been actively watching, contributing, and defending the Expert since this thread started. Almost to the point that I could have been accused of being on DFI’s payroll. Now I have a problem and although hesitant to point at DFI, I’m not sure where to go with this.
Got up this morning, hit the switch, lights came on, the pump started running, and that’s all she wrote. No post, no video, not even the fan on the X1800 was running. Turned off the power supply for few minutes and tried again, same result….. Brought the box to the shop and pulled it apart. Bench built the board, ram, and video with the same result…… Pulled the Opty and put it in another working box (MSI Neo4), no post. Put the Opty in an Asus Premium and again no post . It was a pretty sweet 170 for the three weeks I’ve had it….. Now it gets even more interesting (and costly), I put an 3000+ in the Expert hit the switch and it looked like a three alarm fire in here. Smoke rolling out of the mosfets instantly. I’ve pulled the 3000+ and it’s still working fortunately……
I’ve ordered another Expert and CPU red label but am now hesitant to fire it up. Any other thoughts here? :mad: :mad:
DFI, if you're intersted I'd be more happy to send you the board and cpu for testing..... Damn I hate it when this happens!
Were you using the bios listed in this thread or an older one when this happened?Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
ouch ...
12-07.. Flashed it the day it was posted.......Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMeatFrog
well that doesnt sound too good..:brick:Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoN3R
the part with the smoke rolling out the case makes me think it was something different then the 3volt chip killer bug,,,, have you tested this power supply with a volt meter or a PSU tester or another board?
what settings were you running the opt 170 and the board at before it died on you,,,,
Read the sig.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
Sorry to hear that m8!!! Exactly same prob i had....! In my case, result a FX-55 and 2GB kit patriot mems dead!!! My Expert works fine until one "nice day"....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
Sorry about your bad luck. It might be Karma biting you in the butt (looks at post #65) :D
Thanks for sucking it up,and reporting what happened,I hope DFi can get this all sorted out soon.
That was a fair statement........:) Regards-Quote:
Originally Posted by man called (E)
Lets get this thread on topic and useful :/
I'm not sure how you get anymore on topic then a 170 going away. Did I miss something?Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashOv3r1De
Do you have anything meaningfull to contribute? I'm looking forward to it...........Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashOv3r1De
I am going to be patient and watch what happens. I already said all I had to at the moment so nothing much else to say other than how DFI redeems itself or fails to do so. as for DFI incarnated... well he is since he decided to step up to plate :) Good luck Mr. Bulldog :)Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Sorry for your loss doc, not a very good xmas pressi :caution:Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
Now I am sure I wont be putting my X2 in this board :cussing:
jinu, hes not dfi incarnated :P
there are many reps on xs that dont want their true identity known, and guess why? because people will see them as thei companies they work for incarnated and either love them for the products of their companies or hate them for the products of the companies they work for. the latter especially is keeping them hiding i guess :D
i can only repeat myself, please be nice to him.
as far as i know hes is on xs in his free time!
pcdog, damn, sorry to hear :(
so the bios dos not fix the issue appearently?
or this is another issue...
i remember that one of mikes boards he sent in had the same thing, some chip probably controlling vcore was burned and the mosfet nearest to it was burned as well.
from my understanding it works like this:
you desing the board and its power circuits to support the range of vcore vdimm etc you want in the final product, usually you add some headroom to have them fully stable etc.
the problem that probably kills hardware is that the voltages are set higher or lower than what they should be. how come?
well how does the mainboard know what voltages to set anyways?
i initially thougt that if you just power it up with everything at default, the power circuit will run at default wich means 1.5v for vcore for example.
but here it starts, 90nm cpus start with 1.4v on the mainboard even with everything set to default.
so the bios configures the power circuit to put out either 1.4v or 1.5v depending on what you you plug in.
this means the default voltage of the power circuit itself, without the bios configuring it, could be 1.4v and gets bumped for 130nm cpus, or it could be 1.5v and gets reduced for 90nm cpus....OR it could be a completely different voltage! and thats where things get interesting.
as far as i know variable voltages are produced using one feed voltage wich should be above the maximum voltage you want as a result.
so if you want to be able to switch between 3v 5v 8v you should use a feed voltage of at least 10v, then you add a set of resistors wich each reduces the voltage, and then you individually switch them off and on and can create different voltages to power your hardware with. easy.
so you can enable some resistors and disable others and can increase the voltage step by step. but what if they arent configured?
depending on the way you designed the power circuit and set up the resistors the default voltage of the design can be higher or lower than the default voltage you actually would want to power your hardware with.
if all resistors are set to default, it could mean they are all disabled and you get the highest possible voltage the circuit was designed to deliver.
and this is what might actually have happened on the boards.
when you boot the board the bios configures all the voltages on the board and sets them to what it thinks is default. so no hardware gets damaged, the resistors probably get configured before the circuit is actually powered and produces vcore, so that the first vcore the cpu gets is some good clean 1.5v or 1.4v, whatever its default vcore is. same for the other voltages.
i think this is the "default values" dfi mentioned get lost, or can get lost.
the problem could be several things:
-the vcore circuit gets powered up before the vcore is configured correctly, "just" some bad timing
-the bios doesnt know anymore how to configure the circuit because the data was erased or corrupted
-OR, its not the bios after all! its the chip that is supposed to set the right voltages that fails and all voltages get set to default or to random settings resulting in voltages way out of spec for the cpu and maybe vdimm as well (could be that the voltage control chip that dfi uses and that was burned on one of mikeguavas boards controlls vdimm and vcore)
this is all speculation, i dont know sht about designing circuits :D
i dont eve know how to find a vmod on my own :lol:
and i just got home from nightshift and worked from 9pm to 6am so forgive me if i wrote up some bs :D
im just trying to make sense of all the things i heard about this issue
EDIT: pcdog, the second cpu you put in fried the power circuit, right?
and the same thing happened on mikeguavas board...
now was that second cpu you put in a 130nm cpu?
if yes than this is very interesting.
mikeguava also used a 130nm cpu in at least one of his boards, if it was the board that got the fried power circuit thats interesting.
130nm a64s have a default vcore of 1.5v, 90nm 1.4v
if the voltages get set to default for some reason the vcore could be higher for 130nm cpus than 90nm cpus, hence the circuit burns out with a 130nm cpu but doesnt get damaged with a 90nm cpu and only kills the cpu. if the vcore that gets apllied after the default settings have been lost, that kills the cpus, is actually higher for 130nm cpus than for 90nm cpus then the power circuit doesnt completely fail but still works to some degree.
hmmmm this would actually point to the vid special control wich lets you increase the vcore in percentages. its using the normal vcore as base. the base vcore is higher for 130nm cpus, hence the resulting voltages with special vid applied are way higher on a 130nm cpu compared to a 90nm cpu.
so if it turns out that 130nm cpus kill the boards if the issue happens and the default settings get lost somehow, while 90nm cpus dont and only get fried, then it would mean the special vid setting is the problem.
theoretically it'd be smart to start the board up at ~1.5v reguardless of the CPU used then lower it as the bios settings are loaded during the POST process...
which happens to be what brought about cold boot (post technically) problems and vdroop mods to begin with somewhat..
on a related note, there are CPU's that use less than 1.4v at default, saaya ;)
ok i just purchase the EXPERT board but this Kill CPU stuff is Scare me!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
and looks like even the 12-07 BIOS is not Fix the problem!! there still more bug that kill CPU!! what can i do now!!
i buy this mainboard at the shop that taken 15% restocking fee if i return it unopen:mad: or should i try my luck!!
one of my friend have the EXPERT and he buy from the shop i got mine from and he haven't have a Single issue yet!!
This is RDX200, but with the same power regulator and mosfets like Expert...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...54&postcount=1
I feel the same way. . . . I've had an Expert sitting in a box under my desk for two weeks along with a Opteron 148. I just finished my finals and I was totally excited about setting up the new system this weekend. . . . But now I'm just hoping that my Opteron doesn't get cooked. . . . I guess we'll see. (I'm still gonna risk it of course. :D )Quote:
Originally Posted by z24
The second cpu was a 130 and it's interesting it wasn't trashed..... When I fired it up the first time it did nothing, not even the fans would run. I shut it down and fired it up again and this time the mosfets smoked instantly, but what was strange is that I couldn't get to the PS switch for maybe 3 to 4 seconds and after the smoke cleared but before I got it shut off the fans fired up..... I did try to bring it up again and of course no luck. And supprisingly the 3000 still works. During the bench build and prior to any attempt to get to board running with either cpu I had cleared cmos so all voltages were board/bios defaults....Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Since I panicked and red labeled another board from newegg, and now have an rma with Monarch on this one, I'm not certain what I'm gonna do. Mwave sent me to AMD for a opty rma so the jury is still out there. Of course if I end up eating a dually I'll certainly lose my sense humor 'bout this whole thing. This is my main home box so I need to get it back up, but I'm certainly not putting another dually it for now. Guess I through a 3000 or 3200 at it until something gets resolved..... I'm sure loving the CeleronM lappy I'm using, think it will clock??;) ;) Regards-
i know, and yeah the ideal design would produce around 1.5v if its at default and not configured... but if you want a wide range of voltages you might have to set the ciruit up so the default uncofnigured voltage is higher than that... i dont know... lack of knowledge there.Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
or they ignored this all along because the power cicuit is not supposed to get powered up anyways before its configured correctly... they probably didnt think there would be problems with this.
but then again the older boards had this issue partially as well afaik, but maybe they didnt think it was necessary or didnt have the time to redesign it.
if you have an expensive cpu, or a really good overclocker then i would wait or return the board. if not then go ahead and use the board, its unlikely that something happens, but if it does you can rma the board and the cpu afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by z24
dumo, can you post a pic of it showing half or the entire board? i cant really see where this is on the board.
hmmm it could also be that when you started the system and nothing happened and then you shut it down and powered it up again, and the mosfets burned out, maybe the default values got lost at the first attempt to boot, and then when you booted again it was the circuits default values wich were way too high = circuit burned out.Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
130nm cpus seem to be more resistant to high voltages, so im not that surprised it survived actually.
can you please post pics of the board and the burned ciruit? is it the same mosfet dumo posted a pic of? too bad malves isnt around, his expert input would surely be interesting...
and yes, pentium m cpus clock really nice ;)
my 2 year old 1.4ghz banias 130nm pentium m clocks to over 2.1ghz on air :D
max with stock vcore was 1.9ghz more or less.
the first celeron m chips were relabeled banias chips, if your lucky you have a dothan based celeron m, those are made in 90nm and should clock a lot better, at least 2.2ghz with stock vcore id say.
the problem is that eist wont work because afaik all celeron m chips have their multipliers disabled and only the default one works.
you can still try:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...id=40562&stc=1
but afaik your only option to oc it will be through the fsb, wich means you will most likely be limited by the chipset. if its 915 thats best, should be possible to hit 200fsb on that in theory. the locks are very buggy on this intel chipset though, so if an fsb doesnt work then try to jump for a higher fsb.
on the p4gd1 based on 915p you can fix the lock issue by increasing the pciE speed, but i doubt thats possible on a laptop. and maybe the locks arent enable and you increase pci speeds along with the fsb, so be carefull :D
133fsb should work though and the locks should work fine to at least this point and a lil higher, lets say 145fsb 150fsb.
the only way to increase fsb in windows is using clockgen or cpufsb though. cpufsb supports a load of plls while clockgen has versions for each pll. you have to know your pll though... so you have to open the laptop :D
or you get cpufsb and try one pll after the other and try if one of them works ^^
ok, enough off topic :D
please post pics of the board :)
The Beta-bioses linked earlier in this thread seem to be gone now. Are the links down coz of some prioblems with those Betas or something else is the reason?
I also have Expert board and Lighspeed waiting for clocking, but i think i'll just run it default, until this thing clears up a bit.
running default doesnt seem to prevent the issue from happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggernaut
i think the betas were pulled from the taiwaneese ftp but were still on the us/global server?
hmmm mfm you ran stock speeds right?
but could it be you still had the vcore set higher because you were testing the system at higher speeds before?
happened to me a few times.
If its going to fry running @ default wont save you :nono:Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggernaut
the gloabl dfi site is down? :confused:
is it just me or is the site down?
Yes Saaya....@ stock speeds, default vcore (1.4v - for my FX-55)!Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I'm really curious why thera are only GOOD news at their site...
Nothing about problems resoved or not...
In order to take pics I'll have to remove the mosfet heatsinks, I'm certain that will hose my rma with Monarch... :D :D If I get any indication that the rma isn't gonna work out anyway, I post 'em............Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
post pics with the heatsink on like dumo did :)
Hirotaro, i dont think any mfg posts bad news on their site :/
MFM, can you post a pic of your board?
did the mosfets burn as well?
so here we have a 130nm cpu that died from this issue hmmmm
can you explain in detail what exactly happened before the board died and then what happened?
Sorry Saaya..but not now....!! Too late m8 ! I already sent my mobo for the store where I bought it, and sent my FX-55 SD 0.90nm (not a 130nm Saaya) and 2GB Patriot Mems to RMA !! The mosfets they seem to be ok!Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I waited too much for a simple word from DFI and until today....nothing!!! I don't want never more this mobo or other from DFI!!!
I already wrote about that on PedroRocha thread! Post #91. Link:http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...t=82281&page=4Quote:
can you explain in detail what exactly happened before the board died and then what happened?
PS- Thx Saaya for your time, trying to help us!!!
Oh I will be gentle and nice (within my reason lol) after all, only board that killed for me was Ultra and SLI not expert. BTW, nice job you are doing Saaya :) I like your reasoning and to certain degree, I do agree. All new Asus board seems to initialize at the setting user set minus their enable extra v-core thing which might be what is going on back ground on DFI boards as well. Like the % setting doesn't apply till initialization is over. Question is as you said, what does it start with to begin with... that we have no idea until bit more accurate measuring tool can be used. (Digital DMM with readout at very high frequency or O-scope with very big memory or recording feature). Or get some idea from DFI people (glances around :P)
But that's not an ordinary case and thay should say something official or even exchange boards on bug-free revisions...
MFM, sorry to hear :(
i hope it all goes well and you get the hardware replaced.
too bad dfi didnt contact you, your board could have helped them to find the issue and fix it :/
maybe they didnt want/need your board because they already found the issue and are working on it now?
and thx :)
jinu117, so the asus boards boot with default vcore at first and then apply the increase vcore people set in bios?
hmmm depending on how fast the vcore gets apllied this could also lead to two problems.
1. cpu cant boot at high overclocked speeds because the vcore is too low when the cpu gets initialized with the overclocked speed.
2. if the vcore gets apllied all the sudden it jumps from default to increased wich could also harm the cpu
oh and thx :)
what do you mean wih ordenary case?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirotaro
im not sure about exchanging boards... if there is a new revision of the boards that fixes this issue then im sure dfi will replace older revisions with this new board for free... or at least i hope they do/will do.
maybe bulldog14 can help us answering this question.
i wish i had an oscope or a high speed dmm :D
could check on my dfi nf4 ultra d then, afaik its at least similar to the new dfi boards and some parts seem to be almost identical?
at least the initialization process seems to be similar or identical.
Nope, its down for me too. I just installed my new DFI Expert & Vapo LS last night and finsihed all my software this morning. I tried to reboot into the bios and I do not get the post screen. I have tried a dozen times and its still the same thing. Is this the boot issue someone mentioned earlier? I cannot even try the beta bios cause the site is down. Looks like I'm screwed until the DFI site is up...:clap: :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I was just on the tw sight and it looks like 12-07 has been pulled..... 11-25 is still there though. kraggy, if you looking for 11-25 and can't get there let me know I can email to ya......
wow, i hope your boards isnt dead :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by kraggy
do the fans still spin up?
not sure i got right what you mean, the board boots but you cant save any setting in bios or the board boots but you cant load windows, or the board doesnt boot at all?
did you try to reset cmos? dont remove the battery though! :D
well the bios doesnt seem to help to prevent this issue appearntly, and using it voids your warranty, so i wouldnt recommend you to use it anyways to be honest.
if you still want it you can pm mdzcpa or other people who posted here that said they flashed to the bios, they should still have it.
but if it was taken down i suspect theres a reason for that...
so i wouldnt use it
btw, i chatted with MFM, he shut down his board at night when he went to bed, the next day he wanted to power it on and it didnt work anymore. he tried to power it on and reset cmos several times but it didnt work, its not clear whether his cpu board and memory were damaged/dead inmediatly or if they died one after one when he tried to get the board to boot again with different components.
however the board is definately dead, the cpu is deifnately dead and the memory is definately dead according to him.
he tried the cpu and memory in other boards and he tried another cpu in the board.
that second cpu was not killed though, is that correct MFM?
did the board still power on when you tried the other cpu?
or was it already dead and didnt boot at all?
was that other cpu 90nm or 130nm?
oh and his dead fx55 was 90nm, not 130nm... so theres still no dead 130nm cpu on this board afaik, only 90nm cpus, right?
It's getting to be a familiar story....... Now I feel fortunate to have not lost my ram....:confused:
Cool, hit me bro!Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
@ Saaya, the board still works but I do not see a post screen when I reboot. Its a total black screen for 1min or so and then the Windows XP welcome screen pops up and windows is booted. I can hear the mobo post "beep." But I cannot get into the bios...yes, heh...I am hitting "delete" on reboot.
Well, I think it is safe to say that the problems that were once thought to be "user error" and "noobness" may not be that after all. It is really unfortunate, though, that a board with this much potential is causing this many headaches. I for one will be selling mine when I get it back from RMA. There is no way in hell that that thing is going back into my rig, even if the chances of it killing my components are slim. I suppose I am very, very lucky that I RMA'd it at the first sign if evil.
Shawn
hmmm thats very weird... id rather say its a videocard issue than board issue though from your description... or the monitor takes a long time to finally brighten up so you can see something?Quote:
Originally Posted by kraggy
hmmm doesnt sound like that though
can you check if its the videocard?
have another one around?
shawn, be a lil more patient, maybe they have a new revision of boards that fixes the issue(s?)
and im not surprised to see such an excellent board causing so many headaches, the more variables when configuring hardware the more likely the chance you run into problems... and pushing hardware to the edge has always resulted in weird and unpredictable behaviour.
but this issue is something else, it seems to have nothing to do with overclocking or tweaking but is rather a design flaw.
i dont know if this could be fixed in bios at all, i was kinda surprised to see a bios update supposed to fix the issue. well as i said, i have barely an idea about circuits and all i know is based on speculation and things i heard here and there. so maybe a bios can fix this issue after all... at least on the dfi nf4 ultrad the issue seems to only occur with very early bios versions and is fixed in the later bios files.
kraggy - ignore the pm if you want 12-07, looks like Hirotaro ya.......
I'm a dumb @$$'ed noob. Actually I'm on pain killers cause I messed up my neck shrugging 330lbs...never do that!:nono:
But the medication makes meh dopey:p: ...I had plugged the DVI cable in the wrong port! Shheeeeesh! I got into the bios after moving the cable but I'm dissappointed in my X2-4800...it did not boot at 3gig 250x12, booted at 245x12 but crashed, now its at 240x12= 2,880...that sucks!
From all the photos of the burned DFI mobos I've seen up to now and especially the VCore Mos-Fets blown mobos, I can say this: When we fire up the mobo, we provide to the CPU NOT ONLY the VCore BUT some other voltages as well.......Now.....When a short circuit takes place on our VCore Mos-Fets to GROUND, for some mS we DON'T HAVE VCore on the CPU, BUT we STILL HAVE those other voltages......Maybe because of this, the CPU becomes unstable and finally burns down.....
As I look at the photos of the burned down DFI mobos, I see that the burn is close to the Mos-Fet AND the heatsink of it....Maybe there is a LITTLE space between the hole of the Mos-fet heatsink the the + voltage and when the circuit starts to oscilate (4 phase), a spike goes through Mos-fet to ground and short circuit the output VCore for some mS OR for permanent, leaving the CPU without any VCore and with the other voltages as I said above........Just speculating though......BUT I think that there is a "shealed ground" all over the VCore Mos-Fets that is very "close" to the + voltage, if you can understand what I would like to describe.....:)
I wonder what DFI will do if this board starts killing cpus left and right because of a hardware issue...
and those of us that went to a beta bios for protection, not have no warranty, so i guess the hundards of us got ripped off?
I hope they would be willing to fix the problem if its hardware, or i could see some class action happening if it were to get that bad.
IF it's a hardware problem then DFI will have: a. to admit it and b. to take back ALL the mobos they have built so far so as to give a new revision to public......NOW if the above happens, we have 2 points here too: a. People may start getting crazy or something and asking about their money back AND the money of their burned stuff and b. DFI losses reputation and population and fans.....SO......NONE of the above will happen for sure!...... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dissolved
IF now it's a software (bios) problem, they are going to fix it with one way or another BUT better fix it quick coz they are the ones who loses of this whole thing...... ;)
I must ALSO say that MOST of the "unfixed" problems are hardware related - NOT only DFI mobos but all of them - and they are fixing them with .....another revision.........in a "silent way" you know.....;)
If that is the case it can´t be fixed with bios updates or anything right? And yes I do realize this is just speculation :).
Yes you're right........and.....Of course and it's just a speculation...... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by oqvist
Well i doubt DFI would recall hundards of mobos. so it looks like there gonna go the slient route, and get flooded with rma's.
The mobo was insanely priced when it came out, so they better do something, cuz i wont be happy if my board kills my good opteron.
I wouldnt mind going to another mobo, but i guess in terms of overclocking your always taking risks every second your above stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
But this issue isn´t an overclocking issue is it? It sounds like it can happen as easily in stock settings as for overclocked ones...
Be a little patient? Wait for a new revision? I've already bought this board and it's not is if DFI will just give me a new revision, one doesn't exist at the moment and may never exist. I just don't have the money to play this kind of wait-until-my-sh*t-catches-fire-and-dies game! DFI appears to have a lemon on their hands, at least that is my opinion, so as not to get flamed by members who 1. Have this board and 2. Been lucky enough so far to not have any issues.
Shawn
i want a new bios for Christhmasssssssssssssss-.....
FYI, the 12/7 BIOS is back on DFI's website.
http://us.dfi.com.tw/Support/Downloa...FLAG=B&SITE=NA
anyone know when the official bios is coming out.......i ain't beta testing for DFI that's for sure
I believe there are more elegant ways to supply multiple voltages. Its easily accomplished by means of a programmable voltage regulator. You have a transistor-mirror configuration, where the base can be programmed, with the output coming off the collector. Simple, easy and elegant. Resistors have to have a high tolerence over a wide range of temperatures and the inductive fedback due to switching may cause problems. These resistors are usually metal-film type (carbon film has poor temperature coefficient), so there is always an associated lead inductance.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
I must say I don't know how this is controlled on the board, hence the speculation on my part. :)
I think you are referring to a slow-start ckt, which is very easy to implement and can be quite robust. I don't see why one should see a sudden surge/spike if a slow start ckt is properly implemented.Quote:
and this is what might actually have happened on the boards.
when you boot the board the bios configures all the voltages on the board and sets them to what it thinks is default. so no hardware gets damaged, the resistors probably get configured before the circuit is actually powered and produces vcore, so that the first vcore the cpu gets is some good clean 1.5v or 1.4v, whatever its default vcore is. same for the other voltages.
-BIOS chip problem can be sorted out with a new BIOS. But there could be an unintentional leak or cross-talk (traces being too close, but that is highly unlikely), causing the BIOS to garble up.Quote:
i think this is the "default values" dfi mentioned get lost, or can get lost.
the problem could be several things:
-the vcore circuit gets powered up before the vcore is configured correctly, "just" some bad timing
-the bios doesnt know anymore how to configure the circuit because the data was erased or corrupted
-OR, its not the bios after all! its the chip that is supposed to set the right voltages that fails and all voltages get set to default or to random settings resulting in voltages way out of spec for the cpu and maybe vdimm as well (could be that the voltage control chip that dfi uses and that was burned on one of mikeguavas boards controlls vdimm and vcore)
this is all speculation, i dont know sht about designing circuits :D
i dont eve know how to find a vmod on my own :lol:
and i just got home from nightshift and worked from 9pm to 6am so forgive me if i wrote up some bs :D
im just trying to make sense of all the things i heard about this issue
-Bad timing you speak of could be a crap slow-start ckt (if its present).
-I didn't know that one single chip was used to control both VDRAM and VCORE. Thanks for the info. :)
[/QUOTE]Quote:
EDIT: pcdog, the second cpu you put in fried the power circuit, right?
and the same thing happened on mikeguavas board...
now was that second cpu you put in a 130nm cpu?
if yes than this is very interesting.
mikeguava also used a 130nm cpu in at least one of his boards, if it was the board that got the fried power circuit thats interesting.
130nm a64s have a default vcore of 1.5v, 90nm 1.4v
if the voltages get set to default for some reason the vcore could be higher for 130nm cpus than 90nm cpus, hence the circuit burns out with a 130nm cpu but doesnt get damaged with a 90nm cpu and only kills the cpu. if the vcore that gets apllied after the default settings have been lost, that kills the cpus, is actually higher for 130nm cpus than for 90nm cpus then the power circuit doesnt completely fail but still works to some degree.
hmmmm this would actually point to the vid special control wich lets you increase the vcore in percentages. its using the normal vcore as base. the base vcore is higher for 130nm cpus, hence the resulting voltages with special vid applied are way higher on a 130nm cpu compared to a 90nm cpu.
so if it turns out that 130nm cpus kill the boards if the issue happens and the default settings get lost somehow, while 90nm cpus dont and only get fried, then it would mean the special vid setting is the problem.
If programmable regulators are used, I think it usually waits for a signal regarding the default VCore before it can apply it. Now, if that signal were garbled, anything could happen. I would agree with you regarding the VID special control, but I also believe that in mikeguva's case it would have fried up, regardless of the CPU type. It takes a whole lot to toast a CPU! In fact 130nm CPU's are a bit harder to toast than a 90nm CPU. Something must have gone really really wrong there. :stick:
you mean the heatsinks on the mosfets are grounded, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
and those sticks that hold the heatsink on top of the mosfets are too close to the mosfets so it can cause a short circuit?
Super Nade, i didnt get the part about creating different voltages in an elegant way ^^
can you explain it again?
so this is most likely how boards create vcore and vdimm?
and could this still result in the voltages beeing too high if the circuit is not configured and runs at default settings?
or would you have to miss-configure it to get a high voltage?
about one chip controlling vcore and vdimm, thats speculation!
i know that there are chips that can control multiple voltages, some videocards have one chip that controlls vddr and vgpu. i just speculated about it as it would make sense with MFMs memory dieing.
hmmm but that could also have resulted from a voltage spike comming from the cpu when it died...
and yeah, i think that mikes dead 130nm a64 was killed by a board that had already been damaged when it killed a 90nm a64 before.
or he had the special vid set to very high and maybe that resulted in an even higher vcore getting supplied to the cpu.
thx for your input nade and hipro!
good to see some experts opinion about this :)
hope you stick to this thread :)
Beta BIOS is up on both global and North America.
http://us.dfi.com.tw/Support/Downloa...FLAG=B&SITE=NA
Well, I through in my cheap chip and have been banging on this board for two days now. I've tried every combination of mem and vcore voltages and rebooted probably a few hundred times. I just can't seem to reproduce anything. Man, this issue is something else.
I did have one wierd occurence though. Maybe it is a clue. I put the system into S3 standby. Upon awakening, all my temps and voltages were screwed up in Windows. When I went back to the BIOS on reboot, all was well. Not sure what that was about. But, in Windows after the stand by my voltage was showing .1 too low, and my temps were WAY high. Strange. I'm not sure if the reporting was accurate or not.
I put my FX 57 back in at this point and I'm priming away at 3.45ghz. I wish DFI would get something official posted soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzcpa
i have the 11/25 and my system is flawless. i don't want to get another mobo. so im hopeing that if i dont fool around with my system too much, DFI will get this issue fixed with an offical bios.
Congrats - you just found ONE of the bugs!Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzcpa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissolved
I understand. I'm just letting folks know its out there as there was a report it was removed...which isn't true.
I had zero problems with the official BIOS as well. I was running the shipping BIOS. No issues on two boards.
I went over to a few forums to see more reports (HardOCP, Overclockers.com, AMDMB, techreport, anands, OCforums, etc) and the reports are very scarce. It seems most of the reports are centrlaized here. Even DFI Street has nary a mention of trouble except for links to XS.
I dunno. This is getting frustrating...DFI needs to say something.
LOL...I would have found it sooner, but I never ever use stand by :) I've just been trying everything I can to duplicate the issue and get some clues.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeguava
If the CPU is not getting VCORE until POST but is getting voltage from the memory, wouldnt that be more or less suicide considering the other thread here which is discussing how low vcore vs. high vdimm kills chips?
Quite possible. Good theory coming together so far.
why and how do you use S3 standbyQuote:
Originally Posted by mdzcpa
i heard a few people use that and had all sorts of issues with reported temps and voltages.......
reason i ask about standby is because i tend to just leave my PC running and just turn off the monitor...........i guess if i could still let some of these tasks (bitorrent/encoding) work in the background and go into power save mode when done it would be cool.......it sucks not to be able to use cool and queit if CPU OCd
Off topic........
Why not, it works here using either the 9 or 10 multiplier...Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Stand by is a hibernate mode. Cool and quiet is something different and works just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
I never use hibernate typically. I set my HDs and Screen to power off after no use in 60 minutes. That's about it.
Just out of curiosity if the problem lies in coldbooting and people are worried about it the fix is quite simple, leave the pc on 24/7 till they sort it out.
:banana::banana::banana::banana: i've gotta try it.....i thought you had to keep the multiplier at auto for C&Q to work properly :(Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoc1
sup dino :cool:
I'm ready to tackle a new board. Who should be my next victim. I'm thinking sapphire :)
heheh.....sounds good.....heard they kill more CPUs than Expert'Quote:
Originally Posted by chew*
i think you should go Expert despite some of these small hickups :)
I can´t understand how anyone can recommend the Expert until we have an official notice on why it feeds 3 Volts. I don´t buy it that it´s a 5 promille chance it will ever happen to you though. Seeing it has already happened several it feels more like 10 %
IF my sources are good, a NEW revision of the mobo is going to show up any time soon......Just wait.......:)
hipro5,
Do you know if this new revision will only apply to the Expert or the RDX200 aswell? Considering that some people have lost CPUs in the RDX200, it feels a little bit uncertain to plug a X2 4400+ into it and just crossing your fingers that it won't be eaten.
-k0nsl
It will be for RDX....not sure for expert yet......Quote:
Originally Posted by k0nsl
That's great, hope it happens :)
-k0nsl
Nope. You need to keep the cpu voltage/startup voltage at auto . But you can use the special %age increases on top ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
Set your multiplier and max cnq multiplier to the same value, it works like a dream.
The only reason for not using cnq is if your cpu cant cope with the HTT when its running at 1.1v (plus your special %age) or if you need finer voltage control. All the other people saying you cant use it if you o/c are wrong :D
damn only for the RXD 200 as of yet. Will be expensive to get one mainboard just to jump ship to another... I just wished my 3400+ could have waited a couple of months longer to die :(
well id think vdimm doesnt get apllied until post either... but maybe that has to do with it, i checked pedros thread again yesterday and there are 2 more dead boards reported since i last checked and one of them also lost memory... :/Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
s3 means the cpu is put to stand by and only the memory is still powered up, hdd and other components mostly are shut down or in stand by. the system isnt really running while its in this stand by mode afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
hehehe i couldnt resist :DQuote:
Originally Posted by chew*
hopefully this lightens up the modd a little :)
http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/6...tblowup7ds.jpg
That's funny stuff.........:)
lol :D
Hehe...First off, I'm no expert, mate. I'm just shooting blanks in the dark. I just know a little about electronics, because my damn PhD advisor refuses to spend the money to buy the electronics! All I've learnt is through pain-in-the-azz troubleshooting the stuff I build :D (I study Physics, not electronics) :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Now, to provide a stable, steady current or voltage, one can fix two transistors together in a "Wilson-current-Mirror" configuration. However, an easier way would be to buy a programmable Voltage regulator chip from an electronics place like digikey.com. They sell CPU/DRAM specific voltage regulators. What could be a potential problem, is the mixing of Analog and Digital ckts. Digital ckts are almost always heavily contaminated with noise and are susceptible to RF interference effects. Also, good PCB design has adequet shielding and a pathway to route "dirty" currents to ground. If there is a grounding problem (as hipro5) mentioned, we are screwed.
This can happen in any number of ways, non-single point ground connection between Analog GND and Digital GND. Improper use of GND and Power planes. Lack of/less than satisfactory use of filter caps on critical IC's etc..
The reason I'm emphasising on the Digital and Noise aspects is because it is a D/A process. Somehow, the VID signal should come from the CPU for proper VCore to be applied. If that is garbled, who knows what can happen!
Again, I'm no expert and I know nothing about Motherboards or complicated digital/analog electronics! Just a N00b here! :slap:
PS* When buying DFI, always wait for atleast 3 months after the first release! Atleast that is what poor students like me have to do.
yeah, its the same about games too, wait a few months after they came out and they buy them or you will run into bugs n crashes all the time :/
it seems everwhere companies are trying to save money on quality control :shakes:
anyways, whats a ckts? :D
and i think the cpu doesnt send the signal of how much vcore it needs, the voltage regulating chip checks the pins of the cpu to see how much vcore it needs and then apllies it. if you set a higher vcore it ignores the cpu reading and sets a higher vcore. i think...
So what are the owners of the Revision A boards supposed to do? :( I guess thanks to the enthusiast market,DFi has figured out whats wrong,and once again uses the enthusiast as beta testers. Unfortunately its not just the board that dies in these cases,it was memory and cpus too. :slapass:Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
Oh man...ckts = circuits :slapass: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by saaya
Well, that is what I meant. My point was, VCore is not applied untill something is read off the CPU. So in essence, the data comes from the CPU if AUTO settings are used. I'm not sure if the CPU ROM is being accessed or if this information is electrically hardwired onto the CPU.
You are right about crappy QC one is begining to see. However, I read on EDN (Electronics magazine) that this happens because lengthy QC is more expensive than pushing through something and replacing it later.
I was looking at Pedro's thread and boy that's quite worrying.
One must concede that with all the gymnastics with dry-ice and extreme OC'ing, something is bound to die. However, there were a few deaths with normal air cooling. Now, that is shocking!
holy crap, saaya...that's freaking hilarious... :D :D :D
the real problem with those silent revisions, if they exist, is that you never know what revision your board is... imagine you wanna buy a new board and go to the shop, how do you know its the old or the new revision?Quote:
Originally Posted by man called (E)
you will only find out if your hardware dies one day, "oh, must have been a revision a board..." :/
afaik the vcopre is still set through the pins of the cpu, theres a set of pins and the combination of high and low of those pins results in the board supplying the vcore to whatever that code results in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Nade
thats at least for the base vcore... hmmm but then again cnq means the cpu adjusts vcore and i dont think this happens by pulling the vcore set pins high or low... so i think both actually is possible...
and about quality control, yeah, but money isnt everything and companies overlook that too quickly. its incredibly stupid if you ask me, companies spend incredible amounts of cash to implement a new brand name in the market, a brand name people trust, and then they destroy the good brand with bad quality control and bad quality products... its a waste of money...
thx kris :D
hope it doesnt upset dfi :P
can the people with dead hardware please report it in this thread? thx :)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=82319
Is there any possibility of cool & quiet contributing to this problem? In a recent PM with dinos22 discussing c&q, I realized that a few days ago I had changed bios settings to vcore=auto with a % increase of 112 to maintain my OC and have c&q functioning…. Two days later I lost the 170 which had been extremely stable and reliable for the last few weeks. Not being technically qualified or having enough knowledge on how and when voltage gets applied to the cpu on startup, I wonder if this is a variable to the current problem….. :( Thanx dinos22