DDR400 to DDR600 2-2-2-5 for good prices !!!

*bump*

Duonger is doing the best he can to help me out on this one. Infineon is only interested in selling big quantities, so big that I can never do all the testing myself.

This is all I can say now ;)

best regards,

alexio

Kudos for even trying to tackle this - hope something comes out of this for you, even if its not what you intensionaly set out for.

Keep looking at ALL options and from all angles.

If you want make a real certification, so you refund ... if the module can't make the frequency.
For me it's not possible to sell a module with certification of more than 260 MHz 2-2-2-5 1T @ 3.6V. It's not a 256 Mb of old BH-5 in Single Side.
It's 512 Mb Dual Side module with UTT BH-5 0.175µm.

Maybe you can sell few special module @ 270 Mhz with 3.7V, but required a ACTIVE COOLING and mobo as DFI nF4 ... and you will have 1 module of 200 who can make it.

Also, don't confuse UTT CH-5 0.13µm chip (Cheap), and UTT BH-5 0.175 µm chip (Expensive).
You want sell 1Gb DDR 400 2-2-2-5 @ 3.0V for 100$ ... but with 100$ ou can't buy 32 chips.

Don't speak to fast, please analyse all before :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j_p_h2002

Did you believe that TCCD's run at 340Mhz with 2.5-x-x-x? I think that you didn't belive it. And thanks.

---

We speak about 512 Mb module and STABLE (CERTIFIED), fatory 1000 modules of better TCCD CHIP (437 or 440), on a BP 808 PCB.
Take the 100 better modules, and maybe you can certified 310 MHz 2.5-4-3-5, not more. Also, we speak about UTT BH-5, not TCCD ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by computersmsa

If you want make a real certification, so you refund ... if the module can't make the frequency.
For me it's not possible to sell a module with certification of more than 260 MHz 2-2-2-5 1T @ 3.6V. It's not a 256 Mb of old BH-5 in Single Side.
It's 512 Mb Dual Side module with UTT BH-5 0.175µm.

Maybe you can sell few special module @ 270 Mhz with 3.7V, but required a ACTIVE COOLING and mobo as DFI nF4 ... and you will have 1 module of 200 who can make it.

Also, don't confuse UTT CH-5 0.13µm chip (Cheap), and UTT BH-5 0.175 µm chip (Expensive).
You want sell 1Gb DDR 400 2-2-2-5 @ 3.0V for 100$ ... but with 100$ ou can't buy 32 chips.

Don't speak to fast, please analyse all before :)

---

I know, on the DDR400 it's impossible to make a profit. I expect that 90% of the chips can run DDR480 and that would be a nice speed to start testing at (with some yields for overclocking). Anything that fails will be sold as DDR400 2-2-2-5, but ofcourse tested again to pick the really bad or broken chips out.

I know about prices now. I can't say much about testing atm. I can say that if I continue with this pricing will possibly be higher than stated before, that was ofcourse an indication. Final pricing will depent on the yields of the chips.

Big quantities will probably be sold by mushkin but I cannot say anything about that now. Duonger is looking into the possibility of testing the chips the way I proposed.

best regards,

alexio

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alexio

I expect that 90% of the chips can run DDR480 and that would be a nice speed to start testing at (with some yields for overclocking).

---

just a second, you mean 90% of ic's completely untested up to that point?

You expect 90 % of UTT BH-5 can 290 MHz 2-2-2-5 stable ?
I'm sorry, finish dream => 0.0000000 %

I speak about 512 Mb modules DS ! Maybe 256 Mb SS you can have 5% at 280 MHz 2-2-2-5.

Edit : Sorry, you tell 240 MHz, -> Yes that's right :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by computersmsa

You expect 90 % of UTT BH-5 can 290 MHz 2-2-2-5 stable ?
I'm sorry, finish dream => 0.0000000 %

---

exactly my point.

afaik, at least 20% of the ic's will end up being just garbage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by high5

just a second, you mean 90% of ic's completely untested up to that point?

---

No, I can't say more though about testing at this point. Testing each chip at their rated speed, timings and voltage first I guess. Any sales from Infineon and other components for the PCB will be via Mushkin. No deals yet between Mushkin and me. No deals at all. I just heard something about pricing.

I've said all I can say now. Not because I don't wan't to share information with you. It's just that I don't have much solid information now. I can't give information about pricing of the chips.

best regards,

alexio

Not all people get the point that on a 512MB DS module are 16 chip's, so if 1 chip can't do 2-2-2-5 the whole module can't work at that timings, the other chips can maybe do 280MHz @ 2-2-2-5 or better, but because 1 chip can't work @ 2-2-2-5 timings the module is a bad overclocker.

And how said it is 90% of the UTT that can do 290MHz 2-2-2-5, ofcourse there are a lot of chips that are ****** up, but that doesn't mean a lot of chip's are good.

If you can sell 1Gb Kit certified DDR560 2-2-2-5 @ 3.7V @ 300$ (Not DDR600), in one mouth you have sell 1000 Kits and you can buy one Ferrari 575 Maranello :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by computersmsa

You expect 90 % of UTT BH-5 can 290 MHz 2-2-2-5 stable ?
I'm sorry, finish dream => 0.0000000 %

I speak about 512 Mb modules DS ! Maybe 256 Mb SS you can have 5% at 280 MHz 2-2-2-5.

---

DDR480 is 240mhz my friend, guess you should know :stick:

I can't tell you more about testing now. I expect a reasonable percentage to be able to run DDR560.

regards,

alexio

Yes, I have edited my post before :D
Sorry :D You have right :)

"I expect a reasonable percentage to be able to run DDR560"

If I have understand, you want test chip per chip and put 16 powerfull chip per modules, Right ? You will have 16x luck in more that' right ... but you have a hardware for test chip per chip ?

For me, if you factory BH-5 UTT on BP808 (512Mb DS), you have 0.1% chance to can sell 280 MHz 2-2-2-5 certified module.
Test chip per chip, maybe 2% not more ... :(

But test chip per chip is a very good idea (VERY EXPENSIVE) !

Also, dont forget that certifier 280 MHz 2-2-2-5 @ 3.7V => You must have a module right for 282-283 MHz 2-2-2-5 @ 3.7V (not 3.78V) and not a incredible FAN, light FAN.

So, you have good idea but it's very hard (I don't speak about DDR600, just DDR560).

errrm, without ALL the chips on the pcb you will have no idea if the chips can run at the same speed with all the chips on the pcb. if you are testing 8/16 chips at a time, how would you know which was the bad chip??

basically, what this is turning into is, mushkin will buy some memory chips from a manufacturer cheap cos they are untested, then, they will test them and release speed binned chips? OMG, thats amazing, how did no one do this before?

Also, isn't just a touch unlikely, that on all the bh-5 512 sticks that the people on this forum have had over the last 3 years(we must be talking thousands of sticks), each and every single stick had one bad chip that caused it to not hit 300Mhz. quite frankly, bollocks. they can't do that speed, simply as that, there is no way in hell you can release a product. 2 times in 3 years we've seen that speed, unstable, with HUGE voltage and on 256 single sticks. those were the only two sticks, in 3 years, with bh-5 that had only good chips on the pcb? ok, lets just for a second assume each and every one of those sticks over 3 years that have been used, does have 1 faulty chip at least, then simply put you will not find enough chips to make sticks.


prediction, mushkin will see that some people are willing to throw even more voltage at to get slightly higher than their redline speeds. so they will now get some bh-5, rate it to 3.8v, make it stupidly expensive to cover all the rma's, and sell some newer redline thats garenteed to 270Mhz.

i've got 4 sticks of twinny bh-5 that all do 260Mhz, 250 stable, 260 a little unstable, but not used more than 3.2v yet. my previous sticks of ch-5 utt did about the same little more voltage. my old bh-5 would all do 260Mhz, my 256 sticks would do a little more.

i for one wouldn't mind seeing a little more reality on these forums. maybe i'm jsut getting old.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drunkenmaster

i for one wouldn't mind seeing a little more reality on these forums. maybe i'm jsut getting old.

---

The only problem with your logic:

Mushkin sells tons and tons of black level II TCCD rated 2-2-2-5. As i'm sure they will sell tons of redline that is pc4000.

Just because thats all anyone sells doesn't mean the chips cannot do it. they only sell taht speed, because that is whats ecinomically FEASABLE to make a good profit.

He is talking about testing each IC individually I believe, and the ones that do well, are to be combined onto one PCB and tested. For a ram manufacturer like mushkin, doing that for every stick would be nuts if they wanted 1000-2000 sticks like that.

Now, maybe 10-20 sticks may be more managable by a single person. :stick:

Computersmsa does this already *somewhat*, as i saw in his madshrimps thread. not each IC, but the sticks.

the reason we dont see ddr600 2-2-2-5 on OCZ and mushkin stuff, is because, if 1 module does 265mhz, and one does 305mhz, the 265mhz will still pass as the pc4000, making that 305chip unused.

its all very very dependent on where you place the performance bar, and which stages of testing its at a certain point. :fact:

Couldn't you have some automated machine that has a robot arm, which picks up a chip from a belt, put in into one of a set of testing slots, while testing runs it picks up the one that just finished testings (FILO buffer), and moves it to a set of bins/belts based on clockspeed. Then each bin is used to make the RAM sticks. You should be able to do 1000+ chips per day like this. I think that's enough production capacity.

Quantities are huge, just think about atleast 100k chips. Now guess what happens if even 1% is 300+mhz capable ;)

DDR600 might be closer than you think, atleast DDR560 is.

Lets say that 1% is capable of doing 300+mhz. Now a 256mb stick has 8 chips.

0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01 = ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alexio

Quantities are huge, just think about atleast 100k chips. Now guess what happens if even 1% is 300+mhz capable ;)

DDR600 might be closer than you think, atleast DDR560 is.

Lets say that 1% is capable of doing 300+mhz. Now a 256mb stick has 8 chips.

0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01 = ;)

---

To reward your boldness, I hope that 5% of the chips are capable of 300Mhz.

But what makes you believe that the order of magnitude of 300Mhz capable chips is that and not one hundredth or one thousandth. I hope your sure of your beliefs, since your success of failure will depend on numbers like this one.

can the chips themselves be tested by themselves??? or do you have to mount them to the PCB and hope all of them work at a good speed??

if so I will pay for some 300-320 stable chips :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iboomalot

can the chips themselves be tested by themselves??? or do you have to mount them to the PCB and hope all of them work at a good speed??

if so I will pay for some 300-320 stable chips :D

---

if you can test the individually, taht will make this a much easier task. heck, bet you could sell some nice 256mb ddr600 sticks then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alexio

Quantities are huge, just think about atleast 100k chips. Now guess what happens if even 1% is 300+mhz capable ;)

DDR600 might be closer than you think, atleast DDR560 is.

Lets say that 1% is capable of doing 300+mhz. Now a 256mb stick has 8 chips.

0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01*0.01 = ;)

---

firstly, you're completely guessing that 1% can do 600Mhz stable. also as i said, there have been, i said thousands, but look how many members we have, and how many sticks each of us have had. though the chances are low, not one single stick of 512 mb has ever hit 600Mhz. anyway, assuming there are just a few chips in the 100k that do 600Mhz, do you know how long it will take you to find each and every one of those chips? finding enough for one stick of 512mb could take you a month. it will never happen. the bh-5 die, design, spec and transistors are simply not capable of those speeds. remember also, not only has ONLY 256 mb sticks done ddr600, there is a LOT less stress on the pcb alone, also the power lines, the traces on the pcb and mobo, than there is for a 512 stick, let alone two. and we have never seen a 256mb stick do it at 3.8v. we've seen 280 fairly often(still not that often) and a couple higher speeds. but to claim that there is even a remote chance of this is just, well, so far out there, that its funny.

ddr560 sticks should be easy. its really this simple, there are 10's of thousands of sticks out there with bh-5 on, we know EXACTLY what bh-5 can do. we know some bh-5 can do 280mhz. maybe 290, but thats rare. those are the sticks with only good chips on. by pure chance there are a couple that will have the best chips on and we've seen them already.

as i also said before how are you going to stably test each chip on its own. one chip running on a pcb is not the same as running 8 chips or 16 chips at full load. everything changes. it might well be possible that 1 chip on its own can do 320Mhz, but with 8 chips in they will never break 260Mhz. testing individually, if even possible, is very unlikely to prove possible (maybe not at all or simply, 100k chips, even by mushkin let alone by one guy, will take so long that there probably won't actually be ddr boards being used by enthusiasts by the time you make the first stick.

maybe i'm being harsh, but honestly, i'm trying to stop you wasting too much time. try and think realistically, how long it would take to test a single chip, ie memtest stable, then test each chip that seems to run better on a pcb with more of the binned chips. then every time a stick of 8 chips won't do ddr600 you test for ddr560, then ddr450, then ddr400.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drunkenmaster

firstly, you're completely guessing that 1% can do 600Mhz stable. also as i said, there have been, i said thousands, but look how many members we have, and how many sticks each of us have had. though the chances are low, not one single stick of 512 mb has ever hit 600Mhz.

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I think you completely missed my post entirely.

Mushkin and OCZ arent "handpicking" these sticks everyone is buying. if a certain IC does 265mhz, and one does 350mhz, they both pass as pc4000, the highest speed grade, and can end up on the same stick. :fact:

Using a DIFFERENT, EXPENSIVE, TIME CONSUMING method, such as hand testing each IC, DDR600 should be easily obtained- but it sint going to be cheap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drunkenmaster

firstly, you're completely guessing that 1% can do 600Mhz stable. also as i said, there have been, i said thousands, but look how many members we have, and how many sticks each of us have had. though the chances are low, not one single stick of 512 mb has ever hit 600Mhz. anyway, assuming there are just a few chips in the 100k that do 600Mhz, do you know how long it will take you to find each and every one of those chips? finding enough for one stick of 512mb could take you a month. it will never happen. the bh-5 die, design, spec and transistors are simply not capable of those speeds. remember also, not only has ONLY 256 mb sticks done ddr600, there is a LOT less stress on the pcb alone, also the power lines, the traces on the pcb and mobo, than there is for a 512 stick, let alone two. and we have never seen a 256mb stick do it at 3.8v. we've seen 280 fairly often(still not that often) and a couple higher speeds. but to claim that there is even a remote chance of this is just, well, so far out there, that its funny.

ddr560 sticks should be easy. its really this simple, there are 10's of thousands of sticks out there with bh-5 on, we know EXACTLY what bh-5 can do. we know some bh-5 can do 280mhz. maybe 290, but thats rare. those are the sticks with only good chips on. by pure chance there are a couple that will have the best chips on and we've seen them already.

as i also said before how are you going to stably test each chip on its own. one chip running on a pcb is not the same as running 8 chips or 16 chips at full load. everything changes. it might well be possible that 1 chip on its own can do 320Mhz, but with 8 chips in they will never break 260Mhz. testing individually, if even possible, is very unlikely to prove possible (maybe not at all or simply, 100k chips, even by mushkin let alone by one guy, will take so long that there probably won't actually be ddr boards being used by enthusiasts by the time you make the first stick.

maybe i'm being harsh, but honestly, i'm trying to stop you wasting too much time. try and think realistically, how long it would take to test a single chip, ie memtest stable, then test each chip that seems to run better on a pcb with more of the binned chips. then every time a stick of 8 chips won't do ddr600 you test for ddr560, then ddr450, then ddr400.

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Your saying that since bh5 that is tested to do 400mhz and passes is all slapped on a stick and it is extremely rare that even a 256mb stick can do 300mhz that it won't happen? There ARE chips that will do 300mhz, I bet they are 'fairly' common, as in you probably have at least one on every 2 512mb sticks, but they cannot be taken advantage of because you also have the chips that are holding you back.

Think about it, out of the 1000's of bh5 sticks we have had on this forum, and I'm only using 256mb for simplicity. I bet less than 10% have seen higher than 3.5v, so I'm sure the number of 300mhz sticks would be slightly higher, not to mention not everyone here knows as much as some other people who could take the same stick and get 20mhz higher by just tweaking the alpha timings and such. Now there are 8 chips per stick, and all of those chips were random, no high speed binning done. So I think if you take say 8,000 chips, that are tested for pc3200, or some 'even' pc3500, and just randomly put any of those chips together in sets of 8 (for a 256mb stick), and you actually have a couple that will do 300mhz, I think those are pretty good odds when you think about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kryptobs2000

Your saying that since bh5 that is tested to do 400mhz and passes is all slapped on a stick and it is extremely rare that even a 256mb stick can do 300mhz that it won't happen? There ARE chips that will do 300mhz, I bet they are 'fairly' common, as in you probably have at least one on every 2 512mb sticks, but they cannot be taken advantage of because you also have the chips that are holding you back.

Think about it, out of the 1000's of bh5 sticks we have had on this forum, and I'm only using 256mb for simplicity. I bet less than 10% have seen higher than 3.5v, so I'm sure the number of 300mhz sticks would be slightly higher, not to mention not everyone here knows as much as some other people who could take the same stick and get 20mhz higher by just tweaking the alpha timings and such. Now there are 8 chips per stick, and all of those chips were random, no high speed binning done. So I think if you take say 8,000 chips, that are tested for pc3200, or some 'even' pc3500, and just randomly put any of those chips together in sets of 8 (for a 256mb stick), and you actually have a couple that will do 300mhz, I think those are pretty good odds when you think about it.

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Excellent point, and seconded.

You guys are dreaming big time :( As a matter of fact, I don't understand why would this thread be started in a first place without any research done before. Alexio doesn't even know If he's able to get Winbond/Infineon to talk to him and sell him the ICs, less testing them. Then, claims of DDR600 6-2-2-2.0-1T rock stable... We have not seen DDR560 "rock stable" (neither on 256MB no 512Mb sticks). DDR560 can be achieved, lightly benchable... Rock stable DDR560 will be with some magic sticks, 1 in 1000 maybe. Speed binning ICs seperately @ DDR600 3.8v, one by one is just unreal.
I would rather have alexio come here with a "very cherry picked" sample of DDR600 "rock stable" sticks that speculating about it and letting others dream his dream that will most likely not come true :(

sorry, but when we've seen, 2 sticks of 256mb in three years hit 300mhz completely unstable you just step in and say there could be 2 chips on each single stick that do that. m8, dream land, complete and utter dreamland. i could very well say, all tccd is far better than it is 7 out of 8 chips will hit ddr800, theres just one bad chip on every pcb, what a shame that is hey. it would be just as ludicrous.

companies don't start making a new product by just picking a speed and testing memory for it and chucking everything that doesn't make it into lower end products. its called research, testing, product design. before releaseing xp4000 redline mushkin most likely asked for a batch of bh-5 chips, possibly being able to obtain certain batch numbers or maybe getting a whole waifer and just automatically deciding only the central 1/3 will be tested, the rest will just be thrown into cheap ddr400. who knows. anyway they'll get the chips and test them for lots of different speeds and find a speed/voltage/volume of chips that can do a speed that is marketable at a decent price. if the chips could do faster even in very small quantities they have no reason not to release it. why don't they, cos as is completely obvious to every no wishful thinker around its very clear that with a decent voltage most wil do 240 , a decent amount will do 250, some 260 and so on, if there was 5% that passed at ddr540 they would market some very expensive sticks. they can't, they don't there isn't--never gonna happen.

Im up for some ddr600 :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drunkenmaster

sorry, but when we've seen, 2 sticks of 256mb in three years hit 300mhz completely unstable you just step in and say there could be 2 chips on each single stick that do that. m8, dream land, complete and utter dreamland. i could very well say, all tccd is far better than it is 7 out of 8 chips will hit ddr800, theres just one bad chip on every pcb, what a shame that is hey. it would be just as ludicrous.

companies don't start making a new product by just picking a speed and testing memory for it and chucking everything that doesn't make it into lower end products. its called research, testing, product design. before releaseing xp4000 redline mushkin most likely asked for a batch of bh-5 chips, possibly being able to obtain certain batch numbers or maybe getting a whole waifer and just automatically deciding only the central 1/3 will be tested, the rest will just be thrown into cheap ddr400. who knows. anyway they'll get the chips and test them for lots of different speeds and find a speed/voltage/volume of chips that can do a speed that is marketable at a decent price. if the chips could do faster even in very small quantities they have no reason not to release it. why don't they, cos as is completely obvious to every no wishful thinker around its very clear that with a decent voltage most wil do 240 , a decent amount will do 250, some 260 and so on, if there was 5% that passed at ddr540 they would market some very expensive sticks. they can't, they don't there isn't--never gonna happen.

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lots of negatives in there - but the

Quote:

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they can't, they don't there isn't--never gonna happen

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part is your sticking point for me - no such thing in this indusrty. Over DDR600 for DDR was a never at one point ;)

Highly unlikely that even 1% would manage it - but only the Tech's at Infinion would know if they can tweak the proccess at all, maybe they will if demand is enough. :shocked:

I think this is most definatly possible, I don't know if it's possible by alexio, and maybe I am being optimistic, but you can get probably at least 80% of all 512mb bh5 sticks to 250mhz with 3.5v or less if you know what ur doing probably. Now out of 16 random chips thats pretty good. Just imagine if you take the best chip on any one stick, I'm sure it's capable of close to 280mhz at least. This is just a pure guess, I have nothing to actually back this up of course, but I think if you look at it you'd agree. You probably will have 2 or 3 even capable of that or more. I think ddr560 is very possible, and I'm sure that you could get at least a few 300mhz benchable chips out of 1000. I don't know if they are capable at all of ddr600 being stable because we have not seen that done, but I think it's possible, and I have no doubt that ddr560 can at least be done.

First I don't think it's at all impossible to get to DDR600 if EACH chip is individually tested and speed binned. Fact is I agree, very expensive, but also it can be done. If even 10% of the individual chips can hit 600, it's highly UNLIKLY to get even 8 on a stick let alone 16. And if in fact only 3% of the chips can do 600 the odds aginst radomly getting 16 X 2 chips to make a set of DDR600 without individual testing are millions to one.

Man if you can develop and market DDR570-580, or higher, with 512 X 2 sets I'll buy from you, even at higher prices than those already mentioned. And of course DDR600 would be of great interest! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jericho

lots of negatives in there - but the part is your sticking point for me - no such thing in this indusrty. Over DDR600 for DDR was a never at one point ;)

Highly unlikely that even 1% would manage it - but only the Tech's at Infinion would know if they can tweak the proccess at all, maybe they will if demand is enough. :shocked:

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sorry m8 but thats completely wrong, with pc2100 people were clocking to 200mhz, as soon as bh-5 was available people were hitting 250mhz , years ago people were at almost exactly the same speeds with low latency's as we are now. there was pc4000 hynix type chips out as the next thing after bh-5 that did high fsb's with higher latency's. everyone knew you could get higher latency's and higher fsb's, tccd is not even close to being the first chips to hit 300Mhz. people seem to think tccd and new bh-5 is great. memory has barely changed in 3 years. a-data, corsair hynix was doing 300mhz + absolutely ages ago, pre ath 64's release.

before canterwood and 200Mhz stock intel cpu's came out i was using 4:5 and higher dividers to get memory way beyond 200Mhz on the sis dual channel chipset, can't think what chipset it was called now. ages ago.

really, the only thing i find unrealistic about this is not the ability of the chips, but rather the testing of hundreds of thousands of individual chips with only one person. how would you do this? you can't boot into windows and test a single chip with a capacity of about 32/64mb on a modern game without it taking an EXTREMELY long time.

SOOO, let me help you out here, bud. all you need to do is take out a loan, buy a nuke on the black market, bomb the living daylights out of the United Arab Emirates, estabilsh yourself as the new government, and then with the wads of cash you get you can build your own little company to individually test the chips while you sit on the beach and sip lemonade. simple as that.

sorry. i couldn't resist :brick: :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5-Clicks

really, the only thing i find unrealistic about this is not the ability of the chips, but rather the testing of hundreds of thousands of individual chips with only one person. how would you do this? you can't boot into windows and test a single chip with a capacity of about 32/64mb on a modern game without it taking an EXTREMELY long time.

SOOO, let me help you out here, bud. all you need to do is take out a loan, buy a nuke on the black market, bomb the living daylights out of the United Arab Emirates, estabilsh yourself as the new government, and then with the wads of cash you get you can build your own little company to individually test the chips while you sit on the beach and sip lemonade. simple as that.

sorry. i couldn't resist :brick: :D

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What the hell are you talking about? You can machine-bin chips. They do it in all the memory companies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iddqd

What the hell are you talking about? You can machine-bin chips. They do it in all the memory companies.

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i know that. but Alexio is not a memory company nor does he own one (yet... ;)).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drunkenmaster

sorry m8 but thats completely wrong, with pc2100 people were clocking to 200mhz, as soon as bh-5 was available people were hitting 250mhz , years ago people were at almost exactly the same speeds with low latency's as we are now. there was pc4000 hynix type chips out as the next thing after bh-5 that did high fsb's with higher latency's. everyone knew you could get higher latency's and higher fsb's, tccd is not even close to being the first chips to hit 300Mhz. people seem to think tccd and new bh-5 is great. memory has barely changed in 3 years. a-data, corsair hynix was doing 300mhz + absolutely ages ago, pre ath 64's release.

before canterwood and 200Mhz stock intel cpu's came out i was using 4:5 and higher dividers to get memory way beyond 200Mhz on the sis dual channel chipset, can't think what chipset it was called now. ages ago.

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for a start, Hynix D43 did'nt hit 300mhz as consistently with as low timings as TCCD, also we talking OVER DDR600.
Secondly, the Micron(Crucial) 2100 that hit 200mhz was also lacking in timings, and was never stressed in DC.
Its fairly conistantly possible to hit over 270mhz with cas1.5,2,2,5(7) @ 1T with old school BH5/6 256 sticks if we throw the right volts at them with current mem controllers. The key here is BH5 could never have been as good circa '99 as the chipsets/cpu's could'nt take it - even if the memory could.
So I'm not wrong, your just picking :)

rofl i feel pitty for the people who are thinking they will get some ddr600 at 2-2-2-5 from bh-5, i have only seen that possible when it was cooled with ln2.

alexio i blame you for posting this thread before you had done any research into if inferion can supply you the chips and if those speeds are consistently achievable, just simply coming up with the idea and then posting it :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jericho

for a start, Hynix D43 did'nt hit 300mhz as consistently with as low timings as TCCD, also we talking OVER DDR600.

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actually, hynix was hitting ddr600 on regular basis on ram such as corsair and adata, as drunkenmaster stated. and it was hynix d5 and hynix b, d43 doesn't clock as high as they do.

consistently? did tccd hit ddr600 right after it was introduced? no, not even close. only after 'discovery' of brainpower pcb was tccd able to reach such high clocks. even now, with bp pcb, tccd doesn't hit ddr600 that consistent. it hits it on selected products, just as hynix did/does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by high5

actually, hynix was hitting ddr600 on regular basis on ram such as corsair and adata, as drunkenmaster stated. and it was hynix d5 and hynix b, d43 doesn't clock as high as they do.

consistently? did tccd hit ddr600 right after it was introduced? no, not even close. only after 'discovery' of brainpower pcb was tccd able to reach such high clocks. even now, with bp pcb, tccd doesn't hit ddr600 that consistent. it hits it on selected products, just as hynix did/does.

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Partial quotation and picking all about TCCD, when my original point was about the term 'never'.

could you rephrase that, please? not sure if i got it right... :eh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shuRe

rofl i feel pitty for the people who are thinking they will get some ddr600 at 2-2-2-5 from bh-5, i have only seen that possible when it was cooled with ln2.

alexio i blame you for posting this thread before you had done any research into if inferion can supply you the chips and if those speeds are consistently achievable, just simply coming up with the idea and then posting it :rolleyes:

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Can you explain to me what's wrong with ideas? Isn't a forum partly about sharing ideas?

1.) I guaranteed nothing, this was just to check for interest in the first place. No guarantee about speed, volts, warrenty, quantities or anything else. As I said before I don't know the exact yields of the chips. All I know and said was that I expect that the yields of the chips will be high enough for atleast a decent amount of DDR560. I also know and said that DDR600 is gonna be hard.

2.) I want to do this for the xs community, I'll enjoy testing but don't need/want to make much profit out of this. I just want some cool memory for myself and a little money for my work, that's all.

3.) From now on I'd like people to read all the stuff I posted in this thread before making any remarks and suggestions. I'm really getting sick of the "you're dreaming" stuff and people asking questions that have been asked before.

If your not interested enough in this subject to read the hole thread just go away and don't post in here please.

Threre's no news untill tomorrow, I think Duonger of Mushkin Tech is enjoying his weekend ;)

best regards,

alexio

Good luck, Alexio.
I'd love to see you prove the naysayers wrong with your new process.
I'm not sure if it will work out for you, but this is what innovation is and this is how great ideas start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 5-Clicks

i know that. but Alexio is not a memory company nor does he own one (yet... ;)).

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You can buy one for fairly cheap... I mean the socket and the tester itself. However, you need a robotic arm or something to keep doing it for you, or otherwise a chinese worker to insert chips, record max. speed on a piece of paper and throw them in the correct bin. Or, he could do it himself, either which.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shuRe

rofl i feel pitty for the people who are thinking they will get some ddr600 at 2-2-2-5 from bh-5, i have only seen that possible when it was cooled with ln2.

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You're lying. Cooling capacitors to extreme temps doesn't increase their discharge performance. Or charge. And the few transistors that you can find in DRAM chips are HARDLY the bottleneck.

DDR 600 @ 2-2-2-5?? lol i think that is a bit almost impossible...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sesto Sento

DDR 600 @ 2-2-2-5?? lol i think that is a bit almost impossible...

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I think you should check your english :P

a bit .. .almost ... impossible lol, it can be Impossible or Not, or a Bit but not almost duh :P.

And I dont think its "impossible" coz Infineon Rulz and I hope that this proyect develops as expected, it is totally possible.

Wll maybe he might manage DDR600 @ 2,3,2,7 or something - surely thats still of interest ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shuRe

rofl i feel pitty for the people who are thinking they will get some ddr600 at 2-2-2-5 from bh-5, i have only seen that possible when it was cooled with ln2.

alexio i blame you for posting this thread before you had done any research into if inferion can supply you the chips and if those speeds are consistently achievable, just simply coming up with the idea and then posting it :rolleyes:

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1.) your blaming him for not doing research, when you state ln2 cooled memory does ddr600?

LOL thats funny. :fact:

2.) alexio posting this thread has gotten him help from duonger. How has that not helped? :rolleyes: it has also provided him some insight as to how much interest this could gain. :stick:

I agree with alexio-- people posting just to say "impossible. your dumb" should be left out, as it isnt helping anything.

I beleive that this is extremely impractical for a different reason. I think you'll find that most chips will do 200MHz, but only about 1 in 200 will do 300 ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iddqd

I beleive that this is extremely impractical for a different reason. I think you'll find that most chips will do 200MHz, but only about 1 in 200 will do 300 ;)

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out of 100,000 chips, thats 500. ;) which is 31 512mb sticks. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alexio

Quantities are huge, just think about atleast 100k chips.

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not that many. I'm sure there will be more than 15 people who wants a 2x512 kit that's guaranteed ddr600

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dippyskoodlez

out of 100,000 chips, thats 500. ;) which is 31 512mb sticks. :)

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as someone already said, putting 8 or 16 ic's that are 300mhz capable together doesn't necessarily mean the module will do 300mhz. things are not that simple.

That's true. You do have to bin 20-30Mhz above your goal. Or, so I'm told.

iddqd -> Stop with DDR600 kit ... now the max that Alexio speak is DDR560 module.
You can buy 1000 K chips, not one of them can 300 MHz 2-2-2-5 stable, ready for a certified module.
Make a module certified at 280 MHz 2-2-2-5 (DDR560), is already VERY hard to make.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by computersmsa

iddqd -> Stop with DDR600 kit ... now the max that Alexio speak is DDR560 module.
You can buy 1000 K chips, not one of them can 300 MHz 2-2-2-5 stable, ready for a certified module.
Make a module certified at 280 MHz 2-2-2-5 (DDR560), is already VERY hard to make.

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Depends on the voltage ;). A lof of old OCZ sticks would do it. Even BH-6, although that needs a bit more vdimm. I think 280 is definetly possible.

Yes, is possible but cost how mush ?
Test 1600 chips ... test finish module ... 100h and 1000$ per 512Mb ?

It's good idea ... but mygod, not easy :D

@ alexio
what are the prices in euro, because i live in belguim and you in the NL so thats not to far for me
interested at the 280 kit, if it works out nice

1 euro is $1.22- so you can divide the dollar price by 1.22. This always changes so the the price in euro can be higher or lower than this.

alright, that would be very nice imo

Waiting news, I'm very interested in buyng ddr600 and ddr560 but also ddr540 if rock solid is very pretty to me, consider my post as a serius pre-order ;) Good luck :woot:

I believe that DDR600 is totally feasible. I think that you can do it Alexio. It is just a matter of having a lot of time and dedication to individually bin each chip.

if you can get a set to run at 300mhz 2-2-2 tghem send me a pm, as thats awesome stuff.

even a set that can do 280 2-2-2 is something to post about so pm if they are available as well

not gonna happen.im sure the ocz guys are laughing at this thread and its dreamers. :p

this is the most pointless thread ever created :(

After I re-read that thread I decided to move it over to Computer related open discussion. It's better suited there.

Are you still making these? I'm interested in the DDR560 or DDR600 :). How much would shipping be to the UK?

Shipping will be world-wide, that's one thing that's for sure.

Mushkin Engineers are still discussing if they will use my indea of testing the IC's individually. If so, I will get a decent amount of IC's and testing PCB's for my own testing via them.

Yep I know this is a pointless thread :stick:


Best regards,

Alexio

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alexio

Shipping will be world-wide, that's one thing that's for sure.

Mushkin Engineers are still discussing if they will use my indea of testing the IC's individually. If so, I will get a decent amount of IC's and testing PCB's for my own testing via them.

Yep I know this is a pointless thread :stick:


Best regards,

Alexio

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So are you selling these for certain, as im very interesed :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K.I.T.T.

So are you selling these for certain, as im very interesed :)

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It's up to the guys at Mushkin. I can never buy quantities small enough for myself. Mushkin needs to be involved in this. If they don't wanna do it, I can't do it. It's that simple.

I hope that Mushkin will do something to help you in your project, any prevision for further news by them?

Even if each chips can do 300MHz 2-2-2, it doesnt means the module will do 300MHz 2-2-2....

Chips are tested above DDR600 on a module. About 10mhz DDR to insure it will run at it's rated speed in other conditions. This testing will be done on ALL modules from DDR400 to DDR600. The yields they are being tested on may vary per speedrating. Just think about atleast 10mhz DDR in dual-channel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alexio

Chips are tested above DDR600 on a module. About 10mhz DDR to insure it will run at it's rated speed in other conditions. This testing will be done on ALL modules from DDR400 to DDR600. The yields they are being tested on may vary per speedrating. Just think about atleast 10mhz DDR in dual-channel.

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I hope Mushkin agrees!! Good luck!! :) :toast:

I think this would be a good opportunity for Mushkin. It would be like a line of elite made to order RAM. Of course, if you're going to sell this to the general product you're going to have to have massive prices for the DDR600 so demand matchs the supply. This would be to RAM like the Koenigsegg CCR or McLauren F1 is to cars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DudeMiester

I think this would be a good opportunity for Mushkin. It would be like a line of elite made to order RAM. Of course, if you're going to sell this to the general product you're going to have to have massive prices for the DDR600 so demand matchs the supply. This would be to RAM like the Koenigsegg CCR or McLauren F1 is to cars.

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More like AthlonFX or P4EE to CPU's ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iddqd

More like AthlonFX or P4EE to CPU's ;)

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his analogy is fine... mclarens and carerras are like several million compared to a $25k civic... :p: i dont think an afx/p4ee is a good analogy actually, because the EE and fx provide a very little performance/speed boost over their cheaper brothers, whereas cars, a mclaren would smoke a civic, and ddr600 = 50% faster than ddr400..... ;)

any news?

Duonger is enjoying a nice vacation.

He would give my email address to an engineer at Mushkin to contact me in the three weeks that he is on vacation.

Hope to hear from Mushkin soon.

count me in for some ddr400

Why?

because i said so?

If you just want some DDR400 and not planing on overclocking. This stuff would be perfect because its so cheap. The DDR400 is perfect for nonoverclockers who want cheap ram with good timings.

Duonger of Mushkin was kind enough to contact the engineers at Mushkin again about this, while he's on a vacation :clap:

He's a great guy and he's doing a lot to help me with this.


alexio

am i kinda late for this?^^
if alexio could help
i would like to have
2x DDR560 3.6v 2*512mb 2-2-2-5 $250
4x DDR600 3.8v 2*512mb 2-2-2-5 $300

that's 6 kits for $1700

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guess2098

am i kinda late for this?^^
if alexio could help
i would like to have
2x DDR560 3.6v 2*512mb 2-2-2-5 $250
4x DDR600 3.8v 2*512mb 2-2-2-5 $300

that's 6 kits for $1700

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not out yet ;)

I have some bad news. It is not going to happen :(

The circumstances at the moment just aren't right. DDR1 memory chips are getting more and more expensive lately and Mushkin is busy with some new stuff ;)

Just remember that "not" isn't the same as "never". Time will tell if my idea will ever be put to the test. Untill then you guys will just need to do the handpicking by yourself. Atleast that's what I'm going to do know, I have quite some BH-UTT comming my way and I suggest you guys do the same.

Best regards,

Alexio

Eh. DDR wont' stick around for much longer, anyway... even AMD is finally shifting over to DDRII (for no good reason).