6800le 'Black Screen' - The Complete Guide: Identification, modification and reason

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flib

Sanyo SAY Model

Kondensator, Sanyo, Elko, 1500uF/10V (PE=200Stk) SAY-0002
Typ: 10MV1500WGL
8x20 mm, RM 3,5, high quality, 105 GradC

are they fine?

These, I suppose:

http://www.sanyo.com/industrial/elec...oads/mv-wg.pdf

.. and you are considering one having size of 8x20 (mm), ripple current of 1870 mA and ESR 19 mohm (?) . Electrical performance (ESR, current) could be proper ((I have not yet managed to make final specs, reason = I have to sleep & REAL work *sometimes*, bad habits I know :D )) but the inductance due to leads might be too high. Therefore, I myself would not test with leaded components, but the same kind of surface mounted components (=physical size) that originals.

no. i got rid of it before i got the msi though.

How about these:

http://www.rapidelectronics.co.uk/rk...1100&XPAGENO=1

Just looked a bit more, these seem better:

http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/browse/M...oid=-668809231

I hear panasonic caps are supposed to be pretty good quality

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandaman

no. i got rid of it before i got the msi though.

Ok. However, noise can be very hard to heard since it is sometimes very quiet (especially when CD-player has low current consumption)

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

How about these:

http://www.rapidelectronics.co.uk/rk...1100&XPAGENO=1

Just looked a bit more, these seem better:

http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/browse/M...oid=-668809231

I hear panasonic caps are supposed to be pretty good quality

First one does not have all required specs and I could not open second one, you were logged to that page (?). Could you give a specific code for those caps ?
Panasonic is usually a good brand, but here are required soooooo good caps that even all capacitors from them can not meet requirements.

--

Are you still ready to measure caps ;) ? If you are.. then I'll try to post a figure for test points in few days..

Quote:

Originally posted by SikaRippa
- Have you 'AGP Fast Write' off or on ? (It is set usually in bios). There has been some freezing problems with some 6800-card when 'Fast Write' = on
- Is you card looking like the figures posted (which one) ? If not could you post a figure of it OR provide a link to web-page having such figure OR explain what is different comparing those cards ?
- Have you used the card for a long time ?
- Do you think that the noise is similar to those examples ?
- IMPORTANT ONE: when card hangs, is the noise high or low frequency ???

It is interesting that you have encourted quite similar freezing features than 'markiemrboo' (see posts above), it would be nice to know wheather your card has also *fixed* like 'GW version 1b'. I am just wondering IF this fix would remove BS, but makes card freeze sometimes (????).

Hi!
So, I have FastWrites turned On, cause it has a postive influence on 3D efficiency, and I tried it with FW Off as well, and these "hang ups" showed up anyway.
My card looks like this on figure 1 (it has written "Made in Taiwan") but I don't know if there may be some differences. I could post a photo, but tell my how should I do it please ;)
I'm using this card for 7 months now!
The noise during freezes does not come from the card, only from loudspeakers. It is something like you where rapidly increasing and decreasing the volume with extremley short delays... However It looks like the card itself gives some quiet squeaks during normal work :confused:

Best regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

First one does not have all required specs and I could not open second one, you were logged to that page (?). Could you give a specific code for those caps ?
Panasonic is usually a good brand, but here are required soooooo good caps that even all capacitors from them can not meet requirements.

--

Are you still ready to measure caps ;) ? If you are.. then I'll try to post a figure for test points in few days..

Ah, the second link I wasn't actually logged in. Their site just overly uses sessions. The specs of those caps are as follows:

Code:

* Low impedance ( 40 to 60 % less than FC series) * Miniaturisation (30 to 50% less than FC series) * Life time: 2000 to 5000 hours at 105 °C technical specification Temperature range -55 to + 105 °C Capacitor tolerance ± 20% Leakage current I = 0.01 CV or 3 ( µA) whichever is greater technical specification Volt Value tan Ripple impedance Dia. Length µF q mA Ω @ 100kHz mm mm 16V 10 0.16 90 1.35 4 5.8 16V 22 0.16 90 1.35 4 5.8 16V 47 0.16 160 0.7 5 5.8 16V 100 0.16 240 0.36 6.3 5.8 16V 220 0.16 300 0.26 8 6.2 16V 470 0.16 600 0.16 8 10.2 25V 10 0.14 90 1.35 4 5.8 25V 47 0.14 240 0.36 6.3 5.8 25V 100 0.14 300 0.26 8 6.2 25V 220 0.14 600 0.16 8 10.2 25V 470 0.14 850 0.08 10 10.2 35V 10 0.12 90 1.35 4 5.8 35V 22 0.12 160 0.7 5 5.8 35V 47 0.12 240 0.36 6.3 5.8 35V 100 0.12 600 0.16 8 10.2 35V 220 0.12 600 0.16 8 10.2 50V 10 0.1 85 1.52 5 5.8 50V 22 0.1 165 0.88 6.3 5.8 50V 47 0.1 195 0.68 8 6.2 50V 100 0.1 350 0.34 8 10.2 50V 220 0.1 670 0.18 10 10.2 50V 1000 0.1 1610 0.073 16 16.5 100V 47 0.07 500 0.32 12.5 13.5 100V 220 0.07 917 0.153 18 16.5

Hope that's readable enough?

Sure, I am still willing to measure things. When measuring, should I do measurements while the card is working find and while it's in a black screen state? I have an exam Monday, but then I have a couple of weeks until my next ones. So, probly won't be able to get you any results until sometime Monday/Tuesday. Is that ok?

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

Ah, the second link I wasn't actually logged in. Their site just overly uses sessions. The specs of those caps are as follows:

Code:

* Low impedance ( 40 to 60 % less than FC series) * Miniaturisation (30 to 50% less than FC series) * Life time: 2000 to 5000 hours at 105 °C technical specification Temperature range -55 to + 105 °C Capacitor tolerance ± 20% Leakage current I = 0.01 CV or 3 ( µA) whichever is greater technical specification Volt Value tan Ripple impedance Dia. Length µF q mA Ω @ 100kHz mm mm 16V 10 0.16 90 1.35 4 5.8 16V 22 0.16 90 1.35 4 5.8 16V 47 0.16 160 0.7 5 5.8 16V 100 0.16 240 0.36 6.3 5.8 16V 220 0.16 300 0.26 8 6.2 16V 470 0.16 600 0.16 8 10.2 25V 10 0.14 90 1.35 4 5.8 25V 47 0.14 240 0.36 6.3 5.8 25V 100 0.14 300 0.26 8 6.2 25V 220 0.14 600 0.16 8 10.2 25V 470 0.14 850 0.08 10 10.2 35V 10 0.12 90 1.35 4 5.8 35V 22 0.12 160 0.7 5 5.8 35V 47 0.12 240 0.36 6.3 5.8 35V 100 0.12 600 0.16 8 10.2 35V 220 0.12 600 0.16 8 10.2 50V 10 0.1 85 1.52 5 5.8 50V 22 0.1 165 0.88 6.3 5.8 50V 47 0.1 195 0.68 8 6.2 50V 100 0.1 350 0.34 8 10.2 50V 220 0.1 670 0.18 10 10.2 50V 1000 0.1 1610 0.073 16 16.5 100V 47 0.07 500 0.32 12.5 13.5 100V 220 0.07 917 0.153 18 16.5

Hope that's readable enough?

Sure, I am still willing to measure things. When measuring, should I do measurements while the card is working find and while it's in a black screen state? I have an exam Monday, but then I have a couple of weeks until my next ones. So, probly won't be able to get you any results until sometime Monday/Tuesday. Is that ok?

Thank you providing those specs ... hard to say if thay are good enough !! I am worring about too low 'Ripple' values for current.

--

I hope that I am able to refine those specs, before that I CAN NOT say which capacitors would be good replacement (IF those should be replaced at all ..)

--

DO NOT STRESS with measurements, if you can make those it is fine even take some time :)

((I am very busy too and maybe I have no time to finish that figure for measurements soon...))

S..t!!! Finally I've got it! BS, I think! :mad:
I played Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and after 30 min. I've got this "hang up" again. But few seconds later screen went black and I had no choice but to reset the system. However, the sound went back to normal (I've heard normal background from the game), monitor didn't go to suspend mode and I saw the mouse pointer, but pressing Alt+F3 or Alt+Tab was useless, I wasn't able to go back to the desktop (for the first time!) :(

I'm back now to stock clock settings but on 12p,6v config. I'll see if this will be better. The funny thing is (and I've forgot to mention it in the first place) that for some time (after the first OS reinstalling, when I had my GW 2100Le for about 2 months) the drivers, Riva Tuner and Power Strip are showing that for me the default frequencies are: 325/745 !!! Where normally it should be 300/700!

Please advise!

regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Thank you providing those specs ... hard to say if thay are good enough !! I am worring about too low 'Ripple' values for current.

--

I hope that I am able to refine those specs, before that I CAN NOT say which capacitors would be good replacement (IF those should be replaced at all ..)

--

DO NOT STRESS with measurements, if you can make those it is fine even take some time :)

((I am very busy too and maybe I have no time to finish that figure for measurements soon...))

I did notice the low ripple values too. I figured the caps on there would probably be about the same kind of specs though. Anyway, they're the closest things I can find to what is already on the card. Well, in the UK anyway :)

I'll wait for your figure and see what happens with the measurements before I go trying to swap caps around though :banana:

---

That black screen is an interesting one. The fact that you could see your mouse pointer makes it sound even more like the driver is doing something odd. What driver version are you using? What about DirectX version? DirectX 9.0C?

I've installed VNC on my machine finally, so after my exam I will force it to a black screen and see if I can still connect :)

I'm using 71.89 dirver and DirectX 9.0C (OS: WinXp HE with SP2)... All looks well, other games go OK (eg. SWAT, Brothers in Arms). But FarCry and Splinter 3 do not :( Maybe it is related to the Pixel Sahders 3.0 somehow ? I don't know what to think about it all. Is this only a soft problem or I am an owner of defected card too :( ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertos

I'm using 71.89 dirver and DirectX 9.0C (OS: WinXp HE with SP2)... All looks well, other games go OK (eg. SWAT, Brothers in Arms). But FarCry and Splinter 3 do not :( Maybe it is related to the Pixel Sahders 3.0 somehow ? I don't know what to think about it all. Is this only a soft problem or I am an owner of defected card too :( ...

I don't think anyone is entirely sure why it's happening. I personally think that the black screen is some sort of driver bug. What's causing it to get to that state though seems to be related to the actual hardware, specifically the memory, on these NU/LE cards. I don't think I have heard of a GT or Ultra with the black screen problem and I can stop my black screens and pausing by lowering my memory overclock.

Is your problem reproducable? Will it always black screen after a certain period of time whilst playing FarCry and SC3? You could see if lowering your memory clock speeds helps to get rid of the problem. Otherwise, give the extra capacitor mod a try :)

Unfortunately I don't have so much time to spent few hours a day by the computer ;) to check if some settings are better then another and to be sure that this is for real, but after seven months with this card I'd might say that this is rather random, however playing with lower clocks (eg. 325/745) is safer. But I'm not sure, because sometimes it happens anyway... Driver and its version has nothing to do with this (it happend from ForceWare 66.81 up to today's 71.89)...
I'm a little bit angry already, because I've spent almost 350 Euro for this card, and now, from your expirience, I see that I must to help myself alone by some modifications, cause Gainward even doesn't want to give an official statement about it !
One thing bothers me yet. Could you advise, how to be sure, that in my case the reason are faulty caps as you described ? (I must admit that I'm pretty "green" as far as all these electronical details are concerned ;) )

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertos

One thing bothers me yet. Could you advise, how to be sure, that in my case the reason are faulty caps as you described ? (I must admit that I'm pretty "green" as far as all these electronical details are concerned ;) )

Me too :) I'm capable of soldering and bits and pieces to do some of the simpler volt mods, but that's about it!

Adding the cap hasn't helped me overclock my card any higher. It seemed to stop my pauses at the same memory clocks for a day or two, then they just came back again :(

It seems that other people have had success fixing the problem though, so it might be worth giving it a try. Post from earlier in the thread:

Quote:

I Just wanted to say a BIG Wooping Thx you for posting this solution!!!

The TP 9/TP 10 cap mod works like a charm on my GW ver.1 6800LE card!!
My card had BS problems running 16/6@300/700. I could run it at 300/491 without BS but that kinda sucks... so this post came like Mana from the heaven's.

I bought a 1000uf/16v cap at the local tv-repair shop and went home to try it out. Doing the TP9/TP10 mod was a walk in the park, just pushed the cap into the holes and installed the card into the box again... I must say that i was a little nervous when I pushed the power-button... But no worry's man! It worked like a charm

I've been playing games that BS'ed my card for 3 days now and not a singel BS

So if you ever find yourself in Norway, send me an email and I'll

Thx again Sikarippa, good work!

Stoneheart
Last edited by stoneheart : 04-19-2005 at 09:25 AM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertos

S..t!!! Finally I've got it! BS, I think! :mad:
I played Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and after 30 min. I've got this "hang up" again. But few seconds later screen went black and I had no choice but to reset the system. However, the sound went back to normal (I've heard normal background from the game), monitor didn't go to suspend mode and I saw the mouse pointer, but pressing Alt+F3 or Alt+Tab was useless, I wasn't able to go back to the desktop (for the first time!) :(

I'm back now to stock clock settings but on 12p,6v config. I'll see if this will be better. The funny thing is (and I've forgot to mention it in the first place) that for some time (after the first OS reinstalling, when I had my GW 2100Le for about 2 months) the drivers, Riva Tuner and Power Strip are showing that for me the default frequencies are: 325/745 !!! Where normally it should be 300/700!

Please advise!

regards

I have seen so many BS's, so I think that when you still can hear some sound or/and see a mouse pointer it is NOT BS, but something else. Also freezing is not BS but only a complete shut down. BS is hardware problem, simply because so many people (like me) has encountered it with a number of computers/software/drivers/etc - and it is allways the same.

Maybe you and markiemrboo have the same (new) different problem ??

--

Have you made a BS-test with Skiapline-demo (see instructions in first post)?
If possible DO it, beacuse GW6800le version 1 -cards USUALLY make BS with the test. I think you should have that version, because it is over half year old and has "4 3 470 6E"-caps.

--

'The faulty caps' is JUST a theory and I am (now) investiging what OTHER aspects (=components) can cause BS. Even if the theory is correct SOME/MANY capacitances having certain codes CAN meet the specifications - we have seen that e.g cards having "4 8 470 6E'-caps run very well when new, but fail after some (2,3,?) months.

--

About figure of your card.. if you think it is exactly the same as in document, maybe is not required. But if you have a better quality figure it could be inserted to document... if you have: please comment and I will send a private message for you with instructions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

I did notice the low ripple values too. I figured the caps on there would probably be about the same kind of specs though. Anyway, they're the closest things I can find to what is already on the card. Well, in the UK anyway :)

I'll wait for your figure and see what happens with the measurements before I go trying to swap caps around though :banana:

---

That black screen is an interesting one. The fact that you could see your mouse pointer makes it sound even more like the driver is doing something odd. What driver version are you using? What about DirectX version? DirectX 9.0C?

I've installed VNC on my machine finally, so after my exam I will force it to a black screen and see if I can still connect :)

Getting GOOD quality caps (in small volumes) is a challange :) I have requested samples for very good caps (i.e. for free :D :D) - we will see wheather they will send them !

--

Yes, I think is not good idea to change caps before having very good caps and final specs for them. Moreover, when we have investigated the capacitance measurement results between 'GW version 1b' and other cards - it might be possible to find out more clever modification. I am now 101 % sure that they have mofied the feedback of the swithing regulator for 'GW version 1b' (see misaligned capacitors in #1). And that modification can be answer to prevent BS even when having those green caps (c136..) !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

I have seen so many BS's, so I think that when you still can hear some sound or/and see a mouse pointer it is NOT BS, but something else. Also freezing is not BS but only a complete shut down. BS is hardware problem, simply because so many people (like me) has encountered it with a number of computers/software/drivers/etc - and it is allways the same.

Maybe you and markiemrboo have the same (new) different problem ??

--

Have you made a BS-test with Skiapline-demo (see instructions in first post)?
If possible DO it, beacuse GW6800le version 1 -cards USUALLY make BS with the test. I think you should have that version, because it is over half year old and has "4 3 470 6E"-caps.

--

'The faulty caps' is JUST a theory and I am (now) investiging what OTHER aspects (=components) can cause BS. Even if the theory is correct SOME/MANY capacitances having certain codes CAN meet the specifications - we have seen that e.g cards having "4 8 470 6E'-caps run very well when new, but fail after some (2,3,?) months.

--

About figure of your card.. if you think it is exactly the same as in document, maybe is not required. But if you have a better quality figure it could be inserted to document... if you have: please comment and I will send a private message for you with instructions.

Well, I don't have a mouse pointer visible. All I know is that the only way out of the black screen I have been able to find is hitting the reset button! I'm pretty sure it's the same problem? Do you have a card that you can force to a black screen? Are you able to ping that machine while it's sitting black screened?

Just had another thought. Maybe turning off monitor power savings might stop it going to a black screen? The black screen is actually my monitor going in to standby... do you have the monitor set to go to standby when idle for X minutes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

Well, I don't have a mouse pointer visible. All I know is that the only way out of the black screen I have been able to find is hitting the reset button! I'm pretty sure it's the same problem? Do you have a card that you can force to a black screen? Are you able to ping that machine while it's sitting black screened?

Just had another thought. Maybe turning off monitor power savings might stop it going to a black screen? The black screen is actually my monitor going in to standby... do you have the monitor set to go to standby when idle for X minutes?

Still awake ;) (In Finland it is already monday now..)

--

Yep. The mouse pointer comment was for Bertos - I think he is only one with THAT feature (?)

I do not have BS-card right now, so it can not tested. For me the BS's have not been like monitor standby. It is easy to proof: the measured voltages before and after BS in certain TP's are different and those indicates that card has been shut down. In the datasheet for the switching regulator there is mentioned that from that kind of state the only way out is having hard reset for supply voltages - which can be only obtained by switching PC OFF/ON i.e. it can not be wake up by software.

What do you think, could you measure e.g. memory voltage after BS (or during freeze)?

lol yep! It's 11pm here. Gonna go to bed after I write this most likely :)

Well if your voltages are different than when it isn't black screened, I think it may well be both of us having something a little different. When mine's black screened, the extra capacitor reads 2.78v like it should do, but since my problem seems memory related that's the only voltage I measured. From your little table on page 1 it looks like TP9 and 10 should be dead in the black screen state though! The newer revision card still has a voltage on TP10, but that doesn't black screen!

I guess this must be something different that I am getting then? How very odd! Well, looks like we now have two totally different types of black screens with these cards then I guess :)

does anybody know if the Gainward PowerPack! UL/2100 TV-DVI GF6800 128MB
Gainward 471846200-6084 has suffered from BS?

and if noit, how noisy is the fan on that?

http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/gainwa...le/page7.shtml

Looks like there are two versions of that 'pack' thing. One with the dual fan cooler and one with a quieter reference style cooler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

lol yep! It's 11pm here. Gonna go to bed after I write this most likely :)

Well if your voltages are different than when it isn't black screened, I think it may well be both of us having something a little different. When mine's black screened, the extra capacitor reads 2.78v like it should do, but since my problem seems memory related that's the only voltage I measured. From your little table on page 1 it looks like TP9 and 10 should be dead in the black screen state though! The newer revision card still has a voltage on TP10, but that doesn't black screen!

I guess this must be something different that I am getting then? How very odd! Well, looks like we now have two totally different types of black screens with these cards then I guess :)

I think it is quite clear if you can measure correct Vmem after BS: it is a 'different' BS.

--

By the way that 'version 1b'-card is measured has (or had I fixed it :D ) MANUFACTURING FAULT and therefore voltages were too high - I will post details in next update.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/gainwa...le/page7.shtml

Looks like there are two versions of that 'pack' thing. One with the dual fan cooler and one with a quieter reference style cooler.

I found exactly the same figures before, but I put only the 'one fan' version to the document (Fig 6) and it seems (?) to have "4 3 470 6E" caps = might be BS-affected. Figure for the dual fan was so poor that I could not get the values for caps. This card might be quite rare since only a few figures/comments can be found..

A version 1.6 has been posted !!!

- EASY memory voltage modification
- Comments about 'GW version 1b' -card with manufacturing fault - that was the reason WHY memory voltage values were too high level

thanks, yes ive seen there are two version. im interested in the single fan one but Im afraid it might BS on me.

Anybody got that card?

well the company im dealing with have both Gainward version in stock, and plenty of them.

i am concerned about BS on the single fan version

i may just pay an extra 70 quid and get the Galaxy Glacier 6800GT. any reports of problems with that? Or maybe with a AMD 64 3200 + CPU it wouldnt be worth it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandaman

well the company im dealing with have both Gainward version in stock, and plenty of them.

i am concerned about BS on the single fan version

i may just pay an extra 70 quid and get the Galaxy Glacier 6800GT. any reports of problems with that? Or maybe with a AMD 64 3200 + CPU it wouldnt be worth it?

I wonder that anybody can guarantee wheather those will give (or not) BS in future since nobody has been reported anything about those versions (as I know).

If you consider GW 'version 2': those cards are working at first very well, BUT many users are complaining about BS after some months. The very wierd version 1b seems to be modified afterwards (see comments in #1), BUT it is not yet shown to be BS-affected (used ~1 month). How long this version will survive without BS (forever???). The reasons why I am very suspicious of this model are:

- This model generates exactly the same noisy audio as other versions (=switching regulator is not working very well)
- Quite same capacitors (c136 & c143) are used as an output filter and only little modifications were carried out at the feedback loop

Are those two models you reported similar to these version (nobody knows..)???

--

I suggest that if you want to be sure not to get BS and you have extra 70$ go for Galaxy. However, it would be good idea to before ask wheather these GW's are new/better models and is it now guaranteed those are non-BS-models !

If you mind ask this from you PC-company, please post their answer :) Also if you are able to take a close look of cards, could you check out what codes are at top of those green-labeled caps (c136 & c143) i.e. "4 7 470 6E" ;)

The supplier is not very good at allowing me to check what the versions are.

the customer services dept and the stock pickers who send the cards out dont seem to comunicate very well because its quite a big company so i seem to be wasting my time when i request that they check the capacitor labels before despatching them.

So i dont hold much faith in them being able to tell me if the Gainwards are old or new models. Like i said, ive had the dual fan Gainward already, but unless u are deaf its not worth it. i didnt get BS with it but then i only played for an hour before removing it and sending it back.

Theres only GBP35 ($65) difference between the Gainward and the Galaxy GT and for that I get a quiet cooler and a GT version! i guess its worth it. Im just a little concerned that i cant find a website for Galaxy.

Im also a little put out that these cards cost 50% more than the PS3 and Xbox 360! are we mad!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandaman

The supplier is not very good at allowing me to check what the versions are.

the customer services dept and the stock pickers who send the cards out dont seem to comunicate very well because its quite a big company so i seem to be wasting my time when i request that they check the capacitor labels before despatching them.

So i dont hold much faith in them being able to tell me if the Gainwards are old or new models. Like i said, ive had the dual fan Gainward already, but unless u are deaf its not worth it. i didnt get BS with it but then i only played for an hour before removing it and sending it back.

Theres only GBP35 ($65) difference between the Gainward and the Galaxy GT and for that I get a quiet cooler and a GT version! i guess its worth it. Im just a little concerned that i cant find a website for Galaxy.

Im also a little put out that these cards cost 50% more than the PS3 and Xbox 360! are we mad!?

OK. I am sure you are right, they propably do not want anybody to check they hardware except very good reason :rolleyes: But, if they would be aware of this problem (?) I wonder they would not want to sell products coming back during a few months.

--

I checked the figures of Galaxy, and it has nice cooler :D (NV 5?). So, if you do want a new card go for Galaxy..

--

Yes, we are mad when buing these (even working ones) !!! I had ti4200 and STILL all games released so far are working somehow with that model... so, why .. we have been manipulated by all reviews/benchmarks/a-friend-having-brand-new-card to belive that without a new card cannot live.

The reason why consoles are so cheap is purely business. After buing one (=at price lower than manufacturing cost) you will buy 'again' your console with license fees of each game.

Hello, is the "Enhanced capacitor modification" possible to do without removing the NV5 Silencer from the card?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

Hello, is the "Enhanced capacitor modification" possible to do without removing the NV5 Silencer from the card?

Hi KoR_Wraith,

Yes, very easily. Place capacitor at bottom side of the card . Use the figure to locate the TPs, and be sure about the polarity of the capacitor !!

It's funny that this error is collectively known as BS. I've been looking for the solution to this error on my system. This exact problem of BS happens to my BFG Tech 6800GT OC (factory overclocked) PCIe. My first call with tech support had me downloading EVEREST Home Edition to see if my card was overheating. Thats what I thought was happening because you can fry an egg on the back of the cards. My card is only at about 75 celcius when it drops out and the tech said these babies dont shut down until 135 C! Also, they had me switch the power cables around to no avail. I found this thread and have since called tech support for the second time. Looks like they will RMA but want to charge me for shipping it to them. I'm still talking to them about waiving this.
For me, Far Cry 64 drops out on Windows Pro x64 Beta after just 10 minutes usually. Both 3dMark05 and 3dMark03 go BS half way through. Aquamark and Alpin will not run (they dont want to install).
For $400 USD you would expect the product to work the first time around. They need to bench these card properly before they leave the factory. Do these people know about this and ship the cards anyway? I kind of expect the PCIe cards to be 'newer', and not have a design flaw carried over from the 6800le.

I've got:
AMD64 3000+
MSI Neo4-f Nforce4
Corsair Value Select D. Channel 1024mb
Themaltake PurePower 480w
BFG 6800 gt oc pcie 256

Hello again,

I'm thinking about adding this capacitor to my card, to check if it will solve the problem with pausing and hangin' up...
Cause I'm a little bit confused with this all electronical spec. you've given here, I'm asking you for a kind of recapitulation: what should I tell to my reseller in electronic parts shop to buy a good capacitor for easy cap. mod.? (I have GW 2100 LE)

thanks in advance

Incredible. Just incredible.

I just read through the whole of the first post about this whole BS issue.

My Sparkle 6800NU had a problem with BS back when it was in my old P4 Prescott setup. I had lockups under heavy load in progs such as 3DMark03 and 05 as well as Games like Doom3 and HL2 (HL2 moreso). I really could not figure out the source of my problems, and the card worked fine in any other PC, which was what led me to believe that this is not the same problem as what people were experiencing here.

In the end I upgraded to A64 at the start of this year and that remedied all my problems. I've since upgraded my PSU to an OCZ 520W (Antec 480W before) so one of these days i'll see if i've got the same prob when using another PSU. I've babbled on enough though.

Very nice guide. :)

---dens

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredhand

It's funny that this error is collectively known as BS. I've been looking for the solution to this error on my system. This exact problem of BS happens to my BFG Tech 6800GT OC (factory overclocked) PCIe. My first call with tech support had me downloading EVEREST Home Edition to see if my card was overheating. Thats what I thought was happening because you can fry an egg on the back of the cards. My card is only at about 75 celcius when it drops out and the tech said these babies dont shut down until 135 C! Also, they had me switch the power cables around to no avail. I found this thread and have since called tech support for the second time. Looks like they will RMA but want to charge me for shipping it to them. I'm still talking to them about waiving this.
For me, Far Cry 64 drops out on Windows Pro x64 Beta after just 10 minutes usually. Both 3dMark05 and 3dMark03 go BS half way through. Aquamark and Alpin will not run (they dont want to install).
For $400 USD you would expect the product to work the first time around. They need to bench these card properly before they leave the factory. Do these people know about this and ship the cards anyway? I kind of expect the PCIe cards to be 'newer', and not have a design flaw carried over from the 6800le.

I've got:
AMD64 3000+
MSI Neo4-f Nforce4
Corsair Value Select D. Channel 1024mb
Themaltake PurePower 480w
BFG 6800 gt oc pcie 256

I agree the name 'black screen' or BS is not very informative. However, that name was used in GW's forum at first and I think that it is the most commonly used term ..
but now there is no idea to change it now !!

--

Is your card exactly similar to post #1 ? I mean you have magenta labels top of those caps (c136&c143) ??

--

I wonder you have (also) some extra problems (windows?), because you cannot install Skialpine and pass 3dmark's (e.g. I have never encounter BS with 3dmark's)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertos

Hello again,

I'm thinking about adding this capacitor to my card, to check if it will solve the problem with pausing and hangin' up...
Cause I'm a little bit confused with this all electronical spec. you've given here, I'm asking you for a kind of recapitulation: what should I tell to my reseller in electronic parts shop to buy a good capacitor for easy cap. mod.? (I have GW 2100 LE)

thanks in advance

Yes, there are maybe too much specs and requirements, here is a very simply list for shopping:

- Voltage rating > 6 V (too large means large can)
- Capacitance 3300 - 4700 uF (microfards)
- LOW ESR !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeNs

Incredible. Just incredible.

I just read through the whole of the first post about this whole BS issue.

My Sparkle 6800NU had a problem with BS back when it was in my old P4 Prescott setup. I had lockups under heavy load in progs such as 3DMark03 and 05 as well as Games like Doom3 and HL2 (HL2 moreso). I really could not figure out the source of my problems, and the card worked fine in any other PC, which was what led me to believe that this is not the same problem as what people were experiencing here.

In the end I upgraded to A64 at the start of this year and that remedied all my problems. I've since upgraded my PSU to an OCZ 520W (Antec 480W before) so one of these days i'll see if i've got the same prob when using another PSU. I've babbled on enough though.

Very nice guide. :)

---dens

First Sparkle !!! The list of affected cards will be looooog quite soon..

--

Could you give labels of those green capacitors c136&c143 (e.g. "4 8 470 6E) ? Do you know a web-page having a good-quality figure of your card ?

Thanks for the advice, SikaRippa

Best regards

Hi, don't know if this is relevent or not but I have the MSI card featured in

http://img260.echo.cx/my.php?image=msi6800lev14jo.jpg

And it is most certainly affected by BS. If I don't lower the memory clock speed it can also frequently black screen just running windows...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

It might have a good idea to buy a BS-affected card for heavy-duty-testing-purposes :D . But I wonder that £145.00 (that one is yours ?) is too high cost for that purpose: removing capacitors etc. and measuring them i.e. most likely destroying the card.

if you're still interested my old Gainward has went down to £99.00 - £116.33 inc VAT

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

Hi, don't know if this is relevent or not but I have the MSI card featured in

http://img260.echo.cx/my.php?image=msi6800lev14jo.jpg

And it is most certainly affected by BS. If I don't lower the memory clock speed it can also frequently black screen just running windows...

It seems to have all features to be a BS-card. Do you have markings of "4 3 470 6E" or "4 8 470 6E" above green labelled caps ? When having "3" usually black screen has been appeared VERY soon, when tested with proper games.

If you want, you can test cap modification very easily without any soldering (see instructions). When testing with cap AND having normal clock frequency, you should see immediately the difference at performance (no more BS..)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunn

if you're still interested my old Gainward has went down to £99.00 - £116.33 inc VAT

You were right getting cheaper :D !! It would be nice to have a test-rat, but if that one is still working ....

I wonder if somebody has a completely DEAD BS-affected 6800le-card i.e. almost free (?) and does not annoy anybody to solder some/every components away.

thanks for the advice. i have asked them for the Galaxy. Ill let u know what they say.

Hi again, there are any electronic shops near where I live...anyone know a good website that I can get one of the recommended capacitors off of?

P.S. I live in the UK

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

Hi again, there are any electronic shops near where I live...anyone know a good website that I can get one of the recommended capacitors off of?

P.S. I live in the UK

I live in Finland, so I do not hanging around those corners too much :rolleyes:
I am sure you can find a proper electronic component shop in every big/moderate size city in UK

BUT you can easily find (=rip off) a suitable component from old motherboard or PC supply etc. (Please check first that it is not broken/too old cap!) Those caps might not be the best you can find, but you can test the mod without any cost (and delay). I have myself tested mod with regular cap and it worked !

However, if you buy capacitors for this purpose select a good quality component.

Hello again, I found the site of an UK electronics shop - www.maplin.co.uk. Anyway, they have a whole list of different types capacitors . If you would be so kind as to kindly choose what one would best suit this purpose it would be a great help :D . The list is available at :
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...r&doy=28m5

Thanks, KoR_Wraith

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

Hello again, I found the site of an UK electronics shop - www.maplin.co.uk. Anyway, they have a whole list of different types capacitors . If you would be so kind as to kindly choose what one would best suit this purpose it would be a great help :D . The list is available at :
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...r&doy=28m5

Thanks, KoR_Wraith

I checked the list.. I wonder that they do not have optimal models for this purpose, but IF you should select from those:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Mproduct.asp?oc=TX84F

.. should meet the electrical requirements. Why not optimal ? The voltage rating is quite high (63v) which makes the physical size of the capacitor quite big (30x60mm).

I wonder why they have so few different capacitors ? I you are extrelemely interesting/and not afraid of Finnish language :D take a look list of local supplier (a very small BUT good shop):

http://www.partco.fi/luettelot/PARTCO2005-OSA2.PDF

(in page 10 there are electrolytic capacitors, in the middle of that page one can see the exact model I have used "ELKO LOW ESR PYSTYMALLI").

w00t, I think I found ones that would work good! Which would you go for:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...=CA01869&N=411

or

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...=CA01879&N=411

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

w00t, I think I found ones that would work good! Which would you go for:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...=CA01869&N=411

or

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...=CA01879&N=411

Yes, those look like just perfect :D

Take one having value of 3300 uF.

--

If/when you have done the mod, please post how it succeeded :)

EDIT: Ooops, never mind. I read the table wrong! I'll go measure the right points now lol

Ok, even worse? TP5, which should be reading half the memory voltage (1.36v on your table)?? Well, that appears to be reading 0v on my card? TP7, which is right next to TP5, is reading 3.3v like on your table.

Next to TP7, is that TP8 or TP9? Because that is reading 0.6v on mine. I think that's TP8 and it's alright though.

Do those sound wrong to you?? I'm a little concerned that TP5 is reading 0v..

UPDATE: Just seem something else a little weird, there's three points to measure memory voltage? Well, TP10 reads 2.82v ... but TP14 is only reading 2.72v still! I'm gonna stick a lead on TP1 and measure that now too..

Perhaps I didn't do the memory vmod quite right?

UPDATE 2: TP1 also reads 2.82v .. it's just TP14 which is reading lower!

I updated some missing links for figures, those figures were DISAPPEARED from 'imageshack', wierd...

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

EDIT: Ooops, never mind. I read the table wrong! I'll go measure the right points now lol

Ok, even worse? TP5, which should be reading half the memory voltage (1.36v on your table)?? Well, that appears to be reading 0v on my card? TP7, which is right next to TP5, is reading 3.3v like on your table.

Next to TP7, is that TP8 or TP9? Because that is reading 0.6v on mine. I think that's TP8 and it's alright though.

Do those sound wrong to you?? I'm a little concerned that TP5 is reading 0v..

UPDATE: Just seem something else a little weird, there's three points to measure memory voltage? Well, TP10 reads 2.82v ... but TP14 is only reading 2.72v still! I'm gonna stick a lead on TP1 and measure that now too..

Perhaps I didn't do the memory vmod quite right?

UPDATE 2: TP1 also reads 2.82v .. it's just TP14 which is reading lower!

The table is not so nice, but I could not tabulate it since you can not put any extra spaces etc. between numbers :mad:

--

Please, check the figure 13, to be sure you have measured correct points. Here, a short list (maybe more clear one) what I got (measurement accuracy +/- ~10mV):

TP1 = 2.72 V (VDD_MEM)
TP2 = 0 V
TP3 = 1.37 V (VDD_MEM/2, VTT/VREF for memory ?)
TP4 = 0 V
TP5 = 1.36 V (VDD_MEM/2, VTT/VREF for memory ?)
TP6 = 0 V
TP7 = 3.35 V (some REFERENCE ?)
TP8 = 0.60 V (Internal REFERENCE buffered out ?)
TP9 = 0 V
TP10 = 2.72 V (VDD_MEM)
TP11 = 1.12 V (VDD_GPU, not directly)
TP12 = 0.61 V (REFERENCE for Vgpu, for feedback)
TP13 = 3.31 V (VREF, used for Vmem generation)
TP14 = 2.72 V (Generated from VREF with resistor division determines VMEM)

--

If you measure VERY different values, something is badly wrong ..

--

Are you still ready to measure capacitances :)

I found a way to measure ALL feedback component values without removing those components from card :D The accuracy is not 1%, but I think that enough the compare BS and non-BS cards and cards modified afterwards !!

I'll try to make instructions&figures quite soon..

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

The table is not so nice, but I could not tabulate it since you can not put any extra spaces etc. between numbers :mad:

--

Please, check the figure 13, to be sure you have measured correct points. Here, a short list (maybe more clear one) what I got (measurement accuracy +/- ~10mV):

TP1 = 2.72 V (VDD_MEM)
TP2 = 0 V
TP3 = 1.37 V (VDD_MEM/2, VTT/VREF for memory ?)
TP4 = 0 V
TP5 = 1.36 V (VDD_MEM/2, VTT/VREF for memory ?)
TP6 = 0 V
TP7 = 3.35 V (some REFERENCE ?)
TP8 = 0.60 V (Internal REFERENCE buffered out ?)
TP9 = 0 V
TP10 = 2.72 V (VDD_MEM)
TP11 = 1.12 V (VDD_GPU, not directly)
TP12 = 0.61 V (REFERENCE for Vgpu, for feedback)
TP13 = 3.31 V (VREF, used for Vmem generation)
TP14 = 2.72 V (Generated from VREF with resistor division determines VMEM)

--

If you measure VERY different values, something is badly wrong ..

--

Are you still ready to measure capacitances :)

I found a way to measure ALL feedback component values without removing those components from card :D The accuracy is not 1%, but I think that enough the compare BS and non-BS cards and cards modified afterwards !!

I'll try to make instructions&figures quite soon..

That table is a lot clearer, thanks.

My main concern is that I don't seem to be reading anything at all from TP3 or TP5. All the rest are ok, but aren't TP3 and TP5 for the memory? I was hoping that maybe I had found a cause why my memory won't clock as high as it should? Could this perhaps be why? I assume with a memory voltage of 2.8v I should be getting readings of 1.4v from those two points?

I finished my last exam today, so I would be more than happy to measure anything you want... although I perhaps don't have the same black screen as others are experiencing, perhaps my results could still come in useful. :)

:toast:

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

That table is a lot clearer, thanks.

My main concern is that I don't seem to be reading anything at all from TP3 or TP5. All the rest are ok, but aren't TP3 and TP5 for the memory? I was hoping that maybe I had found a cause why my memory won't clock as high as it should? Could this perhaps be why? I assume with a memory voltage of 2.8v I should be getting readings of 1.4v from those two points?

I finished my last exam today, so I would be more than happy to measure anything you want... although I perhaps don't have the same black screen as others are experiencing, perhaps my results could still come in useful. :)

:toast:

That is very wierd indeed.. as you can I measured VMEM/2 also with Gainward 1b (which had wrong memory voltage). So, there IS something wrong with your card - maybe this causes your problem.

I assume that these TP's corresponds to VTT/VREF voltages (not sure !), and by having 0 V in those point means for me that card cannot work !

--

Do you think that layout of your card is EXACTLY the same as shown in those figures (e.g. GW-cards) . Could your measure resistance & capacitance values of those TP's (you can compare to values I have posted!).

--

Measurement instructions are not ready, I will add they to next update
(nice that you still want help :) )

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

That is very wierd indeed.. as you can I measured VMEM/2 also with Gainward 1b (which had wrong memory voltage). So, there IS something wrong with your card - maybe this causes your problem.

I assume that these TP's corresponds to VTT/VREF voltages (not sure !), and by having 0 V in those point means for me that card cannot work !

--

Do you think that layout of your card is EXACTLY the same as shown in those figures (e.g. GW-cards) . Could your measure resistance & capacitance values of those TP's (you can compare to values I have posted!).

--

Measurement instructions are not ready, I will add they to next update
(nice that you still want help :) )

It's incredibly weird, and I am rather worried about it :) It's definately odd that I get 0v from both TP5 and TP3 but my card still actually still works. I've double checked the readings, i've put a wire in the TP point, tight fit, and measured by the wire... but still 0v readings.

If anyone else with a Leadtek 6800NU could measure TP3 and TP5 and tell me if they also get 0v that would be interesting for me.

The layout of my board seems to be the same. I'll measure those values tomorrow morning and get back to you.

Ah ha! Turns out I was measuring TP2 not TP3, as the board is reversed from the picture (I was measuring the back of the card and the picture I was using as a reference was a shot of the front of the card), oops!!

SO, I get 1.40v on TP3, but still 0v on TP5. Definately TP5, I can just about read the writing saying TP5 on the hole from underneath the Arctic Cooler, as it's close to the edge of the board!

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

Ah ha! Turns out I was measuring TP2 not TP3, as the board is reversed from the picture (I was measuring the back of the card and the picture I was using as a reference was a shot of the front of the card), oops!!

SO, I get 1.40v on TP3, but still 0v on TP5. Definately TP5, I can just about read the writing saying TP5 on the hole from underneath the Arctic Cooler, as it's close to the edge of the board!

OK :), nice that TP3 is clear now ! Are you still sure about TP5 and you are not measuring TP4 (see Fig 13). At least I measured that point :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

OK :), nice that TP3 is clear now ! Are you still sure about TP5 and you are not measuring TP4 (see Fig 13). At least I measured that point :rolleyes:

Absolutely sure, I can see TP5 written on the spot underneath and it reads nothing :(

I'm prolly gonna buy a Leadtek 6800NU monday. Saw that there had been one incident of BS on a Leadtek 6800NU. Had an MSI 6800LE before which was BS, RMA'd it but only got aprox 80% of my money back, no explanation why. I'd hate to have BS problems again. Do you know if the Leadtek 6800NU still has these problems?

Thanks. :toast:

Quote:

Originally Posted by krille

I'm prolly gonna buy a Leadtek 6800NU monday. Saw that there had been one incident of BS on a Leadtek 6800NU. Had an MSI 6800LE before which was BS, RMA'd it but only got aprox 80% of my money back, no explanation why. I'd hate to have BS problems again. Do you know if the Leadtek 6800NU still has these problems?

Thanks. :toast:

That would be my card. My black screen is something totally different I think. I still get voltages when it black screens and I can still ping my machine, only happens when I overclock the memory too high.

If you do get it, would you be able to measure TP5 with a multimeter for me, just to see if you get a voltage reading there? I have a feeling there may be something wrong with my card :)

1 Attachment(s)

Ah ha! I was looking through all your figures and saw one that you had drawn arrows pointing at every TP point (http://img112.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img1...ge=fig82gl.jpg)

It seems either you have TP5 and TP6 mixed up, or TP5 is labelled wrongly on my card. The point I have labelled TP5 on your diagram definately reads TP5 on my card and not TP6.

Anyway, the good news is that the voltages are correct, both at 1.41/1.42v, now that I found the right spot. The bad news is...... that my memory still just won't overclock like it should. I think I will just have to give up on trying to get the memory on this catd running at the spec sheets rated stock speeds (900MHz) :slobber:

I'm beginning to think that the memory chips on my card have been labelled wrong and are actually 2.5ns chips :( Ah well!

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

That would be my card. My black screen is something totally different I think. I still get voltages when it black screens and I can still ping my machine, only happens when I overclock the memory too high.

If you do get it, would you be able to measure TP5 with a multimeter for me, just to see if you get a voltage reading there? I have a feeling there may be something wrong with my card :)

Heya mate! Sorry, about your card/mems. I'm not that into electrics, but I'll do what I can if you supply further instructions. :)

I'll prolly get the card tuesday, and since you think it's your specific card that's wrong, hopefully I won't (shouldn't you RMA?). Anyway, my previous experiences with Leadtek have been very good so far. Once again, just tell me exactly what to do and what equipment I need and I'll be happy to help out, bro! :toast:

Quote:

Originally Posted by krille

Heya mate! Sorry, about your card/mems. I'm not that into electrics, but I'll do what I can if you supply further instructions. :)

I'll prolly get the card tuesday, and since you think it's your specific card that's wrong, hopefully I won't (shouldn't you RMA?). Anyway, my previous experiences with Leadtek have been very good so far. Once again, just tell me exactly what to do and what equipment I need and I'll be happy to help out, bro! :toast:

It's actually OK, I think. It looks to me like Sika possibly got TP5 and TP6 mixed up, or TP5 is a different point no the Leadtek boards? But I got the reading I was after on a different point :) Back to square one again now lol

The black screen issue I was having definately isn't the same as the black screen other people seem to get.Their cards shut down when they black screened, mine didn't.. there was just no picture on the screen. I think it's just badly marked memory chips on my card and the issue I am having *may* happen for everyone if you push the memory too far. They're supposed to be 2.2ns chips on mine, but they're acting very very much like 2.5ns. There was no difference in overclocking from 2.7v to 2.8v (800MHz), from 2.8v to 2.95v it looks like I can manage 850MHz... but from 2.95v to 3.05v I get no improvement at all, again, just like the jump from 2.7v to 2.8v!

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

It's actually OK, I think. It looks to me like Sika possibly got TP5 and TP6 mixed up, or TP5 is a different point no the Leadtek boards? But I got the reading I was after on a different point :) Back to square one again now lol

The black screen issue I was having definately isn't the same as the black screen other people seem to get.Their cards shut down when they black screened, mine didn't.. there was just no picture on the screen. I think it's just badly marked memory chips on my card and the issue I am having *may* happen for everyone if you push the memory too far. They're supposed to be 2.2ns chips on mine, but they're acting very very much like 2.5ns. There was no difference in overclocking from 2.7v to 2.8v (800MHz), from 2.8v to 2.95v it looks like I can manage 850MHz... but from 2.95v to 3.05v I get no improvement at all, again, just like the jump from 2.7v to 2.8v!

Yeah .. those labels ARE very bad. In Fig 1 the TP5 is 'clearly' TP6 and it looks like a Leadtek-card (i.e. green). In many other cards (e.g Fig 3) label could be identified as TP5 (I'll check mine after opening case!).

Anyway, nice that you got the same voltages :)

--

Have you tested any timing tricks to get more speed ? You can find info at least in guru3d-forum:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....ht=6800+timing

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Yeah .. those labels ARE very bad. In Fig 1 the TP5 is 'clearly' TP6 and it looks like a Leadtek-card (i.e. green). In many other cards (e.g Fig 3) label could be identified as TP5 (I'll check mine after opening case!).

Anyway, nice that you got the same voltages :)

--

Have you tested any timing tricks to get more speed ? You can find info at least in guru3d-forum:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread....ht=6800+timing

I tried adjusting timings too over the past few days, made absolutely no difference at all for me! I think it's just a lost cause :) May be one day I will figure it out ( probably when there's a Geforce 9 out and my card is totally obselete :) )

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

I tried adjusting timings too over the past few days, made absolutely no difference at all for me! I think it's just a lost cause :) May be one day I will figure it out ( probably when there's a Geforce 9 out and my card is totally obselete :) )

I think you were absolutely correct with TP5 and TP6 ;) . I took a close look about those labels and it is more likely that TP6 is for memory and located at lower part of card (=AGP side). The reason I am (was) not sure is that there are holes (vias) under TP5 and TP6 labels, which makes labels unclear (in GW-card you can see only a part of those labels).

Thank you very much for this information !

--

No performance increase with any timing settings ? And you are totally stuck to 800 MHz with any voltages ? Maybe you have indeed 2.5 ns chips..

If I remember correct, you got some boost when adding a capacitor (?) That would indicate some mechanism/correlation (also in your case) between OC-capability and memory voltage (stability). Therefore, it is wierd that voltage increase does not boost OC.

Have you any experience about Vcore overclocking/voltage mod vs. memory OC ? Just wondering if the core would be a bottleneck when OC the memory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

I think you were absolutely correct with TP5 and TP6 ;) . I took a close look about those labels and it is more likely that TP6 is for memory and located at lower part of card (=AGP side). The reason I am (was) not sure is that there are holes (vias) under TP5 and TP6 labels, which makes labels unclear (in GW-card you can see only a part of those labels).

Thank you very much for this information !

--

No performance increase with any timing settings ? And you are totally stuck to 800 MHz with any voltages ? Maybe you have indeed 2.5 ns chips..

If I remember correct, you got some boost when adding a capacitor (?) That would indicate some mechanism/correlation (also in your case) between OC-capability and memory voltage (stability). Therefore, it is wierd that voltage increase does not boost OC.

Have you any experience about Vcore overclocking/voltage mod vs. memory OC ? Just wondering if the core would be a bottleneck when OC the memory.

No problem :)

No performance increase at all. Still stuck at the same speed as the default timings! I went ahead and increased the voltage to 2.9v and I can get 845MHz-850MHz on the test, but then I went to 3.05v and I was still stuck at 850MHz, timings didn't change that either! In short:

2.72v -> 2.82v = no increase
2.82v -> 2.95v = 835MHz -> 850MHz
2.95v -> 3.06v = no increase

I think I may have found somewhere I can get a nice quality capacitor, 10v, 2200uF, 105C and apparently low esr / 2.3A ripple. I'm gonna buy one of those and see if it helps.

I've also tried lowering the core to default speeds / default voltage and relocking the pipes, *just* overclocking the memory and I hit the exact same limits.

EDIT: Do you have those measurement figures yet? :)

Did the enhanced capacitor mod and it all works now :) . Thanks

P.S. I had to my capacitor in a pack of 5 so if your located in the UK and need a capacitor that works for the mod then send me an email at storm_gecko_2001@hotmail and I can post one/two to you.

So, just for the record the Leadtek 6800NU cards are *NOT* defective, your individual sample just had some bad mems, while most don't? The leadtek 6800NU is supposed to have 2.2 ns mems?

Oh, and btw, I never understood how to increase my vtt/vddr/vmem or whatever it's called the voltage to the mems on my prev MSI 6800LE, I just knew how to bump my core.

Btw, my old MSI card worked 100% fine when i literally halved the mems freq. But this you probably already knew, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by krille

So, just for the record the Leadtek 6800NU cards are *NOT* defective, your individual sample just had some bad mems, while most don't? The leadtek 6800NU is supposed to have 2.2 ns mems?

Oh, and btw, I never understood how to increase my vtt/vddr/vmem or whatever it's called the voltage to the mems on my prev MSI 6800LE, I just knew how to bump my core.

Btw, my old MSI card worked 100% fine when i literally halved the mems freq. But this you probably already knew, no?

They don't seem to suffer from the big nasty black screen, no. Just seems like the chips on my card, which are marked as 2.2ns, actually aren't 2.2ns so it doesn't overclock as high as it should do. Either that or my card has a strange fault :)

You need to do a volt mod to increase memory voltage, can't be done by a BIOS flash like the core voltage can!

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

They don't seem to suffer from the big nasty black screen, no. Just seems like the chips on my card, which are marked as 2.2ns, actually aren't 2.2ns so it doesn't overclock as high as it should do. Either that or my card has a strange fault :)

You need to do a volt mod to increase memory voltage, can't be done by a BIOS flash like the core voltage can!

Ok, cool. I'd love to do that with my card, any link/guide please? How far would it be safe to go? Is it permanent (i e, I won't have to keep doing stuff after vmem is increased), no really, I'd love to pump up them memories! :D

On a side note, do you know what would be better - stock Leadtek cooler or NV Silencer 5 or 4 or whichever for 6800 I have here laying around somewehre, thanks.

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by krille

Ok, cool. I'd love to do that with my card, any link/guide please? How far would it be safe to go? Is it permanent (i e, I won't have to keep doing stuff after vmem is increased), no really, I'd love to pump up them memories! :D

On a side note, do you know what would be better - stock Leadtek cooler or NV Silencer 5 or 4 or whichever for 6800 I have here laying around somewehre, thanks.

It's pretty easy, and yes it is permanent. From the Hynix spec sheet 2.94v is within tolerable limits, so I should think you're probably safe running 3.1v 24/7 so long as you keep the RAM cool.

The stock cooler isn't too bad, it's quiet if you unscrew the nasty grill. But I would recommend an NV5 if you're going to be increasing voltages :)

I used http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...4&page=4&pp=25 to do mine, although there's no really any "instructions" to follow as such. If you want to see pretty much exactly what I did, see attached drawn on photo.

You can use any of the red parts + ground for the memory mod. I just found the little round solder point the easiest to solder to personally :) I need to take my card out of my system in a few days to add an extra cap, see if it has any effect on my crappy memory overclock.. so if you would like a close up picture, not drawn on, of how I did it I can probably get you one. Pretty sure the drawn on diagram should be good enough though? :)

EDIT: Oh and you can ignore that 12k ohm + arrows part. I didn't draw that. That may be another way of doing it.. but I don't really know :) Looks like it to me, but... im no expert :)

krille:

There is only little information wheather Leadtek-cards (le/nu) would suffer 'black screen' etc. problems. Therefore, I think (?) that those cards are 'clean' or at least much better than e.g GW/MSI-cards

If you consider Vmem-modification, please take a look in post #1 chapter '3.5 Memory voltage modification' there is explained A LOT easier way modify Vmem .. no soldering required :rolleyes: ..

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

Did the enhanced capacitor mod and it all works now :) . Thanks

P.S. I had to my capacitor in a pack of 5 so if your located in the UK and need a capacitor that works for the mod then send me an email at storm_gecko_2001@hotmail and I can post one/two to you.

Nice to heard :) Your card is born again...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

krille: If you consider Vmem-modification, please take a look in post #1 chapter '3.5 Memory voltage modification' there is explained A LOT easier way modify Vmem .. no soldering required :rolleyes: ..

Another no solder required mod. These cards seem good for those...

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiemrboo

Another no solder required mod. These cards seem good for those...

Yep... I found that one by mistake :D (that is true!!). I was trying to identify ALL components etc. in the feedback path, and I discovered that the original Vmem mod is too complex - or at least it is not too easy way to perform due to small soldering areas. Moreover, the original mod modifies feedback voltage (=not very optimal way), and this one modifies only the reference voltage i.e. feedback is unchanged !!

[QUOTE=SikaRippa]OK. I am sure you are right, they propably do not want anybody to check they hardware except very good reason :rolleyes: But, if they would be aware of this problem (?) I wonder they would not want to sell products coming back during a few months.

--

I checked the figures of Galaxy, and it has nice cooler :D (NV 5?). So, if you do want a new card go for Galaxy..[QUOTE]

I dont beliiiiieve it!!! :slash:

After writing to them TWICE to ask them to send me a Galaxy and ill send them the money, the IDIOTS have sent me another MSi!!!!!!

here we go again.....

[QUOTE=dandaman][QUOTE=SikaRippa]OK. I am sure you are right, they propably do not want anybody to check they hardware except very good reason :rolleyes: But, if they would be aware of this problem (?) I wonder they would not want to sell products coming back during a few months.

--

I checked the figures of Galaxy, and it has nice cooler :D (NV 5?). So, if you do want a new card go for Galaxy..

Quote:

I dont beliiiiieve it!!! :slash:

After writing to them TWICE to ask them to send me a Galaxy and ill send them the money, the IDIOTS have sent me another MSi!!!!!!

here we go again.....

'They' did it again :dammit:

I know exactly the same kind of story: A BS-affected GW-card was RMA'd and it was 'kindly' asked to get an ASUS 6800le-card, but no way 'they' sent similar GW back..

--

Please, calm down .. I wonder if you could cancel a deal totally ? In Finland that could be possible when getting faulty product, at least in cases when it can be shown that product has been faulty even as a new.

--

Have you already tested your card, does it give BS right away ? If you mind, could you check those geen caps - wheather you obtained a working card ;)

well im gonna take delivery and see. it might be a BS free MSI card..... i live in hope.

it was gonna cost me nearly 150 euros more to upgrade to the Galaxy, and i cant afford that. well, its not important enough to me anyway.

there is nothing else they have in stock from Nvidia which tickles my fancy.

i just hope i dont have to send it back before the end of the week

i wont get it till wednesday

ill let u know how i get on and check the caps

I've got a Gainward 6800LE with these caps:
"4 8 470 6E" - usually no BS when new, BS after some months (MSI, GW)

Let's see how it does in a few months then :p:
The card runs at 12/6 und 390/850 (stock voltage - stock cooler)

If it gets BS, I will replace the caps

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandaman

i wont get it till wednesday

ill let u know how i get on and check the caps

It is curious that they did not change the card even if you offer 150 e ..

I understood your message

Quote:

there is nothing else they have in stock from Nvidia which tickles my fancy

.. they would offer some other 6800le/6800 ? In that case (and if you will get BS again) I would myself try to get e.g ASUS 6800le - no BS-problem ever reported !

--

Thank you (beforehad) for cap-information :) ! GW has used at least "4 7 470 6E" -caps in their RMA-cards, and I heard some days ago that this model would give BS after some months :( (the list in #1 has to be updated..I'll do it soon)

they dont have the ASUS in stock.

i decided against paying the extra Eur150 for an upgrade. its just too much money. Doom 3 already plays perfectly well, when theres no BS, on the 6800le.

i should have the card at my desk soon....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flip

I've got a Gainward 6800LE with these caps:
"4 8 470 6E" - usually no BS when new, BS after some months (MSI, GW)

Let's see how it does in a few months then :p:
The card runs at 12/6 und 390/850 (stock voltage - stock cooler)

If it gets BS, I will replace the caps

OK ! I have now quite good specs for those caps ;) (I'll post those in next update :D)

its here! well at least this time they have sent me a new one in the big box with all the games, the previous ones i got were in small boxes with only the drivers...

and the caps are...... CP136 = 46 470 6E
CP 143 = 46 470 6E

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandaman

its here! well at least this time they have sent me a new one in the big box with all the games, the previous ones i got were in small boxes with only the drivers...

and the caps are...... CP136 = 46 470 6E
CP 143 = 46 470 6E

Thank you ! Nice you got even something extra..

Caps "4 6 470 6E" are rare.. I wonder you had those with your old MSI-card, and with that card you got BS immediately (correct??).

I really hope you got better one this time !

i cant remember what caps were on the old ones. but it looks liek before i was being sent RMA'd cards cos they just came in small brown boxes

this is new. fingers crossed

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandaman

i cant remember what caps were on the old ones. but it looks liek before i was being sent RMA'd cards cos they just came in small brown boxes

this is new. fingers crossed

Neither I remember, but I checked your post no #71 ;)

IT DOESNT WORK!!!!!!!

I played Doom 3 for 20 mins and no probs, so i thought Id give Far Cry a go. It lasted about two minutes before black screening!!

any further attempts to play meant balck screening the second the game loads.

:slapass:

i cant believe it!

thats the THIRD MSI card to BS on me!

im losing the will to live.

:(

might it be my system thats messing it up? i cant believe i could get three cards that are faulty

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandaman

IT DOESNT WORK!!!!!!!

I played Doom 3 for 20 mins and no probs, so i thought Id give Far Cry a go. It lasted about two minutes before black screening!!

any further attempts to play meant balck screening the second the game loads.

:slapass:

i cant believe it!

thats the THIRD MSI card to BS on me!

im losing the will to live.

:(

might it be my system thats messing it up? i cant believe i could get three cards that are faulty

:slobber: :slobber:

Unbelivable !!!! Go to that shop and INSIST they cancel the deal right away OR give DIFFERENT model.

--

This proofed that MSI having "4 6 470 6E" is in the same cathegory than GW "4 3 470 6E" i.e. BS even if brand new. This makes sense (if something makes sense with BS) since lot numbers 3,6 have to be mean an older lot than 7,8,9 (=these are working for a while). And is likely that they have improved the capacitor manufacturing in some point - between lots 6 and 7 !?

the problem is that the original card i had is the one that came with the system. i didnt actually buy it separately. on top of that the company i bought my PC from went bust and this other company bought the brand.

i lost my 5 year warranty as a result and had to pay 60 pounds for a 2 year warranty.

so i cant get my money back. but i have asked them for a 256MB ATi Radeon X800 AGP 8X S-video card, ive had enough of nvidia.

In Germany you get your money back when they tried to repair or replace an electronic product three times without succuess.

Is it the same in America?

!!!! Document upadated to version 1.7 !!!!

Please see changelog for details, but here is a teaser:

I FINALLY FOUND INFORMATION (=DATASHEET) ABOUT THOSE GREEN CAPS !!

..thanks to my finger clicked a datasheet link by mistake :D :D

I registered especially 2 say THANK YOU!! The capacitator-mod solved all the probs i head with my XFX 6800LE (old version). BTW it runs on a 200Watt PSU in my Shuttle SN45G :+]

Quote:

Originally Posted by julianus

I registered especially 2 say THANK YOU!! The capacitator-mod solved all the probs i head with my XFX 6800LE (old version). BTW it runs on a 200Watt PSU in my Shuttle SN45G :+]

Nice that you register to give comments :)

Your case is quite interesting, since nobody before you have reported a XFX6800le that has been repaired using cad-mod.

Please, if not a big deal answer following (regular) questions so I could make the document more accurate:

- How long it took before first BS
- What labels you have at top of those green-label caps e.g. "4 8 470 6E"
- Is there any official version code in your card (I gave those version 1 & 2 numbers for XFX corresponding different capacitors used, since no data was available)

Thank you beforehand ;)

I have decided to drop the 6800 and go for an ATI by gigabyte.

GV-R80P256D

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandaman

I have decided to drop the 6800 and go for an ATI by gigabyte.

GV-R80P256D

Maybe (=sure) that is wise choice for you - after soooo many faulty NV's. It is pity that Nvidia suffers with these card, because the reason for this is poor design (manufacturing) of card NOT the GF-chips :(

Version 1.8 of the document:

- Added VERY short FAQ-list for FAST people
- 'Encahced capacitor modification' figure more clear

Hey SikaRippa

u are more than welcome for a quality :toast: in germany,Munich, too. :-)

I have the MSI 6800le card which u discribed in Figure 7.
as a "MSI6800le version 1" with the quadro cooler :confused: ^^

a few days ago i made the enhanced capaciator mod - now its no problem to run at standard clock rate. (300/700)
i used a 3300/16v capaciator cause i had those from former tests with memory capyiator mod... tp10 + gnd

i didn´t rma my card because i loved it - now it works proper and stable and i still love it - and u too :D

------------------

yesterday i tried to overclock to 400/800 ( a friend of mine did this without problems ) but then the bs came back.

Today i will try to overclock it step by step. And i will find out, at which stepping the BS comes back... do u think the capciator gives a limit to the overclocking level?
The question is: Can i overclock my card for example with a 1000/16v capaciator better than with a 3300/16V???

btw: i can unlock all pipes and vertex without faults :banana:

-------------------

at last:

SikaRippa, if u need any facts serial numbers. or else from this msi card vers. 1....
i can tell u what u want. Just ask for it.

THANKS A LOT - YOU ARE THE GOD :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by money2

Hey SikaRippa

u are more than welcome for a quality :toast: in germany,Munich, too. :-)

I have the MSI 6800le card which u discribed in Figure 7.
as a "MSI6800le version 1" with the quadro cooler :confused: ^^

a few days ago i made the enhanced capaciator mod - now its no problem to run at standard clock rate. (300/700)
i used a 3300/16v capaciator cause i had those from former tests with memory capyiator mod... tp10 + gnd

i didn´t rma my card because i loved it - now it works proper and stable and i still love it - and u too :D

------------------

yesterday i tried to overclock to 400/800 ( a friend of mine did this without problems ) but then the bs came back.

Today i will try to overclock it step by step. And i will find out, at which stepping the BS comes back... do u think the capciator gives a limit to the overclocking level?
The question is: Can i overclock my card for example with a 1000/16v capaciator better than with a 3300/16V???

btw: i can unlock all pipes and vertex without faults :banana:

-------------------

at last:

SKipaRippa, if u need any facts serial numbers. or else from this msi card vers. 1....
i can tell u what u want. Just ask for it.

THANKS A LOT - YOU ARE THE GOD :up:

Hi money2 !

Maybe I should take a trip to München during oktoberfest :toast: ..

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About capacitor sizes.. I think that it does not make big difference be having 1000 or 3300 uF capacitor, BUT the quality of the capacitor is important: having lower ESR value (resistance) gives better results.

BS will occur ALLWAYS (with these card) when a HEAVY overclocking is applied. Moreover, memory chips are unique - the overclock capability varies. There are also different memory chips available in these cards e.g 2.2 and 2.8 ns, which has huge impact to OC. IF you want to try limits of your card make the memory voltage modification (see post #1 for details). It is also VERY easy to perform and quite impressive results have been posted:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=62651

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If you mind, you could post following information about your card:

- Exact version code of your card (maybe some label, I do know MSI cards very well)
- Estimate how long it took before the black screen occured first time
- Capacitor labels for C136 and C143 (green labels, e.g "4 8 470 6E")