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Abit might go bankrupt, DFI's are fragile, hope ATI and Sapphire can deliver a great board. Im itching to upgrade, but dying DFIs are not my cup of tea. Now if the Fatality offers better ram voltages, I might just take a risk on a sinking company. Come on ATI, I have a x800xl in my sights too.
sweet specs, and really innovative looking board!
I really wasn't going to upgrade to A64 for a good few months, but...
You've sold one board here already. 4-phase power should go nicely with an 0448 SPAW.
Sign me up for the first one in the UK.
Looks good, now my decision to go DFI has been altered...def have to wait for some testing and benchmark scores though. The board looks kind of candy cane-ish, but i could live with it for a nice stable OC. Any chance of a model with no onboard video?
i wish it was more of like a blasted white, like white-blasted (sandblasted), so there would be like specs of red. thats what i thought it was when i first looked, but upon further inspection it just looks more or less white.
Don't be so quick to assume. I think that we can all agree that the board looks great, but we have yet to see any real results from this product.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnbns
deception``
Grayskull- will all the boards have the voltages you said or will be a special board for overclockers?
Has i said in the other post the sample i made a review only have 1,45 v-core, and no volts for the ram.
If the retail boards will have more options i will make a correction in my review.
http://www.oc-zone.com/files/reviews/tul200p/bios3.jpg
True we should not jump to conclusions. Remember whats happening with DFIs? There are stickies on how to set up the ultimate DFI NF4 WAAAAAAY before the board showed up. Nothing against DFI. I still hope they resolve their quality issues so there will be some nice competition between the two boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by deception``
looks like im selling my Ultra-d if this board runs as good as it looks
Aye
One question: Did God make this board? :slobber:
Seriously though, when will these be available?
Can I get something at least half as cool in mATX form factor? :worship: I know I am in the minority, but... (please?)
No joke! :up: That color scheme is cherry. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker
That's a Tul board and looks totally different. Sapphire may make both brands, but it looks like that is the reason they are distinguishing the brands. "Tul", rhymes with "dull" and is probably going to be aimed more at OEMs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJRL
*changes pants* :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:
i found my next mobo
Here comes that damn upgrade itch again... man that looks very nice. Hope it performs well. :toast:
If this is a jab at my thread (which simply aimed to be a guide for individuals as they piece together a system), then you are getting off the mark. And as far as DFI: they have fewer quality issues than one might think. Yes, there are a number of enthusiasts that have run into problems, but this is not representative of the majority. On the contrary; you'll find that, with most things, individuals are more vocal about a product when they are disastisfied more than anything. So you basing your opinions on the negative threads amongst the forums only provides you with a one-sided (albeit very audible) opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
Believe it or not, there are many individuals that are satisfied with their DFI NF4 motherboards. Hell, even the MSI boards have been known to die occassionally, but they still remain a very successful product.
I never said that ATI/Sapphire could never release a desirable product. Rather, I simply stated that more information is needed to draw any sort of conclusions. At least with the DFI NF4 boards people had other products from DFI (such as the NF3 UT, LP B Ultra B, and Intel DFI boards) that they could use as proof of their committment to the enthusiast.
deception``
Looks good (except for the colour scheme), but considering the last launches from ATI, it will be A LONG LONG LONG time before this is available...
I think by the time this comes out, it will be too late... announcements for new chipsets based on the next generation DDR (DD2 or DDR3) will occurr and will be available within the year... that's my prediction (assuming it comes out by next fall in mass retail or something...
Bah, Only If Your an Intel user, AMD won't be supporting DDR2 until It has a New memory controller for It's cpus and that will mean a new cpu socket. It may happen in 2006, But no earlier as DDR is not even as fast as the current AMD A64/FX/Opteron memory controllers that are available so far. K8s rule and Intel can't help but be frightened by these chips and their superior technology as they are getting to be better and better as time goes on. Resistance is futile Micronians. :) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverXP
As numerous othes have already asked.... WHEN will this mobo be available to the public!!?? Anandtech had their "review" of the sample board the first week on November...that was over 4 months ago.
Also, I don't think in a million years that motherboard will come out with the white/red color scheme nor do I think the 6"x8" gaudy ATi logo will be on the back of it either. This was probably just a one-off done for shows, much like GM and Ford do with some of their vehicles.
As long as the specs are there, and we can get one without integrated video, there are going to be a LOT of used DFI nF4 Ultra's on Ebay in a couple of months!!! :D
Brian
LOL...I change mobos about as frequently as a change my underwear. And I am loyal to no brand. If this ATI mobo works great, I'll use it. If not, I won't.
As far as someone mentioning Abit's financial health and DFI's being "fragile" that's just bunk. Abit chose not to report some financial information and received a regulatory notice and some idiot at the Inquirer interpretted the story wrong. Abit just came of one of thier best years financially. Not to mention that they do a ton of white box stuff that people never talk about.
As far as DFI, for every problem report there are a dozen happy users. The trouble reports are high because practically everyone is running one.
As far as I see it, the battle will be between DFI and ATI on this one. Abit, although I have no concern about them financially, I do thnk they have slipped. They have resorted to plastic gimmicks for the kiddies instead of true enthusiast features. The DFI NF4 is currently the cutting edge in terms of voltage options and the ability to handle heavy duty OCing. This new ATI mobo could be a great challenger.
That said, I'll reserve my final judgement when I put one through its paces with my own two hands.
red&white mobo ..... hmmm..... should I palce it in my kitchen? :p:
I hope ATI stick to their specs and the final product will be the best OCing board which will make all of us very happy. :)
Red/Black would of been sexier imo. Not something I really care about though.
There is no onboard video. ATi makes two verisions of their chipset (at least) and only one has integrated video.Quote:
ditch the onboard video and ill take one
That board is beautiful :banana4:
Go back and look at the pics.... that board has ONBOARD video.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnbns
2 versions maybe, we will have to wait and see..... but this one shows video on board.
Komplett here in Sweden has listed 2 Sapphire mobo´s based on ATI Xpress 200.
One with onboard video and one without.
The one with onboard video seems to be released pretty soon, within 14 day´s.
The one without onboard video are expected 1 May.
Note that ETA are Kompletts and can be changed but it seems they are not that far away :)
*wipes chin* *puts on fresh clothes*
well, now that i finished that...
HOLY CRAP!!!
I personally like the color scheme; its like the DFI schemes in that its bold (except this is bolder; i've never even seen white PCB)
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by deception``
I wouldn't mind having onboard video. It can come in handy if you kill a card and don't have immediate access to another one.
I really dont know much about Abits financial information, so I won't comment on it anymore. Abit is resorting to plasticky tricks, ram cant possibly that get hot with only 2.8v :rolleyes: Abit has become the Toyota of motherboards: high quality, high content, low risk products. I'm very anxious to see the new ATI boards in action, especially when it comes out with its own "SLI." Nvidia vs ATI, VIA = bye bye.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzcpa
Yeah that's true, It also makes It easier for someone to upgrade from a slower cpu platform, Like an XP-M.Quote:
Originally Posted by conrad.maranan
yeah i've done that a couple times... i crushed my 9600 a while back with a a XP 2200+ heatsink and was forced to use some wretched PCI video card for a few weeks...
Whoops, I can't read. I guess it does have onboard video. :)
If it's cheaper for the one without onboard vid, that's what I'll get.
Woawww, if the boards are really the ones we hope they are, then the price is incredible :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Caper
Only a MSI K8T NEO2 FIR is cheaper, otherwise, the two Sapphire are the cheapest of all 939 boards.
Smells like :banana4:
edit:
link added: http://www.komplett.se/k/kl.asp?bn=10482
That´s what confusing me...can they be this cheap??
If they are... :banana:
Proper link:
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=307851&cks=PRL
$ 126
Incredibly beautiful board, but how do those blocks perform? I guess those blocks costs half of the board's price, just because they look cool. IMHO too early to do judgement yet :)
I'm having a hard time believing it but i'd like for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caper
wow, if they are gonna be that cheap, sign me up for two!
Waiting for two gigs of TCCD, i was scaring myself thinking the same and feelin' a little crazy for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by babalouj
That's what XS is cool for, so many peeps as crazy as i am or MUCH MUCH more that i can feel normal :hehe:
Man, I'm thinking of selling my MSI Neo 4 for this one :p. 3 water blocks? I'll use two with a regular water cooling setup, and put my chiller on the third block. Course I might swap it with a block that would be less likely to crack at sub zero.
Anyways, it looks to me like ATI is goin for the gusto. >=) Making a bang into the market, then going for mainstream. :p It worked in Graphics.....
The board available for pre-sale could be this one:
http://www.ocworkbench.com/ocwb/ulti...49.html#000000
Yeah, it would make more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluesgnr
Yes it would...but Komplett specifies SATA.
Can ya see SATA connectors on the Sapphire boards at ocworkbench?
Maybe just me beeing blind?
Seems like so by the IDE connectors, what d'ya think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Caper
Sticky this, and is Saphire was smart they would send samples to OPP, Fugger, OPB, and Macci
Me beeing blind :)Quote:
Originally Posted by LowRun
Seems like SATA connectors.
agreed^^^Quote:
Sticky this, and is Saphire was smart they would send samples to OPP, Fugger, OPB, and Macci
this is got to be the best looking board i have seen hope they keep the specs!!!!!!!!!
now all ati needs to do is employ chilly1 to start making custom ati cascades
Finally someone else whos pickin up what I'm puttin down. That's what I said on like...page 1....these days people are pumping out more bells and whistles than functionality...Quote:
Don't be so quick to assume. I think that we can all agree that the board looks great, but we have yet to see any real results from this product.
deception``
IMO that Fatal1ty board is all looks with not so much in the performance section. Dude jonathan is just trying to market his name with a board that doesn't even perform well enough to justify the extra cost.
I'm not a fan of ATI's video cards except for the 9xxx vs the FX series, but a motherboard is a whole new issue and if it lives up to good quality, high overclocks, and all that good stuff then I will definitely pick one up when I crossover to AMD64...however...much like these other people..I would like to see onboard video tossed out..
For a 'top OC'ers board' onboard video shouldn't even be remotely considered...so that makes me wonder to some degree how much this board will be able to hang under the knife.
EDIT: I will say though, I LOVE the fact that they put the NB in a good position so I could put on my northpole NB cooler from microcool. That thing is relatively tall, and with the NB where it is, I won't have to worry about a graphics card hitting it! :D So that's awesome.
Don't much like where the 4pin power is located though at the top of the board though..of course this is just personal pref, but I like the 4pin and the ATX power connector to be near each other :p:
.. tobad i don't have a clear case. Wish OPP would get one to test on some phase.
I'm curious... if the waterblock were to break/leak, would they cover the board under warranty? If they're going to sell the waterblocks as an option on the board, I think they should. Don't you?
Good point. What if it fried your board and your R520 :p:Quote:
I'm curious... if the waterblock were to break/leak, would they cover the board under warranty? If they're going to sell the waterblocks as an option on the board, I think they should. Don't you?
I think they'll sell the board only. Waterblocks are on that pic for show only (to show that nb blocks can be fitted into the mosfets).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubius
I personally love the colour. :p:
amazing board! :slobber:
Agreed :slobber:
If only they had more PCI-Express channels it would be perfect. This is what I want, 2 16x PCIe slots, 3 4x PCIe slots, 6 1x PCIe channels for mobo components, and no regular PCI. So that's 50 total PCIe channels, with 25GB/s aggreate bandwidth. Of course only HyperTransport 3 would supply a large enough FSB to service all that bandwidth, but that's just a matter of time. Also, considering that ATI is already demoing their SLI solution under NDA at CeBit, I'm surprised this doesn't have 2 16x PCIe slots. Oh well, I'm not upgrading till the rivision E chips start coming out, so hopefully something will come out that's PCIe only.
I know red and white are ATI's colors, but like other members mentioned, I think a black and red board would look freakin awesome.
I didnt notice the logo. When did DD start using the 2 DD's on their blocks? I havent purchased a block from them since the maz4 gpu came out.Quote:
Originally Posted by I(illa Bee
well its great on paper.......
and thats enough to make me doubt my DFI nf4 purchase :slobber:
Yes please! :D
the dfi nf4 never stood a chance once i heard of this board. im just wondering dothan vs. venice, or to get turion
Venice, of course. Getting a Dothan will mean you can't use this mobo. :stick: :D
Purely price/performance I don't think Venice can be beat.
The DFI had a great chance! I'm using this board for the next 2-3 months before the ATI comes out, and with that a X800XL :)Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
i dont like the layout of the dfi, way too cramped. in europe its probly not a problem, but in summer here you can get pockets of 50c air floating around in your case, and thats with 1 gpu.
@mcnbns: u know that i meant the dothan mobo i asked ati to build
Yeah rigth...nice to see people come up with such "conclusions" when they dont even have real solid numbers, only specs...Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
Plus the fact that DFI already has an offer and it will take long time (looking at prior lauches) before something like this comes up...
Hey reject 35 degrees today?
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudzer
Although this ATI mobo looks great in theory, and I do look forward to seeing what it can really do when, and IF, it arrives, the DFI is here now and is still the reigning king of AMD mobos.
I think its a wee bit early to announce a new champion that doesn't even exist yet :rolleyes:
It's the reigning king of motherboards, but I agree with reject that it isnt ideal - but it's darn close, I love the DRAM placement, others disagree. With water-cooling the hot air pockets are not such an issue, a tripple radiator with 120mm fans does the trick :)
I want AMR. Dual X800XLs should provide for goood fun
Looks awesome, has incredible layout, and all the voltages we need. The only immediate problem I see is lack of native SATA2.
I suppose my questions are:
1. Can it clock as advertised?
2. At X clocks can it perform as well or beyond that of a NF4? Last thing we need is a board that clocks like no other but still performs worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoom314
spraypaint yer case shiny black on the inside et voila
Maybe it's just a custom PCB and layout colors for the showoff. It is very possible that the final board will be based on a black PCB :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
The blocks wll be made available from DD specically for this application not sold with the board, but there will be blocks made available for it . read :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ackbar
I did read it, but the astute reader would notice that as you quoted, the OP said that these waterblocks would "be made available" but not which company would actually be selling them. If the mobo maker were to make it available through them (obviously made by DD though), then I see no reason why they shouldn't extend the warranty to cover any damage due to a product they offer as an add-on.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3FFeX
Of course, if DD sold the waterblocks directly then I see no reason for them to extend the warranty. I'm not sure this would have to be the case though, since the OP made no mention of such. Futhermore, DD would stand to benefit more from making waterblocks that fit across multiple applications unless they were specifically contracted to make custom waterblocks that were to only fit certain applications. Since we were told these are made "specifically for this application", one can consider that that means that we are looking at a product that was contracted to be made.
Maybe you should learn to read a little better yourself as there is no mention of the seller (although the maker has been mentioned). I'll give you a good example of this scenario related to cars. You can go out and add a supercharger to your car, but it'll void the engine warranty and if you were to break something you'd be on your own. Some car manufacturer's have contracted companies (for example Toyota has such a division called TRD) to make superchargers for their cars to meet strict specifications. Once they have done so, they won't sell the supercharger with the car from the factory, but offer it as an option you can buy off them aftermarket. Now in the case of Toyota, as long as you don't modify your TRD supercharger, your warranty still applies (directly stated in the information that Toyota gives you with the part). So, as you can see, the difference between lies in who is selling the part.
Before you start telling people that they should read, maybe you should think beyond the nearsightedness of your argument. :stick:
I don't think they should warrant anything against leaks other than if the block itself leaks somewhere (due to a defect or something). Most of the time it's user error and Dangerden/Sapphire/whoever shouldn't be held accountable for n00bs that don't know how to water cool.
Still, it would be next to impossible for whoever it was that sold the block to prove that it was the user, so the seller would end up footing the bill.
The Toyota analogy is good, but it isn't generally the car owner that's installing the supercharger, I would guess. Toyota knows exactly what's been done to the car before they give the customer a warranty. The water block vendor doesn't know how good the installation of its product on the motherboard will be.
This is a very foolish statement. How are you going to judge this board by pictures and specs alone? Honestly you are doing exactly what any marketing firm would want you to do: falling for the hype and some aesthetics. Instead of basing your decisions soley on how something looks, why don't you wait for the real thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
deception``
Did you miss the specs at the first page? Of course no one knows how this will really perform, but if it's anything close to its specs it should kick some royal ass. That's all people are trying to say.Quote:
basing your decisions soley on how something looks...
I did notice the specs on the first page. However, all non-final specs are always subject to change (as we already know). To be honest, I am very much intrigued by this board, but only a fool would draw a clear conclusion without actual results to go by.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnbns
deception``
That's true, I would agree that only leaks from the waterblock should be warrantied. You're right that it would be difficult to figure out who was at fault, but then they should ask that all waterblocks be sent in with the mobo then check for leakage. If none is found, then obviously replacement of the mobo under warranty would not be justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnbns
That's true, Toyota in fact prefers that you get the supercharger installed at the dealership. But they also prefer that you do all your service at the dealership as well. AFAIK according to US law for cars, the manufacturer can not void the warranty on account of someone else doing the installation/service alone. ie)If you get documentable proof that you always get your oil changed at 3000 miles but not by Toyota, they can not just void your warranty if your engine is sludged just because you didn't get the oil changed by them. Now if it were to be found that you used really poor quality oil that led to this, sure there's no reason they can't void your warranty. As long as no obvious modification and no negligance has been found on the part of the user, a car's warranty can not be legally voided. They might try to do so anyways...
Now if the mobo manufacturer specifically puts on their warranty:
"Although we have created a custom WB for this application and tested it, if it were to leak we won't cover it." Then you're out of luck, and that's the type of thing I was originally comtemplating in my post. Either way, my point was that if DD sells the block, then the issue is clearer since DD would probably not warrantee a mobo they did not make nor would the mobo maker against an aftermarket add-on that they are not directly selling. If the mobo maker offers the block, they could still opt to not warranty it (ie. offer it as a "at your risk" component, but doing so would leave some people confused about buying something specifically made for the mobo and purchased through the mobo maker that wouldn't be directly supported) but that would be at their discretion of course. Again, I'm not trying to say that they would be FORCED to warranty against leaks, but that they could do so if they wanted to. I am simply ASKING if they would, but the person I was posting in reply to was stating that it was OBVIOUS that it shouldn't be due to an argument that was not necessarily based on truth.
Clearly it isn't as obvious as he/she thought if he/she would consider all the possibilities. :banana4:
I just can't wait to see how the power clockers can abuse this baby!!! I just bought most of the parts for a 754 build but eventually we all gotta go PCIe sometime and this already looks like the board to play with. They used alot of the suggestions the people here offered up and if the quality is there...well this thing has the potential to take over the enthusiast market for AMDs
That is one Xtreme motherboard! :slobber: Thank you for listening to us! :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
I hope there will be an AMR version too :D And I hope there will be more mounting holes around the cpu area. I wonder if that TDX thingie is as good as my antarctica, or if there are a point in replacing it with another waterblock at all. I wonder what those pinheaders and jumpers near the Sapphire brand does. I also wonder what the dimensions on those nipples are. As the motherboard is standard ATX, someone cold measure it out of the picture if they wanted.. (someone do it! :)) I hope your motherboard drivers will be good and intensively testet. I guess this is the board where you will use the also dicussed overclocking software. I hope this will be up to the task as well in every way.
It looks like a graphics card might conflict with the memory tho. All those waterblocks will defenitely heat some water. And coupled with a waterblock on a heavy overclocked and voltmodded X800 card, this loop will recuire some serious cooling! Looks like my dual heatercore will come to its right. Although I'm really thinking two separate loops will be needed for optimal cpu and gpu overclocking. I really hope the mosfets and the NB can be cooled passively, also under heavy overclocking. (like my P4C800..) Because new hw should be more effective, right?
I wonder what will prove better.. this and a rev E, or a Pentium M adapter ;)
After all, switching to pci-e will be godamn expensive.
As you can see, there is a lot of hoping :p: As the others have said, you still have a lot to proove to us.
I wish you good luck! :toast:
The more I look at this motherboard and what not the more I think this is My next upgrade for zoom1, I'll still need a psu, cpu, water cooling and vapochill LS for the cpu, But It should do just fine with an FX-57 cpu. :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:
MSI Radeon Xpress 200Quote:
Originally Posted by WiCKeD
Hopefully this will be out come summer.
And how do I get those wicked DD waterblocks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
Ok, 1st - are the A56 and A58 a DEAD product now? This link shows two Sapphire boards and they are NOT this board? Anyone know what the hell is going on? They've had the A56 and A58 announced for quite awhile now and still no product pages?
2nd - Sapphire now has 3 announced ATI Radeon Xpress boards showing and what is this mobo model?
3rd. Is ATI going to be marketing the same mobo's under different companies like Powercolor, Sapphire etc? Hehe - this ought to be fun keeping up with the right BIOS. I know my Connect3D X850 XT PE is the same as 2 or 3 other brands, Asus being one of them. I for one could use a little less cross company marketing to stop my head from spinning around and around so much.
Socket 939 K8T890 , nForce4, SiS 756, Radeon Xpress 200 Next Gen Motherboard Pricing and Availability List
Well, red is usually not one of my favourite but i must admit i just like the look of the mobo, so here we go for another pic, aircooling this time: http://www.clubic.com/t/screenshot121448.html
Seeing that, It might be possible for an XP-120 to fit there instead. That's cause the XP-120 is within AMDs specs for heatsinks and I like Its performance as I have one on zoom2 already, As long as the Caps aren't too tall that is. Oh and It looks better in the Clubic picture than It does in the Cebit photo, Just more subdued. Oh and I've fired off an email to Thermalright about this, They may not have an answer Yet, Unless they've had a sample board to work with already that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowRun
Another pic of this board can be seen here:
http://www.forumdeluxx.de/gallery/sh...3288&password=
Go to CEBIT Day 2 -> Page 12. I didn't post a direct link so people will see they have a bunch of great pics from CEBIT. :D
just put waterblock... :banana:Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
good lord this board is so nice. Props to Sapphire and ATi!
I'll pass on the dangerden blocks, g5 will be going on there with air cooling for the mosfets and NB, SB. Hopefully this board isn't all show and no go. Makes you wonder if DFI will be making this board.... heh. I could see Oscar Wu moonlighting to write a bios for ati, hehe. Judging from prelim reviews of the sample though, looks like theres a very good chance this will be THEE board.
sign me up! ill try one out!
Yes can't wait to see some production benchmarks
I said something half as cool. As an overclocker, that board doesn't even rate. :down:Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraxas
I think This will be a part of my next upgrade. I'm now sitting on a DFI ut Lanparty, amd64 3400+ DTR and ocz TCCD... And i just cant live with this mobo anymore.. It's so unstable, and only single channel... :( So i first had my eyes on MSI s939 SLI, but this one from ATi just got my juices flowing here:)
Hope it will be out before June this year... Would be rally nice with this mobo, a64 4200+ and a r520 together with my pair of tccd's....
*dreaming*
heres some pics ive found searching around the web for more info .
Nice pics, Although on the 3rd one I could only read ATi and the rest is blurry, Possibly needed a better camera or just adjust the one You've got if possible that is. Was that 3rd one of the Northbridge or the Southbridge? :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:Quote:
Originally Posted by 3FFeX
NB-- caps to the right, matching thermal pad tear off, only one with a heatsink removed, and we've seen the SB before :PQuote:
Originally Posted by zoom314
Thanks Dips.Quote:
Originally Posted by dippyskoodlez
if it preforms as good as it should (according to paper) hello one of those when i next upgrade :D
how come hte ATI reps are so quiet now? am i mistaken or they havent posted for a while?
i bet there Busy, the ati show & new products..Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
and they probably dont browse the forums on weekends, as its probably their "time off" ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissolved