Guide To WaterCooling and Leak Testing - ALL New WaterCooler's Read Before Posting!

zabomb, as bloody pointed out, you are just not reading the information correctly.

head pressure of the pump, and the system pressure are two entirely different things.

I said 100CFM fans.. not 100CFM through the rad.. If you can get 100CFM through a heatercore.. well more power to you.. but if you did you would need one seriously powerful axial fan or a good blower fan.

but in the same regards, the HE series rads are very airflow restrictive.. I dont remmeber the exact number, but the FPI is in the 20's when I measured Noldor's 120.3.

In my experience I have been able to get a bit more performance out of the 2-199 than the BIX, but its not a huge difference.

for moonlights sake, I will do a comparative test between the two..

i really wished i came across this guide when i was starting.

in terms of element (gpu block, cpu block, radiator(s), pump, etc.) placement i see from the above that maxx recommends Pump>Radiator>CPU>GPU(if implemented)>NB(if implemented)>Reservoir where the person in the dangerden instructional videos says he always goes pump to inlet of TDX. So i'm curious:

1. is this just TDX specific?
2. why?
3. does placement of elements in the loop determine the quality of cooling for that element, and if so how would ascertain how to reach the maximum cooling for a given setup? (WLOG: is this really determined by the shortest run of tubing?)

The above questions presume no 90 degree turns and the loop includes a T-line instead of a reservoir.

1. The TDX is not specific and it does NOT matter for the TDX or any other block wether it is pump - rad - block or pump - block - rad. The slight performance winner is pump - rad -block merely becasue the heat of the pump is disipated by the rad before it gets to the waterblock. So in short, the way DD suggets will hurt u by .01C or something really rediculously small.

2. Answered by #1

3. placement and tubing lenght are the only variables for a given loop at a given temp and given heat load.. plain and simple.

THis is great!!!! I had my system planned out in my head BEFORE I read through this entire post!!! And I was actually pretty darn close to the recommendations listed through out it!!!!Only thing I have a question about now is where am I going to come up with the $$$$$ to pay for it all!!!...lol...oh well time to sell more stocks I guess...lolol...But I do have one question concerning the reservoir/fill tube topic. DD has a fillport-reservoir that is used in a "T-Line" configuration ( http://www.dangerdenstore.com/files/...ill_system.jpg )isn't this defeating the purpose of a reservoir in the first place? since there is no return line to it? Or is this really just a "modified fill tube"???? Another question would this kind of reservoir make it "easier" to bleed the cooling system of trapped fiendish air pockets???? And thanks for the original post/guide VERY helpful in making my final component choices!!!!!

The "res" in that picture isnt really a res(as normally used in a WC'ing system).. im not sure what to call it.. Totaly useless if u ask me.

I brought a couple bottles of "whitewine vinegar", closest thing I could find to white vinegar. No store seems to have just white vinegar so I guess it's the same? When I've cleaned everything according to this guide I'll use alphacools Cleaning agent unless anyone has any good reason why I shouldn't use it?

I also got a filter but they didn't have any finer filter than 20 micron but I think it should be enough?

20 microns should be enough.. the 5 micron filter I got was just to be extra paranoid.

that stuff looks really good.. almost looks like CLR.. kinda expensive for 50ml though..

I do suggest a good run of distilled water after you use that cleaning agent, as I would suggest with ANY cleaning agent.. water is really the only thing u want flowing through the loop if at all possible (assuming a non mixed metal environment)

whitewine vinegar... never heard of such a thing so I cannot comment.

White wine vinegar IS white vinegar guys...

That is what we mean by white vinegar, white wine vinegar :D

According to a dictionary vinegar is "ätticka" in swedish so I brought a couple bottles of that today.

thanks ppk... useful info there.

Eccellent guide :)
I'm going back to check for updates from time to time.

The radiators with flat tubes are?
PA, BIP, MCP?

All rads from thermochill, hwlabs, coolingworks, and swiftech are flat tubes. That is to say their current rads are. swiftech had some old rads that didnt have flat tubes IIRC.

I update it on a fairly regular basis as I learn new things and/or repeatedly get asked a question.. The repeated question obvsiously ends up in the guide so that I dont have to parrot myself.

any suggestions on cleaning tubing b4 installation?

Personally I dont clean the tubing as its meant for food products and therefore needs to be REALLY clean before it gets to you..

BUT if you want to clean it just run some distilled water through it.

hi, i´m on my setting up water-cooling, but there´s one small problem

like MaxxxRacer mentioned, the best loop order would be reservoir>pump>rad>block>reservoir ... which seems logical

but to keep my hoses of the cooling sys as short as possible, the loop would be: reservoir>pump>cpu block>rad>reservoir
the reservoir and radiator are outside of the case (not enough room in tsunami case)

and question is: how much performance would i lose by doing that?

components:

watercool heatkiller 2.5 block
alphacool ap910 pump
black ice pro III rad
alphacool coolplex 25 reservoir
1/4" fittings... OD10mm/ID8mm hoses

almost none.. just however much the pump heats the water. it will be less than .1C assuming 3LPM (im assuming u know litres and not gallons) and less than 20watt heat dump from the pump.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ppkstat

White wine vinegar IS white vinegar guys...

That is what we mean by white vinegar, white wine vinegar :D

---

It's not.

Quote:

---

So-called "white vinegar" (actually clear) can be made by oxidating a distilled alcohol. Alternatively, it may be nothing more than a solution of acetic acid in water. It is used for culinary as well as cleaning purposes.

---

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar#White

soo can i use white vine?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

The "res" in that picture isnt really a res(as normally used in a WC'ing system).. im not sure what to call it.. Totaly useless if u ask me.

---

just for lazy people who doesnt want to refill that often!

More like for people who manage to go for more than 3 month without pulling their loop apart... my t-line is usually 3/4 full when i rebuild...

so shorter tubing means better cooling...because water is cooled in shorter time???

what lengths cause cooling issue...does a 3foot overall tubing loop do worse than say 5 ft..using below

P180
PA160
D5/MCP655
storm rev 2
mcw60
reservoir

no, because tubing causes restriction

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by creidiki

no, because tubing causes restriction

---

Ok..restriction=resistance???...my physics sucks been too long..

so shortest loop possible is best so long a no kinks etc

restriction, resistance... the correct term is pressure drop, actually...

yup, shortest loop always wins.

Hmm..this may be a little issue in my P180 and the recommend loop by mad mikee

Res-->pump-->lower inlet on rad--> upper out let on rad--> storm rev 2 cpu block-->mcw 60 gpu block--> res

res will be in a 5.25 bay

not sure but in my mind I figure 3-5ft of tubing total???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eXa

soo can i use white vine?

---

Any vinegar will do, as will lemon juice. You're just after the acid in it. As long as you rinse it out thouroughly of course.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Butcher_

Any vinegar will do, as will lemon juice. You're just after the acid in it. As long as you rinse it out thouroughly of course.

---

as long its not hydrochloric acid im pretty sure its fine. Obvisouly I dont know all the acids, but HCl is the one that I know will eat radiators to hell, along with alot of other things including your skin.

Any acid will eat a radiator, given enough time. Obviously pouring battery acid in there will trash it somewhat faster than lemon juice or vinegar.

I've had an old maze4 with copper top and epoxied barbs in a vineger bath for about a month now. Today I decided to take a look, the vinegar had eaten the nickelplating on the barbs but the rest looked just like it did after five hours. There was a green/blue layer on the bottom of the bowl.

Butcher, its completely dependent on the acid.

like HCL atually repairs dammage to Copper while eating zinc and lead like there is no tommorow.

As long as you find an Acid that is safe with copper, zinc, lead, and silver (im pretty sure thats the important chemicals in the solder) then you can leave it in there for long periods of time with no dammage.

Interesting to know that Acetic acid goes after nickel.

Don't think HCl repairs copper - where would the new copper come from? :p
You're right that it won't eat it away though. Ironically battery acid is probably OK on copper also. :p

Generally though, leaving acids in metal containers is a good way to kill the metal container. ;)

How important is it to take apart my storm rev2 and mcw 60 blocks..I am afraid I will never get them as tightly together as they are brand new...

Used canned air and blew air through them...I will be flushing them out of course....

Butcher, with oxidiation of copper, the electrons get stripped from the surface of the copper, leaving the black tarnish. HCL replaces the missing electrons, thus repairing the Copper.

Of course, the article I read could have been written by a total crackpot considering this IS the internet.

But it does explain why acids, especially HCL, seem to clean HCL without doing it ANY harm or etching.


canned air probalby isnt the greatest idea considering it ISNT air.. its usually some non CFC refrigerant that is cheap and doesnt condense at too low of a temp. (usually -24.99C)

Usually Swiftech bocks are cleaned well, but there are always ones taht slip through so I would suggest you clean them. Retightening them is not a real concern, especially considering Swiftech supplys the proper tools to loosten and tighten the screws of both waterblocks.

OK..I will not blow any more canned air..never considered the refrigerant factor..duh:stick:

Maxxracer...would you suggest using teflon tape on the storm and mcw 60 barbs to avoid a leak?

you can if your paranoid, but the O-ring seal on the storm and mcw60 rocks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

you can if your paranoid, but the O-ring seal on the storm and mcw60 rocks.

---

not paranoid just found Asolute 0 thread on how the barb loosened and he had a bad leak...saw other people with issues ..so I asked a "guru"..

I am too ignorant on this too know better

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nealh

not paranoid just found Asolute 0 thread on how the barb loosened and he had a bad leak...saw other people with issues ..so I asked a "guru"..

I am too ignorant on this too know better

---

Here's one of them... :p:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Butcher, with oxidiation of copper, the electrons get stripped from the surface of the copper, leaving the black tarnish. HCL replaces the missing electrons, thus repairing the Copper.

---

Ah yes I see what you mean - yes, putting tarnished copper in HCl will cause the H+ ions to combine with oxygen in the copper oxide (tarnish) creating water and copper - effectively removing the oxide and restoring the surface of the copper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Butcher_

Ah yes I see what you mean - yes, putting tarnished copper in HCl will cause the H+ ions to combine with oxygen in the copper oxide (tarnish) creating water and copper - effectively removing the oxide and restoring the surface of the copper.

---

Chemistry is the R0xorz


nealh: if you tighten the crap out of the barb (so that the flange is level with the top of the waterblock) it wont loosten up. Not unless you do some freaky things when your bleeding the system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Chemistry is the R0xorz


nealh: if you tighten the crap out of the barb (so that the flange is level with the top of the waterblock) it wont loosten up. Not unless you do some freaky things when your bleeding the system.

---

thank you kindly

BTW what is the best way to do things..barb to block then tubing???

tubing to barb then barb tubing to block???

barb to block then tubing.

if you do it the ohter way around you will end up twisting the carp out of the tubing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

barb to block then tubing.

if you do it the ohter way around you will end up twisting the carp out of the tubing.

---

should then mount block after putting the tubing on then...or is that obvious

BTW thanKs Maxxracer your help and tutorial is awesome..on my third soak of rad...first was 3-4 hrs...last one was 6 hrsand alot of white crap came out...so I figure another vinegar soak is needed

yes, mount the block after tuing.

What you should do is mount the block first and then measure out the tubing so it fits correctly. Then pull off the waterbocks and put the tubing on.

thank you hopeful by tomorow I will be leak testing

just wanted to mention I received my storm water block today. I found in the installation instructions that swiftech doesn't recommend the use of dyes, or uv additives. They block the nozzles. Does this hold true with all of the higher restriction blocks?

All of the ones with nozzles or other high-turbulence plates/jets/etc... the extreme pressure changes and turbulence makes chemicals like dyes and stuff separate and gunk up your loop... itll do the same to zerex/hydryx/blah if you put too much.

any block that uses jets or small openings like the Storm will suffer the same fate when u use dyes or UV additives.

...about cleaning the rad...

how strong vinegar should be used?

i´m cleaning with a 5% vinegar (made from 30%) right now... is it alright or still not strong enough?

if you ahve 30% vinegar use that... it will just take alot less time to clean out the rad. just dont leave it in too long as the acid might start attacking the tin.

Which material are the flattubes inside BIX/BIP/GT radiators made off? Brass?

yes. brass. as with pretty much every radiator.

why not copper?

Maxx i am on my second clean of my BIX using 6% acidity (white wine vinegar) im thinking of leaving it overnight till about 9am ( 9 hours from now) is that too long for a soak? I dont want my rad leaking because the acid has eaten the solder :p:

thanks :D

c_d

It'll be fine.

Feel free to add a couple of drops of soap too, depending on what you're trying to clean out.

cool_dude, the acidity is so low its not of much concern.. If you repeated the cleaning process over and over again for a few months it might develop a leak, but not from a day or two.

Just dont throw HCl in there.. That will eat the solder faster than you can say "rumplestilksen"

from the online WC store thread...

Quote:

---

Pan Head Phillips Sheet Metal Screw, Black, #6 Size, 1-1/4"----90935A155 - For mounting 25mm thick fans to HWlabs, Thermochill, Swiftech and Coolingworks Radiators

---

Just wondering, are these screws the same as 6/32 screws? If using 120x38 fans, I suppose you can just move up to 1-1/2" length?

Quote:

---

So here is a general rule to follow. Pump>Radiator>CPU>GPU(if implemented)>NB(if implemented)>Reservoir. This is the most efficient way of setting up your system.

---

refer to this pic,
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/L.../images/41.jpg

how come the way they mention is different from what you recommend ?

which one is more better ?
anyone care to enlight me ?
im still new in WC ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kilyin

Just wondering, are these screws the same as 6/32 screws? If using 120x38 fans, I suppose you can just move up to 1-1/2" length?

---

Not exactly. 6/32 are machine screws and the #6 screws are self tapping sheet metal screws. Machine screws need to scew into threaded metal to work correctly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ahpaul82

how come the way they mention is different from what you recommend ?

which one is more better ?
anyone care to enlight me ?
im still new in WC ;)

---

As I said in the guide, the best way is to have the tubing the shortest. but lets say the tubing is the same lenght wether its like the Tt picture or how I said it is best.

In this case it would be my way that would give the SLIGHT performance gain. The reason for this is that the pump introduces heat into the system and if you have the pump between the radiator and waterblock this heat is NOT disipated. For pumps like the AQZ50Z, and DDC, this is not an issue as the heat input varries between 5-10watts. But for hotter pumps like the MD20's and D5's the gain will be slightly more noticable because they input ~25watts into the water.


As a general rule, anything Thermaltake says about watercooling should be taken with a grain of salt and should be double checked by a knowledgeable member of the watercooling community.

;) excuse the english lesson for a second :-P

Quote:

---

which one is more better ?
anyone care to enlight me ?

---

Which one is more efficiant

Which one would be better


I work with 4 asian girls at school, one is chinese, one from Taiwan, and two from Japan, and all of them don't speak fluent english, and I some how ended being their surigate english tutor :D

Its hard to break the ebonics, and foul language they have picked up. But there is progress. Now if I was not involved I would be dating one;)

oh. feel free to correct me too. :)

Hey all, is there any advantage to having the radiator on the top vs. on the bottom? I was thinking of setting up my rad on the bottom (and raising the case to give it sufficient airflow).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wildcard

Hey all, is there any advantage to having the radiator on the top vs. on the bottom? I was thinking of setting up my rad on the bottom (and raising the case to give it sufficient airflow).

---

I had this question as well

I assume on the bottom you want to blow air in..if the rad is on top to suck out?

Apart from possible effects on convective airflow of secondary components, there is no difference... provided they are both drawing in fresh air from outside the case.

Obv if the rad is breathing air thats gone through the case, temps will be x degrees higher - where x is the delta between ambient and rad-in air temps.

If your rad is blowing air into the case, I imagine there would be increased case temps, but is this something that I would need to be concerned about?

I imagine the lesser of the two evils (blowing hot air into case, blowing hot air through the rad) would be to blow the hot air from the rad into the case.

What's the temp increase of the air after it has gone through the rad?

well the air that goes through the rad does just heat up a few degres. so the added airflow through the case might just be good!

I can't believe that maxxx replied to a post with a Tt wc'ing picture... :lol2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeBar

I can't believe that maxxx replied to a post with a Tt wc'ing picture... :lol2:

---

Don't get it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by phelan1777

Don't get it?

---

Ever heard the phrase "I won't even justify that comment with a response."

Well that is what I think he was trying to get at.. Anything with a picutre of Thermaltake watercooling it is below even getting a response.

While I would be inclined to believe this, sadly the world doesnt work that way and if we ignored all of the Tt watercooling posts people might actaully buy that garbage. Thermaltake is kind of like AIDS; it wont go away just by ingoring it.


And yes you can sig quote me on that one.

think that explain it :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Thermaltake is kind of like AIDS; it wont go away just by ingoring it.


And yes you can sig quote me on that one.

---

O I will sir, believe you me I will. (after i correct your spelling, that is)

lol.. i purposely made sure not to miss-spell anything in that sentance and I did anyway... ohwell. If you want to be really nitpicky, in the word "wont" it should be "won't"...

nubs question:

is swiftech apex ultra kit any good?? your guide did say that Apogee CPU Block is no good

or a custom slecetion of package is better??

Hey Crediki move tothe US, where now you will HAVE to learn English according to the US Governent :D ..........though like 98% of Americans can't speak/write PROPER English anyway.

BECAUSE English is not American, we speak AMERICAN english here, and then there is Ebonics also know as "slang", and Spanglish, then you have the rest of the languages.

The only people that speak English ARE the English, well that is how I look at it anyway.

there "aint" no "aint" in the AMERICAN English language, I don't care if it's in the Dictionary.

but my English class is called "English" lol, thats puzzling isn't it??

anyway is Swiftech Apex Ultra kit good?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theteamaqua

but my English class is called "English" lol, thats puzzling isn't it??

anyway is Swiftech Apex Ultra kit good?

---

Yeah I know..............oh well skrew inglish, we komuikate sow dat dis aw dat madderz

yeah i love America

anyway can anyone answer my question:

is Swiftech Apex Ultra kit good??

or am i better off with a custom water cooling??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theteamaqua

yeah i love America

anyway can anyone answer my question:

is Swiftech Apex Ultra kit good??

or am i better off with a custom water cooling??

---

Personally I have seen more often then not a custom setup would out perform, and be worth more the time and money.

so for a nub like me, that kit will be a good lesson??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theteamaqua

so for a nub like me, that kit will be a good lesson??

---

Did you read the Stickies here in the Liquid cooling section?

They contain some useful, if not at least informing details, as well as try to read over the threads from other NOOBs and see what was mentioned there from Vet water coolers.

I can't say as fact as I am still working on getting my first loop up and running (nudges Fareast:D ) as I am waiting on my water pump. I am putting together a custom loop, as I have seen mentioned and read much on not getting a Kit. But to each his own, and depends on how much you want to put work into it, and money. Custom, to me is more learning, and satisfaction.

yeah i guess

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Ever heard the phrase "I won't even justify that comment with a response."

Well that is what I think he was trying to get at.. Anything with a picutre of Thermaltake watercooling it is below even getting a response.

While I would be inclined to believe this, sadly the world doesnt work that way and if we ignored all of the Tt watercooling posts people might actaully buy that garbage. Thermaltake is kind of like AIDS; it wont go away just by ingoring it.


And yes you can sig quote me on that one.

---

U know i was joking m8... :)
Every question needs an answer, like every desease needs a cure... ;)

so is it possible to make a pinned thread tell noobies how bad the water cooling kits are?? (just wondering), and why they are bad?? because, well i used the search funciton and found out that Bigwater is bad, but there still Corsair, Swiftech, Koolance ... and which when i used search funtion they dont come up a lot

Its already in the stickyes... "dont buy kits" or something to that effect :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer

Not exactly. 6/32 are machine screws and the #6 screws are self tapping sheet metal screws. Machine screws need to scew into threaded metal to work correctly.


As I said in the guide, the best way is to have the tubing the shortest. but lets say the tubing is the same lenght wether its like the Tt picture or how I said it is best.

In this case it would be my way that would give the SLIGHT performance gain. The reason for this is that the pump introduces heat into the system and if you have the pump between the radiator and waterblock this heat is NOT disipated. For pumps like the AQZ50Z, and DDC, this is not an issue as the heat input varries between 5-10watts. But for hotter pumps like the MD20's and D5's the gain will be slightly more noticable because they input ~25watts into the water.


As a general rule, anything Thermaltake says about watercooling should be taken with a grain of salt and should be double checked by a knowledgeable member of the watercooling community.

---

thanks for your explaination,
btw, i just bought the Gigabyte 3D Galaxy WC Kit ;)
hopefully it won't disappointed me :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by phelan1777

;) excuse the english lesson for a second :-P



Which one is more efficiant

Which one would be better


I work with 4 asian girls at school, one is chinese, one from Taiwan, and two from Japan, and all of them don't speak fluent english, and I some how ended being their surigate english tutor :D

Its hard to break the ebonics, and foul language they have picked up. But there is progress. Now if I was not involved I would be dating one;)

---

yo dude,
thanks for correct me. :)
i'm feel glad you still understand what i write/mean :p: :D :p:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theteamaqua

so is it possible to make a pinned thread tell noobies how bad the water cooling kits are?? (just wondering), and why they are bad?? because, well i used the search funciton and found out that Bigwater is bad, but there still Corsair, Swiftech, Koolance ... and which when i used search funtion they dont come up a lot

---

The Swiftech kits aren't bad at all, actually, very good. It's just that you can get the same stuff a bit cheaper by getting them seperately.;)

Well, I do have a question about cleaning stuff...

Now, it's clear how to clean a rad. Blocks are so far easy too.

But how would you clean other stuff like a res, a pump, fittings that have o-rings preinstalled? I'm not too sure what the vinegar would do to them, or if it would clean them if you have the 10% concentration stated in the 1st post.
For the pumps, how to clean all the insides? Like the rotor of a DDC, for example.

so long as you can open it up, you can wash the components separately... i take everything apart and clean it with a clean toothbrush & distilled water.

Toothbrush is ok, but how about parts that I can't get to with it? Pipe cleaners? Something like that maybe?
I really don't have a clue yet how to really clean those DDCs.

Yeah, pipe cleaner would probably do it. Ive got some brushes that are used to clean model petrol engines...

Lucky you :) I have some brushes for cleaning firearms, but those are soaked with oil. I'll go on a shopping tour tomorrow, let's see what I can find.
Anything else but vinegar for the acrylic stuff?

i wouldnt use vinegar on plastics tbh, so far water on its own + brushing has done me fine...

Ok, I'll give it a try. I still got like 2 gallons of distilled water here and maybe get more tomorrow. I hope that helps.
2 plex tops and 2 res's want to be shiny again :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by creidiki

i wouldnt use vinegar on plastics tbh

---

U better won't. Plastics and vinegar is a :nono:

Ok, I'll use the normal water for that. What do you think about glass cleaner or something to add?

Better wash it off *REALLY WELL* after, or itll foam in your loop...

I wouldn't use glass cleaner for plastics either. The best thing to clean plastics is some sort of whiteboard foam cleaner.

Let's see if I can find something like that.

@creidiki: Well sure I'll wash it of really well... I don't want to see such stuff in my loop again, would have been even worse if I had used the Tygon already...

Any household detergent will do (the sort you clean your kitchen with, not bleach or anything whacky like that). If you're worried check the bottle; cleaning products will say if they're incompatible with plastics (since many kitchens and baths are made of it).

As always, don't forget to rinse thoroughly.

Sure, the rinse might be the most important part afterwards. No doubt about that.

Lucky me, I found an old res that I might want to clean too. So there's my guinea pig...