OCZ Powerstream 600w Vs. PC Power&cooling 510w (the definite answer)

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Originally Posted by DanIdentity

What exactly are the advantages/disadvantages of having dual 12v rails?

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You know what Dan I have wondered the same thing myself. I don't see the benefit of splitting the Amperage between 2 rails instead of a single rail. :confused:
But there has to be some great reason for it though. :)

Stability.. but an overclocked system will suffer if the PSU cant supply enough amperage to the CPU. Good idea in theory, lacks in practice when overclocking.

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Originally Posted by Onepagebook

zippy 700w has two models, which one you have?
mine is 6701.. it's really a monster. :toast:

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Dumo has what we all have :) Except Conrad whose getting stronger 3.3 and 5v rail version with weaker 12v.
:toast:

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Originally Posted by STEvil

Stability.. but an overclocked system will suffer if the PSU cant supply enough amperage to the CPU. Good idea in theory, lacks in practice when overclocking.

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Thanks STEvil :)
Makes sense.

Having two rails, in theory at least, also leads to reduced signal noise, hence better performance/stability can be achieved with the same rating split over two lines.

Two very well rated and relatively inexpensive units for ATX-GES or EPS +12v for server use, are the FSP460 and FSP550. Both are underrated. Being server PSU's means, native 24-pin, and dual +12v rails. I got two of the FSP 460 units for 100 dollars total (50 each). They lacked the converter, but I just moved the appropriate wires to the desired location with a staple and a sewing needle. It took me one hour total to include beer drinking and BS'ing with my wife.

I sold one of the units for 60 dollars and found an FSP550 for 65 dollars (OEM). All three of the units were rock solid no matter what I threw at them. Just for fun, I cranked up a gas heater in the garage, and got the ambient to 87f. ambient. No change in the rail voltages while running P95 on my 460 that I kept. The Antec True power 430 on another similar rig was all over the place in the same situation. The rails were changing like crazy, and would likely not have lasted for long at those ambient temps. I got rid of it the next morning to some guy willing to give me 40 bucks (he overpaid in my opinion, but he was happy).

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Originally Posted by GazC

Phil Stanbridge at EP is actually a stand up bloke and he has just dropped a lot of money off the PCP&Cs. He doesn't have a massive product range I know, but he is catering for a niche market.

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I had to second this, the service i got from Phil was second to none, i emailed him at 930 on a sunday night about the stock on his PCP&C PSUs and he replied within 10mins!!! He posts on boards like these, and his forums arent as fascist as OCUK's.
Kudos to Phil, i send my business and any other business his way whenever i can.
I love my PCP&C 510 deluxe, cant comment on the OCZ, but it seems to me that there is a lack of argument to be had here, PCP&C's are superior electrically it would seem, but the OCZ is cheaper.

G

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Originally Posted by Master_G

.....but the OCZ is cheaper.

G

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The OCZ 520 is cheaper, but the OCZ 600W is barely cheaper, if at all at the current sale price Phil is running on the PCP&C :banana:

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Originally Posted by mluckey

Having two rails, in theory at least, also leads to reduced signal noise, hence better performance/stability can be achieved with the same rating split over two lines.

Two very well rated and relatively inexpensive units for ATX-GES or EPS +12v for server use, are the FSP460 and FSP550. Both are underrated. Being server PSU's means, native 24-pin, and dual +12v rails. I got two of the FSP 460 units for 100 dollars total (50 each). They lacked the converter, but I just moved the appropriate wires to the desired location with a staple and a sewing needle. It took me one hour total to include beer drinking and BS'ing with my wife.

I sold one of the units for 60 dollars and found an FSP550 for 65 dollars (OEM). All three of the units were rock solid no matter what I threw at them. Just for fun, I cranked up a gas heater in the garage, and got the ambient to 87f. ambient. No change in the rail voltages while running P95 on my 460 that I kept. The Antec True power 430 on another similar rig was all over the place in the same situation. The rails were changing like crazy, and would likely not have lasted for long at those ambient temps. I got rid of it the next morning to some guy willing to give me 40 bucks (he overpaid in my opinion, but he was happy).

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This would be great, especially if you had enough Amperage on each line to handle a good load. An alternative to dual PSU's to get rid of line noise.

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Originally Posted by :banana::banana::banana:in

:D Mine arrived today as well :D Yes it is a beaut, even an idiot like me can route these cables neatly! However, just put it in, and I can't OC my 2X6800 GTs past 370/1050 :( Using a dual PSU set up I can clock to 420/1140.

Anyone any ideas? The 2 molex>PCIe adaptor is a cheap one that came with the GC, no others seem available in the UK - could the lack of shielding effect it? I'm using the two shielded molex connectors. Sorry for the slight hijack - but its usefull info maybe (certainly for me!) on the OCZ 600.

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man.... anyone else in this boat? I was going to order an OCZ, I was going to give one GT the PCI-e connector, then use a converter that converts 2 molexes into a PCIe connector. The two molexes I were to use would be BOTH the two shielded solo cables. I figured that would work well.

I mean I dont want to be OT.... but for me and others its stuff like this that is at stake... Oscill majiggers dont mean crap when one can swing SLI and the other not... so any PCP&C experince also appreciated. Of course ripple matters, but I dont think we really need .1% tolerance like we need power. This kind of money you want to keep the things around awhile.

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Originally Posted by texuspete2k2

I mean I dont want to be OT...

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This is not off topic. We have some SLi boards that are begging for 2 6-pin connectors. So far we've barely had one Power Supply show up.

pcp&c has an 510 SLI with dual SLI connectors on the market, I have an uncle that bought one direct and recieved it within a week.

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Originally Posted by texuspete2k2

man.... anyone else in this boat? I was going to order an OCZ, I was going to give one GT the PCI-e connector, then use a converter that converts 2 molexes into a PCIe connector. The two molexes I were to use would be BOTH the two shielded solo cables. I figured that would work well.

I mean I dont want to be OT.... but for me and others its stuff like this that is at stake... Oscill majiggers dont mean crap when one can swing SLI and the other not... so any PCP&C experince also appreciated. Of course ripple matters, but I dont think we really need .1% tolerance like we need power. This kind of money you want to keep the things around awhile.

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I've posted to another thread that my problem is sorted ... Its nothing to do with the psu - its me putting the system together with my eyes shut. The adaptor that was supplied to me (Akasa) was wired incorrectly (upsidedown), so it was wired to the +5v side of the molex connector instead of the +12v side!ooops! Didn't work for some reason! As soon as I got a correctly wired adaptor its fine!

there is a new thermaltake with dual pci-e conector i know is not good but is 680w i saw a review somewhere

here is the link
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=745

Can PCP&C make a psu with a display(3.3 and 12.0 v rails) for the voltage on the side or the front panel of the case? I mean as a custom option. That would be nice.

It is troublesome to measure the voltage with a multimeter everytime.

Where can you custom configurate the PCP&C psu's?

Also, are the pcp&c psu's at extremeprometeia 230v / 50hz?

you need to contact PCP&C directly to get them custom made I believe.

Should be a switch on them for 110/230 if the newer ones arent active PFC already.

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Originally Posted by STEvil

you need to contact PCP&C directly to get them custom made I believe.

Should be a switch on them for 110/230 if the newer ones arent active PFC already.

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I think they're all with active PFC, at least the 510W models.

Just sent an e-mail to PcP&C by asking would they upgrade my vanilla 510W to the 510W SLI one and replace the built in 3.3v pot to be able to raise the 3.3v rail to 3.7 (at present, the pot maxes out at 3.42) :cool: Let's see what they are going to say on that.

Well FWIW, I've just had some trouble with my OCZ 520W psu, with wildly fluctuating 5+12V rails, and we're talking like a 1.50V variation on the 12V rail.

I've put my PC Power and Cooling Turbo Cool 510 Deluxe back in the system and been testing it today. My system puts a fairly sizeable load on the psu, pulling up to 640W from the socket (measured) during testing/benching. I'm sure the load is high because the fan in the PCP&C is sounding almost like my Delta EHE atm. The air coming out of the back is really hot, I can almost burn my fingers on the fan grill (ok, I won't burn them, but it's way to hot to keep them there for more than a few seconds anyway.

And meanwhile I'm measuring the 12V rail with my multimeter. The thing is constantly sitting 11.99 -12.00 V. I'm impressed, really impressed. The OCZ is out of my system for good.

Btw. SPL15: Thanks a lot for all the information. I have a lot of extension cables on my PCP&C and at the end of those I've actually got a 0.3V drop on the 12V rail under load. So I guess the only real shortcoming of the PCP&C is a shortage of molex connectors.

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Originally Posted by LarsK

Btw. SPL15: Thanks a lot for all the information. I have a lot of extension cables on my PCP&C and at the end of those I've actually got a 0.3V drop on the 12V rail under load. So I guess the only real shortcoming of the PCP&C is a shortage of molex connectors.

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Can you change te voltage with a pot?

Or does it have a "sense" line? Because if there is a 0.3v drop and you meassuring the 12v on a molex that is unused, the voltage on the board is 11.7v

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Originally Posted by Epsilon

Can you change te voltage with a pot?

Or does it have a "sense" line? Because if there is a 0.3v drop and you meassuring the 12v on a molex that is unused, the voltage on the board is 11.7v

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Well, I haven't got any unused molex plugs atm. I've measured on the ones in use. I have quite a few splitter cables (molex) as I'm about 6 molex adapters short on the PC P&C.

I measured 12V to 11.99-12.00V under max. load (dual prime torture + 3dmark nature 1600x1200 fsaa max) on any of the molex plugs coming from the psu. Then I also measured on the wires from the 80w pelt, (on the end of an extension cord from the psu as well) and there I measured ~11.70V.

In relatively idle condition (sitting in windows basically) I measured 12.05-12.06V and 11.72V respectively.

The 5V rail measured a rock solid 5.14V under max. load, didn't even bulge 0.01V either way.

I have maxed out all pots 3.3, 5 and 12, but there's only a +/- 1% adjustability.

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Originally Posted by LarsK

Well, I haven't got any unused molex plugs atm. I've measured on the ones in use. I have quite a few splitter cables (molex) as I'm about 6 molex adapters short on the PC P&C.

I measured 12V to 11.99-12.00V under max. load (dual prime torture + 3dmark nature 1600x1200 fsaa max) on any of the molex plugs coming from the psu. Then I also measured on the wires from the 80w pelt, (on the end of an extension cord from the psu as well) and there I measured ~11.70V.

In relatively idle condition (sitting in windows basically) I measured 12.05-12.06V and 11.72V respectively.

The 5V rail measured a rock solid 5.14V under max. load, didn't even bulge 0.01V either way.

I have maxed out all pots 3.3, 5 and 12, but there's only a +/- 1% adjustability.

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1% isn't that much :(

allso, i would really like to have a 24pin connecter and 2x 6pin SLI connecters on the PSU which are only on the turbocool.

I can't find any reseller in europe that has all the versions :(. Only the deluxe version

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Originally Posted by Epsilon

1% isn't that much :(

allso, i would really like to have a 24pin connecter and 2x 6pin SLI connecters on the PSU which are only on the turbocool.

I can't find any reseller in europe that has all the versions :(. Only the deluxe version

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I hear you. I teamed up with a friend and we ordered 2x psu's from PCP&C, somhow they "missed" customs and turned out not to get all that expensive anyway.... :D

Personally I'm going for the new 850/950 psu from PCP&C, it has 2x pci-e plus 24-pin adapter. You can see it under what's new on their front page. I know I'm hooked. Hoping for at lest +/- 5% adjustable pots though.... :)

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Originally Posted by LarsK

I hear you. I teamed up with a friend and we ordered 2x psu's from PCP&C, somhow they "missed" customs and turned out not to get all that expensive anyway.... :D

Personally I'm going for the new 850/950 psu from PCP&C, it has 2x pci-e plus 24-pin adapter. You can see it under what's new on their front page. I know I'm hooked. Hoping for at lest +/- 5% adjustable pots though.... :)

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PCP&C have their 510W models by the new ATX standards as well, even a SLI Deluxe version with all the goodies, including dual PCI-E power adaptors. I'm sure, they're able to power a SLI rig easily.

As for the built in pots, my 510W maxes out the 3.3 line at 3.42, while 5 and 12 came "overclocked" from factory to 5.2 and 12.2, respectively. I've heard you can ask PCP&C to replace the pots with more adjustable ones while ordering the psu from them, however, they've not responded to any of my inquiries I've mailed them to intsales@pcpow.com so far, thus, I don't really know.

Interesting stuff in this thread.
Say where exactly can you buy PCP&C or Zippy PSU in europe?

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Originally Posted by LarsK

I hear you. I teamed up with a friend and we ordered 2x psu's from PCP&C, somhow they "missed" customs and turned out not to get all that expensive anyway.... :D

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There's no customs duty on computer PSU's when imported to the EU - or at least there wasn't when I bought my vanilla Turbo-Cool 510 from PC Power and Cooling 1½ years ago. Vat is another story though :stick:

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Originally Posted by mluckey

Two very well rated and relatively inexpensive units for ATX-GES or EPS +12v for server use, are the FSP460 and FSP550. Both are underrated. Being server PSU's means, native 24-pin, and dual +12v rails. I got two of the FSP 460 units for 100 dollars total (50 each). They lacked the converter, but I just moved the appropriate wires to the desired location with a staple and a sewing needle. It took me one hour total to include beer drinking and BS'ing with my wife.

I sold one of the units for 60 dollars and found an FSP550 for 65 dollars (OEM). All three of the units were rock solid no matter what I threw at them. Just for fun, I cranked up a gas heater in the garage, and got the ambient to 87f. ambient. No change in the rail voltages while running P95 on my 460 that I kept. The Antec True power 430 on another similar rig was all over the place in the same situation. The rails were changing like crazy, and would likely not have lasted for long at those ambient temps. I got rid of it the next morning to some guy willing to give me 40 bucks (he overpaid in my opinion, but he was happy).

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so true, i simply LOVE my Fortron FSB550.

i really do think they are underrated, as some others do too, and their rails are rock solid too. needed a 24-20 Pin converter tho(didn feel link tinkering with the connectors, too lazy).

thinking it'll have no problems handling the Sli rig of mine coming up.:)

I have a new PCP&C 510 SLI on the way. It will be powering two 6800 Ultra's on the Asus SLI mobo in a packed gaming rig. I should have everything hooked up by the weekend and will let you guys know if the 510 SLI can handle it.

FYI - based on my direct discussions with PCP&C on this topic, they said the PSU can easily handle it. They further stated that the SLI PSU was particularly designed to handle to top of the line (ultras) and still have some overhead for larger power comsumptions if future crads needed it.

I'll have results soon.

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Originally Posted by comment

There's no customs duty on computer PSU's when imported to the EU - or at least there wasn't when I bought my vanilla Turbo-Cool 510 from PC Power and Cooling 1½ years ago. Vat is another story though :stick:

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Hehe, well we somehow managed to miss the 25% vat as well ;)

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Originally Posted by mdzcpa

I have a new PCP&C 510 SLI on the way. It will be powering two 6800 Ultra's on the Asus SLI mobo in a packed gaming rig. I should have everything hooked up by the weekend and will let you guys know if the 510 SLI can handle it.

FYI - based on my direct discussions with PCP&C on this topic, they said the PSU can easily handle it. They further stated that the SLI PSU was particularly designed to handle to top of the line (ultras) and still have some overhead for larger power comsumptions if future crads needed it.

I'll have results soon.

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Excellent, will be looking forward to your comments. I have no doubt that the PSU will handle it, I don't think 2 Ultra's are going to pull that much more power than the x800xt pe @ 600 Mhz plus a 80W pelt I have in my system. My P4EE @ ~4.4 Ghz and @ 1.85V is quite power hungry as well. Don't know just how hungry compared to an FX chip @ 3.3 Ghz though?

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Originally Posted by LarsK

Hehe, well we somehow managed to miss the 25% vat as well ;)

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Hehe... Thought so :D

Before long:

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Originally Posted by Ekstra Bladet

Today the homes of countless hardware geeks - known as The Vat Evasion Gang - was raided all over Devils Isle by heavily armed S.W.A.T. teams in a coordinated effort to fight the illegal distribution of computer power supplies...

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:eek: :D :D

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Originally Posted by LightSpeed

so true, i simply LOVE my Fortron FSB550.

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Do you mean Fortron FSP550? 12V @ 18A???

Btw, anybody running this Fortron 500W unit? Looks pretty nice & incredible bang for the buck.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...104-934&depa=1

[QUOTE=Epsilon]Where can you custom configurate the PCP&C psu's?

QUOTE]

I just recieved my 510Sli custom from PCPC direct. I had them customize the 3 external pots (10% swing which is not available that high on the internal pots alone), and I added a 4 pin molex and cut down one of the 6 sata's. So it's 1 24, 2 6's, 1 4 power, 8 4 pin molex, 1 floppy and 5 sata + the 3 ext rails. They charge $90 for the ext rails (well worth it) and $10 for the extra molex. The wholesale on the base 510sli is around $219.

Now if I only had my dfi nf4 and an pci-e card.

ive heard you can have them increase the wattage, that true?

an SLI with external pots and 800W would be sweet :slobber:

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Originally Posted by ocmyface

ive heard you can have them increase the wattage, that true?

an SLI with external pots and 800W would be sweet :slobber:

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and amperage :slobber: :D

oooh... can anyone say 100A +12V? :D

100*12 = 1200w ;)

Just a question on the side...
I've bought a secondhand PCP&C 510XE, is the 4pin connector the same as a 'normal' 4 pin connector which you find on any modern PSU?

i just got my sli version since i was needing a new psu, and 2 ocz 520 from newegg came doa. anyhow here are some pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/DSCN0862.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/DSCN0861.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/DSCN0860.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/DSCN0859.jpg

i love when computer stuff arrives in industrial type packing.... :toast:

now the wife is going to kill me...

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Originally Posted by ocmyface

ive heard you can have them increase the wattage, that true?

an SLI with external pots and 800W would be sweet :slobber:

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Her ya go 850 watts TurboCool 850ETX:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/about/index_whatnew.htm

11 pounds. 4 inches longer than an atx supply.

how much that cost ya??

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Originally Posted by computerpro3

and uninterruptable power supply. I reccomend them for ALL psu's, not just ocz's.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
They are just a really, really good idea to have.

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Yes indeed. :cool:
Sadly the integrity of house current almost never comes into question with
most people. A good UPS is a good start. One with AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulation) is even better.
Not only will it help the system withstand a power drop, an even current flow
makes things easier on the PSU. Kind of makes you wonder how many
people complaining of blown components can be attributed to
inconsistant power supply. Especially those who gamble with generic PSU. :stick:

All I can say is a nice strong UPS w/AVR has been a lifesaver here.
The brown-outs wouldn't make the house lights flicker at all. But they were
enough to make the system reboot. Was driving me batty!

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Originally Posted by mluckey

Once again, I plug Fortron, and this time for a reason.
Price/Performance dominance, as well as low ripple king. I would really like to
see a 550 or 460 Fortron at 45 C. go head to head with other "high end" PSU's. The results would be interesting, since FSP advertises a 50 C.
>>>>>>>

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Not many Fortron have the temp at which the amperage specs are rated.
Least not from what I've seen. Physical Operating conditions, yes. The
ones that are listed are 25c. Take the Fortron 530w for instance:
- 530w @ 25c ... or, 455w @ 50c - ...
source:
http://www.home2000.net/client/fspgr...30-60GNA_S.pdf

Fortron makes some nice PSU. My 400w unit is almost as heavy as this
PCP&C 425dlx. Rails on the 425 are slightly more stable though. When building
a stock rig, or even a mid-level OCer, the Fortron would be my choice. But
for a top performing OCing rig, it's PCP&C all the way. Your system is only
as strong as it's weakest link. And the power supply is a pretty darn big link!! :D

heh.. I need to get a UPS bad.. brown outs here make the lights dim (drops to ~85v) but nothing shuts off unless the power goes out completely.

If the lights dim for a second when you turn on your computer, should I be worried? I have an Antec TruePower 430W.

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Originally Posted by MUCHO

>>>>>
Also - your method of using Google to demonstrate which power supply has more failures is decidedly unscientific and quite meaningless. OCZ sells signifigantly more power supplys - to a completely different group of people than would buy the PCP&P.

On the otherhand - it was rather dramatic and effective at getting people's attention. Heck - it certainly got mine.
>>>>>>

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Have to agree in part here. OCZ themselves admit their PSU aren't intended
to compete directly with PCP&C. Very early on some OCZ had problems with
defective 600w units. Apparently the capacitors were pushed too close together
causing the +12v rail to short. OCZ was extremely good about
correcting the problem. There is also a cold boot issue with MSI neo2
borads. Since it's very popular board right now that may also contribute to
the apparent high failure rate.
Anyone seeking more info on OCZ power supplies should consult
the OCZ Power Supply Unit Warranty Support * forums.

PC Power & Cooling is no way immune to bad components either. Some 510w
units were relesed with defective inductor coils. There were several posts
in the forums about this, some with images.

DudeMiester - its probably a sign of bad wiring and you might need a UPS..

Mine dims too.. lol.

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Originally Posted by DudeMiester

If the lights dim for a second when you turn on your computer, should I be worried? I have an Antec TruePower 430W.

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Are you saying your house lights dim when you turn on the PC? :eek:
If so that cannot be a good thing. If your house wiring is that bad you should
have licenced electrician take a look at it. Not just for your PC, but for the life
of all your electrical appliances.

A good UPS would really help, even better if it is an AVR unit.

When i flip on the power switch on the back of my power supply you can see the lights dim a little for a split second. It's caused by the capacitors in the primary side of the power supply charging up suddenly from being discharged. this is perfectly normal to some extent. what causes it is wire acting as a resistor cause of the length/gauge and current through the wire. only way to solve it is run larger gauge wire and reduce wire length or have the power supply makers implement a softstart circuit for the power supply which aint gonna happen. If your living in a trailer wired with aluminum 18 gauge conductor, then I would be very worried about even using the lights let alone a computer.

If you think lights dimming for a split second is bad, I built an amplifier that will blow the breaker on a 220VAC 30 amp special purpose line dedicated specifically to that amplifier when powered on without the soft-start circuit enabled!!!

Yes, I know full well many things make your house lights dim. You should see the
shop lights when I fire up the lathe ... lol
I was just surprised that a PC would make the lights dimm that much. I'd be interested
in knowing what amp breaker it's connected to, and the condition of the ground.
My house wiring was causing me a fit until I got the UPS/AVR. Shortly there after
had my elec. contractor buddy install a new 20a breaker and ground line for my
computer. A bit of an overkill I know. Was free because he owed me a favor for
some machine work. ... Love the barter system. :D

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Originally Posted by computerpro3

:rolleyes:

pcp&c = adjustable pots and better rails, higher sustained output, less mv ripple, higher peak output, customized options, 5 year warranty, any anything you can possibly think of done to it. You want 50amps on 12v line? ask em. want every cable a certain length? they'll do it. Want a 20 SATA connecter psu? Done. Exernal pots mounted on 3 foot wires? WAy ahead of you. No limit on adjustable pots, and no OVP? Of course.

I can't believe people think OCZ is on par with pcp&c, when they are made by topower and pcp&c is zippy/emacs, and I can give you quotes from an ocz rep themselves as well as hipro about the pcp&c's superiority.

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To start, OCZ has a 5 year warranty on the Powerstream. We will cross ship a replacement for the first 3 years, then repair or replace for the next 2 years upon receipt of your PSU. I have read the PCP&C warranty and I am reasonably sure they are not better.

No one will agrue that PCP&C has great quality products. Some folks just will not spend that kind of money for those specs.
As far as someone receiving 2 DOA PSU's it makes me wonder what was really up. We have a very low failure and return rate.

If you want a PCP&P, buy one, they are great. If you want to spend less and get some cool features without a special order, get a Powerstream. We stand behind them and you will be happy with the performance. :)

that was deep andy :)

do have any information about line noise/ripple on the powerstreams?

I will see what I can dig up. Bump this if I get sidetracked.

Honestly specs don't mean squat if the darn PSU won't power your rig. We have guys overclocking to the moon with SLI rigs running our 520w and 600w Powerstreams and the PSU is still begging for more. I use a 470w and a 600w on my rigs and am quietly amazed at the steady rails and overclocks I'm getting.

Just saw a store with the 850W version but their not in stock yet, I'm guessing soon. Are the PCI-E leads shieled on these PSU's?