Thanks for the feedback guys. If there's any other comments, feel free to share.
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Thanks for the feedback guys. If there's any other comments, feel free to share.
see the thread in the amd sub-forum about the new dfi board.
well that's what you need to release lol.
One more tidbit for usb vs ps2; a link to that puts it into perspective:
http://galeb.etf.bg.ac.yu/~tomcat/beapro1.htm
google cached version:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...nse+time&hl=en
I rate an average 250ms from the reflex tester page:)
Oh, I vote for ps/2; I have no use for wasted cpu cycles:P
basically ATI.
make this board as good as how the DFI board is looking with the nforce4 SLI.
but thats up to the board manufacturer moreso. compare the asus to the DFI.
one board sucks, the other is amazing.
Can you be more precise I tried to search with no luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsRejection
Perhaps you're refering to the thread about the nf3 s939 DFI board?
Thanks
EDIT: Oh I just found it here
Yea its the thread that has ammassed 260 posts in 24 hours... :stick:
nF4, not nf3 :P
how about a super easy bios flashing utility.
i like winflash but, alot of people are scared to flash thier bios becasue they dont understand what they need to do.
also i love the memtest86 in the bios of my lanpartyUT DFI, its awesome.
how about a utility that tests the cpu and ram in the same way.
really i want something that i dont have to upgrade in like 2months lol.
and i love the black pcb always looks awesome. :toast:
UV reactive circuts on a black PCB :D onboard tach
i love the idea of usb floppy.
i never really use it anyways i would rather have more features.
another thing i really like about nForce3 is the no southbridge.
1.) Even if you wont let 4v and 2v be available in the stock bios, atleast make it unlockable by the people like tictac? I believe the DFI board has higher Vdimm with a modded bios. Dont pull from the 3.3v line please!! :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
Windows based utilitys suck... generally.. Abits uGuru doesnt work well at all.
just give us the ICS number and we'll make our own clock utility for it ;)
That might be a little tougher than you might think. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
why is that, cant deciede on the chip, or trying to make one we can't screw around with ;)
not sure if it's been mentioned but will you have bios memory option like DFI NF3 250Gb's drive strength.. it really makes a difference in high mhz memory overclocking especially for 2x 512MB modules!
The chip has been decided on. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
I've been told this is a misconception. The CPU only supports two levels of drive for all the important signals on the memory interface (normal and weak drive). The default is normal drive and weak drive is not recommended. This comes from a good source.
Newer CPUs are a different story however. They have some strength adjustments but they don't look like they are in that particular board's sbios unless there was an update.
It would be interesting to hear some real world experience as to how the drive strength control helped overclocking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva2000
it definitely helped on DFI NF3 250Gb my results at http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=142
i.e. 2x 512MB Kingston HyperX PC3200 KHX3200/512 BH-5 without drive strength only does 233mhz 2-2-2-6 at 3.3-3.6v, change to drive strength 1 or 2 and i can do 250mhz 2-2-2-6 at 3.4-3.6v
1x 512MB OCZ PC3700EB same board without drive strength only does around 260-265mhz 3-2-2-6, drive strength 1 or 2 and i'm doing 275-283mhz 3-2-2-6 at 3.43v
then again it does depend on the memory modules, some modules have no difference
now what would be wonderfully if you managed to allow 4 dimm modules populated and still do 1T command rate hehe, i don't know of one board that can do that yet
Has anyone actually checked what changes in the CPU register programming when changing the drive strength settings in the cmos?
Anyone who has access to a BKDG will be able to see what I'm talking about in terms of drive strength.
I may have to get one of these boards in my lab to see what it actually does.
dont know if anyone has checked to see what registers change, but there are differences between 1,2,3 and 4.. maybe just that some dont work indicating they dont change anything or to an unsupported value?
I do have a question though.. how about cas latencies higher than 3? I have yet to see a board that posts with a cas latency of 3.5 or higher.. so is that a chipset issue or a bios issue?
higher than 3? mmm...that might be good for extremely high 1:1 FSB running. Is that what you want?
jjcom
something like that
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
:D
Would be interesting to see if cas of 3.5 would hurt performance bad enough and let you have enough of a speed boost to change anything :slobber:
My A-Data Pc4000 is just begging for me to get an a64 and push that stuff to its max. :)
What TA wants...
I think the board should have a bright white PCB. think about it. who has done a white pcb? White looks awesome under uv. and uv lights make it look cool, but even without lights, the shock value alone would make it a universally recognised board. You guys want something that is unexpected. RED pcb is so predictable from ati. And black is too boring. Yeah white pcb might look dirty quick and collect dust, but most of us are on top with board maintenance and it would look good when you first pull it out of the box. I think for the other options just look at dfi and do what they are doing, but take out all the bs we don't need. like that 5.25 bay thing they give you on the high end model, and most of us use pci cards for sound. I don't care what they say, onboard sound blows! we need some sataII, and 3 ram dimms. who uses all 4? most of us only need 2, but if using a ddr booster, you want to have 3. if the board has up to 4vdimm avail, we only need 2 slots. takes booster out of the equasion and leaves more space on the board. the dual gpu is key! nvidia is really taking the 05/03 orb scores because of sli. Ati needs to either come out with a single slot pci-e card with 2 cores, or get us an sli killer/ AMR. It would be cool if ati made an easy vmod card with a simple jumper on the card for us using xtreme cooling to allow more voltage. this would be hot! just pull the plug and bam! you're in voltage heaven! Then once you've set the jumper, you flash the cards bios to allow higher voltage through the card. THis will keep the average joe from making a mistake. (then again, how many average joe's would buy a card like this?) This would really be nice because once you start soldering, there goes the warranty....
I would also like to see a board that has a cmos jumper in a place that is actually accessible. with all my watercooling and crap and tubes all over, I need to use a flash light get on my hands and knees and use a surgical tools just to reset the damn cmos jumper. make a long plastic jumper that sticks out far so you can actually get to it without having a panic attack. maybe put the jumper on the upper left side by the ps2 ports. instead of including crap you don't use, maybe a simple 90mm fan with an arm that can be mounted through a small hole through the pcb to go over the ram dimms. that would be awesome! Ati needs to crack down on quality control too. there are too many board makers that don't look before they jump. nvidia doesn't seem to give a damn as long as they are making money. Board makers are releasing boards without having a single bios or manual etc. on their sites. Go to chaintech and look at the VNF4. this is a perfect example. MSI has an rs480 m2 and they don't have anything yet either. I am expecting that board any day for a review I'm doing and I don't even know if there's a beta bios or any support for that matter. Sheesh...:shrug:
Another thought...
Many people feel that it is high DRAM voltage that is killing A64 processors but we have not had an official word from AMD on this, so we are kinda flying blind.. it makes sense though as some dual channel setups will lose one channel at a time.
Is it possible to take the DRAM voltage and create a "divider" to reference from so the processor does not have to recieve such a high voltage? Or does it already recieve a low voltage but raising it increases the reference voltage too high?
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
Stevil, you're talkin loco and I like it! :toast:
good idea, sounds very nice. my view on things:
Silver board with blood red and black PCI slots
jumper to change the board to use Vdimm from 5v rail
Some type of "control" panel on the front, that shows voltages, temps and has a little cover you move to press a "reset Cmos" button.
As for onboard sound...I like it, if you can get a nice high quilty on board sound going then its great...Creative Audgy 2 on board...is that possible?
some type of bracket on the board that puts a fan on top of the RAM, and a place to allow a fan to blow on the Mosfets for the RAM and CPU.
ABOSOLUTY NO OVP!!! :D
Sometype of acurate onboard voltage measurement and temp mesurement. That would be very useful.
Maybe have a board with on board LEDs...you know it has a place for like blue, green, red, etc colored LEDs to plug in. That would look nice....for those with those large coolers having red coming up through them.
Do away with with two PS/2 ports...make a universal plug for either keyboard or mouse and just have one, like on a laptop.
Come premade with nice NB, SB cooler.
I know some of these things have already been said, but I guess I'm trying to say I'm another vote for support :D
jjcom
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
YES.
how is the DFI karajan onboard sound? what would it be comprable to? like SB Live
I am waiting to buy this board.
I do want some features on the board the people that want a bench board that will never see a tower, maybe ATI could just send them some Engineering samples.
For the rest of Us some onboard features Plus some Nice clean Overclocking features would be great.
Onboard sound is a must Just for the simple fact of selling boards. The
mainstream Users will turn away from a soundless board. It is Just to Jurassic.
A onboard nic is a must.
A FDD connector for me is give or take. I use a floppy in every system I build. For sata drivers, bios flashing and startup disk for system back ups. I would like to see a FDD but could Live with out one if needed.
Ps/2 for Keyboard and mice are a Must. USB is driver based and still buggy it would be a shame to recieve a bunch of RMA'd boards do to keyboards and mice not working, just because of User error.
Two IDE ports are a must, using just one if you are using a IDE based HD with a Optical drive getting a cable to span both drives is a real Pain especially with larger cases.
IDE drives are long in there stride and for the money they will be around a bit yet.
The I/O parrell port can go they are long gone. com ports too.
3 PCI slots would be a luxury 2 PCI slots are a must. TVcard and upgraded sound card = a upgrade path.
I really see no need for 4 dimm slots, all of the benchers here only use one dimm 99% of the time. The average user will use 2-512 dimms at most and only the super extreme or a server builder will use 4 dimm slots. 1,2 slots overclock better than 3 or 4. loosing 2 dimms could free up some serious space.
Just making a robust chipset is the first priorty, in which ATI has. Second would be a Clean and fruitful Power scheme across the board.
People Like goodies, supplying (FET) Heatsinks Like Epox does with there Powerpack bundle along with some Quality round cables will add some glitZ to the package and secure some wanted sales.
if 4V for dimm voltage is too much to build into the board, build the power circuit so that a simple resister mode can be done in the field, same with the Vcore. the Extreme enthusiest will be more than eager to do a dab of soldering or make a grabber purchase. :2cents:
nah id want 4 dimm slots...
why. I'd never use more than 2 slots. It just makes things easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by enzoR
I'd rather have 4, too.
run 2gb for gaming, pull two sticks for benching.
Sounds like things are shaping up
can't wait to try out this board.
when you make the chipset, please be cognizant of placement of the chipset and that overclockers like add their own cooling solutions. a major drawback of many of the nf3, nf4 boards is that the chipset cooling lies right under the graphics cards and don't give you room to add custom air/water cooling.
also, if you do plan on AMR for this board, leave enough space between the 2 gfx cards to allow for dual slot air/water/phase cooling solutions. an even better solution would be to make mirror image cards available. by this i mean, make a small production # of cards that are mirror images of the normal cards so that space between the cards isn't an issue for mounting cooling. i'd guess this wouldn't be feasible but toss the idea to the engineers and have them give a go at it. you could sell them at a ratio comparable to what you think the % of people going AMR would be.
this would end with too many dead boards or people complaining about dead memory and cpus i gues...Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPAINTER
but a nice idear would be to build the board so that modding it would be quite easy and allows stable 4v vdimm and stable 2v vcore :)
Proper component placement alleviates the need for mirrored cards. Proper placement would also allow aftermarket cooling on the NB. This is one of the biggest problems with the current boards out there. You have a NB & SB combined into one package. It gets hot and it's placement on the board precludes the use of a better cooler and in most cases long graphics cards actually impede airflow into the stock coolers. With a discrete NB and SB there are distinct advantages in this regard. Firstly, the design breaks up the thermals into two chips so that each one is cooler from the beginning. Secondly, with two chips the traditional NB placement is such that there is a lot of space in that area for a significant stock cooler and space for aftermarket ones as well. Having said that, keep in mind that the TDP of the RX480 is very low and even an active cooler with a fan would be considered overkill. This chip can run without a heatsink without any problems whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikdoc
I am very interested at what you guys have gotten out of this board.
ATi pwnz j00! If this is anything remotely resembling some of the ideas bounced around in this thread it'll be an nForce killer.
yeah, so far there chipset sounds great, just that USB thing, but beyond that its great. If ATi makes a board like this, prices is right, and gets it out in numbers it will be great. ATi makes great stuff so this should be interesting to see.
I'm noticing something, more companies are getting on XS and I'm noticing more of there posts from there workers. GraySkull for example, he's here getting feedback on what we want, smart move for ATI to make.
jjcom
I have been able to (atleast) match the best overclock numbers (air to air) of the "best" board that everyone is talking about. This is on our Bullhead reference board with stock AMD cooler. :D Haven't even really tried too hard neither. I want to make some facts about that board known to all so that you can put things into perspective:
-it's a 4 layer board
-it was never designed to deliver the amount of current required for extreme overclocking of the memories or CPU
-the NB core, pci-e and HT power rails are all driven by the same regulator
-significant space has been allocated for debug functionality and this takes away from routing resources
For anyone who is familiar with board design, they can fully understand the handicap that this board has. Despite the handicaps, the results speak for themselves.
That's not to say the Bullhead board was a poorly designed board. On the contrary, it shows how skilled our board designers are. They were able to design a board that meets a very low cost target but can perform like the best of the best. The above handicaps are being addressed and another reference board will be available shortly. (One of the "brothers" of Bullhead) This one, has a different set of goals. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by G0DZILLA
I see so your doing something like this, I'll ASUS for an example:
You've got your A7V600-X where X denotes value board
and then you've got your Delux and mainstream boards. am I heading in the right direction here? If so sounds good :D
jjcom
That would be nice but I don't think ATI will mass produce motherboards, just some reference motherboards. :(
yea if i dont see a release date soon...DFI is getting my 200 bills
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcom
:slobber: :toast:
Thats what I got from that post too.. I cant wait to see these things... I haven't decided on my A64 mobo yet :D
That haven't really said if they'll make them or not...but maybe we can encourage them to :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RaptorRaider
jjcom
ive had the A64 bug for a while but im waiting for you ATI.
Give me a board that implements the full feature set of pci express, hence support pci-e x32.
Make that board with:
5 x16 pci-e connectors
2 ~ pci connectors
Allow me to assign the number of pci channels I want to each connectors (bios).
- Give me full access to the pci-e 32 lanes and let me assign them to the connector I want, hence offering me the flexibility of placing high bandwith cards such as a pci-e raid scsi controller (x4) where and when I want it.
- Place 2 video cards in the connectors I want and assign either 8-12-14 or 16 channels per connectors depending of what the card can do, and I'm not stuck in positionning them physically hence plenty of space for monster coolers.
(and ATI go make a prioprietary duplex link to connect from chipset to north bridge ~ find your own don't steal my links - lol!)
I want access to the 32 lanes just for me .
Obviouly this is plenty flexible since x1-x2-x4 are backward connector compatible to x16 !
And to some extent futur proofing meself, for that nice powerfull QUAD GPU/dual slot high bandwith requirement 24 pci-e channels High Performance Video Card ATI will eventually send me for coming up with such a brilliant idea!
Should I send you my mailing address now ?
Comments below...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindbat
:stick: ...ummmmm...yea...all i can say is i hope you dont design any motherboards in the coming yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Blindbat
good look grayskull on this one
pci-e 16x isnt even being saturated yet let alone agp 8x. WHY should motherboard makers design a board that just opens more bandwidth thats not going to be saturated. This is like putting a huge turbo in your civic that doesnt have tires. in other words...pointless :)
Greedy, at 32...not really just want to be able to use the full bandwith of the standard, and at the same time futur proofing myself to some extent.
Northbridge to southbride path, yes u are utilizing 2 pci channel today, use them if you want but you'll probably need more if I have access to 32 pci channel. What ever protocol u use between the two, should not diminish the number of channel for the user.
But in short 32 for me, and for you well your own proprietary if need be.
Channel assignment, nightmare....should not be, challenging yes ..nightmare dunno?Simple thought that comes to my mind is a digital switching matrix.
In short today, with graphic being assign 16 channels, it leaves no room to move into high performance adjunct such as a pci-e scsi controller for example x4. Once utized no channels left for another widget.
The issue is not of being satured, for I agree...the issue is that the lanes are wasted today correctly as u say. x16 is under utilized and wasted. The present architecture prevents me for utilizing the full bandwith of the pci-e channels and re assign them to another devide that could use for example 4 of the lanes not used in a x16 slots and I could use it for a scsi controller for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobalt
Today you have a huge turbo in a civic in the form of x16 16 lanes assigned to that connector ...so to your point .....useless or as u said ..pointless.
When the x16 pci-e bus is saturated, it will have been well past the time of which you should have upgraded your system.
BTW, is it possible for you to be a little more clear in your posts? Try not using dot dot dots cause I really didn't understand half of your post.
You need to understand that pci-e is not bandwith limited. It is channel limited, it does not work like the old pci bus, where all device hopped on the same bus.
In pci-e you assign lanes to each slot. x16 = 16 lanes x1= 1 lane x4 = lanes etc. Today for example try this, considering that all motherboards offered are maxed out at 20 lanes.
Take an ASUS Ultra motherboard with say:
1 - x16 pci-e
1 - x4 pci-e
3 - x1 pci-e
You can easily see that depending on what you install in your system, possibly you will not be able to use 3 connectors.
In my example, put in 1 video card x16, put in 1 SCSI controller x4, where are u going to connect the Audigy 5 ZS x1 coming out later this year ?
Have we reach the bandwith limitation of the system, heck no for as you correctly stated the video card does not utilized the bandwith of the x16 connector, but I loose because I cannot access the unused lanes.
Want another example, look at DFI LanParty SLI...look at it's slot assigment when u go to SLI mode.....
edit: Still think I should not design motherboard Kobalt ...lol!
I can see the need for some of the older architectures like ps/2, floppy, etc. Some people still use this.
I really am keen on the idea of either having dual bios, a bios savior in every box, or just an extra bios chip for hot swapping.
I see many redundant posts about taking away this and that, adding this and that. It's all great for feed back, but lets be real. For many of you enthusiast they would have to personalize the board per your wants. This won't happen.
I do how ever see the need for a bare bone minimum board, lacking all the bells and whistles to provide nice clean power to the cpu, video and ram. This being for the hardcore OC'ers out there.
Now they could have a deluxe version, that may take away a lil power from the above mentioned. Not to say it will take away much performance. It just may not have the extra umphhh to go as high as the bare board.( all bells and whistles, most likely being integrated into the board.)
If you like all the cables, cards, and add on devices, just make it a starter pack. Sold seperately of course. That way if you have the bare board, but want the add on devices, it's available to you as well.
Just my thoughts!!
-LIS
:rolleyes: :stick: yea right :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindbat
do you know how fkd up it would be haveing 5 X16 connectors? how big do you want that board to be? and did you consider price? :rolleyes:
Ever seen a 7 slots isa mobo, would not be bigger then that, atx form factor. No reason to be pricier because of connector, more trace for lanes so make it 6 layers as oppose to 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by enzoR
DFI LanParty nf 4 = 6 layers board, solid components and to some degree although hardware implemented, already allows assigments of lanes per connectors. Nothing magic or super complicated.
Cost, gimme my board and keep SLI ...$ for $ I bet it comes to similar price, and futurproof / flexible in such a way that I am willing to pay a premium.
Call it deluxe if u want, For a change it will be true!
yeah, agreed here. I like your idea, it would follow the standard ATX format since, its possible for that. But I would rather see something like 2x PCI and then the rest can be PCI-E 16x connector. You would need a RAID card tho that uses 4x lanes. Normally I would think those things would use 1x or 2x. But still a nice idea. Yeah, it would probly cost alittle more, but then again so the DFI LanParty boards. We just have to pay alittle more to get what we want. One of these board like what BlindBat is proposing would be best suited in the poweruser/network arena I would think. That would make one nice Opteron board...:D yeah I like the idea, but i believe I know what enzor is getting at: the market. There wouldn't be much of a market for such a board. There would need to be more support behind such a board before it would make it. So what I'm saying is its a good idea, but it needs more backing.
jjcom
Euuhh... is it not what I asked for from the start ? look at my inital request on previous page.Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcom
High end http://www.intel.com/design/servers/raid/srcu42e/ but x8 ~ mid range would have to be in the 1 gig bandwith rate for dual channels ( 2 X 500 to support for example 2 x U320 SCSI) ..hence minimum 4 lanes x4Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcom
I meant 3 PCI slots...opps typo :(. then the rest as 16x PCI-E slots.
jjcom
Review by ocworkbench. (Jetway A210PDAG - First K8 PCI-E board with HD AUDIO)
Yah not to shabby, them Nf4 are really good boards, but I wouldn't call this an overclocking board tho, not how we have been discussing it anyway, the bios really needs some work :)
hmmm
Yeah - I'm going to look at that some more. If you don't mind me asking, which PCI Express SCSI controller are you using? I'll be switching to PCI-E and am looking. Right now I have 2 15K RPM SCSI drives with LVD adapters running on an Adaptec 29160N on PCI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindbat
The only pci-e SCSI controller that I have found to date is the Intel, and honestly a very big overkill for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAINFIRE
So hopefully this year we will see something in the x4 range at hopefully half price of the Intel, with luck maybe even cheaper.
http://www.intel.com/design/servers/raid/srcu42e/
http://shopper-zdnet.com.com/Intel_R...tag=pl&q=Intel
I'd like a CMOS spring loaded reset switch on back panel. It's hard as heck to reset CMOS with water lines in way and stuff. Plus you got to open case and I drop the stupid jumper half the time and got to shake case to find it.
2. real sound or no sound not this AC97 crap
3. 4V dimm, 2V CPU
4. high end server board jap caps and mosfets or better yet transistors.
5. Copper NB passive heat sink. those NB fans are the biggest POS on planet
I like it. Call it "the big bad ugly", or "all cattle no hat", or "you're too stupid to own this board"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindbat
Yeah - that is a bit pricey:( Hehehe - hopefully they will start dropping in price soon.
i hope SAS controllers will be cheap whenever they come out. (by cheap i mean the 50 dollar range)
Ok, I am definitely late into this game(been spending too much time in the AMD forum), but I hope my comments and suggestions can still be heard, Grayskull.
I am an overclocker, but not hardcore by any means. I will push my rig to its very limits as long as it can stay in my case, run 24/7 and have acceptable noise levels. So already my experiences are about "extreme" performance, but with compromise. Hope this is what my suggestions will be about as well. As fun as it would be, I can't go for extreme benches with the mobo running on phase-change and set the whole thing inside of a General Motors wind tunnel. ;)
Overclocking
First off, we need 4.0 vDimm and 2.0v for the processor. Now here is a thought: Grayskull, you said in an earlier post that implementing 4.0v for the DIMMs is not difficult. This may sound a bit far out, but why not 4.3 or 4.5v with appropriate safety measures? Have a basic 3.0v from the 3.3v line, a jumper to switch to the 5v line to allow for 4.0v, and then an option buried in the BIOS(basically hide it from normal users/have a huge warning pops up that gives the users something like 3 different acknowledgment screens to select "OK" to that they know what they are getting into) that bumps it all the way to to 4.5v? I know this really isn't necessary with 99% of memory, but there are those few BH-5 users that can run over 4.0v without problem. I believe one of them posted here several pages back. Again, the 4.5v is purely a wishful and probably impractical thought, but we DO need to have 4.0 vDIMM and 2 vCPU.
Have the most complete BIOS options possible for overclocking. Let the HTT scale from 200 to 400 Mhz. This is impractical for 1:1 memory, but could be useful for someone out there with a bunch of really unique dividers, which is my next point. Give us as many dividers as you can think of. I won't list them as a lot of great ones have already been posted in this thread. Hey, it can't hurt anything, can it?(seriously though, if allowing such a high HTT could present some form of problem that the ATi engineers are aware of, then by all means DON't do it.)
Another thing that would be immensely helpful it a feature in teh BIOS to save 2 or 3 custom settings if that is possible. This way you could switch between a few completely tweaked configurations without having to manually re-enter all the parameters.
Board and Layout - pass to vendors if no BBA boards(which there should be) :)
The highest quality caps and mosfets available, within some form of reason price-wise. But don't save a nickel or dime a board, we'll pay the difference in thsi area. Basically we need components that will provide ultra-steady power delivery all day long. I know you have said that you guys are already committed to excellent power delivery, so this shouldn't be a problem. Also nice copper sinks for all crucial fets and the NB/SB would be ideal. However, don't let them attach them with crappy thermal pads. If the vendors want to do this, tell them to put the sinks in a bag and let us attach them ourselves. (j/k) ;) No active cooling on the NB/SB unless you all can find a super low-noise yet effective fan whose mean time before failure is ~30,000hrs.(just go quality passive cooling :))
Miscellaneous
-If this chipset does indeed support AMR, give us as much space between the the PCI-E slots as possible.
-Need to have support for SATA II + NCQ(this is a must for me), and options for RAID 0/1/5.
-Keep the key/mouse PS/2 ports. I still use the mouse(personal pref., seems to be faster for games) and I'm sure some ppl still use PS/2 keyboards as well.
-Keep floppy connector as well. Windows needs a true floppy(no USB) for some drivers I believe, plus I still use a floppy drive every single day(college student).
-Support for 8x USB 2.0 and 1 FireWire port. I really see no need for a printer port(can't remember which is which, thats a parallel port, correct?)
-Need to have 100% working PCI locks and such.
-Onboard sound is not needed, however I suspect it will show up for mass-appeal reasons, which is perfectly fine. Same thing goes for onboard video, although I really wish this would be completely left off.
-Leave plenty of space around the CPU socket, at least enough to mount a Thermalright XP-120 w/out cap bending.
-Have a clear CMOS jumper that is easily accessible, and make the pin tall enough to be grasped easily, like an inch or two.
-Have LED power indicators on the board.
-Onboard LAN would be a nice thing, and I believe you already said it was included, but perhaps it did not include Gigabit LAN, but rather just a 10/100 which is just fine by me.
-One of the more unique and awesome ideas to come from this thread that I HIGHLY support is some sort of an integrated RAM cooler bracket. I really cannot stress enough how wonderful an addition this would be, assuming it is implemented in a quality way. A sturdy and well designed bracket that would support a *cough* 120mm fan would put you way ahead of the game. Ok, 90mm or 82mm would be just fine. :D
Aesthetics
Let me say first that how the board looks is obviously secondary to nearly everyone on these forums, however a nice looking board never hurt anything. For this, I say either a red board with black slots, or a pitch-black board with bright red slots. The very best idea, though, was mentioned a few pages ago. That is to create a pure white board, as bright as you can make it, with black or red slots. Not only would this look cool IMHO, but no one would EVER mistake a (insert vendor name here) ATi Xpress200 with anything else. It's instant recognition.
Sorry for the novel, but I take very seriously the chance to give input on a product that I will most likley own in the future, especially when I know for a
fact that my input will be considered and passed along to any appropriate parties. Thanks a ton for all your work Grayskull! you rock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker
:D
Well, well, well said. :toast:
Yea I wish more vendors did public surveys like this to find out what the people want instead of trial and error and making us wait for further revisions.
I strongly agree with the idea for an optional bracket to cool the ram, and the bios options to have a warning systems so that people who dont know what their doing wont burn their boards.
The look of the board, honestly, I could give 2 sh*ts about, but if you want to make it pretty then go right ahead. What I need in a mobo that I forgot to mention is when u plug a usb floppy in have the bios emulate it as if it where on the actual floppy drive connector because windows is retarded and wont work off anything but an actual floppy drive on the FD connector for getting drivers.
What everyone else said + mATX.
-Right now 1*PCI-E & 2*PCI would be just fine.
-Put my vote in for 1.85vcore, 4.0vdimm
-External CMOS reset button (or "INS" reset that always works)
-Integrated 5.1 channel audio chipset with hardware DSP and some Philips QMSS effects processing
-Oh and heatsinks + quality thermal paste on any chip that gets toasty. Thanks. ;) :thumbsup:
My a64 mobo didn't come with working ethernet drivers for winxp-64 so I just dled them from another rig and copied them across with a usb stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by `schr0et
and for the people without another rig?Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwww
its a good idea but a driver cd is just neccesary...
how about make it so we dont have to use a floppy to load SATA drivers?
I'm ready, I'm ready...........
pleaaaase. I dont want to buy Nvidia... I want ATI, now!!!!
yeah, I've used an ATi AXP chipset, a Nvidia AXP chipset, and a VIA AXP chipset. out of them the Nvidia and the ATi were the best. So I'm very interested in this board
jjcom
this is a good thread
my choices, nice and simple
AT LEAST 3.5v vdimm, 1.9v vcore
northbridge auto voltage control
1.8v agp/PCI-E
2x PCI-E 8x, spaced far apart and starting at the highest atx slot position (to allow for aircooling bottom card) ATI and NV compatible
-EITHER awesome onboard sound, or 1 PCI slot for soundcard
integrated dialup modem 56k (for those poor chaps with dialup, now dont lose
a pci slot or have to use com port)
one PCI-E 1x or PCI-X slot, whatever the community wants.
-No exceptions working locks
-Northbridge in top right corner, southbridge in usual pos.
ram parallel to gfx slot, wth cpu above, lots of space abound gfx slots and
cpu socket, and room for small hs or w/c on nb
mosfets and chokes right up top, so the heat travels away from the cpu/ram
sinks on mosfets (dont worry about fan, id rather choose my own)
gigabit lan, at least 1 port, integrated on chipset with minor cpu utilisation
ps2 ports, 6x usb on back, 1 double frontpanel connector onboard (front panel) No legacy ports and no controller chips for stuff, put it all on the chipset
fan ports that speed up entering 3d if possible, slow down for windows (useful for fans that dont fit on your controller, eg mosfet/ram/gfx mems)
1x pata, 1x floppy, 4x sata2/1, power connectors (atx, p4, any dual gpu molexes) parallel to right edge
-A64 and dothan versions, make it do for them what DFI LPUT did for s754
sell it to dfi to produce :D
You've hit the nail on the head! Bigtoe has shown us how powerful this chipset is and that was on a reference board that wasn't at all intended for overclocking. Give it to DFI, and I believe you will have a board that dominates all others, including DFI's own nF4 boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
ATi and DFI, get together on this soon!!! :toast: :banana:
Integrating a modem would be quite useless IMO, the few who need 'em already have 'em.
@Reject, seeing as you want to minimize trace-lenght a NB on the up-right corner wouldn't work AFAIK.
yea, modem = waste of space
but then there wouldny need to be a pci slot which is useless with big gfx coolers, the modem chip would go there. anyway on the dfi nf3 there are heaps of spaces for a small conexant modem, eg. where the empty solder pads for fw/ extra raid chips are
why wouldnt the northbridge be good near the right? because of the agp controller? hmmm...
wat about have the ram above agp slot, sideways, and the nb to the right, adjacent to its nf3/4 position. then the cpu could go a bit higher up and the mosfets along the upper edge of socket and board
If its gonna be an overclocking board, a moedm is a complete waste of space.. :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by reject
Most people using a $900 CPU in a $200 mobo with $250 sticks of ram and a $600 video card or two, usually dont have dial up..... ;)
I'm on dial-up :stick:
A built in modem would be nice but i'm not going to worry about it... especially if its controllerless ;)
i was on dialup not long ago
wat will dialup users do if theres no pci slots?
on the atx design, double gfx with a double slot coolers blocks all pci slots
go PCI-E or use some old/spare machine as the internet gateway.
What is "dialup" in your language?Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
Hehe - j/k
kk, so then we can eliminate all those useless slots
i like the cpu/ram to be opposite of the neo2, with ram underneath, the nb on the right of ram, sb in the usual spot, mosfets on the top edge, and all the connectors including sata on the right
the ram in that position will be cooled by passing air and wont be restrictive
then just 2 gfx slots, wide apart, but not so that an aircooler on the bottom card will be too close to the bottom of case
You probably dont worry about dial-up since you CAN have high-speed, but I leave at 7km of the closest high-speed box... And I'm sure they are some users in this situation too. Don't be self-fish, DFI will try to have important features, and AFAIK, Modem and SoundCard (Most of the times important for Gamers) uses PCI....
i think modem would be very cheap and easy to put on. if i still had dialup i would love that
the thing is with 2x gfx slots and say they both need room for double coolers, with 1 slot space for airflow, that only leaves max 1 slot spare. i would rather have all the crap intergrated and then have the 2nd slot 1 down to have more cooling room.
with sli it is impossible to use overclocked double cooler cards and pci slots, and plus the nb adds a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of heat to the mix, its a nightmare
What I would like to see, for what it is worth:
~ VDIMM powered from +5VDC rail, unmodified selectable to 4V.
~ VAGP adjustable to 2V
~ VCORE adjustable to 2V (assuming A64 platform)
~ High-range of Chipset voltage
~ Consistant and reliable voltage supply to all components
~ Temperature monitering of processor, chipset(s), and also VDIMM/VCORE power regulators
~ Top quality temperature monitering
~ Small overvoltage increments for all adjustable voltages. 0.25V overvolt increments for VDIMM in particular would be very nice
~ Fewer PCI slots - PCI-Express slots that are as far a part as possible
~ No serial ports, or parallel ports
~ No Firewire
~ One motherboard USB header (2 ports), Four USB ports at motherboard rear
~ Four SATA ports
~ SATA RAID is unnessacery
~ Only one IDE controller
~ No floppy port - Including a USB key is a great idea, it is time the standard changed
~ All-black motherboard, no annoying colors
~ An included attachment for mounting an 80mm fan to the RAM slots for active memory cooling (I have made such a thing out of coathanger, that actually looks good - an elegant solution is easy for this)
~ Copper Chipset cooler
~ Rich memory overclocking features (Alpha Timings, Drive Strength/Slew Rate)
~ Power LED, thorough BIOS beep codes for different problems (and a card that explains them)
i tell u what i want:
DFI xpress 200 :D
that is all i trust DFI will make the best like always
please have support for firewire, no legacy support(including 56k), 4V Vcore, ATI SLI support :O) dual 850xt's please
more people use 56k than firewire
ati will take a different approach to sli, hopefully they will make it driver independent and fully hardware, kind of like RAID 0 for HD's, you could have each card drawing every other line, but implement this all in the chipset so even 2d windows is in sli mode.
software solutions are weak, sli looked good on paper until we realized only like 3 games, and bechmarks (surprise) are ati compatible
SLi compatible, even? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsRejection
Anyhow, yes AMR is widely rumored to be fully integreated at the hardware level, meaning any two ATi PCI-E cards(doesnt matter if same speed or not) should work together seamlessly all the time. No driver optimizations needed. :banana:
Oh, and Grayskull are you still reading this? I hope you can still relay and thoughts or requests from those of us who are late tot his thread to the right people?? thanks!
Still reading... ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker
Anyone considered doing SLI vertically rather than horizontally (on the monitor)?
Please use a cable style connector for SLI if one is needed (like voodoo 2) and NOT a baord like nVidia uses!! ;)
Considered looking into Metabyte (or Wicked3D? kinda forget the name its been so long)? Those guys were trying to get SLI between two video cards reguardless of vendor/chipset back in the days of the Voodoo2/3/TNT2..
guys you have to take in consideration that they cant take out all that stuff that waste money. people use ps2 maybe not me but i know people do i agree with alot of your oc'ers needs. but you cant tell Gracyskull we dont need this and we dont need this to save you money its just never gonna happen.
gracyskull i have a question directed to you, is it true that the xpress 200 was tampered with when Anadatech recieved it. people have told me that its not normal to get that high of an oc on it. what did happen?
EDIT: by the way :banana: Happy Valentine's Day :banana: everyone!
EDIT: Do not! put SLI on the the mobo SLI is the stupidest thing made its purely for rich people who is going to at this point by 2 6800gt for the nf4 boards..barely any. also at this point there is not one game that can use true SLI with one video card you can run anygame right now. and for those people saying i will get another 6800gt no u wont there will be a new video card you are gonna want to get. just my 2 cents
hold on a second there champ. First off, this thread is for Ati's bullhead board, which will in no way support SLI. That is nVidia's (failed) attempt at a dual card solution. In terms of real world performance, SLI is largely worthless b/c, as you said, it only works with a relative handful of driver optimized games and (surprise) banchmarking programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t!w00t!
Ati's solution is currently called AMR, for ATi Multi-Rendering. This name could change for production, but thats what ppl are calling it. Now, if ATi wants to get it all right and hit one out of the park on the first attempt(wink wink, Grayskull :)), they should have both cards be run at the chipset level as a I speculated about above. the cards should be any two ATi PCI-e cards, whether of the same power or not, and both should be able to be fully utilized all the time. Again, these are just my hopes and random thoughts, and in NO WAY should this be taken as fact or official word!!!!
Man, dual X800XL's or dual mid-range R520's at a later time would rock my socks off for a (comparatively) reasonable price! Please ATI, do right by us and you WILL have our business. NV's SLI is floundering, swoop in and destroy it.