Winchester 90nm and Prime95

why do you guys always trust only memtest+?
only because it passes hours with flying colors at e.g. 267 means nothing when it comes to prime stability. memtest+ test ONLY memory and memory controller. it DOES NOT test your CPU.
so when you succesfully memtest at 267x9 it doesn't mean that you will pass 12-24hrs of priming. this is absolutely no-brainer ;)
with memtest+ there no maximum heat-up on the CPU.
i suppose when the CPU heats up it WILL affect memory's controller as well since it is on the die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

why do you guys always trust only memtest+?
only because it passes hours with flying colors at e.g. 267 means nothing when it comes to prime stability. memtest+ test ONLY memory and memory controller. it DOES NOT test your CPU.
so when you succesfully memtest at 267x9 it doesn't mean that you will pass 12-24hrs of priming. this is absolutely no-brainer ;)
with memtest+ there no maximum heat-up on the CPU.
i suppose when the CPU heats up it WILL affect memory's controller as well since it is on the die.

---

I was simply confirming that the CPU was stable at a given speed for over 24 hours, 2.4ghz but only with memory async (218.5). Now, one would think that the memory I am using which was tested using the same motherboard over 24 hours with my brothers 130nm NC while priming with 267x9 1:1 3/4/4/8 1t, would be stable with the same settings with my 90nm 3000+. Unfortunately it wasn't. The message here being that memtest is less of a good indicator of on-die memory controller stability and it could falsely lead you into believing the memory is stable, and I am not talking peanuts in terms of HTT, there is a huge gap as to what my memory is capable of and what memtest reported as stable with this CPU. Bottom line, use memtest as a very very rough indicator of what stability is. What I find surprising is that this is contrary to my previous experience with memtest when overclocking different platforms, such as prescott, Athlon XP, P4, etc where the gap between actual stability and memtest stability was much lower.

Uhm, don't got a Winchester myself, but a Clawhammer instead. Reason I post is because, I have similiar problems on my Clawhammer, that has been reported by some on their Winchesters.

At 12 x 250mhz / 1ghz HTL - I can make endless passes of M32 with no problem, can even run lots of other CPU benches at the same time, and it all works. 3DMark and other 3D benches, same thing - all works. But, Prime95 at same settings, with or without memory divider - fails within seconds. I can hold the Blend torture for hours at 12 x 235mhz, but it will fail the custom test, at its default settings. Not only does it fail, it sometimes even gives blue screen to boot. The RAM can pass memory86 tests(usually only use nr 5) at 245 - 250mhz CL2.2.2.5 T1 @ 3.5v, but is unstable at same settings in WinXP. Never done any extensive burn in of the RAM.

Now, here is the really "fun" thing with my Clawhammer:

At 12x200mhz 1:1 CL2.2.2.5 T1 3.5v, I fail a custom 800mb test... Windows gives "error window" and program shuts down. Same results, if I use 1x512mb or usual 2x512mb setup. Basicly, I can bench all day to 3ghz and some beyond, but Prime95 really hates my system. Isn't that what you Winchesters users basicly experience?

Just wanted to add all of this to frey, just to point out that problem could be more than memory controller related, as I believe the 3700+ has the best single channel controller out there. From results above, my controller should suck, but it doesn't as far as anything but Prime95 is related.

I think, at least on my system, that the fault lies beyond the controller. I have a very, very messed WinXP install and the whole PC could use some lovin. I am almost sure(I hope), that Prime95 will run well, when everything is cleaned up. If not, well, I never liked Prime95 much anyways. 32M and 3DMark01 running at the same time, is stability enough for me, as I don't run OCed 24/7 - never will and don't have need for it, as I have enough of stock power for my needs, OCing is just for fun.

Results with my 6800GT(410-420mhz/1100-1120mhz): 29.3k - '01, 13.6k - '03, 5.6k '05, and 30s Pi M1 at 12 x 242mhz. So it doesn't at least, have bad performance. I hope VX RAM will improve the above just a notch to 30k/14k/6k and 29s respectively :)

Here's my response from the Prime 95 author.




Hi,

At 07:22 PM 12/6/2004, alvin hayek wrote:
>I am a member of a computer
>enthusiast forum called xtremesystems.org. We at xs
>strongly believe there is a major compatiblity flaw/
>or hardware flaw on the aforementioned. When running
>Prime95 torture tests on the A64 Winchester (90nm) We
>are experiencing errors at stock cpu speeds. Is there
>a way to revise the software for the new processor, or
>is this definitely a hardware flaw on AMD's part.

There are no known problems with prime95 and AMD64 parts.
You could have bad CPUs, but more likely it is memory. Bad
motherboards,
power supplies, or overheating could also be the culprit.

Good luck,
George

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trans am

Here's my response from the Prime 95 author.




Hi,

At 07:22 PM 12/6/2004, alvin hayek wrote:
>I am a member of a computer
>enthusiast forum called xtremesystems.org. We at xs
>strongly believe there is a major compatiblity flaw/
>or hardware flaw on the aforementioned. When running
>Prime95 torture tests on the A64 Winchester (90nm) We
>are experiencing errors at stock cpu speeds. Is there
>a way to revise the software for the new processor, or
>is this definitely a hardware flaw on AMD's part.

There are no known problems with prime95 and AMD64 parts.
You could have bad CPUs, but more likely it is memory. Bad
motherboards,
power supplies, or overheating could also be the culprit.

Good luck,
George

---

Thats what the sensible people have been saying all along.
Nice to get some confirmation :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dnottis

Thats what the sensible people have been saying all along.
Nice to get some confirmation :)

---

That doesn't confirm anything! He said there are no ~KNOWN~ problems.

:stick:

OMG , people get off Prime's back!
there's nothing wrong with Prime95 that won't let Winnies pass Blend. period.
just look for your problems elsewhere, but not in Prime's code.

This is just silly.

Just because you overclock, run super low latencies or do some other tricks and fail prime95 stress test, it doesn't mean prime95 is the culprit.

Look at the most logical explanation: the hardware is unstable, because it was used over the specified limits (or near it).

Scientific calculation programs work in a deterministic manner. If they fail, they will fail in the same situation always. Not chaoticly here and there.

Hardware that is run out of spec does not behave deterministically. It may run ok for 24 hours and then fail a second run just after the first 15 minutes.

If you want your system to be proven 100% stable, then it neeeds to pass prime95 test through several runs of several hours.

No buts or ifs about it.

If you can present a case, where ALL CPUs of certain type at stock speed ALWAYS fail in the SAME manner (same time/test/calculation instance), then there is a cause to belive that the software could be to blame.

Otherwise, youd'be better off looking at the most logical explanation: it's that instability of the hardware, regardless of how unwilling you are to accept it.

Another issue altogether is to consider whether you think prime95 stability is important for you or not.

But it is a separate issue of WHETHER the system is stable to begin with.

regards,
halcyon

Curious...I installed 2x512Mb VX sticks in my NEO2 (3500+ winny), and I'm having the same problem. Prime fails at stock settings even though I'm Memtest stable at 260x11. Previously I had no problem running 2x256MB Mushkin L2 BH5 at 265x10 or 253x11 (my cpu maxes out at 2.8GHz Prime stable).

Well, these are all good arguments, but no ones knows what the issue really is. When Prescotts (90nm) first came out P95 blend would not run on them. A new revision of P95 came out and guess what? It ras fine. Same goes for P95 and 1gb of memory. It would not run reliably with 1gb and a new revision fixed that.

My point is that we don't know what the issues is. Bottom line is that Winchester 90nm will not run P95 blend relaibly.

I have had it running for 8 hours and it as had no errors. It loads the CPU 100%, so I would say this is a good test.

My setup is MSI Neo2, 3500+ 90nm, OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev 2 @ 2-2-2-10, 200fsb and stock multi. I will report back on Prime95 blend at these speeds.

don't you think that it would be kind of odd that Prime95 would run on overclocked machine but not run reliably on stock machine? i find it really weird :stick:
that's why i would advise to everyone that has this problem to poke around with a multimeter and see maybe at stock settings (after LOAD DEFAULTS) vcore set is just not high enough to run Prime95...

as we speak, i'm on another ~10hr run of Prime95 Blend with vcore lowered to 1.75v REAL and vdimm lowered to 3.76v REAL @ 260x10 6-2-2-2.0 - just about to finish one full loop...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

Well, these are all good arguments, but no ones knows what the issue really is. When Prescotts (90nm) first came out P95 blend would not run on them. A new revision of P95 came out and guess what? It ras fine. Same goes for P95 and 1gb of memory. It would not run reliably with 1gb and a new revision fixed that.

My point is that we don't know what the issue is. Bottom line is that Winchester 90nm will not run P95 blend relaibly.

I have had it running for 8 hours and it as had no errors. It loads the CPU 100%, so I would say this is a good test.

My setup is MSI Neo2, 3500+ 90nm, OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev 2 @ 2-2-2-10, 200fsb and stock multi. I will report back on Prime95 blend at these speeds.

---

Ok, Prime95 blends failed in 4 minutes with the PC3200 Plat Rev2 . This is a proven DC kit and works perfectly in P95 on my DFI 754 rig running both sticks at 255fsb or at 200fsb with the same timings/voltage.

The P95 results are identical to the same RAM/CPU on the GB K8NS Ultra-939 board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

Ok, Prime95 blends failed in 4 minutes with the PC3200 Plat Rev2 . This is a proven DC kit and works perfectly in P95 on my DFI 754 rig running both sticks at 255fsb or at 200fsb with the same timings/voltage.

The P95 results are identical to the same RAM/CPU on the GB K8NS Ultra-939 board.

---

if you're not using DDR Booster checck vdimm with a multimeter. i had this odd issue that without DDR Booster even if i set vdimm in BIOS to 2.85v it would NOT be 2.80v but 2.65v when i run DDR400 6-2-2-2.0!!! it was just fine with 7-3-3-2.0 !!!

andy, what is the date on that winnie?

i've tried with one stick of 512PQI memory but still prime fails in no time.
Said that because some people said that prime95 can fine on winchesters with less than 512mb memory...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beenthere

The latest version of Prime 95 works fine.

http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=22249

---

So basically, this would mean I'm an idiot a few posts back? Right. :(

Sorry trans, I forgot about the total memory usage! You'd think with the clattering of the heads of my hard drive I would have remembered this... Doh!

blend=bad. custom=good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by halcyon

If you can present a case, where ALL CPUs of certain type at stock speed ALWAYS fail in the SAME manner (same time/test/calculation instance), then there is a cause to belive that the software could be to blame.

---

Exactly what the logical people in this thread keep saying. If the majority of people can run their Winchester Prime stable at stock for a few hours, you have already disproved the software conflict. If the majority only get errors when overclocking then the problem is... from overclocking! :stick:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

Ok, Prime95 blends failed in 4 minutes with the PC3200 Plat Rev2 . This is a proven DC kit and works perfectly in P95 on my DFI 754 rig running both sticks at 255fsb or at 200fsb with the same timings/voltage.

---

So the mem controller running in dual channel can't keep up. :shrug: That's not a big jump in logic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byron

i've tried with one stick of 512PQI memory but still prime fails in no time.
Said that because some people said that prime95 can fine on winchesters with less than 512mb memory...

---

Board conflict, bad mem controller or bad stick? I have been having issues with the PQI myself. XP platform would not run it stock stable. A64 CH would not either. Switched the A64 chip and, no surprise the problem fixed itself - so it was a bad memory controller on the first and probably a board conflict on the XP system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tek

At 12x200mhz 1:1 CL2.2.2.5 T1 3.5v "Prime fails"

---

So your memory can't handle 3.5v or just maybe it's damaged from running it at 3.5v You've already said it's unstable in XP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

if you're not using DDR Booster checck vdimm with a multimeter. i had this odd issue that without DDR Booster even if i set vdimm in BIOS to 2.85v it would NOT be 2.80v but 2.65v when i run DDR400 6-2-2-2.0!!! it was just fine with 7-3-3-2.0 !!!

---

its weird but when i set it to 2.85 volts in bios, msi corecentre would record it as only 2.80v!!

strange, whacked it up to 2.85v in coretester and will retest stability now :)

I can prime stable with my 3200 @ 240 x 10 and 267 x 9 at stock volts for 12+ hours. However over 2.5G I can prime for 6 hours, then crap out at 10 mins. If it's the memory controller why can I consistently prime at 267 x 9? As long as my CPU doesn't get over 2.5G it seems to Prime just fine, it has more to do with overall clock speed than the HT. It's once I hit 2.5G that things become unstable, (and it doesn't matter how 250 x 10, 278 x 9) it has nothing to do with the memory controller, the CPU despite what people are saying, is just generating errors once it's clocked too high.

..or it's the chipset generating errors, voltage dips, power issues, memory issues, timings too tight, etc, etc if you are stock clocked and experiencing issues with Prime - or believe it or not maybe it's just a bad CPU. Of the 4 winchester CPUs I've had one had issues priming at stock speeds - the other 3 have not. So was it Primes fault that one CPU had problems, hell no, it was a bad CPU that got RMA'd and the replacement worked fine.

WiCKeD,
my mem is fine and my board, can run dual channel at same speeds no problems.
Must be prime problem, because system is rock solid, can run all benchmark programs etc, or bad mem controller... but if the mem controller is bad, then why it my system is stable?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dnottis

I can prime stable with my 3200 @ 240 x 10 and 267 x 9 at stock volts for 12+ hours. However over 2.5G I can prime for 6 hours, then crap out at 10 mins. If it's the memory controller why can I consistently prime at 267 x 9? As long as my CPU doesn't get over 2.5G it seems to Prime just fine, it has more to do with overall clock speed than the HT. It's once I hit 2.5G that things become unstable, (and it doesn't matter how 250 x 10, 278 x 9) it has nothing to do with the memory controller, the CPU despite what people are saying, is just generating errors once it's clocked too high.

..or it's the chipset generating errors, voltage dips, power issues, memory issues, timings too tight, etc, etc if you are stock clocked and experiencing issues with Prime - or believe it or not maybe it's just a bad CPU. Of the 4 winchester CPUs I've had one had issues priming at stock speeds - the other 3 have not. So was it Primes fault that one CPU had problems, hell no, it was a bad CPU that got RMA'd and the replacement worked fine.

---

Yes that may well be, but remember running at 2.4GHz is not the same as running it at 2.5GHz even if both is set to 200MHz HT as the higher overall frequency pushes memory controller harder.

I agree it's most likely a hardware problem with either the chips and/or the motherboard/RAM combo that just can't hack it above certain speeds.

We should get a clearer picture when people start selling their chips for the newer revision winchester cores come Jan/Feb... :banana:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trans am

andy, what is the date on that winnie?

---

0437 3500+

Remember I m running TCCD at this point. My VX got shipped to my Idaho address and I am in California. OOPS :banana4:

andyOCZ
Will it not pass blend @ stock speeds?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IvanAndreevich

andyOCZ
Will it not pass blend @ stock speeds?

---

No it won't run P95 blend and this is the 3rd motherboard I have had this same processor in an EPOX, GByte and now MSI. I have tried at 200fsb 2-2-2, 200fsb 2.5-3-2, 250fsb 2.5-3-3 with and without the booster, I tried different RAM too. This has to be a CPU/Prime95 issue.

i think this is going to be my last episode of "Prime95 & A64 S939 90nm Winchester" gallery :)
i've been "primed" out of my head recently :D i gave my setup over 45hrs of Prime95 torture within the last two days and i think that this should really convince you guys about one thing...
there is no issue with at least latest batches of Winchester 3200+ on MSI Neo2 Platinum concerning Prime95 stability...

21 hours of Prime95 torture - 2 full loops of Blend and a bit more ;)

260x10=2605MHz @ 1.76v REAL LOAD, DDR520 6-2-2-2.0 @ 3.372v REAL LOAD;OCZ DDR Booster

MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Q47353.1 0440A2 S Taiwan
A64 3200+ 90nm "Winchester" - CBBFD 0441UPCW
Thermalright XP-90 w/ YTech 120mm

CLICK for Full Size Screenshot - 2048x1536 397KB

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...chmentid=20767

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

No it won't run P95 blend and this is the 3rd motherboard I have had this same processor in an EPOX, GByte and now MSI. I have tried at 200fsb 2-2-2, 200fsb 2.5-3-2, 250fsb 2.5-3-3 with and without the booster, I tried different RAM too. This has to be a CPU/Prime95 issue.

---

Andy
I've had 4 Winchesters and one just wouldn't prime at stock either. I RMA'D the CPU for a new one which didn't have the same issue. Maybe you just have a bad CPU - it can happen. These AMD64 parts are so flakey.

Had anyone tried Prime95 with the Small FFT to max the FPU? I could run loops at 2.5G at blend with 1.65v but Small FFT wont run for over an hour at anything over 2.4 Ghz. Geez, these AMD64 CPUs are killing me - they overclock easily but just aren't stable in doing so. I can post at 2.6 GHz but true stability diminishes over 2.4 Ghz. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dnottis

Andy
I've had 4 Winchesters and one just wouldn't prime at stock either. I RMA'D the CPU for a new one which didn't have the same issue. Maybe you just have a bad CPU - it can happen. These AMD64 parts are so flakey.

---

You may be right man. There are quite a few of us with the same issue and many Winnies are the same week. I have yet to really run this thing hard due to work, so this weekend I will check for stabilty and ignore P95.

I have a week 37 Winni 3200+ (bad overclocker :( ). Managed to pass ~16hours of Prime95 blend at 2313 MHz (9.0 x 257) @ 1.575v.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bachus_anonym

i think this is going to be my last episode of "Prime95 & A64 S939 90nm Winchester" gallery :)
i've been "primed" out of my head recently :D i gave my setup over 45hrs of Prime95 torture within the last two days and i think that this should really convince you guys about one thing...
there is no issue with at least latest batches of Winchester 3200+ on MSI Neo2 Platinum concerning Prime95 stability...

21 hours of Prime95 torture - 2 full loops of Blend and a bit more ;)

260x10=2605MHz @ 1.76v REAL LOAD, DDR520 6-2-2-2.0 @ 3.372v REAL LOAD;OCZ DDR Booster

MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Q47353.1 0440A2 S Taiwan
A64 3200+ 90nm "Winchester" - CBBFD 0441UPCW
Thermalright XP-90 w/ YTech 120mm

snip

---

Could you possibly try 2x512Mb modules? I have no problems with Prime either when running 2x256 BH5 (can run 265x10 or 253x11). But as soon as I installed my new 2x512 VX kit, it's not prime stable even at stock (memtest stable at 260x10).

Hi

Well I did a new run and made a screenshot of it

http://www.upit.dk/u/P95-2600mhz.JPG

I have played several hours of Doom3 and running 3dmark too, absolutely no problems. I doubt P95 has problems with Winchesters, but as there are more ppl having trouble I cant say for sure, I have run both small Fft test for 24 hours and large Fft test also 24 hours, just didnt take a screen of it, but I have now :). Ohh yes I use 2x512 Pc 3200 Ballistix


Menty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mentaly

Hi

Well I did a new run and made a screenshot of it

I have played several hours of Doom3 and running 3dmark too, absolutely no problems. I doubt P95 has problems with Winchesters, but as there are more ppl having trouble I cant say for sure, I have run both small Fft test for 24 hours and large Fft test also 24 hours, just didnt take a screen of it, but I have now :). Ohh yes I use 2x512 Pc 3200 Ballistix


Menty

---

What week is your 3200+?

Hi

It says in my sig :) 0433

Menty

You guys should STOP using BLEND. If you want to test memory, test manually by -
1) Select FFT size that doesn't fit into caches
2) Select a LARGER time interval between changing FFT size

Blend tests CPU core as well, while the winches fail on memory. Hence if you want to test the memory controller MOST fully, use the mode that tests the memory only, as outlined above.

Let's say Blend runs for 10 hours beginning to end.. then 1/4 of the time it's testing the ram and the rest of the time it tests the caches, fpu. If you test the memory 100% of the time, it will fail faster.

Hi


Well I wrote I tried the others too, and none of those complaining about prime has talked about any settings special settings in prime. If P95 doesnt fail within 24 hours I seriously doubt its gonna fail ever.


Menty

great, not only do we have 3 "stock" tests, endless combos of CPU's, RAM, and mobo's NOW were going to start CUSTOM settings on P95?!!!

we need to start lowering the amount of variables of this problem NOT adding!

I dont know why so many ppl are so concerned with p95, just dont use it, its that simple.
There are other programs to test stability of your cpu and etc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dnottis

Had anyone tried Prime95 with the Small FFT to max the FPU? I could run loops at 2.5G at blend with 1.65v but Small FFT wont run for over an hour at anything over 2.4 Ghz. Geez, these AMD64 CPUs are killing me - they overclock easily but just aren't stable in doing so. I can post at 2.6 GHz but true stability diminishes over 2.4 Ghz. :rolleyes:

---

I can't even get 2.2 Ghz to run more than an hour with SMALL FFT. Can blend for hours, these AMD64 chips just suck.

Err. this winnie has been priming more than 4 hours... Of course, this is also first time I was able to boot winnie on mach2 without holding breath... Puny 3.0+ with 9 multi... so I am stuck @ 280FSB... lol. Guess 2.53ghz is still decent for chip rated at 1.8ghz...
Correct me if I am wrong but priming at 1.8v only gets me to -51c on evap temp vs newcastle @ 2.95ghz 1.8v which went down to -43c. I am guessing it also runs few degrees cooler than newcastle. Now I am pondering if I should grab 3500+ winnie to replace my dead newcastle since I got it running for one of winnie....

Well maybe here is why... :rolleyes:

http://www.3dxtreme.net/images/oc/chipset.jpg

I am happy it's a Korean, but damn guys....
http://www.3dxtreme.net/images/oc/nf3ultra.jpg


Anyways, I just cleaned and applied Arctic Silver 5. Maybe chipset errors is the reason why I can prime 12 hours, then fail after 15mins. BTW this board was purchased from ZipZoomFly.com about mid november.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dnottis

Andy
I've had 4 Winchesters and one just wouldn't prime at stock either. I RMA'D the CPU for a new one which didn't have the same issue. Maybe you just have a bad CPU - it can happen. These AMD64 parts are so flakey.

---

So prime failing at stock is valid RMA reason I take it, sweet. I am worried if my week 35 will pass at stock, and wont be that bummed out if it doesnt, cause it might be nice to have a later week for better OC. :fart:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stelleg151

So prime failing at stock is valid RMA reason I take it, sweet. I am worried if my week 35 will pass at stock, and wont be that bummed out if it doesnt, cause it might be nice to have a later week for better OC. :fart:

---

If you are paying for a product and not getting what you paid for at stock, then yes I would say that would fall under "defective product" and would be worthy of an RMA. Overclocking something far out of spec and not getting what is expected, say an AMD3000+ @ 2.6GHz, is not worthy of an RMA.

Ive given up on prime personally w/ this chip. Im glad im not the only one. Ive done so many tests, each having different results that I cant even trust prime. What I now do is just loop UT2004 with 32 bots... UT crashes much quicker then other games, especially w/ all those calculations with the bots. Most of the time it crashes within 10-20 min if system is unstable

I can't even run Prime95 at stock speed!!! :mad:

My setup:
MSI Neo2 Platinum w/ BIOS 1.41
AMD64 3500+ Winchester
OCZ 3200 Platinum Rev2 2-2-2-10-1T
OCZ 520W PS

I just spoke with AMD tech support and they claim in their lab they were able to run Prime95 with any 939 motherboards. They do not aware of any issue about Prime95 with Winchester... :stick:

AMD tech support suggested to run this utility first http://users.bigpond.net.au/cpuburn/. Oh well, I guess I will give it a try once I get home from work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [ r2 ]

I dont know why so many ppl are so concerned with p95, just dont use it, its that simple.
There are other programs to test stability of your cpu and etc...

---

Interesting comment you have there...
So I have a new car with 4 doors. And if one of the doors does not open and since I am single and no wife and kids. So I guess I should not care? :stick:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by p0k

Interesting comment you have there...
So I have a new car with 4 doors. And if one of the doors does not open and since I am single and no wife and kids. So I guess I should not care? :stick:

---

That's a poor comparison... it's more like you have a new car with 4 doors, and women and children cannot open them but you can, and since you are single with no wife or kids, you shouldn't care.

Heh.. analogies. They are all false. Forget it :p

ALL
Are many people with MSI K8N Neo2's experiencing these problems?

p0k
Prime fails on what? BLEND. Blend tests memory controller. That CPU burn-in thing tests the CPU core and caches only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IvanAndreevich

Heh.. analogies. They are all false. Forget it :p

ALL
Are many people with MSI K8N Neo2's experiencing these problems?

p0k
Prime fails on what? BLEND. Blend tests memory controller. That CPU burn-in thing tests the CPU core and caches only.

---

Hi IvanAndreevich,
Prime95 test failed on Blend test...
Looks like I will be calling AMD soon to RMA the processor...

Hi all !

will try S&M 1.3.0 utility:

"S&M is a pretty efficient CPU stress-test, which also includes memory tests. The interface is available in Russian or English"

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...64-fx55_7.html

I think is very good. It can burn mine winnie to 59 C, when Prime95 to 55 C...

Helllo guys,

This is worth a try. Download P95 Ver 2.37 from here: http://www.midnightmachine.com/modul...wcat.php?cid=4

This is the last version and not the one currently available at Mersenne which is 2.38. Are we on to something?

Give that a try and let us know how you do. I am running the blend test ATM and it seems to be chugging along happily on my Winnie. :banana: :banana4: :banana: :banana4:

andyOCZ, the version 2.38 doesn't run with your winnie then?
I've tried the 2.36 with same results, going to try 2.37 now.

And about the winnie problem yes i can't run prime95 as well but system is rock stable.

Just tried prime 2.37... same s**hit!
I know the solution for all this mess with the winchesters and AMD 64 bit cpu's generally... sell them and next system will be INTEL.

P95 v2.37 blend is still running and I jhave to go out. Try P95 at 200fsb first. Get that going, then tweak.

doesn't matter man, i've tried all of the above... it's just the cpu.
Although i've found another program that stresses the CPU more than prime, it is called "Toast" :D
Runs fine here... system is rock stable even if prime doesn't want to compensate with my cpu.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

P95 v2.37 blend is still running and I jhave to go out. Try P95 at 200fsb first. Get that going, then tweak.

---

huh, i have: Version 23.8.1 :idea: :confused:

open P95, help, about Prime95...should list version #

My overclock has slowly deteriorated. I was able to prime for 12+ hours at 250 x 10, now that won't overclock for more than 2 hours regardless of the voltage at the same speed. Even 240 x 10, which it primed for 17 hours at stock voltage was ok, now that won't prime. I think this chip is slowly dying - it's a week old. I believe AMD has a real problem on their hands with these chips, I'm with Byron I may go back to Intel, this is just getting ridiculous.

I am in the same situtation as Byron.
Prime95 v2.37 and v2.38 failed within one minute mark.
I am not even overclocking my system. I can loop memtest 1.4 test #5 hours with error free. Ran 3DMark03 and 05 and looping with error free. Pi 1M, 8M and 32M without trouble. Day to day operation is perfectly fine. No blue screen error and I can game HL2 with 6x AA and 16x FA hours with crash free...

I guess RMA is my only option.

So you guys have systems that are in all respects stable... never crash/blue screen doing everything you do on your PC, yet you would still consider RMA'ing the CPU just because prime95 doesn't run error free?

Those of you, having the issues with the blend mode.. Have you, at any point, ran very high volts on the RAM?

dnottis
I think you're jumping the gun. We'll figure this problem out!

p0k
Yeah, if your CPU is a $hitty o/c it's a nice reason to RMA it heh :)

Anyone ever try this app? Hot CPU Tester Pro 4

http://www.7byte.com/index.php?page=hotcpu

Cause at 2.5 I can run it at 1.55v. Prime doesn't have a chance at those settings, yet this seems to be ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Torin

So you guys have systems that are in all respects stable... never crash/blue screen doing everything you do on your PC, yet you would still consider RMA'ing the CPU just because prime95 doesn't run error free?

---

Might be something like good old pentium 90 episode. Intel goofed off, someone found it, there were waves of "RMA" for those who bothered. Majority of people didn't bother and OS was updated "promptly".... Of course, it is not as simplistic as back than to find out what might be causing this things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by p0k

I am in the same situtation as Byron.
Prime95 v2.37 and v2.38 failed within one minute mark.
I am not even overclocking my system. I can loop memtest 1.4 test #5 hours with error free. Ran 3DMark03 and 05 and looping with error free. Pi 1M, 8M and 32M without trouble. Day to day operation is perfectly fine. No blue screen error and I can game HL2 with 6x AA and 16x FA hours with crash free...

I guess RMA is my only option.

---

EDIT: UPDATE: Time to give up. Don't bother with P95 v246 shown below. NO love for the week 37 Winnie with that version either.

Guys, we have only begun to fight! ;)

I went into the nerdy world of the Mersenne Forums and found a version of P95 written and optimized for the Athlon XP. It's new and they said it was beta, but in between the geek speak I figured out it is missing the P4 optimizations. It's version 2.46 (About Prime95 says 24.6) and it's available here: ftp://mersenne.org/gimps/p95v246.zip

Don't give up yet. Please give this a shot. It seems to be doing ok so far on my MSI Winnie combo.

And yes 2.37 died after 3+ hours at 200 HTT for me also.

Ok guys,i've just tried and the 2.46 prime version... same bolllocks.
No more AMD for me from now on.

Thanks,
Byron

why do people need prime95 to be stable? personally i dont run prime95 as an every day app, so i wouldnt care if its stable or not,

i guess i have different opinions than a lot of people. personally i dont run anyway near my max stable clocks everyday, because i feel i simply dont need 2.7ghz of cpu power that my cpu is capable of, when 2ghz gets the job done just fine

0441 3200+ here, no problems on blend mode for 48+ hours. Prime version 23.8.1. 10x250, 1.57 vcore, MSI Neo2 1.5B1, Kingmax 1:1 2.5,3,3,10. Enermax Noisetaker 470 PSU.

Same test fails at 260 x 10 after about 20 mins. Maybe these babies are just more sensitive to heat/high voltage than the 130 process. I guess the electrons are getting too excited and jumping where they are not supposed to jump. I would use this analogy:

Winnies are like married men: when with thier wife of x years they can go for any length of time, but get them near a new hot thing they blow after 2 mins.

Just a thought :)

Also, for anyone serious about this, I would start a correlation chart for hardware/system settings for systems that fail prime. I've noticed a few OCZ PSU's. I thought they and Antec's might have issues with MSI and possibly any 939 MBs? Personally I had an Antec 380 TP that came with my Sonata case that blew right up, no shutdown.

Time to get a divorce me thinks :D
Or bring on the Sledge Hammer!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blinky

why do people need prime95 to be stable? personally i dont run prime95 as an every day app, so i wouldnt care if its stable or not,

i guess i have different opinions than a lot of people. personally i dont run anyway near my max stable clocks everyday, because i feel i simply dont need 2.7ghz of cpu power that my cpu is capable of, when 2ghz gets the job done just fine

---

Standards and expectations, I guess, though I agree with you. If some games were released that could actually challenge or need my 3ghz of CH power, that would another matter entirely :D

As long as I can play games for extended periods of time, its stable to me :)

Ive given up on prime with my winni, as almost every setting dies after 2hrs

I installed my 2x256MB BH5 modules again just to make sure. Prime would fail in less than 30 minutes on this system at stock speeds when using a 2x512MB VX kit (I have a few more 1GB DC kits to try later). Here it is, "blend" stable for 12hrs at 250x11 2-2-2-5 (I haven't turned Vdimm back up to 3.6V after the VX test, so 250-255 is max at 3.3Vddr)

How much volts you had the BH-5's at stock speeds and prime was failing?

I have no problems running Prime on this system with 256MB BH5 modules. It's when I install 512MB modules it gets flaky even at stock speed.

Ok, so it is deffo a cpu issue.

Well guys, after several days of careful testing at 200fsb Prime95 and Winchester A64's (before week 41?) can be called incompatible. We have tried several P95 versions and a beta optimized for the AMD XP CPU, without P4 optimizations.

Some investigation into the issue with AMD may turn up a solution. I will say that AMD has been very good to our overclocking community and we should be thankful for that. :toast:

To address those of you that keep asking why anyone needs P95, the answer is that they don't. The fact that we have a limitation as to what we can run on our PC is the real issue. If I wanted to play Barney the Dinsoaur games and I could not for any reason that would be upsetting.

Now for a reality check:

1) We do know that Prime95 does not run for long on most or all of the "early" 90nm A64's.
2) We don't know if a revision has been made to the 90nm A64, if the CPU's are being "binned" differently (higher scrap rate) or if there may have been a FAB issue causing some of the CPU's to exhibit this behavior.
3) There is the possibilty that something in P95 Blend is "the cause" of this. We may have found a bug in P95 with our extremely accurate and critical 90nm Winnies. :) This might not be such a strech if we do find that all other apps that do heavy mathematical calculations work without fail. I have seem some evidence of this, as many of you have.

Bottom line is we still don't know exactly what is up.

Help me out ladies and gentlemen, please post your 90nm CPU FAB date and if P95 Blend will run. If we can isolate this to a time period that may help.

We also need some suggestions for a replacement stability program for these CPU's. Many of us have doubts as to stabilty, since our main tool is useless. A tool that does heavy calculations under 100% load is needed. A simple "warming" proggie that runs in the background is not at all convincing. We need something that test CPU and memory that we can trust.

Thanks for the help!!!!

The shot I posted above is from using a week 37 3500+ winny, full stepping:

ADA3500DIK4BI
CBBFD 0437VPDW
1102234J40023

It runs fine (and overclocks fine) when using 2x256MB sticks. I have only tried a 2x512 OCZ VX kit (memtest stable up to 260 DC 2-2-2-8 in this very same system), but this fails in Prime even at stock speeds (I'm testing other 1GB DC kits as we speak).

MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Q47353.1 0440A2 S Taiwan
A64 3200+ 90nm "Winchester" - CBBFD 0441UPCW
2x256MB Kingston HyperX PC-3200 (Winbond BH-5)
Thermalright XP-90 w/ YTech 120mm

21hrs Blend stopped by user @ 260x10 6-2-2-2.0 @ 1.76vcore 3.71vdimm

i will test it with my 2x512MB Mushkin Lvl II PC-3500 later on....

so I think with my week 35 3000+ im going to try and run blend for 24-36 hours at stock speeds and volts and if it fails, RMA the chip. Anyone disagree with this, or think I should do something else? Thanks.

I've got issues running SMAL FFT also, crashes within mins. Seems even harder on the CPU than blend does.

http://www.3dxtreme.net/other/3200%20wk41/IMG_0303.jpg

I would think there was'nt anything wrong at all with prime95 just the fact that a64's have built in memory controllers on the cpu means prime can fail for either and it's hard to tell..

i need to up my vcore to reach 250 fsb.. even with a below default speed.

that beta prime95 im running seem's to do one thing different ive NEVER noticed in using prime95 for 3+ years..

blend uses 99% cpu and all your ram.. where as before it would use only a little bit of the cpu and lots of ram..

now it's near 100% both because and i guess? they saw that with the mem controller being on the cpu they need to tax that aswell even when testing memory.. which would make memtest86 useless ?

New Winchesters seem to be doing better than the older ones?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IvanAndreevich

New Winchesters seem to be doing better than the older ones?

---

You had to ask! I just bought a 3200+ Winnie 0441 at Fry's tonight to find out for sure. I need 2 jobs to keep up. ;)

I'll be posting my results soon.

w00t, let us know!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dnottis

I've got issues running SMAL FFT also, crashes within mins. Seems even harder on the CPU than blend does.

http://www.3dxtreme.net/other/3200%20wk41/IMG_0303.jpg

---

Hey was that at 200 HTT or were you speeding when you ran the Small FFT??

I'm running P95 blend on v238 now. Soon we will know. It looks like my s/n is a little higher than yours: 3200+ s/n 1128274K40767

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

Hey was that at 200 HTT or were you speeding when you ran the Small FFT??

I'm running P95 blend on v238 now. Soon we will know. It looks like my s/n is a little higher than yours: 3200+ s/n 1128274K40767

---

Im always speeding :) I'm running mine at 280 x 9 1.55 + 5% right now. As usual SuperPI 32m, Hot CPU Tester 4 (6 hour test) all showed stable - prime blend dumps within 3 hours but Small FFT seems to crash within an hour. At 240 x 10 Small FFT dumped within an hour too. I can blend prime 12+ hours at 240 x 10 so I'm a bit miffed there...

I always run the test with large fft's, it stresses the system thoroughly.
Done 12 hours stable at 242x10 yesterday though, i think the cpu is just not a good overclocker.

Well as I said I picked up a new CPU last night. I found a 3200+ 0441 date code Winnie at Fry's. I pulled the 3500+ 0437 Winnie that was failing P95 blend. I did nothing but swap the CPU and in fact the MSI K8N Neo 2 fired right up into Windows. I ran P95 all night.

See for yourself:

damn that means a lot... crappy cpu's from AMD wtf are they thinking of???
I've also tried 244x10 runs prime for hours ok, dynno that memcontroller might still bed in or something...

edited: cpu stepping is: cbbfd 0431upcw

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byron

damn that means a lot... crappy cpu's from AMD wtf are they thinking of???
edited: cpu stepping is: cbbfd 0431upcw

---

that is quite bold assumption.... i don't think that there was entirely something wrong with earlier Winnies as even yours run Prime95 just fine. i would just narrow it down to some "not so great" CPUs, particular combos (CPU - Memory), OC expectations and OC skills.

I would say that for 150£ or so a chip like this cost it should work even at stock speeds and be compatible with all those different memory's don't you think? :rolleyes:
Intel sells for the same price chips with similar performance and overclockability and so far none of them have reported a similar problem with prime95.

so i believe the only way out for all of those of you that complain about Prime95 problems is RMA.... just send it back and maybe they will accept it and give you newer ones...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

Well as I said I picked up a new CPU last night. I found a 3200+ 0441 date code Winnie at Fry's. I pulled the 3500+ 0437 Winnie that was failing P95 blend. I did nothing but swap the CPU and in fact the MSI K8N Neo 2 fired right up into Windows. I ran P95 all night.

See for yourself:

---

AHH i can't wait for my 3500+. it sucks to because I'm going to have all the parts, minus a heatsink until my RMA get's filled out. DAMMIT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

Well as I said I picked up a new CPU last night. I found a 3200+ 0441 date code Winnie at Fry's. I pulled the 3500+ 0437 Winnie that was failing P95 blend. I did nothing but swap the CPU and in fact the MSI K8N Neo 2 fired right up into Windows. I ran P95 all night.

See for yourself:

---

hate to say it but my 3500 (that wont P95) is a 0441...

3200+ 0431 - Could not past prime at stock speeds, overclocks diminished after days of use.

3000+ 0441 - A real joy in comparison to the last chip. Have not rebooted my computer in a week, including priming for 48+ hours, gaming, burning dvds, etc. Running solid @ 267x9, default vcore.

I think there is a lot of truth to this thread as I have experienced the frustration first hand. The first CPU must of been defective in someway as all other hardware with the exception of the CPU is the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

Well as I said I picked up a new CPU last night. I found a 3200+ 0441 date code Winnie at Fry's. I pulled the 3500+ 0437 Winnie that was failing P95 blend. I did nothing but swap the CPU and in fact the MSI K8N Neo 2 fired right up into Windows. I ran P95 all night.

See for yourself:

---

Now it's time to overclock :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe Camel

hate to say it but my 3500 (that wont P95) is a 0441...

---

It won't Prime at stock speeds? Or are you running a high HTT? So far my results are at stock speeds and memory timings. I did have voltages bumped a bit.

To Answer the RMA question, that would be up to the individual. You guys do what you feel is right.

Yes dnotiss, overclocking has begun. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

It won't Prime at stock speeds? Or are you running a high HTT? So far my results are at stock speeds and memory timings.

To Answer the RMA question, that would be up to the individual. You guys do what you feel is right.

---

andy why not try overclocking?

and i don't know if you saw this but you have been mentioned on hardforum http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=843691

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DevilsRejection

andy why not try overclocking?

and i don't know if you saw this but you have been mentioned on hardforum http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=843691

---

Gotta love that!! Wait till the watchdogs see that. It will be torn to bits in a spin fest. :)

I can only say that OCZ policies are fantastic for the end user. Even I am surprised at waht we will do to make you all happy. We want to be #1 and are gaining ground every day. Hehe

Oh yes, doing 9 x 270 HTT with memory at 1:1, priming as I type. :banana:

andyOCZ
That's encouraging. Now to find a late week CPU..

Joe Camel
That's discouraging. Is that @ stock speeds, or overclocked?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyOCZ

Oh yes, doing 9 x 270 HTT with memory at 1:1, priming as I type. :banana:

---

270 x 9 isn't overclocking ;) Try 260 x 10 1:1 see if she can hit 2.6 GHz! Mine tops out at 280 x 9 1.55 +5%. Or any variation thereof with an overall clock speed of ~2.5 GHz. I can post and run Windows at 260 x 10 but even at 1.55 +10% I cannot prime for more than a few mins.

dnottis
How are the temps?

I'm using the cooling in my sig, the room is rather warm but idle is ~31c and load is about 45c max - the temps have never been an issue with the winnies for me, highest load I've seen is about 52c (at 260 x 10 1.55 +10% which wasn't stable) with idle always between ~31c and ~34c.

I've reached my cpu limit i think... 246x10 prime stable.
Can't do more than that primestable, although it can do 255x10 running windows, games and all.
Seems that it will be up for sale soon 8-).