ok yah i have the first tool, it says flaring tool on the box, so it must make flares :PQuote:
Originally Posted by cold_ice
do i need the second tool at all? or can i get by with just the first for joining tubing?
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ok yah i have the first tool, it says flaring tool on the box, so it must make flares :PQuote:
Originally Posted by cold_ice
do i need the second tool at all? or can i get by with just the first for joining tubing?
Make a pic from your flaring tool with the accessories, than I can say more about it. But normally you only can make flares with it.
ok, will do soon
do i need to get a swag tool?
You don't need it, but it's good to have one. A punch swag tool costs about 10$
I should look like this:
http://www.extremecooling.net/pics/1/1/werkzeug/19.jpg
guys i have a little problem with MAPP, it cannot make tubes red... :mad:
hold it close to the tubing, and heat up the tubing for like 20-30 secondsQuote:
Originally Posted by Malachia
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky
hem...heat up??? sorry english is not my best subject :p:
[italian help mode ON]
scaldare intorno al tubo, qui c'e' un altra brazing guide: http://www.jwharris.com/jwref/procs/
[italian help mode OFF]
if you need help my friend, you have only to call me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimas
:p:
Mapp vs. Propane is like night and day. I can't imagine O/A.
Mapp should do just fine from my experiance so far, I heated up an entire 3/8" to 1/4" brass flare union in very little time. I don't see the need for an O/A other then convienance.
I mean most of us are building DIY systems because we don't want to shell $500-800 on a vapochill/prommie. So a $200-600+ torch is usually out of the question. Guess I'll have to put up a mapp video one day.
i will built a statua (hem....things like the liberty one in new york :D) for youQuote:
Originally Posted by Newb101
:p:
i have a question.....dont laugh! - well not yet... :p:
is it possible that a better connection can be made if you had one part cooled and the other end hot?
you see in some manufacturing processes, they heat up one part of metal (so it expands) and have another peoce of metal (whic is cold and so contracts)
when they attach the ends together (e.g in railway wheels, the axle is cooled and the wheel is heated so when they put the two togethwr, they form a very tight fit)
so my question is - can this thing be done or applied to brazing of copper pipes?
and so get better connestions and less chance of leaks :stick:
now you can laugh :ROTF:
Thats a good question why would we laugh? I don't know the answer though sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by bxa121
i dunno, i guess i must have missed something glaringly obvious..
anyways i have another question...
copper is a good conductor right?
so why are we using it on the suction line?
wouldnt it be more appripriate to use a material that was less conductive (has to be brazable of course)
and if we had less surface contact with the insulator then there would be less heast loss through the insulator.
but im not sure,
if you have air in the spaces then you get water and eventually corrosion and stuff.. i dunno, just thinking...
Doesn't really matter. In series, you add thermal resistance. Theres no limit on how high you can get it by just adding more. So instead of looking at exotic and expensive materials with tiny increases in resistance, you can just choose the correct amount of insulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by bxa121
Its really just the thickness that counts, not the surface area. The surface is all at room temp, so theres almost no convection anyway. At least not if the insulation is good enough anyway.Quote:
and if we had less surface contact with the insulator then there would be less heast loss through the insulator.
but im not sure,
if you have air in the spaces then you get water and eventually corrosion and stuff.. i dunno, just thinking...
Where can a good Oxy/Acetylene setup be purchased and how much do they cost?
My Oxy/Acet Harris torch.
http://www.snt-systems.com/tommy/torch1.jpg
Here is one of my Brazes with 15% silver rod's
http://www.snt-systems.com/tommy/braze.jpg
And here is a nother braze.
http://www.snt-systems.com/tommy/braze2.jpg
Here is a full on flux free copper to copper braze that i did a few night's ago.
http://www.snt-systems.com/tommy/copperbraze.jpg
My torch was over $1000 with all the tip's and the cutting outfit, my oxy/fuel reg's were $200 USD a piece and all my tank's (4 acet 4 Oxy) i have about $500 in them. BUT u can get a good mickey mouse setup for about $300.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
With any setup it's better to have the flash guard's on the low side of the regulator....atleast that's what my book,and they told me for the past 6 year's while welding with Oxy/Acet Oxy/fuel system's and such.
In response to your question after that (didn't want to add the big quote), I don't know how you'd manage to keep one of the pipes cold inside the joint during brazing. In order to make a fit you could do that, but I'd rather grind the diameter down slightly. A fit that tight might not fill properly. But if not, you can heat up the outer pipe and when hot insert the other tube.Quote:
Originally Posted by bxa121
sell that might work for a decent connection but prolly wont hold anything near the pressure we are using. btw oxy-mapp is realy good. could i use a oxy-accetylene torch head on my mapp and oxy bottles? i dont see a problem seing as the misture is correct, iam just maing sure :D
A good rule of thumb is 1/4". Thats the minimum length of tubing you should ever braze inside the connection. If you've got a quarter of an inch, it'll hold. If you can't get at least a quarter... then I wouldn't use it in a refrigeration system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSU
If it will fit then yes u can..Problem with MAPP Gas is u dont get verry much of it, for about $300 u can get a good Mickey Mouse Oxy/Accetylene cutting/Brazing setup and u wont have the need to preheat your evap's on a propain hot plate any more as the accetylene is far hotter then MAPP
mapp-oxy is within 300 degrees F of oxy-accetylene
http://bernzomatic.com/bernzomatic/c...parisons.jhtml
my mapp bottle has lasted me ~6 months, theres a LOT in each bottleQuote:
Originally Posted by BB mods's
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky
around 6h at full "speed" !!!
Does anyone in here Nitro Purge while they braze?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky
Iv brazed and welded with allmost every thing there is and u dont have enuff Mapp fuel in each bottle to last u 6month's..6 hour's is clsoer to the limit on the tiny bottle's.
Yes i have used a nitrogen purge when iv brazed and welded,work's good to help clear out all the extra gases in the system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSU
Yea...but when it comes to holding a far hotter flam longer and applying the heat faster Oxy/acet work's much MUCH better.I have my shop and year's of service to show for it...that and u go in the hole buying little bottles of MAPP gas..the cost of a good oxy/Acet setup is well worth it.Now if u could get Mapp in a 60NL or something then yea,Mapp would be good.Got to love teh Tripple bonded carbon that is Acet :D
Was curious if anyone did. Was going to reccommend that it be done. It prevents oxidation inside the tubing. Meaning no flaky stuff clogging up your lines and messing up your compressor, and contaminating your oil and refrigerant. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BB mods's
You are correct Sir.It also help's to prevent a flash back if u use a flamable gas like r-290 in your system and have to fix a part of it.
One of these days at work I'm gonna get out the boroscope and we're (engineers and I) are going to inspect just how well Nitro Purging works, and just how much flow we need. Alot of people that do the brazing don't think it works. Should help to prove it to them.
You dont need alot of flow. For these small systems 10cfm should be enough. Or a couple Water Collum Inches
I just noticed that the video still was at my very old webspace, to bad, i didn't saved it and my harddrives crashed.
I will record a new tomorrow, if there are no more objections of the used method.
To Braze Stainless steel to copper, do braze like normal except use the high silver rods?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
Is there any other reccomendations?
Realy only want to heat up the copper when doing this. However what they say and what accually works isn't alway the same thing.
For copper to any other metal, besides Al. I've found the flux coated rods to work the best.
Ya,
Thats the way I was going to go. I'll be brazing SS Parker fittings to copper in the near future, so was going to use the silver blue rods that came with the torch. I believe it'll work fine.
RussC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf
The video was about how to light the torch.Quote:
Originally Posted by johann
I open oxigen first, add acetylene/ethyne and then light it.
Stainless steel connections are simple. Flux the joint real well even on the outside to prevent it from carbonizing on the outside (it looks better). Coat the silver rod with flux (its cheaper this way since you don't have to buy flux coated garbage.)
Heat the copper and apply the filler while applying heat to the steel. You do actually want the steel to glow red, but be careful because it will heat up REALLY fast. Keep that heat off of the steel until you're ready with your filler. Apply quickly, draw it in, and take the heat away when filled. Shouldn't take but a second to fill it since I gather its a small joint, right?
As for lighting the torch... that should be obvious. Gas, then oxy. Of course, if you want some fire crackers, turn the gas and oxy on then light :p POP! hehehe
why don't people just read the manual of their torch how to light it? :) In europe most torches should be lit like sidewinder does it, first oxy then fuel. Why? well the torch design is different. these torches use the oxygen flow to suck out the fuel. "translated" from dutch we call it an Injector torch. Just make sure the fuel hose is pressurised when you open the fuel knob on the torch or you'll get oxy in the fuel hose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie007
In the USA you apperently work with a different design torch, that's all. Now nobody can argue about it anymore and we can all enjoy sidewinders new clip ;)
The evap brazing videos would be more than welcome too and glad you changed your mind :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
Well here in Portugal everybody lights the gas first then opens the Oxy
the only problem with that is you get that black carbon soot floating around. Once you "know" your torch you can just crack the o2 , then turn the gas on , then strike. No "floaties" in the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster
Yep. Acetylene tends to smoke alot on its own :)
Woah, took long time for me to understand your replys, my english gone really bad.
Manual? haha, i never had saw a manual for a torch ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_road
You may be correct with different types, never thought about that.
Im thinking of writing a howto for building a cooling unit for a german forum, maybe i could make a few videos and pictures for this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowRun
Well, years ago this also was the how to method in germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster
we learned at school to open up the acetylene and oxy at the same time,
little bit of acetylene and then light it up.
lighting the acetylene without oxygen can cause cancer in long period.
thats what they learned us at school:)
never had any problems with this method.
:)
After reading almost all 6 pages full of posts, some comments first:
I was taught to turn on acetylene first, light it (you do see soot coming out, that's why you point it away from you)
open up oxygen slowly and very carefully, the flame will get shorter and brighter, and hotter :P
fine tune the flame so you get only 3 and very distinctive flame parts, the cone, the hottest area, and the colder but somewhat brighter area.
I think all tourches should be the same, in the americas and europe, because you're using pressurized gas not an airbrush, so oxygen isn't needed to draw acetylene out. Having a mixture of acet. and oxy. in a closed chamber gives a higher chances of flash back pops resulting in dead flames.
still have some questions:
When purging with propane, do you light the outlet on fire or vent it; and how to know when to light it (if that's the case)
For brazing rods, is there a list of adhesive strength on copper to copper and on copper to steel?
Is a welding machine good for sealing 2 copper pipes?
maybe you think all torches should be the same but they aren't. the reason why some torches are designed to let the oxygen suck out the acethylene is because you can set the acethylene at a much lower pressure reducing the risk of something going wrong with it. every torch has a chamber in which acethylene and oxygen are mixed.
On my torch the oxygen valve has to be opened first too, and then Acethylen.
WOW... I went to use a bigger, meaner, stronger torch today... took me 30min to braze a desuperheater to the condensor :eek: lol the copper kept melting and steel n' copper doesn't heat up at the same rate...
Question:
What should I use as a heat shield when brazing the compressor?
In above scenario, subject heat only to copper part about half an inch away from steel part... steel part hold heat much more than copper so you need to apply less heat (pretty much heat flowing from copper is good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrilla
Hmm... wet rag of tower or there are those gel sprays and clay things that absorbs heat. You Really DON'T need one for compressor though... there are even some painting around compressor which could catch fire I think if you have to worry about that.
Yep, I figured. (Flux and) Heat up the copper first, when it gets red, heat both the copper and steel. They will both get glowing red very soon, apply 45% silver rod and let it flow :D
The new torch is pretty hot, so I want to protect everything for safety reasons.
Is this Bernz-o-matic oxy torch set good for brazing? I can use propane to heat pipes up to dark red and use this to braze, no?
http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/7...cc34eb94za.jpg
I have that set up and it works great. the only downfall is the oxygen goes relatively quickly and is about $9 a bottle, other then that its great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrilla
It's $12 a bottle here, but a few joints shouldn't be a problem, thanks for the input!
Hello there :cool:
COuld someone give me an idea of how can i braze the cap tube too the filter please? i've tryed, but the captube continues to be seeled after the brazing :mad:
Push the captube bout a half inch or so into the filter/drier.
UPS :S
GOD I'M REALLY N00B!! lol
tnkx once again
Hey there,
I'm planning on making my own VGA tube. My idee was to use an alu heatsink and braze some other metal plates on it resulting in a cube tube design. I know, it's getto, but it will cost me only some gas.
I saw the movie a few pages ago, it looks easy, but... is it easy i.r.l.?
People told me that ist's not. Any knowledge to share about this, I'm a virging when it comes down to brazing/welding. I have a brazing set available, and also a soldering set. My thought was to heat up the base with a coocking plate to make it easier brazing.
your Idea is more complex than you realize. .......aluminium is usually joined with a MIG or Tig welder.........gas welding, well as you heat your aluminum it will be there one second and in a instant it will be a molten Blob......
Also joining dissimilar metals can not always be done so simply,especially aluminum,reconsider that choice for copper or be happy with a all aluminium tube. You just say "other metal plates"
I agree with wdrzal, although aluminum can be brazed together, it's very difficult, and mostly used for production parts with very well controlled furnaces. Usually the filler metal melts only about 30F to 100F lower temp than the alloy, and some alloys like 6061 which is very common for a machined part melts at a temp very close to the filler metal. I know some guys that can do it, but they are professional automotive prototype guys, brazing aluminum by hand I end up with a melted part about half the time, it's just too difficult. Copper is lovely to braze, and it has better thermal properties.
I've done some reading too, it really seem that I will not be able to do this. No tools/skills. Damm, I allready prepared that Alu heatsink :s
Ah well, maybe I can modify it for using it as memory heatsink, allthough most part of it is not usable anymore.
I've a D-Tek Whitewater wich had his best since a while, maybe I'll use that thing to build my tube. Thx for the info. If you're interested in the result, visit the LN2 section of this forum once in while, I have until newyear to finish this project (it will be used for a local VGA OC competition).