I heard a shipment left Sunnyvale on Friday, heading for Newegg........
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I heard a shipment left Sunnyvale on Friday, heading for Newegg........
Lastviking, here is that 230fsb bench I promised. Are you sitting down? Look at that efficency! 97% LOL
I ran it at 230 x 10.5, your system will do that I'm sure. Later!
Grrr
K here goes mine with bh5(i will make one new also @ same cpu mhz for you later and with NF2 drivers + GFX drivers installed)Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
Lastviking, here is that 230fsb bench I promised. Are you sitting down? Look at that efficency! 97% LOL
I ran it at 230 x 10.5, your system will do that I'm sure. Later!
;)
CPC:Enabled
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfold...isoftcpcon.jpg
CPC:Disabled
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfold...softcpcoff.jpg
To bad i take you with CPC:disabled :D . But think i will lose when i install NF2 drivers and Gfx driver...:stick:
Hmm, let me see.... you are at 2530mhz, no? I was at 2420mhz, so I beat you!!!! LOL
Post a bench at 2420mhz and show me a CPU-Z, OK??
Thanks
Yes, this has been said a million times, but I don't understand why every manufacturer would insist on using them given it does add cost, if there were truly no benefit or worse yet, it harmed performance.Quote:
Originally posted by STEvil
Question: Still using crappy heatspreaders?
I have no love of heatspreaders.. not one I have ever laid my hands on has every worked worth its make... and this goes for all manufacturers ;)
Ryan, what is your opinion about this?
I think heatspreaders make a small dif in performance
I also think that our vendors would have a cow if we removed them to reduce cost.
For the worse, in my experience.Quote:
Originally posted by ryanpgroovy
I think heatspreaders make a small dif in performance
Your joking, right? Surely your vendors would be overjoyed at selling high performance Ram for less?Quote:
I also think that our vendors would have a cow if we removed them to reduce cost.
sorry no joke cactus , we tried to market high performance product with no heatspreader before , it was an utter failure , as remember our average buyer is not as informed as the wise people here at extreme
Exactly, if you put up the same stick of ram for sale with, and without a heatspreader, right next to each other, the one WITH will sell every time.
Does this mean XS members can get special dispensation to remove their heatspreaders without voiding their warranty?:D ;)Quote:
Originally posted by ryanpgroovy
sorry no joke cactus , we tried to market high performance product with no heatspreader before , it was an utter failure , as remember our average buyer is not as informed as the wise people here at extreme
Well its one thing to slap a bar of metal onto the chips, and its another thing to actually design one with FINS that would actually help disappate heat and not just cause heatsoak.
There is potential in the idea but I haven't seen anyone come up with a decent solution yet, other than Kingmax using BGA and just doing away with the spreader alltogether.
that would really increase cost as fined heatsinks cant be stamped , the have to be extruded, bonded or skived , which makes them as expensive to make as a CPU sink
It's another thing to slap a metal bar across the chips and put an insulator between the chips and the metal bar though. If heat Jackets are to be used effectively then a more efficient design is needed.Quote:
Originally posted by Soulburner
Well its one thing to slap a bar of metal onto the chips, and its another thing to actually design one with FINS that would actually help disappate heat and not just cause heatsoak.
There is potential in the idea but I haven't seen anyone come up with a decent solution yet, other than Kingmax using BGA and just doing away with the spreader alltogether.
Isn't that what I said? ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Cactus Jack
It's another thing to slap a metal bar across the chips and put an insulator between the chips and the metal bar though. If heat Jackets are to be used effectively then a more efficient design is needed.
Not exactly, no. I expanded on what you said.Quote:
Originally posted by Soulburner
Isn't that what I said? ;)
ok guys ,
I will work on a more effective solution and try to get it into production
Yeah, I want a phase change head on every chip!:wierd:Quote:
Originally posted by ryanpgroovy
ok guys ,
I will work on a more effective solution and try to get it into production
I find pushing some cool air over the dimms with heatspreaders helps a ton, much better than having bare chips.
$299 at the egg. VERY tempting.
What timings are you using on the new PC-3700EB stuff compared to the 3200EB? Im trying to future proof as possible since this ram will be going into a new 939 mobo with PCI-e.
I find leaving my computer off is the most effective cooling solution! ;-)
Off? What's that?Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
I find leaving my computer off is the most effective cooling solution! ;-)
phase change on each chip eh
Workin on it...
:-D
build small foam dam around dimms and fill with DI.... no biggie....I'd do it :D
C
its getting interesting in here eh
NOT
I wouldn't put it past them.Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
NOT
hmm , dont put it past me ;-)
If I didnt have to keep the heatspreader on my KHX3000 stick to sell it, i'd take it out to the shop and take a pic of how to make a proper one ;)
hehe
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfold...tcpcon2416.jpg
CPC:Disabled
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfold...cpcoff2416.jpg
:rolleyes: . K to bad i losed 1% after install of nf2 drivers and gfx drivers. (the lower cpu speed don´t give me lower score). I think i trade this bh5 sticks for some EB killer sticks :D . But i keep the HyperX 2x256Mb - bh5 sticks the like CPC:Enabled and good for 283fsb+ ;)
Sry for big pics "lol"
Is there a abit NF-7 bios that allows CPC to be disabled
Isnt it just the CPU interface option in the NF7 bios?
Nope, it's similar to the 1t command in VIA boards. Command Per Clock is a chipset timing thing.
phase change on ddr!! hehe now that is funny!;)
As Tony said, a nice fan blowing over the ram with heatspreaders does wonders. My temp gauge shows a nice drop in temps with the fan versus without.
BTW Ryan has anyone tested the EB on a gigabyte K8npro? If not I have one coming with a 3200+ ! I know silly me with NF3 250 and S939 so close, but I just couldn't resist the A64 temptation anymore!:) Looking forward to seeing the EB fly in it.
No. There's none :(Quote:
Originally posted by ryanpgroovy
Is there a abit NF-7 bios that allows CPC to be disabled
Maybe one of you guys can go ask tictac if there'll be a possibility...
Some impressive bandwidth efficiency there in comparison to BH5 on NForce2, looking very promising :)
ryan, I sent you a PM regarding EB memory a few days ago, did you get a chance to have a look at it?
sorry just replied
dumb question... but what is CPC? I've seen it so many times.. but I never knew what it means... Any one? thx
Command Per Clock. Much like CPU Interface or 1T/2T for VIA platforms.
:-)
Been playing with a VTT modded (madcat fix) max3 today.3500EB with strengthened DRam refresh and the 667 strap.CPU-Z shows 5:4 but its 1:1 ;)Unbuffered
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.leach...3-667strap.JPG
Wow. :slobber: With these timings I could live ;)Quote:
Originally posted by bigtoe
Been playing with a VTT modded (madcat fix) max3 today.3500EB with strengthened DRam refresh and the 667 strap.CPU-Z shows 5:4 but its 1:1 ;)Unbuffered
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.leach...3-667strap.JPG
But not with less tight ones :D
Well with just a VTT fix this is right on the edge for this board.3.3V would get me 4k Unbuffered im sure but I came pretty damn close.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.leach...ots/258fsb.JPGhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.leach...ots/259fsb.JPG
If I can get the room a lot cooler that may help also.667 strap used throughout.
What's a 667 strap? Also, I'm looking to run good timings, at least 250 fsb, in DC, at minimum volts (I can't afford to fry anything right now), what would you guys recommend? I was thinking 2x256MB OCZ PC3500 EB, looks amazing, seems even 270 fsb at 3-2-2-11 might be possible if I went up to 3.1v (which is about as high as I want to go, even though I have an infinity). Or should I try and get some BH-5? Or stick with my BH-6?
I believe bigtoe is reffering to the CPU/memory divider on the board. It's reffered to as a "strap". You didn't mention the motherboard you are running. THe EB RAM is highly compatible with most boards. The EB will overclock better at lower volts than most BH6. BH5 is just outrageous in price right now. The EB make a great alternative.
The EB may be a good fit for you. Even with BH-5 you're NOT gonna do 270 on the infinity... but 270, 2.5-2-2-x would be REAL fast, certainly faster than using a divider and running 2-2-2-x.Quote:
Originally posted by Atilaptops
What's a 667 strap? Also, I'm looking to run good timings, at least 250 fsb, in DC, at minimum volts (I can't afford to fry anything right now), what would you guys recommend? I was thinking 2x256MB OCZ PC3500 EB, looks amazing, seems even 270 fsb at 3-2-2-11 might be possible if I went up to 3.1v (which is about as high as I want to go, even though I have an infinity). Or should I try and get some BH-5? Or stick with my BH-6?
C
curious Tony, wouldn't 3-2-2-7/8 be faster than 3-2-2-5 for IC7 Max3 ?
So what are you saying? That the Infinity won't be able to do it? Or that the EB could, but not he BH-5? I'm hearing, "Get the EB and sell that crappy BH-6".:DQuote:
Originally posted by charlie
The EB may be a good fit for you. Even with BH-5 you're NOT gonna do 270 on the infinity... but 270, 2.5-2-2-x would be REAL fast, certainly faster than using a divider and running 2-2-2-x.
C
I seemed to get the best benches on Intel with TRASat 5. I will look again and see if there is a sweet spot i missed but i doubt it.Quote:
Originally posted by eva2000
curious Tony, wouldn't 3-2-2-7/8 be faster than 3-2-2-5 for IC7 Max3 ?
I haven't heard what bh-6 can do, pump them full of volts and tell us. Last viking did over 290fsb, and that was with 1.9vdd so the infinity won't hold u back the ram however for tight timings need mega volts.Quote:
Originally posted by Atilaptops
So what are you saying? That the Infinity won't be able to do it? Or that the EB could, but not he BH-5? I'm hearing, "Get the EB and sell that crappy BH-6".:D
Maybe someone could buy some low latency modules and test the board's capabilities.
Well if you guys need someone to test BH-6 on an Infinity, I'll be glad to do it:)
Already tested with low latency modules i don´t get any higher...(Adata PC4000).. So the board is maxed around my fsb.Quote:
Originally posted by megatron
I haven't heard what bh-6 can do, pump them full of volts and tell us. Last viking did over 290fsb, and that was with 1.9vdd so the infinity won't hold u back the ram however for tight timings need mega volts.
Maybe someone could buy some low latency modules and test the board's capabilities.
I've tried about every combo pssible I think and 2.5-2-2-5 is best for my setup. I lose a bit if I go up to 6 or higher (TRAS). Although at 2.5-3-2-6, performance is still really great. Thankfully though I don't have to lossen up that much unless I go past ddr460+ :)Quote:
Originally posted by bigtoe
I seemed to get the best benches on Intel with TRASat 5. I will look again and see if there is a sweet spot i missed but i doubt it.
Still lovin' the EB!
Quote:
Originally posted by EnJoY
I'm just waiting for the egg to stock them. Excaliber has the price way to high for me atm.
8 days later:Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
I heard a shipment left Sunnyvale on Friday, heading for Newegg........
$293 for 2x512 3200EB at the moment. I'd say thats an OK deal when you look at the prices of like.. every other 1GB kit of 3200 on Newegg. $385 for Crucial? $385 for Corsair LL.. $345 for Mushkin.. Or say.. $208 for ONE 512 stick of Corsair C2 v1.2. Must be lots of typos. link
Even the 3500EB is the cheapest out of all the 3200 there. Actually all the 3500 1GB's on Newegg are cheaper. What's that about?
eXcaliberPC has the 3200 and 3500 for about $15 more, and is still the only place I've seen with 3700.
I've yet to hear what chips are used on these EB modules. Who's the chip maker?
I don't think they have chosen to reveal that yet. It'll leak sooner or later but IMHO they (OCZ) deserve a little more time before some other company starts trying to raid their sources or copying their tech. But it's just a matter of time.Quote:
Originally posted by Kalway
I've yet to hear what chips are used on these EB modules. Who's the chip maker?
EB tech works, regardless of who supplies the chips.
Is there a side by side performance comparison of EB vs. BH5?
Or is the point of EB to be able to scale better than BH5 w/less voltage?
I'd like to see a side by side comparison of voltages ... benchies of the highest each do at 3.0v, then 3.2v, etc...
3-2-2-5 259fsb took 3.2V on my max3 with the 667 strap.
If you have Bh-5 side to side with EB
I think Bh-5 might perform better under some circumstances
I would not replace your current bh-5 with these unless your having trouble with them ,
If you have CH-5 these definetly are better
The idea being that these are an alternative to something that can no longer be found
I have posted side by sides at 235 1:1 on an Intel rig. Basically it's a win some lose some game, but only a few points in between.
Like Ryan said though this EB is a great alternative.
oh by the way. Thsi EB saved me from a head ache last night.
I just got my A64 3200+ and my K8Npro hooked up, and I tried my pc3200 XMS in first since the board's vdimm is modded to the +3.3v line. Funny thing is I couldn't overclock one bit. I decided to try my mushkin, and it was the same. Even when using one stick.
Well, I said lets throw the old EB in. If that doesn't work, I'll start trying my 256mb sticks. Well, low and behold, the board is stable again, and I am currently running 240 HT.
For some reason where the bh-5 was holding back, the OCZ EB let me go. Very cool!
Sweet!
Likwid, it's good to hear those results as this was one of my primary reasons for grabbing some EB, that being a future upgrade path to A64 with the same ram that is giving me great results now on my P4 system. Glad 2 hear that compatiblity is there like I've heard it was.
=)
Awsome guys!!
LikwidKool; that's what we have been experiencing also. The compatability factor of the EB is fantastic across all platforms.
Let us know your long term results.
Andy, should that trend continue with the new 939 boards coming? I know they're not out yet, but I'm just wondering if you guys have been able to do any early testing or if there are any reasons you see that 939 might be problematic with this first generation EB memory.Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
Awsome guys!!
LikwidKool; that's what we have been experiencing also. The compatability factor of the EB is fantastic across all platforms.
Let us know your long term results.
Thanks.
I wish we had a Socket 939 CPU. A board would be nice too. Our partners are not ready yet, Delays...Delays....
Oh well, keep us updated! =)Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
I wish we had a Socket 939 CPU. A board would be nice too. Our partners are not ready yet, Delays...Delays....
Thanks. :banana:
Actually I think the boards are the major delay
now thats good to hear. ive been sitting at stock speeds for a month now just waiting for the nf3 250's to come out. im hoping they run 2x512 without any problems. seems a64 has been plagued with this problem. ive had the shuttle and gigabyte boards and neither will run my 1gb bh-5 sticks anything over stock speeds.Quote:
Originally posted by LikwidKool
oh by the way. Thsi EB saved me from a head ache last night.
I just got my A64 3200+ and my K8Npro hooked up, and I tried my pc3200 XMS in first since the board's vdimm is modded to the +3.3v line. Funny thing is I couldn't overclock one bit. I decided to try my mushkin, and it was the same. Even when using one stick.
Well, I said lets throw the old EB in. If that doesn't work, I'll start trying my 256mb sticks. Well, low and behold, the board is stable again, and I am currently running 240 HT.
For some reason where the bh-5 was holding back, the OCZ EB let me go. Very cool!
my prommy just sits here doing nothing :( im waiting and waiting for a64 boards that will work with 2x512 of bh-5. if the new boards dont i sure hope these new eb modules will shine new hope into this problem :)
when you get done playing with those sticks, make sure to throw them my way ;) i sure would love to torture a set :p:
:toast:
Any more word on how these sticks are performing? I'm thinking about getting some of the PC3700 EB to run on my forthcoming MSI Neo Platinum NF3 250 board with a 3200 CPU+, what realistic max FSB and timings do you think I can push them to with 2.85v?
Do they scale well with more volts?
Im quite excited about this RAM if it can get me very high FSB (260+) with decent timings and low volts...
:D
It does scale well with high volts , we are about to begin nforce 3 250 testing with it here
Andy, you're totally spot on about the CPC thingy :)Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
Turning CPC off slows the AGP and affects all performance. It's like the old 1t command on VIA baord, except that on NF2 boards it's normally enabled. DFI just allowed us to turn it off, to run 2 x 512mb stick real slow. (LOL) Memory bandwidth in Sandra is not affected. All else is tho.
I reviewed the NF2 B on cluboc.net and wrote a boatload about performance and did a tuning guide. Look in the archives under DFI. I know this board pretty well ;)
Sandra may give you higher BANDWIDTH results with 235MHz CPC Off, 2,2,2,2,11. But 210~MHz CPC On 2,2,2,2,11 will at least MATCH it in everything else ;)
Command er Clock is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as the CPU Interface option on other NF2 boards.Quote:
Originally posted by EnJoY
Command Per Clock. Much like CPU Interface or 1T/2T for VIA platforms.
How's 261 with 2x512 PC3200 EB 2.5-2-2-11 at 3.3v? I wish I could set vdimm lower, but I bought the board with the +3.3v rail modded to the vdimm. I am not complaining, but it would be better for testing if I was able to lower the voltage. I may remove it, and just mod vdimm the normal way, and just raise my +3.3v rail if I need higher vdimm.Quote:
Originally posted by Richdog
Do they scale well with more volts?
Im quite excited about this RAM if it can get me very high FSB (260+) with decent timings and low volts...
:D
Now on to test max fsb with Cas3.
Ok...so, care to tell us what it is then?Quote:
Originally posted by Walrusbonzo
Command er Clock is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as the CPU Interface option on other NF2 boards.
261 2.5-2-2 my god is that stable ?
pretty much. I can run pifast and can prime for a while, but haven't tried 3D yet. I switched my L2's back in for the night, trying to figure something out, but the EB are going back in tommorow. Will run some more test then, and going to try Cas3.Quote:
Originally posted by ryanpgroovy
261 2.5-2-2 my god is that stable ?
Wow that's impressive for PC3200 no matter what anyone says. Those are some nice benchies guys good job on that RAM. If I wasn't running an insanely high FSB I'd give them a run to play with. I'd like to see if those will hit 280+ in the future :-D
On a side note what do you guys turn off for unbuffered just uncheck the buffered tests option or more than just that?
my Geil at 272FSB (everyday speeds) pulls
Buffered
6243
6279
UnBuffered by unclickin that one box
4654
4542
There are 9 boxes to uncheck for an unbuffered Sandra. It's pretty obvious which ones once you see an example. I used to have one..........
i went ahead and assumed that teh 3700 is the same as the 3200 and 3500. i jsut ordered 2*256 of 3700EB. ill have it friday for ny infinty. hopfully either the EB or me friends ZMS im barrowing will give me more fsb! :)
Cool, let us know how she does.
I think you uncheck anything that says "Enable ..." from MMX down, but I'm not sure about SMT/Hyper-Threading. Probably uncheck that too.Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
There are 9 boxes to uncheck for an unbuffered Sandra. It's pretty obvious which ones once you see an example. I used to have one..........
Sandra Unbuffered zone..............
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ad.leach/unbuff.JPG
I'm currently running 245x10.5 with timings of 3-3-2-11@3v. My sandra bandwidth is:
3767
3508
Is that good results for 3v through it? You guys seem to be getting that with 2.5-2-2-11 but was that at 3.2v? What tweaks should i do with the timing or anything to try and squeeze it to 250. I don't really feel comfortable running the ram at higher than 3v.
Thanks
Is CPC disabled on the bios that comes as standard? ie, the bios with this feature hidden
Yes, most certainly it is. It was added in later (beta) bioses the option to disable this feature.
So it is disabled on the old bios? I just got the 1/31 and enabled CPC and now my ram won't pass prime 95 at default settings at 200mhz
No - its enabled by default on 11/27 and any other bios that does not have the option to turn it off. If ur board doesn't like a certain bios move on. Although 256Mb sticks I though always did cpc enabled ok.
I am currently testing 5/5 with my second board. I could not get dual channel working on the first at anything other than 200Mhz (sometimes not even then). I am taking this slow since I already jumped in at 250fsb with voltages maxed and it got unstable after a time. I got cpc disabled and cpu interface off and I will see if I can make 250fsb like this with 2 * 256Mb bh-5 with tight timings.
Hmmmm when i updated to the new bios i used Winflash and saved my CMOS realoaded settings. When i load up my fastest setings from the old bios it shows CPC disabled which means its disabled by default, not enabled. I can get 245 like this but i can't even get 200 with CPC enabled. I understand CPC changes timings of the chipset but can someone tell me what exactly it is effecting?
I will wait until someone else chips in on wether the default for bioses is cpc on or off. Actually why is this so important? I am 100% certain that the 11/27 bios and all that do not have the option to turn cpc off will run cpc enabled.
just ran 3dmark 2001 and got about 500 points less so now i'm just confused. Maybe CPC is enabled on the old bioses. i'm getting annoyed now.....
There is one bios which has the reverse of what u set. I think its 12/31 that u enable cpc interface, and its disabled and vice versa.
U can set cpc on or off for most bioses so why is the default setting important?
because i was stable at 245 on the default bios, i think it was 11/27 and this bios doesn't have the CPC setting there at all but on the 1/31 and 1/21 i'm not stable anymore with cpc enabled and with it off i loose 500 3d mark points at around the 18500 point instead of 19100.
Have you tried feeding it more vdd?
I am having the same trouble now. I have turned off cpc to gain stability. I needed more vdd for 3d stability, need to test more and verify that I am stable at 1.8vdd. However if all cpc needs more vdd then I will be happy.
This is becoming a chore:
250 fsb cpu interface aggressive, cpc off
dual channel 2222 11 13/15 eefd
5/5 bios with alpha timings at auto (boots fine with default settings)
2v vore 2.63Ghz barton (this board is giving a higher voltage so I may be stable past 2.65Ghz as tested before)
1.8vdd now for 3d stabillity
3.2 v vdimm (needed 3.1v for 240Mhz)
9800pro at stock, over 19k 3dmark which is better than cpc enabled single channel as on my last board.
Using this I got:Quote:
Originally posted by andyOCZ
Sandra Unbuffered zone..............
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ad.leach/unbuff.JPG
int alu = 1729 MB/s
float fpu = 1873 MB/s
As above with the same 256Mb sticks.
I think the deal with 12/31 is that either CPC is disabled by default, or it's just broken altogether. It's what made the 512 stick users so happy about getting more FSB until they realized the performance hit they took for disabling CPC. In all versions previously, it's always enabled. In all versions since, it's disabled by default.Quote:
Originally posted by megatron
There is one bios which has the reverse of what u set. I think its 12/31 that u enable cpc interface, and its disabled and vice versa.
U can set cpc on or off for most bioses so why is the default setting important?
neologan, 1/21 is supposed to be best performer with the most stability. The 5/5 beta also seems to give me equal stability and has a stand-by mode fix with all the extra memory timing options from the 2/17 alphas.
So how fast are you guys able to go with CPC?