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I JUST got done spending almost $900 on a Vapo XE, and NOW I See they are coming out with THIS!
Sometimes you Win::D
and Somtimes you Lose::dammit:
Unfortunately (For Me) , even though I Never Used the XE Yet, the place I Bought it from (www.frozencpu.com) DOES NOT make RMA's on this product.
Guess I'll Use parts of it for a GPU cooler, and buy a MARKII like I SHOULD have in the first place!
Not with a R134a compressor. Cascade more likely. Now a R404A compressor has autocascade potential. :DQuote:
I am sure Nventiv will hit back with a vegeance.. ummm autocascade Mach III
I've been trying very hard to refrain from posting this, but I simply cannot.
It's nothing new, lots of companies have done it and still do.
It you have a superior top quality product, you try to make it as distinctive and recognizable as possible. You give it it's own look different from the rest so consumers can easily spot it. asetek and nVENTIV were both fighting for that position in the market and nVENTIV continued to hold it from the begining.
If your product is not number one, you try to make it look as much like the number one product as possible. If a consumer sees the two products sitting side by side, a certain number will buy the lesser one out of simple confusion while others will see that they look identical, but one is cheaper, therefore must be a better deal....usually not true.
This has been going on forever with watches, jeans, handbags, perfumes, etc. It's nothing new and only illegal if it actually poses as the other product (Knockoffs carrying the same name...etc).
For those of you who say that there was no other way for asetek to build the new unit...get real....they could have easily kept the same look or made it entirely different from the Prommie. This was no accident, just a marketing gimmick to try to ride on nVENTIVs success.
Illegal? no....immoral....your call.....It's typical of their way of doing business. They were getting their asses kicked and their solution was to copy the competition and undercut their price. I don't know what the price will be, but it will be cheaper than the current nVENTIV prices, you can count on that.
Of course in the end the consumer will win, because this won't work for long. It will just cause nVENTIV to come out with an even better product at lower prices. The company that takes the high road will win in the end. Looking at the history of both companies, who do you think that will be?;)
What planet are you from? Here on Earth, the good guys lose.Quote:
The company that takes the high road will win in the end.
I choose door #3.Quote:
Looking at the history of both companies, who do you think that will be?
The good guys are doing custom builds. And they will lose. Guaranteed.
I choose #4 there are no good guys :DQuote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
What planet are you from? Here on Earth, the good guys lose.
I choose door #3.
The good guys are doing custom builds. And they will lose. Guaranteed.
Everyone's a good guy until they realize being a good guy requires too much work and rewards are few and far between.
well to be honest im 17 years old, i havent got very much money, i have a job and all but prommies were just to expensive for me, nether the less, i always had the plan to eventually dish out the cash for a mach2 because i consider them a great product and an awesome investment.. however if i can get pretty much the same thing only at a much lower price.. I WILL
The automotive industry does this sort of things all the time too. When some company designs a new car that looks apealing to customers and preforms well anothers will copy their ideas and use them in their own products. Anyone seen a Toyota(or any other car for that matter)with similar details as MB or BMW?? ;)
There are a few custom builders in these forums who can give you much more for much less. They have put their customers in the top ranks. Yet I see forum members still pissing away their money on vapos and prommies. That's why I haven't jumped into the custom build business.
Thats why you guys should market your products be4 you give the details out so companys don't have a chance :)Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
What planet are you from? Here on Earth, the good guys lose.
I choose door #3.
The good guys are doing custom builds. And they will lose. Guaranteed.
Well guys,
Look back at the history. THE ONE who has copied a system first was clearly inventiv with it`s mach I. It was exactly the same cooling system, that asetek used since 5 years before nventiv came up.
I know, that the founder of nventiv ( it`s just 15 km next to asetek ...lol ) is a old member of asetek.
So who has stolen an idea ?
I personally has all systems - mach I , now mach II - vapochill classic, se, pe and now xe. - Well, mach II is the strongest unit so far BUT realy poor in quality !!!
If this news are true, i will insta sell my prommy on ebay and buy this new asetek cooling unit, because it has both - the power and quality.
I hope this unit is becoming true.
We will see next week at CeBit`04 for sure !
Cyas
Quote:
Originally posted by Merenfreak
Well guys,
Look back at the history. THE ONE who has copied a system first was clearly inventiv with it`s mach I. It was exactly the same cooling system, that asetek used since 5 years before nventiv came up.
I know, that the founder of nventiv ( it`s just 15 km next to asetek ...lol ) is a old member of asetek.
So who has stolen an idea ?
I personally has all systems - mach I , now mach II - vapochill classic, se, pe and now xe. - Well, mach II is the strongest unit so far BUT realy poor in quality !!!
If this news are true, i will insta sell my prommy on ebay and buy this new asetek cooling unit, because it has both - the power and quality.
I hope this unit is becoming true.
We will see next week at CeBit`04 for sure !
Cyas
Thats some good info.
Hopefully these will eb affordable also.. 500-800 would be good :)
Don't care looks great, good to vapochill back in action.
lol...where did you get that from?Quote:
Originally posted by Merenfreak
Well guys,
Look back at the history. THE ONE who has copied a system first was clearly inventiv with it`s mach I. It was exactly the same cooling system, that asetek used since 5 years before nventiv came up.
I know, that the founder of nventiv ( it`s just 15 km next to asetek ...lol ) is a old member of asetek.
So who has stolen an idea ?
Nobody who has ever been a part of nVENTIV has ever had ANYTHING to do with Asetek inc. That is official and anyone can verify that.
Furthermore, there is a patent on the way for the Mach 1, if Asetek invented it, why is nVENTIV getting the patent? There is no indication whatsoever that anyone ever made something close to a Mach 1/2 design wise. The first one into this market was actually Kryotech, who deserve the most credit for the concept.
Please do not post non-factual nonsense in threads like this
nVentiv offers as an option the Lian Li kit. It is not their "stock" case/look. So what if Astek decided to use a Lian Li as well. I'm sure Lian Li is happy about the arrangement. And nventiv is very much shagging anyone who buys the Lian Li kit anyway. The price is ridiculous. I can buy an entire Lian Li case for 2/3 their kit cost:rolleyes:
And since when do competitors play by gentlemens rules anyway. The will all do just about anything to gain market share, including stealing other peoples ideas.
Ultimately, it is up to nVentiv to prove that they are the top dog, and have no intention of relenquishing that position. If you already believe that then why worry about what Astek does?
Oh yer if this is cheaper then the mach 2 im defiently buying one :):)
First of all, I do not belong to any religions like Nventiv or Asetek, I just want the best value for my hard earned money.
What strikes me is that in the Jpeg's added as first post, shows in the text of "The Inquirer": "Vapochill Lightspeed system" Whereas the article on the internet site of "The Inquirer" speaks of "Vapochill system".
Also, when I read the article on the Asetek site of "The Inquirer", it only say's "Vapochill system".
As Asetek does not mention a new system on their site, they thus provide (via the Inquirer) the message that a Prescott proc has been over clocked at a stable 4.3 GHz.
Now is this at all possible with a existing Vapochill unit? Or is this misleading?
Are you serious? Do you really think there is enough of a market to make it commerically viable to do this? I think it would be very hard to make a mounting system where every Joe Sixpack would be able to mount it 100% trouble free without killing his card, and i really dont see enough margins in it.Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarok
though I am still dissappointed there still isnt a out of the box phase change GPU cooler from either Asetek and Nventiv...
G
Well did u expect phase change CPU cooling to be commericially viable as well? Personally I didnt think so...
Just wishful thinking with the GPU cooler, but then there's already enough crazy people out there who are willing to shell out big bux for phase change cpu setups..so who knows what the demand will be like..
I agree what Merenfreak posted was total BS but are you posting this as personal or professional input?Quote:
Originally posted by JCviggen
lol...where did you get that from?
Nobody who has ever been a part of nVENTIV has ever had ANYTHING to do with Asetek inc. That is official and anyone can verify that.
Furthermore, there is a patent on the way for the Mach 1, if Asetek invented it, why is nVENTIV getting the patent? There is no indication whatsoever that anyone ever made something close to a Mach 1/2 design wise. The first one into this market was actually Kryotech, who deserve the most credit for the concept.
Please do not post non-factual nonsense in threads like this
Quote:
Associated with nVENTIV A/S, though any input i provide in these forums are my personal views and do not represent any company
I stated that some things are verifyably untrue, and this information i received officially.Quote:
Originally posted by bigdawginva
I agree what Merenfreak posted was total BS but are you posting this as personal or professional input?
The first and last line were my own input ;)
True. gpu phase change units would be awesome!Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarok
Well did u expect phase change CPU cooling to be commericially viable as well? Personally I didnt think so...
Just wishful thinking with the GPU cooler, but then there's already enough crazy people out there who are willing to shell out big bux for phase change cpu setups..so who knows what the demand will be like..
Chillers are more versatile, in that they will cool whatever you want. Just add a water block.
Yer i agree with that gary but they get to a point where they can't be used anymore (well temeprture wise).
The new Vapo LS just showed up on a Swedish vendor with an ETA of march 19.
Converted to $ from SKR it will land at approx. $920
That price isn't going to cut it i'm afraid unless they have done something very special with it which i doubt.
Peeps modded their Vapo's to look Lian long before even Chip-Con started in the business.
Could you post a link?
EDIT:
found it at kylning.com
Kylning.com carries the Vapo LS and the Waterchill on the same page.
BTW....I just read on the Vapo forum that asetek is sending Cathar a new LS Vapo because they borrowed and "improved" on his water block design.
I wonder what Dtek sent him?
Our site ( OcShoot.no - Norwegian only - we got tired of writing "english" and killed OcShoot.com ) have had a long and very good relation
with Asetek - but we have quarreled a lot and disagreed on a lot of things : so me and the CEO have agreed that there are only women
that are sour for more than 1 hour :)
Yes - I know André Sloth Eriksen - Asetek CEO - from years back - I was one of the first (the first ? ) who reviewed slot VapoChill - and
therafter we have been reviewing the "rest"...and giving our yes and no's.
I have always been open and said that we get much information from Asetek ; and Asetek has always told me what was going on in their
end.
Simply as that - and we have spanked Asetek hard - very hard in things they didn't do 100% - and they listen.
As a reviewer I rejected and returned the first Prometeia model ; it didn't have sufficient insulation - (later models are suspicous too - I don't
want them.. I'm no millionaire....)
From there we were "banned" by nVENTIV / ChipCon - newerthless we were the ones that recommended our sponsor ( 3DfxCool.no ) to
start selling MachII - we have one thing in mind ; we want the best / hardest / safest products (not safe = sour readers) for our readers - if
our sponsors give a :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: we are known to import them ourselves and sell them with 0 margin. Then present the salesnumbers for "whoever"
might be interested - we did so with VapoChill and got out of business with 0 earnings.
We were ready to do the same with MachII - but would do that first after we have have told people about how to do adequate 24/7
insulation - nVENTIV have "adopted" some of Aseteks way regarding insulation ; but not enough - they need to adopt 100% - yes even
the very unpopular grease in the socket ! I say - cooperate and let the us overclockers do what we wanna do safe ! You are two danish
producers - what with a cooperation ? Or are Asetek gonna push their luck so far that even Steen Hansen is coming back in business - the one that sent JcViggen to Diskuter.no... jepp you are stretching you'r crediblity JcViggen.. very far - XS got a moderator that is employed by nVENTIV which were sent to our forum to brag of Prometeia ? Webmaster ?= time to do some cleaning here ? Credibility to have a person employed by a vendor ?
Asetek is earning their money in watercooling - phase ? probably close to nada ! So what with nVENTIV ? propably close to nada either....
well nVENTIV have done one thing for us - prices=down. Not bad for a couple of garagemechanics that uses a fridge producer to assemble their product (Elcold).
No I am not trying to "backwash" them - a big and very litte economic compressor did the trick - together with "false" temperatures and "false" powerconsumption ....
nVENTIV have stated that their values are incorrect - but still they don't give us correct values ? I belive some here know why - I belive I do.....
History ?
1:Kryotech was the first with phasecooling
2: Asetek developed their first system - in 1997 with a 230V /110V compressor
3: Asetek was the first with a phase system that allowed the user to change the CPU - in "ease"
4: We - OcShoot.no - were the first to "move" a compressor to another cabinet
5: A dutch guy shows his VapoLi at Cebit - way before nVENTIV/ CHIPCON was born
6: MAXXPERT was the first with a standalone compressor cabinet
7: I'm not gonna rip up in "EU controversy" - and why ChipCon changed name to nVENTIV...
If LianLi have accepted that Asetek uses their LianLi/phase conversion that first were exposed at CeBit way before nVENTIV "was here" - well so what ?
Have nice day - and remember the #1 rule to yer alll ; stop and think.... it's still allowed... ;)
looks like baker will be getting one tooQuote:
Originally posted by TheDude
Kylning.com carries the Vapo LS and the Waterchill on the same page.
BTW....I just read on the Vapo forum that asetek is sending Cathar a new LS Vapo because they borrowed and "improved" on his water block design.
I wonder what Dtek sent him?
according to a post by support2 asetek on there forum
Do I have to like you anyway :DQuote:
Originally posted by TheDude
Kylning.com carries the Vapo LS and the Waterchill on the same page.
BTW....I just read on the Vapo forum that asetek is sending Cathar a new LS Vapo because they borrowed and "improved" on his water block design.
I wonder what Dtek sent him?
We have tested alle "high end" watercooling blocks and our concern was that Cathar didn't get credit for his work.
Maybe you are not to bad TheDude :banana:
Later...
:D
BTW I was very sad to hear that OcShoot.com is no more as I can't understand the other site. :(
I have to say that to refer to nVENTIV as "a couple of garage mechanics" is very unfair. These are two of the most intelligent guys you will ever meet.
JC is very careful to always say who he is speaking for and even has it in his sig. He was a valuable staff member here long before he started at nVENTIV. He does not try to hide his employment....like I said it's in every post he makes.;)
Whatever happened to Kryotech? I don't hear much about them.
You'll find the informations about what happened to Kryotech here
Ok - regarding JC ( well JC ? ) - and the two guys that started ChipCon : if nothing else they HAVE been helping our "community" pricewise ;)Quote:
Originally posted by TheDude
:D
BTW I was very sad to hear that OcShoot.com is no more as I can't understand the other site. :(
I have to say that to refer to nVENTIV as "a couple of garage mechanics" is very unfair. These are two of the most intelligent guys you will ever meet.
JC is very careful to always say who he is speaking for and even has it in his sig. He was a valuable staff member here long before he started at nVENTIV. He does not try to hide his employment....like I said it's in every post he makes.;)
They have done their job very well for "us" !
Some numbers ?
Yes LS will come according Asetek CEO André and Morten from Asetek - chew on it - like it - dislike it - whatever.. this is what I got so far ;
Numbers from the new VapoChill vs. MachII - ( from the Astek Inquirer test ) ;
135W
VapoChill -32.5 on the evaporator and -18.5 in the CPU-dummy
MACHII -15 on the evaporator and +4 in the CPU-dummy (Their software shows -30)
200W
VapoChill -30 on the evaporator and -13 in the CPU-dummy
MACHII -10.5 on the evaporator and +16 in the CPU-dummy (Their software shows -24)
I am not sure if I am allowed to publish these numbers - but I have told André Sloth Eriksen that I did publish them at our own forum earlier today and after that I have recieved a couple of mails from him.
No "no no" hehe ...
And yes I know about the "new Mach" rumours - and have som inside about that too.. but it is only loose numbers - the numbers from Asetek is truthworthy.
No you didn't "pump" me dude - these numbers have been available at Diskuter.no hours ago :D - yet again - only in Norwegian....
Sorry 'bout that..
Maybe you don't know their background as I do ....Quote:
I have to say that to refer to nVENTIV as "a couple of garage mechanics" is very unfair. These are two of the most intelligent guys you will ever meet.
Jeah its a small world - I happen to work for a Danish company which have sent me to a lot of courses in Svendborg - Denmark....
But there are no Einstein tech ? - big compressor does the trick... but they surely missed in giving us the right specs ? And still they dont have stated correct specs - just "estimates" - no wonder - a Danish fridge producer (Elcold) is assembling MachII....
In other words - they have no R'n D department - they had Steen Hansen ; now ? And they rent a office....
Yet - they have don a "good" job for our community - and stirred up Asetek ! The days of wonder is still not finished :D
OcShoot,
Thanks for the info., very interesting numbers. I will see if I get the same with the same loads on the MachII. Of course I have no way of testing the new Vapo LS and I doubt they would send me one because they don't seem to trust me to be truthful about the results.:shrug:
Ok friend - I edited my post so please F5 !Quote:
Originally posted by TheDude
OcShoot,
Thanks for the info., very interesting numbers. I will see if I get the same with the same loads on the MachII. Of course I have no way of testing the new Vapo LS and I doubt they would send me one because they don't seem to trust me to be truthful about the results.:shrug:
CU :toast:
Ladies and Gentlemen....finally it is official
£440 exc VAT... landing it at the same price as the MkII Bundle Price for those buying in the UK.
Hmm......
"240W @ -25,5° C / 0W @ -48° C"
$829 USD
The Mach II is about 770€ with Enlight case, CPU kit and no LCD here in germany.
So the Vapo LS is in the same price region, 799€ for Vapo LS wich includes "Lian-Li look", the CPU-Kit but no Case.
For the prommy the Lian-Li kit costst about 130€ :rolleyes:
And I like that their CPU-Kit is compatible to K8 and P4!
I guess , Im getting something out of this...........
quote from the vapochill forums:
"Our new evaporator design is a hybrid between different ideas, and one of the designs we got inspired from was Bakers. We acknowledge that, and he will get a VapoChill LS for free at his doorstep. It's not a copy of his design, as we improved it, but we would like to credit him for his ideas."
My next generation cpu evap will handle 200 watts of heat. This evap will only be available if you buy one of my custom units. There are alot of stuff coming so stay tune.......
baker18
Consider me tuned d00d...!
It may come in cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit, but put the two side by side, and it looks cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit...
Does the asetek website work for you guys??
http://www.akiba-pc.com/asetek.gif
I don't think that it looks cheaper! And I'm sure that it's more stable because the Prommies Lian Li kit is only sticked to the original prommy housing.Quote:
It may come in cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit, but put the two side by side, and it looks cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit...
Unluckily the website does no correctly load with "real" browsers ;) until you set the browser identification to "Internet Explorer 6 blah". I have no Firebird / Firefox here but I had the same problem in my Konqueror and Mozilla (well ok, it's the firebirds engine ;) ) until I changed the browser identification.Quote:
Does the asetek website work for you guys??
I posted that issue (and some other users also did that after me) in the vapochill support forums and mailed Asetek 'bout that issue but they did not care about it.
EDIT:
The site always correctly loads on Internet Explorer.
Aseteks site works here.(using IE 6.0).
works here as well macci mate...
Do it. Do it! I was looking at captain cascades as were many others until he went big business. I like how you acknowledge that they dont cost enough to make to warrant these prices on prefab units. While custom work is always deserving of extra money we need a forum guru to do this that acknowledges a thousand bucks for a mach II and this vapo is absurd. We can OC some on air etc. so its hard to quantify when we would get that investment back through cheap cpus but definitely quite a while at 1 frigging k!Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
There are a few custom builders in these forums who can give you much more for much less. They have put their customers in the top ranks. Yet I see forum members still pissing away their money on vapos and prommies. That's why I haven't jumped into the custom build business.
If someone can perfect dual evap units... we probably will be saying Nventive who and vapo what? I'm sorry but I just dont see all these customs available for sale. I've only seen chilly1 openly look for work, and captain before he went company.
Do you really think that custom units would be cheaper?? Just imagine the time you need to build a phase change unit!
What are you basing that upon?Quote:
Originally posted by st0nedpenguin
It may come in cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit, but put the two side by side, and it looks cheaper than a Prommi/Lian-Li kit...
Has anyone actually seen this thing in the flesh?
I think Asetek-bashing when no one has even seen more than two pictures of this product is a little pointless myself.
G
Absolutely true! Full ack!Quote:
I think Asetek-bashing when no one has even seen more than two pictures of this product is a little pointless myself.
i disagree, bashing is our way of showing that their behaviour is unacceptable, totally.... I don't care if you can get .1 K with this thing... A clone is a clone is clone (u get the point) I bet asetek has replaced thier full R&D with ppl reading the phasechage-forums here. Despiccable (sp?) is what it is... Thinking of taking them to t3h law when they to seden, seeing as our laws are quite strict against plagiarizing ( for example, u can't sell lindows in sweden)
Scumbags
(PS. I don't own a prommy... nor am i in any way affiliated with Nventive)
http://www.asetek.com/main/page.asp?sideid=465
guess what....it has r507 :P
_zZz_Quote:
The NEW VapoChill LightSpeed [AC]™ represents not only the most powerful CPU cooling system commercially available – its superiority extends to control features, upgrade flexibility, CPU-mounting mechanism, CPU support, emergency shut down features and, especially, LOWEST TEMPERATURES & MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK!
The VapoChill LightSpeed [AC]™ has been optimised for the most extreme performance by using a different coolant; R507, which is the most powerful and effective coolant for CPU heat removal. You will not only achieve the lowest possible CPU core temperatures but also an extreme overclocking potential. Unlike the rest of the VapoChill family the LightSpeed [AC]™ is based on 115/230V why it supports all motherboards.
There is very little performance difference between 507 and 404a. Fine tuning makes more of a difference.
Crankster:
Why can you say it's just a clone? Only because it looks like a lian-li-prommy?
If you build a unit that fits under an existing PC case it will always look a little bit like a prommy. And if you give it a lian li - finish it'll of course look like a prommy with lian li kit.
Everybody knows that the lian li cases are very popular so why shouldn't they produce a compatible phase change unit? only because a competitor did that before?
Well, they could have located the display anywhere else, maybe at the bottom, to let it look a little bit different but anybody would always say it would look like a clone.
well i will be selling my mach1 as soon as this comes out if it performs well.
I was just thinking this:Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarok
I am sure Nventiv will hit back with a vegeance.. ummm autocascade Mach III :D
If nVENTIV manages to produce a unit that does the same thing as the MachII/Vapo LS at a cost of less than $350.00 US Dollars...the phasechange war will be won.
If you get prices that low...market saturation will go from around 3% of OCers worldwide to prolly about 40% if not more.
http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/downl...ghtSpeed.gififQuote:
Originally posted by Master_G
What are you basing that upon?
Has anyone actually seen this thing in the flesh?
I think Asetek-bashing when no one has even seen more than two pictures of this product is a little pointless myself.
G
I don't need to see it in the flesh, the Prommi Lian Li kit manages to match up the position and numbering of its grille holes with the Lian Li case, according to pictures from Asetek themselves, this doesn't...
asetek should put *Designed/Inspired by Baker18 from XtremeSystems.org* on every box that utlizes your evap design. :DQuote:
Originally posted by baker18
I guess , Im getting something out of this...........
quote from the vapochill forums:
"Our new evaporator design is a hybrid between different ideas, and one of the designs we got inspired from was Bakers. We acknowledge that, and he will get a VapoChill LS for free at his doorstep. It's not a copy of his design, as we improved it, but we would like to credit him for his ideas."
My next generation cpu evap will handle 200 watts of heat. This evap will only be available if you buy one of my custom units. There are alot of stuff coming so stay tune.......
baker18
:toast:Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo
asetek should put *Designed/Inspired by Baker18 from XtremeSystems.org* on every box that utlizes your evap design. :D
Phobos, evidently i see something you don't see or the other way around... Considering the market asetek is aming for, (IE overclockers) and may of them hang aroun here, this is extremely close to a facial slap IMHO..
Ok, only one question. How accurate is the displayed temp? After the big stink raised by asetek about the mach displays being so inaccurate (and they are inaccurate) lets see if they were willing to build an accurate unit instead of an inaccurate unit that displays low temps just to sell units. The first person to hookup a fluke (or other themometer with better than +/-.3% accuracy) to a vapochill LS can prove or disprove this.
Here is the official reply by Asetek regarding the Prommy-Li like look:
3. Since the first entrance of Lian Li cases on the market, people have been building in their VapoChill unit. Furthermore the original idea of building a compressor into a Lian Li styled box under the PC was done by a case modder from Holland, for a system for CeBIT. When nVENTIV saw that, they "adopted" his idea. So there is really nothing new into this either.
you can find the full text here.
Didn't know about that one i must confess... Now i will scour the web for counterweapons
...against Asetek? :confused:Quote:
Now i will scour the web for counterweapons
Um no... maybe reread my post? I didnt say that either. I said one must keep in mind that they cost too much already. This was a statement I was essentially agreeing with and reiterating from one of our guru's. Lets say custom work should cost DOUBLE or triple. Ok fair enough. Anyone going to pay 2 grand?Quote:
Originally posted by phobos
Do you really think that custom units would be cheaper?? Just imagine the time you need to build a phase change unit!
The person I was directing my comment towards, Gary Lloyd, seem to be implying that forum members could make better customs that were more worth the money at least. All those guys are great - I'm sure they can. He might have even implied it could be price competitive but my only comment was this.... I dont see our refridgeration gurus going at this. I was very intersted in a custom captain cascade made unit and so were others. I'd be happy to take a look at XS'ers unit.
So basically to summarize, it was asked why people are buying up prommies and vapos when there are reasonable alternatives. Being in the market for a mach I.... show me! An honest request from someone who doesnt want to be in the category of the so-called silly guys who should have gotten a custom from XS. I dont see my choice in the matter and I dont feel comfortable asking around. "Hey will you make me..."
Well i guess i have stayed out long enought..:)
ok guys for one i am glad the new vapo is comming out and am happy to see it.competiton is great for everyone...:D
as far as who coppied who...well i am not getting into that one.but vapos were out a long time ago.
as fas as the baker blocks we have been working on..well i think asetek giving baker one was a nice thing..
you know they didnt have to do a thing.but instead they are shipping him a new light speed as soon as they have a 115v available to the states.that was a pretty nice thing to do.baker and i both know its real easy to change one small thing and copy it legally so thats no big deal...and was sorta exspected..
but them stepping up to the plate and giving him a new unit was nice...
as far as how much heat they can handle..
well the proms and the vapos new or old can give be measured in so many differant ways it isnt funny...
i can take one 150 watt heat load and kill a mach II but take that same 150 watts of heat and hold at -20 or so..it is all in how they are applied..so lets not worry about how much heat they advertise they can remove...
in the new month..april i will hopefully be doing a excate test on the new unit...i will be using a old mach II and a old vapo xe and hope fully a new unit or 2 ...(lightspeed maybe and new mach II)i am hoping.as far as i know i have a new mach II coming and hopefully have a new lightspeed)
i will showing excate heat loads and how i can munipulate the heat loads to show what i want...but i will show the loads applied and how they fair also on a real cpu.
but i will show how i do it and what each is really doing.then i hope to place each with the same cpu/motherboard,and do a windows test..
by using the same hardwear to test ..i eliminate any diffeances between cpus and motherboards...so i will be testing apples to apples..and we will see..
so if you guys want a real test....i hope to be doing one soon..
as far as i know this would be the first test ever between the 2 giants in the cooling arena...plus i have the tools to measure real heat applied.so we will see...
i would like to say more but untill i know for sure the hardwear is on the way..i better not..
but i am a unbiased person..i only care about facts and cooling...i am not going to say any bad words about either product.as i am just going to give my results and let the results speak for themself...i personally like both companys
so how many want a real test done on the units....?
I for one do, a test by you Bowman would be the definitive review of phase change cooling on the web IMO.
G
Bowman, I can't wait to read your test :D
Exactly my opinion bowman.Quote:
but i am a unbiased person..i only care about facts and cooling...i am not going to say any bad words about either product.as i am just going to give my results and let the results speak for themself...i personally like both companys
But I don't like people b1tching companies like it was done above.
I owned two classic vapos and a PE and now I own a Mach I.
All of these were great products and support was great at both companies.
I'll always buy the system with the best bang for the buck, no matter wich company produces it ;)
Ditto. edit: in reference to Master_G post.
Yep, that way I wouldn't have to read any other reviews of the units or separate forum fact and fiction.
who gives a rat's ass how it looks? We all know that current vapochill units look like pregnant penguins, and now you are complaining? Gimme a break. If it costs less than the Mach II especially with the Lian Li case then I dont see what is wrong, especially if it performs better. Competition is good, what encouragement would nVentive have to make a better product if there was no competition??? None, they can sit around and never improve and people will continue to buy their product. No updates, competition is good for progression, end of story.
Slickthellama:
That's exactly how it is ;)
Btw: I love that movie...... :D
Looking forward to the test, Bowman.. :)
The sooner, the better.. :)
FT.
well
I dont think all that noise about whos copying who would have ever started if all that big thread about asetek blaming nventiv etc was never started...
I personally dont think EITHER that asetek would have shipped an LS unit to baker if this thread was never started either...i may be wrong though.
Its all that background that seems a bit wrong with their new product launch that has made people a bit upset etc...
For me it all started with the new antartica...or LRWW block...
then the thread in XS about asetek vs nVENTIV...
now with their new product launch...
One followed by the other...
I just want to point one thing out....nVentiv will have a good comeback up their sleeeve for sure. So I suggest you wait. Now im going to give you guys a clue. There is a cebit show ocmming up and nventiv is going to participate. now this show features new products -- so do you really think nventiv will be showcasing their mach2 again? NO! so ther you have it. from here on in just use common sense..
also itsn ot very easy for nventiv to make a r404a cooling unit. the problem is that nventiv is ISO certified and they need approval before they begin manafacturing a r404a cooling system and it takes about 6months to get this approval. asetek is not iso certified and that way they do whatever they want..nventiv does things right.....
atm seems asetek is looking appealing. the "Stoc" LS will feature a lianli bottom case whicb saves you about $180 (if you decided to buy a mk2 + lianli mod). those who already have the pc65 just snap it right on and your good to go. sure those who are using r404a/r502/r507 modded mk1/2's should hold on to their units because they will perform on par with the LS however the LS will make a good first phase change system for someone. asetek has to be accurate with their temps after all of the flaming they did about nventivs temps.
well as always i talked to my reseller friends and this unit is going to be CHEAP! going to be approx 850~870 shipped from my pals. will post the link once its up. dont want to make any empty promises. :toast:
im going to be completely honest here...i know no one really cares but my mk2 is going. thing is still sealed in the box so im going to get rid of it asap and pick a LS up! w00t! going to get 2x..one for cpu and the other for gpu -- looks like that it will be vry easy to mount this on my 9800xt :toast:
I will be happy to see Bowman test both units also. No one is more qualified or more unbiased.
BTW I should mention that I may have made a mistake in an earlier post when I stated that asetek said they were sending Cathar an LS. I went back looking for that post and all I found was the one about Baker, so I'm sorry if I got them confused. I really thought I saw posts about them both....my apologies to Cathar and asetek for my mistake.:shrug:
Im so all over that Lightspeed unit.
I just ordered a Lian Li PC-75. It will house the watercooling unit for my system until i can get one of the Lightspeeds. Ill just watercool the Radeon from there on out after the Lightspeed is in my hands.
Question.. How much power do these phase change units suck up? How big of a dent did it place on your electricity bill? I leave my computer on for days at a time.
I for one want one of these new rigs, utilizing the baker block should allow the unit to hold an overclock pretty nicely, wise choice on asetek's part, can't wait to try one:D
OPP
Custom builders buy their components from wholesale distributors. Given volume, they could buy direct from the manufacturers. But even without the volume, I think they can beat those prices. Hopefully one of them will show up, and speak for himself.Quote:
Do you really think that custom units would be cheaper?? Just imagine the time you need to build a phase change unit!
Personally, if I were going to jump into it, I would build a cheap chiller. I like chillers, they are more versatile, and I think there is more of a market for them. Frozen methanol, anyone?
Anybody heard anything else about CeBIT? I heard a few things last week that just SCREAM this is going to happen. I also heard something about Tom's "record" being challenged but that was more of a rumor-rumor. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Phyrox
IThere is a cebit show ocmming up and nventiv is going to participate. now this show features new products...
At any rate, it should be a great few months coming up for both camps.
yeah ^^^soon a great fight between Nventiv & Asetek
MACH II ST VS VAPOCHILL LS
three, two, one
goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Need even more competition. I'd like a US firm to come up. Imagine, if something went wrong I could actually have it repaired by the manufacturer. :eek: Not to mention pretty much anything around here with compressor based cooling is downright cheap. Dont see how with enough volume they could cost much to get the components. Bring on the $300 units! Not that only the states could do this, i'm just daydreaming now of how easy that would make things for me ;)
Plus these companies, stories I've read, they dont seem so freindly with flaky busted stuff even if you do pack it up and ship it around the globe. i.e. Broken cap tube - Prom. Whats up with that? Better give people some flexible hoses if you are going to grow your customer base. If sales of equipment like this start to grow, has there been a simultaneous raised level of overclocking know-how and skill ? Obviously not.
LoL toms "record"....anyone with a basic knowledge of overclocking and money can EASILY beet him at anything besides photochopping and altering benchmark scores :)
Nice to see that Opp is intrested in the LS as well...Well as for me I do not need to wait for bowman or anyone elese to get this first. Im diving in!
I wonder how big the evap die is on this thing. The Mach I's only covers about 70% on the A64 heatspreader and is offset as well. Hmm, is the Mach II/ST's any bigger?
They're about 100 euros cheaper than the Vapo XE...
/me thinks about going "LIGHT SPEED"
/looks over at both Classic & PE
Nah, not yet me thinks, gotta mod the Classic first, wait for some results before splurging again.....:( :( :( :(
One way or another, I will be in this battle as well.
I honestly believe that i make the best coolers in existance, and i have the results to prove this. That is why it is very strange to me that niether of the two major manufacturers (vapochill, promy) have made any atempt to contact me. I don't know who their chief designer is, but i think he could use a little help.
From seeing both units in action, i can say i am less than impressed. Niether company has made any effort what so ever to develop better technology. If you are reading this, I have something to say to you: There are better ways of doing this! They are just busy counting thier money.(edit; honestly i think that the promy and the vapochill are very reasonably priced)
When i build a system, my primary concern is the system. Not the profit. I'd say the only reason either company is lowwering the prices is in hopes of crippleing the competition so they can raise the prices.
I will find a way to offer you, the ocing comunity,the best cooling that money can buy and at reasonable prices.
I have alot of work to do.
As was my concern in the buisness of ultra low temperature freezer service and design.
My concern shall remain in the buisness of computer cooling.
Reputation as being one of the best in the world.
oh, and i wouldn't buy either of them :D
Look forward to having the choice of a CC cooling system... :D
#1 nVentiv doesn't need to copy asetekQuote:
Originally posted by TheDude
You have to admit it's pretty funny that the new Vapo looks exactly like a MachII with some extra holes drilled in the side panel. Before they looked nothing alike at all.
It looks to me like they just copied the MachII and regassed it with 404? Not sure about which gas they used?
Competition is good, but lets have some NEW products and NEW ideas.
Before I am accused of being biased.....I would feel the same way if nVENTIV rolled out a "New" product that looked just like a Vapochill. Who wouldn't? :rolleyes:
#2 anyone inteligent enough would not copy so blantly..
#3 your the least bias person I know..
#4 all fair when the equipment looks 100% the same right?
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
You either put the unit above or below. If you use a heavier compressor, you put it below, so the whole thing won't be top heavy. If you put it below, there isn't much choice on where the hose comes up to go to the CPU. Does that make it a clone? I don't think so.
Better performance at a lower price.
Good job, Asetek. :toast:
explain the looks then and all the similarities to the baker block.....
good job asetek - you CAN color in the lines....
Does this look like a copy?
No... that looks like a whole lot of sexy :slobber:Quote:
Originally posted by captaincascade
Does this look like a copy?
EXCATLY! -40C on y our CPU, NB and GPU! thats why ima build oneQuote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Custom builders buy their components from wholesale distributors. Given volume, they could buy direct from the manufacturers. But even without the volume, I think they can beat those prices. Hopefully one of them will show up, and speak for himself.
Personally, if I were going to jump into it, I would build a cheap chiller. I like chillers, they are more versatile, and I think there is more of a market for them. Frozen methanol, anyone?
Couple of things ,a properly modded r134A system changed to R507/404 will run at the same compressor temperatures or close. If it is running hot enough to trip the internal overload then it is not modded properly.
And second, I am working on a cascade system for around 1200 that will get you 200W at -95C under (200W) load. With a 1 year warrentee on the compressors. It will be built with 2- fractional hoursepower compressors and will be capable of 24 hour operation. Of course this will be the nonadjustable version on and off no temp guages. I will have a dual head system (cascade for around 1500 based on the same design only scaled up. I am also working on a complete moisture condensation system.
This is a Mach II
http://www.chip-con.com/log/146.JPG
Sorry, but I don't see the similarities. Yes nVentiv also offer's the Lian Li kit, and apparently the full case now, but the Lian Li is not nVentiv's design, simply a case maker that they chose to partner with. If nVentiv wanted to exclude any other supercooling manufacturer from using that case then maybe they should have arranged that with Lian Li before hand, or simply chose someone else.
Be very careful chilly, 600 outa that 1200 better be spent on safety devices. Only reason i sold 1 of mine was because the guy lives so close, and if there was a problem i could take care of it easily.Quote:
Originally posted by chilly1
Couple of things ,a properly modded r134A system changed to R507/404 will run at the same compressor temperatures or close. If it is running hot enough to trip the internal overload then it is not modded properly.
And second, I am working on a cascade system for around 1200 that will get you 200W at -95C under (200W) load. With a 1 year warrentee on the compressors. It will be built with 2- fractional hoursepower compressors and will be capable of 24 hour operation. Of course this will be the nonadjustable version on and off no temp guages. I will have a dual head system (cascade for around 1500 based on the same design only scaled up. I am also working on a complete moisture condensation system.
second i think we are getting a little off subject
Commerical phase change are great for people who just cant be bothered but people who want the the challenge on building there own can it do it for cheaper. Its basically to build your own you kinnda need to be experianced and have access to vacum pumps and refrigant.
I think waterchillers are preety good for what they can do and that is why i am building one :)
The only trade that requires more tools than a refrigeration tech is a car mechanic.
Refigeration techs are: electricians, metal workers, plummers, carpenters, thermal dynamic engineers, general construction workers, and a whole lot of other things. I alone have 10,000$ worth of tools, so i can do my job right.
This is something to think about when thinking of building your own. Not that I am trying to deter you, just stating another problem.
My vacuum pump alone was 3000$
I think you copied that from Maxxxpert :DQuote:
Originally posted by captaincascade
Does this look like a copy?
OPP
Maxxxpert doing -21c:D
OPP
You probably wont have to wait long with your reputation. I'd say on your doorstep within 3-4 weeks free of charge....;)Quote:
Originally posted by OPPAINTER
I for one want one of these new rigs, utilizing the baker block should allow the unit to hold an overclock pretty nicely, wise choice on asetek's part, can't wait to try one:D
OPP
I say bring it on. I bet it works better then anything else I have here cooling my CPU.Quote:
Originally posted by G H Z
You probably wont have to wait long with your reputation. I'd say on your doorstep within 3-4 weeks free of charge....;)
I think my coldest cooler is my new Radeon cooler at this point.
OPP