AMD Officially Denies Bulldozer Delay !

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Originally Posted by mattkosem

That's not completely accurate. Off-the-shelf PC models go through months of validation before they are available to customers. They're not just vetting out a new mobo in these PCs, they're testing the whole thing. Every component has to be leaned out as much as possible to keep costs down, and it takes a while to prove out how low they can go without sacrificing too much reliability.

--Matt

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Validation and testing is done with ES and pre production cpus.HP dell etc, are doing this probably RIGHT NOW with B1 samples.
They dont even have to have final silicon for that, just with right TDP.
Youre portraying it in a manner that prevents OEM launch with Retail launch, when on most occasions theyre the same or even OEMs get them faster.
I dont see a reason why there shouldnt be OEM boxes ready in GOD DAMN nov/dec when the full launch is expected in september or even august.
Looking at the presentation, it says 60 to 90 days for PIB avaialability, thats retail CPU in a store..
Its June the 1st.60 days from now will be august 1st,thats probably around the launch time,mid summer.From this date CPUS are starting to trickle down around the world to be fully available in stores a month later (90days from today),thats sep 1 .OEMs will have final silicon at least month earlier with the launch (probably even sooner).No way they will miss nov/dec sales.And i doubt they will miss even most of the back to school sales.
Thats of course true if AMD will keep current schedule.

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Well.... It sucks that we have to wait a few more months for BD, but at least they finally cleared up all the rumors.
No AMD fan wants to hear it, but from a business sense if the chip isn't quite ready they're better off to wait.
The last thing they need to do is repeat the mistakes of Agena!

Call me a fanboy (because I am ;)), at least we'll have Llano toys to hold us over... :cool:

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Yep.. I'm with ya Dave, I'm watching closesly for Liano to pop up on Newegg..... My HTPC in the Living room would like one.. of course after I am done toying with it first ;)

The Mythical Unicorn has been delayed, hmmmmmm......what a suprise! Good thing AMD Confirmed that BullDozer will not be delayed.

Damn, damn, damn! I was truly looking forward to getting rid of this Intel system as I do not like it at all, Core i7-950 is nothing but frigging Intel Hype in actual fact it is equivalent to my Phenom 940 BE maybe slightly faster and it idles at 41c with a $80.00 Noctua Cooler installed at stock with speed step enabled......piece of ***** processor! AMD Makes the better platform and much more stable to boot.

lol Brother!

http://translate.google.de/translate...941618&act=url

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Originally Posted by XRL8

Validation and testing is done with ES and pre production cpus.HP dell etc, are doing this probably RIGHT NOW with B1 samples.
They dont even have to have final silicon for that, just with right TDP.
Youre portraying it in a manner that prevents OEM launch with Retail launch, when on most occasions theyre the same or even OEMs get them faster.
I dont see a reason why there shouldnt be OEM boxes ready in GOD DAMN nov/dec when the full launch is expected in september or even august.
Looking at the presentation, it says 60 to 90 days for PIB avaialability, thats retail CPU in a store..
Its June the 1st.60 days from now will be august 1st,thats probably around the launch time,mid summer.From this date CPUS are starting to trickle down around the world to be fully available in stores a month later (90days from today),thats sep 1 .OEMs will have final silicon at least month earlier with the launch (probably even sooner).No way they will miss nov/dec sales.And i doubt they will miss even most of the back to school sales.
Thats of course true if AMD will keep current schedule.

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Seems you drew more from my words than I actually wrote. I never implied that it would have any impact on the launch of the OEM systems. I simply indicated that it's not a simple "drop the cpu in and go" process as you indicated. In either case though, the final validation will be done in its entirety with production silicon (which they'll have weeks if not months before the processors are available to the public through retail channels).

--Matt

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Originally Posted by Oese

http://translate.google.de/translate...941618&act=url

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THX. Now it can explain why Zambezi is postponed, and why Dirk was left.

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Originally Posted by undone

THX. Now it can explain why Zambezi is postponed, and why Dirk was left.

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So you mean Anand heard wrong from someone? :D

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Originally Posted by Oese

http://translate.google.de/translate...941618&act=url

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Hmm... sounds like an excuse. But at least it's a sensible one.

Well, they are following the money. Isn't that why they got rid of their old CEO? So this is a sensible move for the "new" AMD.

Im skeptical, no "proper"leaks, low numbers with the current leaks, and mobo manufacturers claiming new spin needed.Makes much more sense.Also, in the high end desktop and server markets (BD target) theyre making more $ per mm2 of a 32nm wafer.

So this is essentially saying "We meant to do this"? You don't swap schedules like that without making public comments or guidance I would imagine. Just say, "We have limited manufacturing capability at the moment, so we are optimizing things such that we will release Llano first, while pushing Bulldozer back til further capacity opens up" or some such thing...

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Originally Posted by zalbard

Isn't that why they got rid of their old CEO? So this is a sensible move for the "new" AMD.

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This is a plausible explanation. It's possible that the allocation of wafers has been discussed in January, the board wanted to give priority to Llano, given it has been delayed a bit, Dirk opposed and left.

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Originally Posted by XRL8

in the high end desktop and server markets (BD target) theyre making more $ per mm2 of a 32nm wafer.

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In the high end desktop market? More than from OEMs? Nope. While servers, yes, are high revenue. And server BD was scheduled for Q3 and it appears to be on track, so no problems there (hopefully).

Wasn't it stated sometime ago that Llano would be released before Bulldozer?

I don't mind this if the "We wanted to focus on Llano first" excuse is true. It just means that we'll get Trinity sooner.

I am looking forward to bulldozer, but for saying absolutely nothing + having their PR department lie about it, here's a little message for them:

**** you, AMD.

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Originally Posted by DarthShader

This is a plausible explanation. It's possible that the allocation of wafers has been discussed in January, the board wanted to give priority to Llano, given it has been delayed a bit, Dirk opposed and left.


In the high end desktop market? More than from OEMs? Nope. While servers, yes, are high revenue. And server BD was scheduled for Q3 and it appears to be on track, so no problems there (hopefully).

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Dirk seemed like a strong supporter of getting BD on the market fast...after all he was in that YouTube advertisement when he said "Times up" that AMD pulled right after he left...

Looks more than plausible to me, I mean 990FX got almost no work and looks like it was pushed with nothing new (its STILL 65NM!) and it looks like working BD silicon is out and about but no large scale production has begun. :shrug:

They confirmed no delay...and then went on to delay it. Yay AMD!

There are much more sinister rumours out there as to what the delay is all about..I really hope they are incorrect/false/faked.

http://www.computerbase.de/news/hard...von-bulldozer/

Sigh.

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Originally Posted by DarthShader

This is a plausible explanation. It's possible that the allocation of wafers has been discussed in January, the board wanted to give priority to Llano, given it has been delayed a bit, Dirk opposed and left.


In the high end desktop market? More than from OEMs? Nope. While servers, yes, are high revenue. And server BD was scheduled for Q3 and it appears to be on track, so no problems there (hopefully).

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I was referring to the alleged production capacity constraints.
In this field, they are making more money on a 300$ chip than Llano, as its going to be priced a lot less.If you can allot 100% of your production capacity, you choose the ones on which you make more $ per square milimeter dont you ?
BD chips are going to cost 250-300$, while Llano is athlon x4 with onboard gpu, we dont have exact die sizes, but for Llano cpu part should be around 100mm2 and looking at the die size another 100mm2 for the gpu, so 200mm2, and BD is rumoured around 250mm2 , so Llano is not much smaller (~25%) but will be priced a lot less.Thats my line of thinking.

i know many members across all forums waiting for it, but for me honestly hope it is late cause i haven't had good time to play with 2500k yet. i do want to upgrade but if it release date is same and it'll go down in price (which it'll be) i'll buy it sooner compare to waiting 2-3 month extra.

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Originally Posted by DarthShader

Hmm... sounds like an excuse. But at least it's a sensible one.

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Actually the real reason is pretty mundane. It all breaks down to scheduling at this point. Server is still expecting to launch in Q3, so most of the rumors are pretty far off.

Sometimes it is frustrating to sit on the inside and know what is going on while all of the rumors swirl. You can't say anything, and the moment you make a statement about one thing, every starts trying to read into that or ask about a million other rumors. That is why you can't comment on the rumors, it's an endless downward spiral.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Actually the real reason is pretty mundane. It all breaks down to scheduling at this point. Server is still expecting to launch in Q3, so most of the rumors are pretty far off.

Sometimes it is frustrating to sit on the inside and know what is going on while all of the rumors swirl. You can't say anything, and the moment you make a statement about one thing, every starts trying to read into that or ask about a million other rumors. That is why you can't comment on the rumors, it's an endless downward spiral.

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I knew you were lurking ;) ,hope europe treats/treated you well.

However AMD could disperse all of the rumours pretty easily by issuing a simple press release explaining the what and how.

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Originally Posted by XRL8

I was referring to the alleged production capacity constraints.
In this field, they are making more money on a 300$ chip than Llano, as its going to be priced a lot less.If you can allot 100% of your production capacity, you choose the ones on which you make more $ per square milimeter dont you ?
BD chips are going to cost 250-300$, while Llano is athlon x4 with onboard gpu, we dont have exact die sizes, but for Llano cpu part should be around 100mm2 and looking at the die size another 100mm2 for the gpu, so 200mm2, and BD is rumoured around 250mm2 , so Llano is not much smaller (~25%) but will be priced a lot less.Thats my line of thinking.

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You might be right about BD but it could also be a bit bigger,Llano is 226-228mm2 and the notebook Llano might have better margins than desktop BD (server BD doesn't matter here since it's not delayed-apparently).Laptops are about two thirds of the PC market and where Llano aims to gain share.
That being said ,chip problems or lack of capacity it's still no good for AMD but from a marketing point of view it's better to not release both at the same time especially since Llano needs to be explained to consumers.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Actually the real reason is pretty mundane. It all breaks down to scheduling at this point. Server is still expecting to launch in Q3, so most of the rumors are pretty far off.

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A switch in positions? Server pushed ahead of desktops, like Charlie reports? http://semiaccurate.com/2011/06/02/b...d-not-delayed/

That makes sense, hopefully it is dicated by demand for those server chips. Cray are already waiting.

I understand and agree what you say about rumours floating around. I think AMD should be more aggressive here and react to them. I know you always said AMD doesn't release benchmarks before launch, but this looks like a good moment to make a little exception - to help the mobo's sell and to stop some competitor sales...

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Actually the real reason is pretty mundane. It all breaks down to scheduling at this point. Server is still expecting to launch in Q3, so most of the rumors are pretty far off.

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So the Destop Q2 campaign was launched by unicorns and goblins ? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by richierich

So you mean Anand heard wrong from someone? :D

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Well yes, wrong from this thread in particular.

The claimed FX-8130P launch speeds of 3.8GHz (4.2GHz turbo) misread
from Wombat's sheet here:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=498

While it actually says 3.2GHz +1.2GHz turbo... The misread numbers are
now all over the internets from BSN to Anandtech and so on....


Regards, Hans

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Originally Posted by Hans de Vries

Well yes, wrong from this thread in particular.

The claimed FX-8130P launch speeds of 3.8GHz (4.2GHz turbo) misread
from Wombat's sheet here:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=498

While it actually says 3.2GHz +1.2GHz turbo... The misread numbers are
now all over the internets from BSN to Anandtech and so on....


Regards, Hans

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well, we will see:shrug:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

I knew you were lurking ;) ,hope europe treats/treated you well.

However AMD could disperse all of the rumours pretty easily by issuing a simple press release explaining the what and how.

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We don't comment on unannounced products and definitely don't comment on rumors. Any customer that is under NDA with AMD knows the schedules.

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Originally Posted by DarthShader

A switch in positions? Server pushed ahead of desktops, like Charlie reports? http://semiaccurate.com/2011/06/02/b...d-not-delayed/

That makes sense, hopefully it is dicated by demand for those server chips. Cray are already waiting.

I understand and agree what you say about rumours floating around. I think AMD should be more aggressive here and react to them. I know you always said AMD doesn't release benchmarks before launch, but this looks like a good moment to make a little exception - to help the mobo's sell and to stop some competitor sales...

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I am not making any comments about client products. Because server and client are using the same architecture I was trying to be helpful in the past. I get slammed in forums, called a liar (and worse), I have obscenities posted to my blog. Sorry, done with that world. I don't have time for the hassle. Let the enthusiasts battle it out, I don't care to get involved in that any more.

On some level i find it all very hilarious.Im laughing out loud right now.
Also.
If thats a "sheduling issue".Why both server and desktop havent moved ?If you pull one product in while delaying other, thats a sheduling issue.When you delay one, while not moving other ones (Llano is on track), in SPITE of a earlier roadmap both official and unofficial ones.Thats a delay in my book, cant see how it can be viewed differently :).

EDIT:
While i posted JF posted first.
The best thing is it looks like EVERYONE spreads rumours, everyone is so in need of this info that even anand and other sites dont know jack for sure, even mobo makers doesnt seem to know.Pure anarchy.

All I am saying is that server is still set to launch in Q3.

XRL8: with server products has John right! Find it in history...But my brain is still good, I remember it :)

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Originally Posted by FlanK3r

XRL8: with server products has John right! Find it in history...But my brain is still good, I remember it :)

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Yes yes i know Flanker that your brain is good :p:, and yes server was Q3.Desktop was Q2 and now is Q3 also.I have not said otherwise Flanker :up:

maybe is good reason for delayed. Maybe nowwould be only paperlaunch BD in desktop and AMD want not this...Better launch later with good availaility. AMD si smaller than Intel and have lower production capacity. For me dont change nothing :). Still will waiitng at Zambezi, next year for Komodo etc...for rest of my life :D

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4852/knihap.jpg

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

We don't comment on unannounced products and definitely don't comment on rumors. Any customer that is under NDA with AMD knows the schedules.



I am not making any comments about client products. Because server and client are using the same architecture I was trying to be helpful in the past. I get slammed in forums, called a liar (and worse), I have obscenities posted to my blog. Sorry, done with that world. I don't have time for the hassle. Let the enthusiasts battle it out, I don't care to get involved in that any more.

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the internet has become a terrible place...
it use to fill with useful information.
but now it's filled with immature people who just want to anger anyone they can and Be right even if they're proven wrong with facts.

If you guys are so tired of the baseless rumors why don't you stop posting links to them in every forum known to man? They only do it because it gets them hits (ad $$$) otherwise they wouldn't have the incentive to make provocative BS up.

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Originally Posted by demonkevy666

the internet has become a terrible place...
it use to fill with useful information.
but now it's filled with immature people who just want to anger anyone they can and Be right even if they're proven wrong with facts.

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+2 - Don't let it get you down JF-AMD - your opinion is still highly respected, people find it much easier to type rubbish hiding behind keyboards than if they were to meet you in person mate (Bit like car drivers ;) )

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

I am not making any comments about client products. Because server and client are using the same architecture I was trying to be helpful in the past. I get slammed in forums, called a liar (and worse), I have obscenities posted to my blog. Sorry, done with that world. I don't have time for the hassle. Let the enthusiasts battle it out, I don't care to get involved in that any more.

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I was afraid it would happen some day and I am sorry to hear it did.

The point I am trying to get across is, you surely have noticed, being a member of several enthusiast boards, that there is huge interest, lots of emotion and anticipation regarding Bulldozer. So why not have a person from the desktop team come and be a "semioffcial watcher" - ie. monitor the temperatures, explain things, straighten out the fud, etc. That person would be more in the know regarding desktop and you wouldn't take any undeserved blame for what is happening outside your own yard. Lots of misunderstanding could be avoided that way. :)

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

I am not making any comments about client products. Because server and client are using the same architecture I was trying to be helpful in the past. I get slammed in forums, called a liar (and worse), I have obscenities posted to my blog. Sorry, done with that world. I don't have time for the hassle. Let the enthusiasts battle it out, I don't care to get involved in that any more.

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I'm sorry to hear that.
Could it be a bad forum choice? XS seems to be pretty well moderated.

AMD does not staff forums as a practice.

Since that is not a part of anyone's job; it is done on their personal time.

Would I rather go mountain biking or spend my time reading people calling me a "------- liar"? (also, they don't use the dashes....) Hmmmm, that is a tough one.

after Intel inventing the "paperlaunch" maybe AMD invents the "rumorlaunch" and then cancels it.
im one of the many people who bought a 2600k this week and no longer care how many times AMD gonna "slidelaunch" Bulldozer/Llano this year...
how comes Intel gave a preview with the SandyBridge...?
just a wild guess...maybe they care about us "enthusiasts":confused:
...guess were not worth it to AMD -we are worth a "cant comment" and "NDA" - well you dont want my money - you wont have it then.:down:

Just gotta take it on the chin and move on JF. I've been banned from 3 forums this week already just for standing up for my beloved AMD.

intel shill :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:s :D

If it's coming from the AMD side then it's just utter frustration because of the desperation to see AMD doing well. It'll pass, hopefully they'll feel stupid about it soon.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

AMD does not staff forums as a practice.

Since that is not a part of anyone's job; it is done on their personal time.

Would I rather go mountain biking or spend my time reading people calling me a "------- liar"? (also, they don't use the dashes....) Hmmmm, that is a tough one.

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Yeah,well, that's your fault for not leaking BD numbers :P
With some leaks folks would be calmer :D

On a serious note,as a marketing guy,don't you think that this silence is very frustrating for many instead of building excitement? If the chip is good, a small leak would build excitement and change the mood.

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Originally Posted by AAbenson

after Intel inventing the "paperlaunch" maybe AMD invents the "rumorlaunch" and then cancels it.
im one of the many people who bought a 2600k this week and no longer care how many times AMD gonna "slidelaunch" Bulldozer/Llano this year...
how comes Intel gave a preview with the SandyBridge...?
just a wild guess...maybe they care about us "enthusiasts":confused:
...guess were not worth it to AMD -we are worth a "cant comment" and "NDA" - well you dont want my money - you wont have it then.:down:

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Youre right about being more open.
but youre wrong on the part of caring.
Intel cares about the money, and invents new ways to milk you(us) from it.
If intel would care about "us" then it would not build sandy not overclockable, with half ass number of pcie lanes with a not fully working chipset (and im not talking about B2 fiasco, but lack of quicksync for p67).Oh, and while chipset got smaller and has less features, its still very expensive for mobo makers.Yea.Intel cares.
Youre gonna say "but SandyE!" yes, sandyE, the even more expensive x58.Yay.More money for intel with HUGE margins.For the stuff we should mostly get with current sandy more or less.
AMD is incompetent and lost its touch with the user base, and starts to (wants to) mimic all the bad companys out there like intel or apple.
Intel is so powerfull they can do anything they want, and theyre doing it in a way that sucks the most money from us.
Ah, great choices.

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Originally Posted by jjj

Yeah,well, that's your fault for not leaking BD numbers :P
With some leaks folks would be calmer :D

On a serious note,as a marketing guy,don't you think that this silence is very frustrating for many instead of building excitement? If the chip is good, a small leak would build excitement and change the mood.

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those small leaks can cost millions, or they were too small of a leak to be taken seriously and considered just a rumor.

How do leaks cost anything? Hell nowdays almost everybody leaks it's own products.

love the pic flank3r!!!

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Originally Posted by jjj

How do leaks cost anything? Hell nowdays almost everybody leaks it's own products.

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if intel knows the perf, they then have a lead on how to price accordingly, whether bad or good.

Intel knew the perf long ago and they most likely had estimates before there was silicon.Also they won't play with prices,they'll release higher clocked SKU's and lower the price accordingly for the existing ones (obvioulsy if needed) but that will happen with or without leaks.Look at Llano we already have rumours about more desktop Intel dual cores with HD3000 and more 17W notebook parts,as Intel prepares to respod to Llano.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

AMD does not staff forums as a practice.

Since that is not a part of anyone's job; it is done on their personal time.

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Geez. they don't pay you to post on forums, rub elbows with the users, etc?


I'm sorry dude, I didn't know it was something you did on personal time. That really sucks. And is really awesome.


Shows you realyl do enjoy your work, and still have at least a bit of passion left in what you do for a living.

I wish there was more like you.


:yepp:

Now, I can haz free stuffs?

:D

;)

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

I'm sorry dude, I didn't know it was something you did on personal time. That really sucks. And is really awesome.

Shows you really do enjoy your work, and still have at least a bit of passion left in what you do for a living.

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I would totally do that if I got a job in IT industry. Too bad the opportunities are so limited...

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Originally Posted by zalbard

I would totally do that if I got a job in IT industry. Too bad the opportunities are so limited...

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You know ,I waas complaining many years ago on here)well, OK, maybe only 3) about similar things, but guesss what?

I guess I gots me a job in IT again, doing reviews. Twas a total stroke of luck to happen upon the opportunity, but it does constitute 12-16 hour days, and alot of hard work.

And...I'm doing it all with one arm.:p: typing out reviews with one hand sucks, but I've gotten pretty good at it.:ROTF:

All that said, I've kinda realized that although it seems like it might be fun doing that sort of position, it can be pretty stressful too. I don't post often, but JF-AMD really has alot of my respect, and I cannot help myself but tell him, becasue I think I can identify with how he feels about it.

Pleasing everyone all the time, just isn't possible.

:shrug:

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Originally Posted by AAbenson

after Intel inventing the "paperlaunch" maybe AMD invents the "rumorlaunch" and then cancels it.
im one of the many people who bought a 2600k this week and no longer care how many times AMD gonna "slidelaunch" Bulldozer/Llano this year...
how comes Intel gave a preview with the SandyBridge...?
just a wild guess...maybe they care about us "enthusiasts":confused:
...guess were not worth it to AMD -we are worth a "cant comment" and "NDA" - well you dont want my money - you wont have it then.:down:

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Do you think sales enthusiasts market could bring AMD's stock goes up by 10% when AMD have the better product? NO

On enthusiasts themselves thought that chip companies earn a lot from the high end chips.

both Intel and AMD knows what is the best segment to bring them profit. If BD delays/postpone was giving way to Llano, this makes sense.

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Originally Posted by jjj

Yeah,well, that's your fault for not leaking BD numbers :P
With some leaks folks would be calmer :D

On a serious note,as a marketing guy,don't you think that this silence is very frustrating for many instead of building excitement? If the chip is good, a small leak would build excitement and change the mood.

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A small leak would end up costing far more in stalled sales and angry OEMs than it would ever bring in from revenue.

I've been in this business for 20 years. Please google "osborne effect". If you don't recognize the name osborne, I have proved my point.

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

A small leak would end up costing far more in stalled sales and angry OEMs than it would ever bring in from revenue.

I've been in this business for 20 years. Please google "osborne effect". If you don't recognize the name osborne, I have proved my point.

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Never mind "stalled sales". With your current delays, you're losing sales now and what's even worse, you're losing customer confidence in your product. I just purchased an Intel 2600K system. This will be the first Intel system I've owned since I had a Pentium III 600mhz 10+ years ago. The sad part is, if I even had the slightest idea that BD would be competitive with Intel's current offerings, I would've waited another 2 months. No released numbers equals AMD's lost sales. Too bad.

I know some of you may not remember anything from 15 years ago, but this exact type of abuse and insulting of JF-AMD is PRECISELY THE THING THAT VIRTUALLY KILLED THE FLIGHT SIM GENRE (AND KILLED OFF JANE'S) AND DROVE DEVELOPERS AWAY FROM THE USENET NEWSGROUPS IN THE LATE 1990'S.

It's absolutely funny how people to this day, STILL are incapable of learning from the past, and repeating the same crap over and over and over again.

Makes you wonder if their day to day lives are so stressful and horrible that they have to come bash an AMD rep for taking his own time (out of his own free will) to post on forums...

Hey. I've waited 12 years for Duke Nukem Forever, I can wait a couple more months for Bulldozer.

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Originally Posted by freeloader

Never mind "stalled sales". With your current delays, you're losing sales now and what's even worse, you're losing customer confidence in your product. I just purchased an Intel 2600K system. This will be the first Intel system I've owned since I had a Pentium III 600mhz 10+ years ago. The sad part is, if I even had the slightest idea that BD would be competitive with Intel's current offerings, I would've waited another 2 months. No released numbers equals AMD's lost sales. Too bad.

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I don't Agree, I feel the move to release Liano and focus attention on it is a better move. This APU has far more real world usage and will net more sales then BD desktop chips. I build a lot of HTPC's and have used the current Zacate a lot and look forward to Liano. Leaking BD results on a rev that isn't optimal would not spur any sales.;)

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Originally Posted by charged3800z24

I don't Agree, I feel the move to release Liano and focus attention on it is a better move. This APU has far more real world usage and will net more sales then BD desktop chips. I build a lot of HTPC's and have used the current Zacate a lot and look forward to Liano. Leaking BD results on a rev that isn't optimal would not spur any sales.;)

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Which chip has the higher profit margins? Just an FYI, it's Llano, not Liano. No one at AMD needs to release any benchmark numbers per se, but a general statement such as, "BD competes rather nicely against SB" or "BD bests current Intel offerings". Just my 2 cents worth.

BTW...AMD won't even tell anyone whether the delay is due to performance problems or whether they're just using GF's maximum capacity for Llano and have put BD on delay. I'm guessing the latter.

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Originally Posted by freeloader

Which chip has the higher profit margins? Just an FYI, it's Llano, not Liano.

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I'm not a spelling major :p: And deffinently cannot type;)
I believe it has been proven that the most money is made on the mid range chips. The OEMs are not out fitting the majority of systems with High end Desktop chips. The enthusiest is an even smaller peice of the pie. I sold a ton more Athlon 64 X2 4000 series chips then I ever did the FX chips. This holds true today, most systems sell have Dual core CPUs. Not to many people are intersted in high priced systems. And laptops and tablets, they always ask, "which one has the longest battery life" ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

A small leak would end up costing far more in stalled sales and angry OEMs than it would ever bring in from revenue.

I've been in this business for 20 years. Please google "osborne effect". If you don't recognize the name osborne, I have proved my point.

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Come on,maybe take a minute to think about what the Osborne effect is before dropping it like a first year student.You already preannounced the product and postponed the launch.One of the ways to counter the negative effects would be to leak some info to change the mood.After all ,all the blog posts about BD are just that.You noticed that some are getting angry,you see in forums all the rumors and crazy speculations , is that really how it should be?

Anyone who gets angry over a product should find a different hobby, maybe go outside and appreciate the fact that they're able to walk around freely, and enjoy their life, instead of being so helpless.

Anyone who is actually "angry" needs to go get counseling. Seriously. I can think of REAL things to be angry about. Like not having a place to live. Having a crippling disability. Losing your job. Having a friend gunned down. Get a reality check, please....

Frankly, we've had companies cater more and more heavily to this community over the past few years. How many overclocking competitions with such heavy sponsorship happened 5 years ago versus what happens today? The companies are listening directly to the community and implementing their ideas/wants. I have yet to see how many people show much in the way of gratitude. Yes, I'm sure there have been some increased sales, but half the time people are spending money only to later denigrate a product over 10mhz in their overclock, etc. It seems a bit ridiculous to me that a verbal "Thank you," never seems to be spoken, that people are so quick to badmouth products, time frames for release, etc. Yes, AMD is switching things around. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not. I don't why that means we have to take a hammer to their company name, reputation, and their reps (official or otherwise).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

A small leak would end up costing far more in stalled sales and angry OEMs than it would ever bring in from revenue.

I've been in this business for 20 years. Please google "osborne effect". If you don't recognize the name osborne, I have proved my point.

---

I dont think so.If AMD has a monster they need to leak out its performance,they are losing sales and once x79 boards are out from intel people will just say hell with AMD and switch to intel.

Stalled sales from what?do you think anyone is buying anything from AMD right now that sandy bridge chips are doing 5ghz on air?

How would putting out a leak stall sales?If you leak out a monster power house then yeah it will stall sales,but sales from people buying intel and will make them wait for BD

serioulsy how does AMD fail so bad.If you have the goods,you need to let people know about them,like your stock investors that are dumping there shares.

I mean I have a friend that works at fidelity and he even told me to dump amd as they are delaying again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

AMD does not staff forums as a practice.

Since that is not a part of anyone's job; it is done on their personal time.

Would I rather go mountain biking or spend my time reading people calling me a "------- liar"? (also, they don't use the dashes....) Hmmmm, that is a tough one.

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Wait, so you are not posting as an AMD worker to push the company or give us exclusive info? If you really meant that then you would have just posted as another random enthusiast like the rest of us instead of announcing you are from AMD.

"Hey guys I work for AMD and I will be posting on this tech forum now! Don't worry though I'm just another guy like all of you and nothing I say speaks for AMD so treat me like everyone else ok?"

^^If you're not doing this to push your company then you are doing it to get attention. It's your own fault if the attention you get isn't always what you want. If you don't like it then stop joining tech forums and then shouting to everyone you work for AMD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Falkentyne

I know some of you may not remember anything from 15 years ago, but this exact type of abuse and insulting of JF-AMD is PRECISELY THE THING THAT VIRTUALLY KILLED THE FLIGHT SIM GENRE (AND KILLED OFF JANE'S) AND DROVE DEVELOPERS AWAY FROM THE USENET NEWSGROUPS IN THE LATE 1990'S.

It's absolutely funny how people to this day, STILL are incapable of learning from the past, and repeating the same crap over and over and over again.

Makes you wonder if their day to day lives are so stressful and horrible that they have to come bash an AMD rep for taking his own time (out of his own free will) to post on forums...

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Obviously, kids with no jobs. Derp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charged3800z24

I don't Agree, I feel the move to release Liano and focus attention on it is a better move. This APU has far more real world usage and will net more sales then BD desktop chips. I build a lot of HTPC's and have used the current Zacate a lot and look forward to Liano. Leaking BD results on a rev that isn't optimal would not spur any sales.;)

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Not sure I agree with you completely charged...
I'm sure Llano will sell more parts (especially to OEMs), and if BD needs another spin to improve performance then it's definetly the right move!

If it is just a matter of capacity though, dedicating a small portion of the line to BD and making the parts available in limited supply (at a price premium;)) would seem to make more sense to me...
I'm not trying to be a "Debbie Downer", but I do find it strange that we still don't have any official info on Llano performance yet either.
I really expected at least a demo and some numbers from Computex. :(
If we don't see anything Llano from E3 in a couple weeks I'm going to be pretty dissappointed!

BTW: For all the AMD haters in here, don't take this as any kind of rumor... :shakes:
I have absolutly NO inside information, just a personal observation!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xVeinx

Frankly, we've had companies cater more and more heavily to this community over the past few years. How many overclocking competitions with such heavy sponsorship happened 5 years ago versus what happens today? The companies are listening directly to the community and implementing their ideas/wants. I have yet to see how many people show much in the way of gratitude. Yes, I'm sure there have been some increased sales, but half the time people are spending money only to later denigrate a product over 10mhz in their overclock, etc. It seems a bit ridiculous to me that a verbal "Thank you," never seems to be spoken, that people are so quick to badmouth products, time frames for release, etc. Yes, AMD is switching things around. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not. I don't why that means we have to take a hammer to their company name, reputation, and their reps (official or otherwise).

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Well said, and I agree 100%!
I'd personally like to take this chance to say Thank You to JF-AMD and Hans. :up:
Ignore the nay sayers, the quiet majority appreciates your input... :yepp:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by .Tret

Wait, so you are not posting as an AMD worker to push the company or give us exclusive info? If you really meant that then you would have just posted as another random enthusiast like the rest of us instead of announcing you are from AMD.

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Seriously dude, Did you even bother to read his sig?
He states quite clearly that his opinions are his own... :shakes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by .Tret

Wait, so you are not posting as an AMD worker to push the company or give us exclusive info? If you really meant that then you would have just posted as another random enthusiast like the rest of us instead of announcing you are from AMD.

"Hey guys I work for AMD and I will be posting on this tech forum now! Don't worry though I'm just another guy like all of you and nothing I say speaks for AMD so treat me like everyone else ok?"

^^If you're not doing this to push your company then you are doing it to get attention. It's your own fault if the attention you get isn't always what you want. If you don't like it then stop joining tech forums and then shouting to everyone you work for AMD.

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It is in the forum rules that employees have to declare the fact. Having admins find out after = Ban. It's happened before. So, he's not doing it for attention, but because he's required to ;).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skratch

I dont think so.If AMD has a monster they need to leak out its performance,they are losing sales and once x79 boards are out from intel people will just say hell with AMD and switch to intel.

Stalled sales from what?do you think anyone is buying anything from AMD right now that sandy bridge chips are doing 5ghz on air?

How would putting out a leak stall sales?If you leak out a monster power house then yeah it will stall sales,but sales from people buying intel and will make them wait for BD

serioulsy how does AMD fail so bad.If you have the goods,you need to let people know about them,like your stock investors that are dumping there shares.

I mean I have a friend that works at fidelity and he even told me to dump amd as they are delaying again.

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not all SB going to 5 GHz. I have/had 3 chips and no one can get 5 GHz stable...The best from this 3 is about at 4950 MHz with 1.5V.
Think, only 10% of SB can 5 GHz stable, what we see in forums are better chips, nobody from enthusiants will showing 4500-4700 MHz average chip:).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazydiamond

love the pic flank3r!!!

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:D:up: Im too

I am just a little bit appalled at how there is so much garbage floating about leakages needed from AMD in order not to lose revenue,

Without nothing behind that argument than (Oh man I am hanging to buy a computer, I just want the fastest either SB-E or BD) provides nothing but a total lack of understanding of what the company is trying to achieve by not releasing any preliminary information.

I for one would also love to see what BD has to offer, but pissing and moaning would be a very good indicative that I would be committing the act of "trolling" a.k.a talking garbage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by freeloader

Never mind "stalled sales". With your current delays, you're losing sales now and what's even worse, you're losing customer confidence in your product. I just purchased an Intel 2600K system. This will be the first Intel system I've owned since I had a Pentium III 600mhz 10+ years ago. The sad part is, if I even had the slightest idea that BD would be competitive with Intel's current offerings, I would've waited another 2 months. No released numbers equals AMD's lost sales. Too bad.

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AAbenson clone?

it is ok to get Intel's chip. no hard feelings. :cool:

is it still OK to wait for Via to merge Cyrix.....wait are they sill making Chips?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skratch

I dont think so.If AMD has a monster they need to leak out its performance,they are losing sales and once x79 boards are out from intel people will just say hell with AMD and switch to intel.

Stalled sales from what?do you think anyone is buying anything from AMD right now that sandy bridge chips are doing 5ghz on air?

How would putting out a leak stall sales?If you leak out a monster power house then yeah it will stall sales,but sales from people buying intel and will make them wait for BD

serioulsy how does AMD fail so bad.If you have the goods,you need to let people know about them,like your stock investors that are dumping there shares.

I mean I have a friend that works at fidelity and he even told me to dump amd as they are delaying again.

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That only means your friend is clueless, something that I don't find all that surprising.

AMD gained market share last quarter btw, in both desktop and server. Do you try to fail with every post or does it just come to you naturally?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FlanK3r

not all SB going to 5 GHz. I have/had 3 chips and no one can get 5 GHz stable...The best from this 3 is about at 4950 MHz with 1.5V.
Think, only 10% of SB can 5 GHz stable, what we see in forums are better chips, nobody from enthusiants will showing 4500-4700 MHz average chip:).

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http://tof.canardpc.com/view/dccaf4e...f293a26ebf.jpg

Quote:

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mean oc is 5300MHz

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http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16541&page=23

That's more 5% who can't pass 5GHz :yepp: :p:

Guys, its pointless. JF has to say, what his current company policy says.He CANT say otherwise, even if he would think differently.
JF also CANT say anything of substance about BD for us, thats a company policy too.He cant violate that without risking his job or even lawsuit.And i bet he likes his job.
Of course the fact that we have Llano preview, which negates totally what he said is a sad fact.
Fact of the matter is, Intel doesnt believe in total utmost secrecy either says something too.
That of course DOES NOT mean BD is in some kind of trouble or is weak, it may be or may not be.Its just that AMD lacks good leadership, its probably full of people who dont want any responsibility to take on their shoulders, lack of CEO clearly shows that.Its politics.
Im really hoping that someone with 990fx and B1 BD chip will leak something soon :).If not, peeps, there comes a thing that we waited even longer than BD.
Duke is back ;-)

EDIT: Oh, and we had zacate preview also.Damn osborne.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FlanK3r

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4852/knihap.jpg

:rofl:

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Is that John? ;)

Dresden: maybe ,-), but my reaction on this will be the same :)

Olivon: this is only validation or sometimes max post. My X6 1090t can post 4550 MHz too...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haylui

Originally Posted by freeloader View Post
Never mind "stalled sales". With your current delays, you're losing sales now and what's even worse, you're losing customer confidence in your product. I just purchased an Intel 2600K system. This will be the first Intel system I've owned since I had a Pentium III 600mhz 10+ years ago. The sad part is, if I even had the slightest idea that BD would be competitive with Intel's current offerings, I would've waited another 2 months. No released numbers equals AMD's lost sales. Too bad. :cool:

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you ever heard about Facebook?
ever heard it is what it is because of "word of mouth" and early "enthusiasts"?
ever heard its market cap is about $50 billion?
does this mean nothing to you?
...but yea,i agree BSing around with all the "enthusiasts" and hardcore AMD-fans is the right way to go...
...where did all the tech-buzz at Apple come from after Jobs rejoined the company....from pointless slideshows and 2 year plans?
...or maybe you too young to remember Apple from the days before Jobs rejoined--->a clue:it was what the AMD management is today.
Apple no longer mistreats its hardcore fanbase.
it milks them-yes but AMD style anti-marketing with its fans...:rofl:

There should be a "Whining sissies disclaimer" in this thread :shakes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FlanK3r

Olivon: this is only validation or sometimes max post. My X6 1090t can post 4550 MHz too...

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I can do 5350MHz 4C/8T on Cinebench R11.5 64bit air and that doesn't mean I got a gem.

3 sample minus 5GHz is really über bad luck, trust me :yepp:

Cinbebench I can 5200 MHZ, but PRIME 95 under 5 GHz...

For how long though.;)

That's the interesting thing here Flank3r - put SB under some REAL stress - i.e. Prime95 and you will find less than 5% can hit 5Ghz :) - I proved this on another forum lol

Coming back to the point about those crying foul about AMD delaying something - Funny, Intel go and release SB, screw up the mainboards and everyone is 'patient' to wait - rather than screaming. AMD delay something and they go crying like babies to Intel - its hilarious how some people lack patience in one camp but another have all the patience in the world lol.....Best things come to those who wait.

PS - I buy AMD because they are not promoting 'concentration camps' in other parts of the world (aka Intel pumping monies into Israel's economy). That and their 100% proven monopolistic practises are shameful - ANY computer enthusiast should refuse to purchase from them on principal - Prices of CPU's would still be in the thousands if it wasn't for AMD. Even if they have an inferior product I would still refuse to buy Intel :p:

How does AMD deal with the en abatable; Intel releasing a SB 2700K, and price cuts to current SB processors? More delays make DB less relevant. It is not the time for AMD to be quite.

zoomee: how much paid you Intel for this words ,-)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zoomee

Coming back to the point about those crying foul about AMD delaying something - Funny, Intel go and release SB, screw up the mainboards and everyone is 'patient' to wait - rather than screaming.

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Screaming is what this forum and pretty much each section (including unrelated ones) was full of when people found out.
Selective memory, I guess.
That being said, performance wasn't hurt and most boards were fully operational (not many people use more than 2 drives). Quite a huge screw up either way, though.
And people were waiting because they already knew that performance and overclockability were awesome. There was nothing else to buy that would be remotely as good (for $).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dresdenboy

Is that John? ;)

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No, but he looks remarkably like "Danno" from the old Hawaii Five-O series back in the (70's?).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hans de Vries

Well yes, wrong from this thread in particular.

The claimed FX-8130P launch speeds of 3.8GHz (4.2GHz turbo) misread
from Wombat's sheet here:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=498

While it actually says 3.2GHz +1.2GHz turbo... The misread numbers are
now all over the internets from BSN to Anandtech and so on....


Regards, Hans

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I would not believe that sheet either. I happen to know what the real slide looks like and not the Photoshopped version. ;) Plus it does not hurt to have an actual CPU on my desk. :p:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bingo13

I would not believe that sheet either. I happen to know what the real slide looks like and not the Photoshopped version. ;) Plus it does not hurt to have an actual CPU on my desk. :p:

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:rofl:

:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AAbenson

you ever heard about Facebook?
ever heard it is what it is because of "word of mouth" and early "enthusiasts"?
ever heard its market cap is about $50 billion?
does this mean nothing to you?
...but yea,i agree BSing around with all the "enthusiasts" and hardcore AMD-fans is the right way to go...
...where did all the tech-buzz at Apple come from after Jobs rejoined the company....from pointless slideshows and 2 year plans?
...or maybe you too young to remember Apple from the days before Jobs rejoined--->a clue:it was what the AMD management is today.
Apple no longer mistreats its hardcore fanbase.
it milks them-yes but AMD style anti-marketing with its fans...:rofl:

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Personally, I don't think any other fan base will have the same passion as Apple's fans. Not even Intel's fans.
Do you buy Intel 2600k just because your friends show off their purchase on FB? I don't see this would cause any effect to average-joe.
People will certainly be very interested in latest ipad, iphone or ipod but not processor. lolz.

edit:
p/s: even Android system tablets or phones could not create the same enthusiastic fans base. Better not expect AMD would have such fan base.

Mass Hysterical Hypnosis?

We are all so eager for REAL news but I'm willing to wait patiently. Some delays are the Foundries fault anyway.

The only reason I'm annoyed at this is because I do reviews. 990FX coming out means new boards, new boards means reviews to be done, which means I need to get a CPU that makes tests relevant (as I just recently became the AMD reviewer, and my personal rig only has a 555BE [which is a cripple]). Not to mention Llano coming out, meaning having to get another chip, totally blowing my whole budget for BD when it finally comes out :( If AMD would show the site I'm at a bit'o'lovin, I wouldn't be as annoyed, and to be honest a little bummed out/depressed too! I've been quite excited about BD coming out, which having a friend with dual Interlagos saying how awesome they performed only fueled that excitement. Though unfortunately since he cherishes his job too, that's all he's said on the matter, despite my efforts :\ lol

*sigh*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Formula350

The only reason I'm annoyed at this is because I do reviews. 990FX coming out means new boards, new boards means reviews to be done, which means I need to get a CPU that makes tests relevant (as I just recently became the AMD reviewer, and my personal rig only has a 555BE [which is a cripple]). Not to mention Llano coming out, meaning having to get another chip, totally blowing my whole budget for BD when it finally comes out :( If AMD would show the site I'm at a bit'o'lovin, I wouldn't be as annoyed, and to be honest a little bummed out/depressed too! I've been quite excited about BD coming out, which having a friend with dual Interlagos saying how awesome they performed only fueled that excitement. Though unfortunately since he cherishes his job too, that's all he's said on the matter, despite my efforts :\ lol

*sigh*

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just ask him bench in CB and compare with SB and tell you whether it is close to SB, not so close or surpasses SB in terms of IPC.
:D:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haylui

just ask him bench in CB and compare with SB and tell you whether it is close to SB, not so close or surpasses SB in terms of IPC.
:D:D

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He cant directly compare it to sb as interlagos is dual cpu server chip, and there are no SB ones for server afaik.However that doesnt matter, we only would need a score and speed of the cpus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haylui

just ask him bench in CB and compare with SB and tell you whether it is close to SB, not so close or surpasses SB in terms of IPC.
:D:D

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

He cant directly compare it to sb as interlagos is dual cpu server chip, and there are non of those for server afaik.However that doesnt matter, we only would need a score and speed of the cpus.

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I doubt he'd even do that lol While I only know him online, I've known him for many years, and we're good friends. He bought me my first S939 Athlon 64 since he got a good deal on OEM version from HP. He previously had dual 12C Magnys and all he's told me is: Bulldozer's performance is amazing, that they overclocked past 4GHz no problem and they run very cool under load (don't recall the exact temp, but it was only in the mid-30s C). I mean, he told me his WoW performance, but... when you're running dual GTX580s, have a grip of memory and dual chips... outstanding framerate in WoW is going ot be a given lol So that's not something really worth comparing :\ Apparently though, it was still quite a bit better then his Magny's.

Yea the only SB based Xeons are just uniprocessor S1155 chips. The only one of any interest looks to be the models w/o graphics, but only then they'd be interesting just for overclocking, I doubt they are all that much faster then a SB with the IGP disabled.

Not to be a party pooper Formula, but server boards dont have OC options.At the very least he should have multiplier option if he has unlocked ES chip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zoomee

PS - I buy AMD because they are not promoting 'concentration camps' in other parts of the world (aka Intel pumping monies into Israel's economy). That and their 100% proven monopolistic practises are shameful - ANY computer enthusiast should refuse to purchase from them on principal - Prices of CPU's would still be in the thousands if it wasn't for AMD. Even if they have an inferior product I would still refuse to buy Intel :p:

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Then you should consider stopping using AMD cpus also because AMD recently opened R&D center in Israel.
http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/6/2/amd-...ciitiy-israel/
And since IBM is also a big investor into Israel's economy I guess it leaves you with tablet CPUs only. But again, almost every major IT/Hardware firm has facility or R&D in Israel (including Quallcom, TI, Microsoft e.t.c) so you probably will have hard time to find device which has no "connection" to Israel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XRL8

Not to be a party pooper Formula, but server boards dont have OC options.At the very least he should have multiplier option if he has unlocked ES chip.

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Well since I can't get info out of him we only can assume it's either the Turbo he was referring to (though he said overclocks, so I dunno), like you said the multipliers, or the (as I understood it) pre-production SuperMicro board. Pretty sure it's not a server board though since it has mutliple full bandwidth PCIe x16 slots, so it'd be a Workstation board. Those could have overclock options (at least back in the day they did) :) I posted this in the other BD thread, but I'd give a kidney for this thing, screw a damn iPad!! lol