Nice one Splave :) SLI soon?
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Nice one Splave :) SLI soon?
1450 so far but I have some tricks now :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by chuchnit
Quake, Thanks man! SLI is tomorrow. I need to pll mod my other card, really helps alot.
Nice run Splave:up:
Great run Al! We've not seen any gains from PLL here, what effect does it have for you?
Havnt seen any PLL gains here, only briefly tested but didn't seem to help with temps or stability
How is it helping you sp?
I figured I'd join in too.
http://imup.se/t/KFu4JGxywr.jpg
Specs:
ASUS Rampage III Extreme
ASUS GTX580 DirectCu II
Intel Core i7-990X
Corsair CMGTX2 3x2GB
Enermax Revolution 1050W
Coolermaster Lab testbench
SF3D Inflection Point
Fat Ryba GPU pot
Result: P9728 in 3DMark 11 (for the MOA qualifiers, if anyone asks)
http://imup.se/t/XfyVLrKgat.jpg
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/2139402_
http://3dmark.com/3dm11/814802
Nice hardware! :D
Excellent work Jonas! :toast:
Yep good result Jonas.
Nice mate :)
Nanok and I just got a lot of troubles, seems like a boring 580 CUII we got :(
Thank you very much. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by G H Z
I'm not dissatisfied at my own effort at least this far. You guys still have till friday to get things working, I'm sure you'll figure something out. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by noxon
I seem to have a bad one also... spent about 40 liters on it... has some real problems with voltage and core clocks..
Over 1.45 and over 1200, will not work.... lower voltage up to 1297 was the max.... pretty disappointing... Have another all modded....hopefully its not as bad as the other..
Unless I raise PLL my card will not accept over -125c while idle in win7. Crashes the display driver :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by elmor
Tried to play more heaven yesterday but 1450/1358 seems to be the best it will do. Test 16 crashes over 1.6v ever time.
Trying 2nd card today. All potted and ready to go :)
You poor thing.... rofl.... I hate you.... rofl....Quote:
Originally Posted by Splave
Good luck on the 2nd card...
For my brother Vince........ :D
I'm coming..... ;) :D
http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip..._1506_1301.png
Guess who's back, back again :D
Oh yeah! :D
OMG 1,5Ghz clock? o_O
Good to see you back in the game George! Insane card :DQuote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
what will this card clock like in others 3Ds? 1700+? :D
Finally! Waiting for your results soo long Hipro5 ! :clap:
F(l)uck you! Where's 1700+ 03 georgie? :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
@steponz what psu are you using? there seems to be a very heavy issue with multi rail psu - past 1.4 or 1.45 = epic fail. Seems that the beast named "580 GTX CUII" will eat more than 35A on every 12V rail on every 8-Pin. I haven't seen a multi rail PSU that can handle the card in any way.
a work around for new enermax PSUs (e.g. 1250 Revolution85+):
- use an adaptor to make 2x 8 Pin of several rails going to 1x 8 Pin
- do that with 4 separated 12V-rails
- so you have 4 rails going on 2x 8 Pin = 120A / 60 A per channel --> that is enough up to 1.6V+
- use the 5th rail for CPU and Board
Additionally - did anybody figured out the "crack bug" yet? After Cebit stummerwinter and me was of the opinion it is not the thermal paste and the cooler itself that makes that sound but the heatspreader and the gpu-core - any thoughts? we could hear something similar on 990X fullpot with the same issues afterwards so it might not be the paste it might be the hs and die...
i got the same issues (cracking noise) with arctic silver ceramique and as 4 on gulftown cpus when cooling down too fast.
as this is offtopic i suggest pm :)
Looking good hipro, welcome back :up:
Combination containers (CU+ALU) have different shrink/expansion rates between the two materials. Under extreme cooling those differences are greatly magnified, that crack or snap is friction between the two parts of the container. If you had a sound of that magnitude originating from the GPU core/IHS, you wouldn't have a working card anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
No definitly not - we are talking about full CU containers here. but as the hs is ALU (???) and container is CU - maybe there's your problem? do we need to build ALU containers then? Now that would be :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by G H Z
After that "crack" the card won't run 1300 anymore (after passing 1600+ 03 GT3 &4 before), maybe 1200 when you are lucky. after warm-up and remount --> 1600+ again...I can tell you that was PITA during cebit ^^
@oanvoanc I don't think that's OT - that's one of the basics you need to know about CUII and it would be my pleasure to speak about that in public and togehter with thoose guys who maybe have the most experience with CU II. If more ppl. think this is not of major interest, ok I'll go pm then ;)
Did you restart the rig after the crack? Or was all this during the same windows session? I thought the pot you guys used was copper and aluminum?
just did a little edit you maybe haven't read yet:)
we used like 3 or 4 different pot designs on that card - that was when stummerwinter decided to build his own new pot. the "fill in" part is alu but the base is CU. that crack definitily does not come from it due to the MHZ-issues I explained some minutes earlier.
So we can rule out that this crack comes from the container itself. It must be something related to HS / DIE or HS / Pot.
I think marcus has a hint which paste works best but I can't remember atm (sitting in a hotel far away from home after a "monstrous" set of weizen :D :D :D )
There's an easy solution :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SoF
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/55589/polsilver_powered.jpg
I use Freeze and never get the crack :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
Although there seems to be different batches of freeze some is as dark as a pencil lead and other is nearly white. :)
Hey SoF,
The issue you discribe isnt really new. Me and elmor experienced the same when pretesting 480 Lightning before MOA 2010 finals. We're using OCZ Freeze thermalpaste. It's conductivity seems great, until around -160 when it suddently freezes and cracks. Here's some data about that: link
one workaround would be to contestly bench and not stay in idle for long, so even with the VGA pot filled the GPU itself will not get any colder than -160. Or when things crash and you may need to reboot and such ... always keep high voltage applied. VID mod with +400 like elmor and kinc posted should work great i would imagine. At the time when running Lightning, we didnt do any such mods, and had do keep stuff warm with heatguns.
So when hearing that crack, you'd definitly have to back off and let the card and thermalpaste heat up a bit. Then things should be just fine :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splave
That was what I wanted to do on cebit after remounting for the 4th time but christian from asus hold me back :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Foyle
when I was on the first run on thursday with stuwi we cooled the card down to ~-100 and let it run GT 3 and GT4. then we went down to ~-150°C and tested GT3/GT4 another time. Then we wanted to go full fire - 1625 on the core and full pot...GT1 passed, GT2 passed, GT3...middle.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ME4ME
....CRACK!!!!
...reboot, 1200 ok, 1300 fail...
...and it happened another 3 or 4 times we got that crack not in idle but under load. I had the feeling that ultra-hot load on the one side and ultra-cold on the other side just couldn't work together well :confused:
At some point I gave up and wanted to throw everything in the corner as that problem really cranked me up ^^ I have one 580 CU II at home and one sended to rma today - before making them cold again I need to figure out more about this issue...
We have solution for thermal issues:
http://sf3d.pp.fi/images/ASUS%20GTX%...0II/indium.jpg
Indium foil does not resist heat at all. It is soft enough and does not care about cold.
We have tested it many times with AMD Phenoms in the past, so it is not a new thing for us.
In this form 1kg of indium would cost 100 000€, but luckily you can use it multiple times.
My card can run Unigine heaven around 1420MHz, so let's see does indium help anything.
I hope to test it on upcoming weekend.
E: forgot. Sick score in 3dm11 Hipro5!
^ancient finnish secret?
Hehe..don't know about ancient or secret :) We used it first time in 2009, but because it is very expensive I have not been thinking of it.
I just like to try it and see how it does. At least there is nothing to clean after test session.
If I remember correctly, macci used that a few years back. Mike had some $150 thermal grease @ GOOC last time, he swore by it.
1st: perfect print of the pot - good mounting! :D
2nd: good info
3rd: Indium foil? Doesn't sound common to me - any more info about these things? I just know "liquid metal paste" some time ago in germany, but is it the same?
Indium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndiumQuote:
Originally Posted by SoF
Very rare soft metal. The foil is 99,9% pure indium, so there is practically no heat recistance.
Thermal conductivity comparison:
OCZ Freeze = 3.8 W/m-K
Titan Nano = 4.5 W/m-K
Indium metal (+foil) = 81.8 W/m-K
Liquid metal pastes are Gallium + Indium combination, where gallium is the main part. Gallium is slightly toxic and it does expand when it is getting colder. So it can not be used with ln2.
i found great improvments with ICD7....with AF7 i'm stuck 100MHz down respect to ICD7.
where can you buy Indium ?
We have a lot o issues with our card also. We have to heat the pcb with two heat guns all the time. At the end we have manage to run 1420/1330 for 3DMark11 and take world record with 10280 points.:D
http://www.hwbox.gr/images/imagehost...8768634640.jpg
@aristidis : what thermal paste ?
Titan nano but my opinion is that we have to use a pot with some distance from PCB...
Here..Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
http://www.cmr-direct.com/product_in...roducts_id=683
or..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INDIUM-99-99-F...item35af0d34b0
They were the first hits I had just with Google :D
Need to tell stuwi - gotta prepare a week-end with him, 580 GTX CUII and some indium stuph :D thanks man for sharing!Quote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
Just check that you have good contact. It is not as easy with indium as it is with thermal pastes.
The proper way to use indium would be to heat the copper to the melting point of the indium and solder it and the pot to the IHS of the card........
Using in the solid form that you are using it in won't work any mircacles.
Also the conductivity charts you are showing are at like normal temps.
Indium actually sucks conductivity wise at like say -192........
Also last but not least the point of using it is direct to core and not to an IHS which then has paste........the whole point is to eliminate all the thermal barriers.....in a perfect world you would solder the POT direct to the die of the GPU.
First to manage soldering the pot direct to die of GPU without killing it gets a cookie. :D
Double post but that crack you guys are hearing is the bond snapping from the paste you guys are using.
The heat generated by GPU and the cold generated and the large shift in temp delta is enough to snap the bond.
I know this becasue i bench at -192 90% of the time, Been through various pastes to find pastes that actually don't freeze which in turn can not crack the bond....
Sounds like some serious heat dump.......takes a 6 core thuban in wprime at 6.3+ to create those circumstances.....
after the crack any loading of the gpu sounds like something boiling under pot doesn't it ;)
You can verify this, just unbolt pot cold real quick after the crack, don't let it defrost, it will pop right off and not be "stuck" to gpu anymore.
Feel sad with mine GTX 580 CUII
I modded one and reached 1400/1210 Mhz 3DM06 with just 10 LN2 liters in the first day...but the card was not mine (i modded to a friend)...
Yesterday i full mod mine...
VID mod 0.4 Volts
VRAM, VGPU and VPLL working fine (each mod with a switcher on/off)...
CBB Mod (joined the 3 points)
OCP Overall and OCP per Phase
Did try:
VID 0,4 + Smart Doctor (1,0 to 1.18V)
VID 0,4 + VMod (same)
But no one settings works fine...
Only way worked was only VID 0,4 + stock Voltage - about 1220 Mhz vantage (sucks...worst than the old GTX 580 reference)
Ram...the worst..
Did try all voltages - 1.74 to 2.1V and can t reach more than 1200 Mhz
PLL did try on (trimpot - 1.2 ... 1.35V)...and off stock Voltage... no change
Lots of issues...the card can run ok and no coldbug...but i can't add GPU voltage (Smartdoctor or trimpot) that the system crashes at the middle of benchmark...
I don t know why the card is not good....but can t understand the videocard can pass 1.4V (down to 1.35 in the middle of benchmark) 1220 / 1200 Mhz...but appear to be the limit of the card...
The Videocard can't go more than 1220 mhz with any voltage...
I think MINE VGA sucks...no lucky with this one
something can't be right there - EVERY CUII can do 1400+ easy, there must be a mod maybe not sitting correctly or whatever but it is impossible that a CUII can't pass 1300...(except me beeing the one benching it with a multi-rail PSU during cebit :ROTF: )
What PSU are you using??
I think there is an issue with some cards... I was using a corsair 1200, single rail... Not the issue... Used multiple tims...
My card would hate voltage, anything over 1.34 volts would fail @ higher then 1200..
Did hit 1297 2 times @ 1.34..
No matter what high voltage bombed on my card...
Which s/n batch your cards? B1XXXX or B2XXXXQuote:
Originally Posted by steponz
so, this means that the Antec 1200 (no oc version) sucks for this job..?Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
My first DCII was able of 1200mhz core only, no matter voltage.
Was using antec tpq-1200 and tryed revo1250w too.
I'll try second in these days
max 1200/1300 temp idel -196c an load -176 to -186c
psu CoolerMaster Silent Pro Gold 1000W
No...Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
I modded another CU2 same way and reached easy 1394 in a few minutes...
Not all cards can get higger frequency...
The mods are correct and working fine.
Steponz card haves the same issues than mine i think..
I can t use more than a VID mod (+0,4) and the bench will crash...max ~1.35V and get about 1220 Mhz Vantage...
Thats mine VGA issue
TPQ 1200 Antec
multi rail okay here :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules/NDR...0/DSC05308.jpg
Great job as usual Splave ;)
Splave....THAT'S SICK!! Glad you found a good un!!! :up::up:
killing it as usual bud, thats what I like to see:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Splave
looks like you found a nice chip as well congrats
seems like multirail is okey also. I use the antec 1200 and after some modding the card runs 1400Mhz Vantage.. almost.. hehe.. losing about 17C in the start of tests, thats the reason. (at 1.57v)
1353Mhz went fine at 1.51v. I ran pll 1.31, vmem 1.89v and vgpu 1.51v.
no coldbug is SWEET! or CBB.. -186 all the time.. ahhh
EDIT: my insulation and info on the card: http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=1311993
Looking good dpa :up:
Nice to see you back in the game dpa! Good looking setup :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dpa
Quote:
Originally Posted by G H Z
thanks. changed to a fat tek now, seems to be better.. tho I got some memory artifacts after 5min.. need to fix that issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinc
Insulating the room around the core, especially mems, with eraser is not the best way. Maybe mems are getting cold and that keeps you back.
seems like my max in vantage is 1375mhz... remounted the pot, and used more paper between pot and pcb.. seems like there is no artifacts anymore now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sofos1990
with PPL mod done and tuned at 50kohm (starting position) how much VPLL do you read ?
it's normal i have 1,25V ? i havent touched the VR, only soldered and tuned at 50K
^ sounds about right, I think I had 1.27v
Guys that have cards that suck, how are they failing? Do they cut the power to your computer? BSOD? Straight freeze the display?
so it's normal that with 50Kohm VR i have a gain of +0.2V ? without mod is 1,05V lol :D
10 failing are : 8/10 grey screen, 1/10 BBSD, 1/10 reset
lol :D
seems like reset driver is temp related.. using noctua paste atm and it totally sucks (this retail tube is VERY "watered").. the bundled version is alot harder and darker.Quote:
Originally Posted by KanGaXx
what paste are you using splave?
Today I did some testing with my second Direct CU II card. This card is very impressive, but I did not manage to get satisfying results out today. I thought to share my findings.
The way I test the card is following:
Voltages I use are:
(Antec HCP PSU or corsair AX 1200W)
VGPU 1.55V-1.6V
VPLL stock -1.35V
VMem 1.88-1.9V
(Full pot temperature from sensor is -174, so values are not 100% correct. They will just give the idea about it)
1.) Use OCZ freeze thermal paste. It is clearly the best for this use. Use a lot of it.
2.) Cool down to -60C and see if 1200MHz works. If no artifacts and issues, go to step 3.
3.) Cool down to -80C and see if 1300MHz works. If no artifacts and issues, go to step 4.
4.) Cool down to -120C and see if 1400MHz works. If no artifacts and issues, go to step 5.
5.) Cool down to around -130C and try to run Hwbot Unigine heaven at 1450MHz. Go colder after the start of the benchmark.
The issue I have is, that when I go over -135C without 3D load, I hear that crack or snap and card wont run at all. The contact between GPU pot and core just get loose and the bondage between them is lost.
Then i just back down to 1200MHz and let Hwbot heaven benchmark run 30 seconds. After that you are usually able to continue :up:
The load these cards produce is so huge, that contact between GPU and pot must be optimal. I think my main issue have been too tight and too firm contact. I need to learn how to install pot "badly" to get it working better..locigal haha.
So the ones who struggle with their cards, start slowly with temperature and check that pattern I wrote with the clocks your card can do for sure.
Most of them should be able to hit those same values with same voltages and temperatures. If you have direct lockup in the beginning, your contact have gone bad by too cold temperature. Then you need to back down and try again after short warm up.
If you have colorful "stars" on the screen it is most likely bad contact and too high clocks for it. The same frequency can usually be done without any "stars" on the screen, when contact is ok.
I don't have too much time to bench before end of the upcoming summer, so this will be bugging me for sure.
I was 8 seconds away from finishing the benchmark today and I think that is it from this spring :D
Have fun with your oc adventures! We will see later this year! ;)
Thanks a lot for you tips :)
when you say "VPLL stock 1,35V" you mean that you did the mod without touch the VR (50kohm set) and you have 1,35V ?
OCZ freeze (seems to be 2 versions or batches Im using the harder grey version)Quote:
Originally Posted by dpa
All have all kind of issues...
Grey screen, blue screen, stars, eg.
Running always about 130 or more...
Using Antec Formula 7
GPU voltage get down 0,05v when the bench starts (then i set correct voltage)
RAM voltage - go higger when the bench starts (1.74 to 1.94 for exemple)
I know is mod 2d to 3d cause this kind of stuff...
remount the pot 3 times and same issues..
I don t know if the card is more freeze than is necessary, buit i did put paper inside (pot - paper - p´cb)...and didn t solve the problem...
I think my card sucks :(
Use some different thermal paste. I have not tested antec formula 7, so can not say anything how that works. But what I would suggest is, that go to -50C first and set the voltages, which will be used during 3D runs. Then cool down to -100C and try 1100MHz for example. If it can run, try 1200MHz and then 1300MHz etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by rbuass
If you go directly to -130C and then start benchmark + set voltages, your thremal paste have propably lost contact and you will get lock up or black screen.
Grey screen is usually too hot gpu for the voltage +MHz combination. Blue screen is something weird and I have never seen it with these GPU's.
So try again with easier style first.
My rought approach have been giving a lot of issues since GTX 480 Lightning. I saw these issues first time back then and finally I have learned from my mistakes. Well, almost :D
Guys, where do you get the OCZ Freeze? It's EOL and I can't find it anymore :(
call ocz, they had a warehouse full :) my team did a group buy a while ago
Black screen reset over 1.44v in Vantage GT2. Vid and/or smartdoctor
1300 mhz does fine at 1.4v. Same issue at -70 to -130.
HCP 1200
OCP mods (overall and phase)
PLL 1.32
Only have a tpq 1200 OC to try, so can't evaluate single rail.
Change your PSU to Antec HCP or Corsair AX1200. Those solved my similar issues. I have been using Thermaltake TP 1200W PSU's few years and this was first monster which triggered the OCP in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch
Your card seems to be good, so fix that and you will see a lot better results.
I think my problem may be with thermal paste, not so good contact, and getting the pot too cold before the card warms up and losing my contact with pot and gpu core.
Did you just finger tight the thumbscrews on the pot?
May I add something here which I believe NONE of you have ever thought about?....... ;) :)
You ALL say nowadays that you use other thermal paste than Arctic Ceramic and you're right.....
You ALL say that after some time you can't bench at the frequencies you did when start puring LN2 in pot of the card.....
You ALL say that at VERY LOW temps you hear a "crack noise" and the card can't bench any more at the frequencies it did.......
You ALL put OCZ freeze thermal paste or any other kind to keep the temps as low as possible on the core.
Well..........HAVE ANY of you though IF the thermal paste that it's BETWEEN the core and the heatspreader CAN HANDLE the VERY LOW temps?....
I believe NOT..... ;)
START from IN THERE then, and AFTERWARDS apply whatever thermal paste you wish...... ;)
My suggestion is: REMOVE THE HEATSPREADER...... ;) :D
.
Mine was very dificult to remove.
I just tryed to remove GTX 580 headspreader it can t get out.Any idea to remove?
need to heat it up.... put a pot on it and heat it up like 60 +.. remove and it should be alot easier to remove.. sometimes fall off...
Reference cards would just fall off most of the time..
Like steponz said....You NEED to heat it to remove it..... ;)
Take a look how "poor" this heatspreader attached the core....NOT even the half of it.... :(
http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...U_HT_off_1.jpg
http://www.hipro-tech.com/images/hip...U_HT_off_2.jpg
I jusr tryed about 100 degrees (GTX 580 reference)...and here is impossible...
Will try with Direct CU2
hahahaha
Really on a reference?? you can take pliers after heating it to pop it off.. you just have to be very careful not to pull the chip off the board.
My 480 lightning's spreader just decided to come off with the pot without me doing anything...:S
Try with a turbo torch to heat the heatspreader AROUND the core (NOT in the middle - to it's edges - ) and lift it up with a razor or something with CARE.... :)
hipro do you recommend leaving it ihs less or just changing the ihs TIM :) thanks
I just popped the IHS on my 580 with pliers.. just have to do it gently.. after heating up...
They do fall off quite a bit....
Taking off the IHS seems to be the best.. your taking off the middle layer....
Thanks a lot for all you guys...
First thing i will try when coming home you remove this ¨%$#
I remember i heat a lot heatspreader from my reference GTX 580 bit it didn t fall ...then i gave up afraid to kill my only card...lol
Now will try like you told...heat in the edge and put a hot pot about 5 minutes...then pull of gently (lol)..
Best regards for all
You could remove it OR if you could find some Artctic Aloumina (not with epoxy - the OLD one - ) you could put AROUND the core a lot of it to cool down the core's PCB traces that carries all this current..... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Splave
Now your talkin :D
Nothing new on removing the HS on these GPU's : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99VMW6Zfz1Q
Of course it did not help anything with refernce design, cause pcb could not deliver enough amps.
I did not gain anything without HS on DC II really, but when the HS was removed and OCZ freeze was applied to core / hs / pot combination it worked pretty well.
Too bad time run out for more testing. It was looking very promising.
well I think I forgot to show until now: stummerwinter and kovsk heating up a GT during Cebit this year - looks like some kinda pretesting before testing it on the GPU :rofl:
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1729/heatinggt.jpg
Actually I had experiences some differences in the reference card..Quote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
With, the card would only do 1220's in 03, with it removed 1300....
I think every card could be different of course.. Just my experience..
Yeah..you are propably right. That was my first 580 and it was not the winner for sure :DQuote:
Originally Posted by steponz
tested my card yesterday and here are is a first result under ln2:
card: asus directcu II
pot: old otterauge pot with thin copper base
thermal compound: noctua nt-h1
shaminos f-bios
smartdoctor (posted by shamino on kpcooling-forum)
-80-90 degree celsius load
1,38 volt directly set with smartdoctor
no mods at all
1300 core in 3dmark03
cbb -60 degree celsius, cb not tested yet.
could you guys explain a little bit the mods posted by sf3d?
my first mod on the card will be cbb mod which should be self-explaining...
but how about vgpu mod which adds 0,4volts? is it necessary? how about just using smarddoctor to increase voltages? any experiences?
overall ocp- and per phase ocp mod:
when will the ocp ususally start to kick in? i seemed to have no issues till 1,38v and 1300mhz 03 stable.
what will change after the vpll mod?
thanks for your help guys :rolleyes:
With my DCU II it wasn't that hard: heat gun on GPU to about 70-80 degrees, Swiss Army knife between PCB and IHS and POP :).
Actually the TIM was applied pretty good. LN2 test tommorow so keep you posted ;)!
Everyone now popping of those IHS'es in order to find the holy grail in GPU clocks :p:
this is the 1627 03 GPU, TIM is dry and like powder :shocked: it actually flaked off in chunks lol 110c on kingpin fattie plus butter knife
hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by SF3D
Thanks SF3D,,,,you always a very friendly guy and it will helps for sure...
I hope this card no sucks and it is a good card...or will need to wait about 2 months to come another one to me...
regards