please refer to #90...Quote:
Originally Posted by colex
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please refer to #90...Quote:
Originally Posted by colex
Thanks for reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard1238
I think it's best don't make mod for the owners of this pump revision! :(
I have mine on order, but I don't know how long it takes to get to California. I'm going to install it into a DDC 3.25 pump with aftermarket XSPC top.
I took a look at the datasheets and wanted to figure out the power dissipation. Plugging in the typical for Im, Ron(H), and Ron(L) with 12v and 2.35A I get 3.3675W. According to the spec sheet a value of 39C/W is given for a 140mm x 70mm x 1.6mm 50% CU board. Since swiftech's pumps are only 60mm x 60mm and the board has a big hole in the middle, I'm just going to assume the second rating given which is 65C/W. So P = ~219C. I think I read somewhere that the base gets to about 50C and that is on the plastic. So Tj = 3.3675W x 65C/W + 50C = ~269C. Of course I'm not factoring in the heat removal by the water.
Maybe I messed up somewhere, but it doesn't look like this would work or for very long in a 3.25 since the thermal shutdown is 165C-180C. Datasheet also says to keep under 150C Tj. Didn't really think of this before ordering, though I wish the IC was mounted to the other side of the PCB. Then at least I could put a heatsink with direct contact onto the IC.
Yeah, I don't think I would consider using this board on a blue impeller motor. If you want to try it out, it should work well on bmaverick's DDC-1 pumps though. They are the original black impeller DDC-1 and DDC-1T motors.
Will it work on these PCBs? I ordered two of the ebay DDCs that use the expansion compensators but they don't seem to work. I was hoping just to through the new PCB on them.
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/4e00...da4249aa9f.jpg
That looks like a DDC3 series PCB. Does it have a blue impeller?
DDC-1 series look like this and have a black impeller:
http://martinsliquidlab.files.wordpr...pg?w=614&h=640
http://martinsliquidlab.files.wordpr...pg?w=614&h=452
Yeap
SourceQuote:
This is the rare special edition Laing DDC-3.2VC with built in liquid volume compensator. It is the much more reliable and newer BLUE rotor 18W version with the original LAING 3.3 PCB.
Yes they are blue. I think I may still try to mod them though. I'd rather not just have these two dead DDCs laying around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Shame I haven't taken any electronics after high school as this just went WAY over my head. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard1238
I tried to read over the spec sheet but it just looks like a bunch of gobbledygook to me.
How would I find out what size resistor is going to be needed between VSP and Vref in order to keep the amperage at safe levels?
Ya those are the ones I have and they don't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpuTnicK
lowfat
So basically you have bought the item that don't work? care to get your money back? oh BTW, what that fourth cable is for (the red one)?
I would suggest to use a potentiometer, connect it to those pins and turn it off, then try to start the pump and increase the resistance step-by-step.Quote:
How would I find out what size resistor is going to be needed between VSP and Vref in order to keep the amperage at safe levels?
Though even 2.35A is safe for this chip, according to this
Like SpuTnicK said you'll probably have to just connect a pot and guess. I finally received my kit and it looks like VSP is being fed from Vref to set VSP to 5v.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Vad(H)<VSP<=Vref = 100% speed
Vad(L) is 1.2v and Vad(H) is 4.1v
I'm not sure what current is flowing through it, but it looks like either 1mA or lower. We want to drop the 5v down to at least 4v. So using Vdrop / I = R
1 / .001 = 1000 ohms.
2 / .001 = 2000 ohms.
etc...
If the current was lower then it'd be a greater resistance. So make sure to start out high then reduce resistance. I'm still debating whether I want to install it on my pump or not. I was thinking you could use the motherboard to control it, but VSP requires an analog signal, so no pwm :(
There was never any mention of warranty on the eBay page and they did work for a while before dying out. The red wire is for 5V, which I am not sure why it is there but the pumps wouldn't work without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpuTnicK
EDIT: I finally got my pre soldered DIYINHK PCB. I can see the problems w/ installing it on a DDC 3.2 already. Since all the coils are soldered to the inside of the PCB instead of the outside it is a tad on the difficult side of things to remove them. Plus the coil wires are too short to reach where the need to be on the new PCB.
The 5V is probably to feed the logic of the control chip.
I got the old PCB's off my DDC3.2s. There are 6 coils w/ two wires a piece. However on the new PCB there are only 10 holes for wires to pass through AFAIK. There are two more places where I think the wires should go but no holes to push them through.
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/221b...22f392c341.jpg
The holes are in places where electric contact from one side of PCB should pass to the other side. So, i guess you should not worry about that, as it is more of PCB developer's duty. Just solder all 12 wires to those contacts and the board should work as planned.
connect like this, and be care the two ending of each coil cannot be reverse connected.
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/e7a1...c0a04e9a89.jpg
This is Certainly off topic.
but, Lowfat nice picture of that pcb.. it's so photogenic.
and I love John Criton and Mal.
that is all.
Getting close. I just hope it works afterwards. http://smiliesftw.com/x/eek5noes2.gif
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/f4cf...73303b397d.jpg
Looks good. :) Keep us posted. I'm actually waiting about 3 weeks for my circuit boards... And of course good luck!!
double check the copper wire is not touching/short circuit the PCB before connect the power. it should work immidiately:clap:
The PCB can also be place outside the pump housing, you have very long copper wire extended. The heat from the controller will never go into the water loop in this arrangement.
Cool!...
I'm really confused after looking through all of the posts... which PCB will work for the blue impeller ddc 3.1?
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0191.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...e/IMG_0190.jpg
Well I got it completed but it isn't working properly. It is trying to pump but it just spurts on and off about 2 times a second. Moving almost next to no water though.
Been a while since I posted here...
Anyways, does anyone know if this would work on the original DDC-2 with ORANGE (gasp I know right) impeller from 2007? I'm thinking about selling mine soon and given it's poor reliability track record, this mod being available might bring peace of mind to whoever may be interested in buying it. Certainly doesn't look too hard to solder the few wires on.
Thanks for trying and sharing, sounds like it's a DDC-1 only mod..Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Wait so just making sure, by DDC-1 you mean the old 10W one before they switched to 3.1 and 3.2 right? I thought the PCB for the DDC-1 (black) and DDC-2 (orange) were supposed to be very similar, so could it work on an orange impellered pump?
Yours looks similar to mine in that the coils are soldered to the inside of the pcb. Chances are you will run in to the same issues of mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r
I haven't given up yet though. I will take it apart and redo everything. Maybe I have a wire backwards or something. I'll likely just order a couple of MCP35x in case I can't get it working though.
Not sure about the DDC-2, I just heard the windings are different(longer) between the revisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r
bmaverick has new old stock DDC-1's if you want them.:up:
Have you put a resistor between VSP and Vref?
I didn't but I did try running the pump @ 5V and 7V and they didn't work either. Once I get the pumps working I will be hooking them up to a BigNG so I shouldn't have a problem keeping them below 2.5A.Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpALump
12V should work, the pump cannot start at 7V.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
try to check the coil ending is not reverse connected.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=115
If the extended coil wire is long enough, the pcb can also place outside the pump housing.
Well I removed the pcb and redid everything again. This time using longer wires and gauranteeing that I had it soldered right. I have it exactly like how the picture above. I powered it up without the casings to see what it did. The pump does not move at all. But it is doing something as you can feel it vibrate and make noise.
is it connect like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/15ad...8d62155880.jpg
the sanyo PCB is designed for the black rotor DDC. It cannot be use in the blue rotor DDC3, it will overheat and the chip will explode when connect the 12V power:shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by cka3o4nuk
how can it be done:eek: use extra resistor in series with the coil:confused:
@cka3o4nuk does it work with the sanyo pcb and the blue rotor?
That is exactly how it is connected.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard1238
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/9910...90d3a9653b.jpg
1. the yellow circle may have chance short circuit together. the painting of the metal core is not hard enough.
2. the red circle and some wire ending is long enough connect to the pcb directly, it will be more tidy.
3. the green circle look like a bad soldering join, the gold plated surface is still be seem? it's will be better to use flux
hope everyone success
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/be49...e5e04b0eff.jpg
Even after pulling the wires up and touching up the solder it doesn't work. I've been talking to someone else and he believes the stepped motors are not firing in the correct sequence. I would really like to know if anyone else has tried to install this PCB on a DDC3.1/3.2 to see if they had similar issues.
When I get home on monday I'll see if I can get it working. Though I've never done drag soldering before, so hopefully I don't screw up.
Lowfat you should tin your wires (if you did, then twist them before you tin) and use a little flux before soldering. It'll help the solder flow a little better so you have better joints. Also clean and tin your soldering iron here n there. If you take a look at cka3o4nuk's soldering job, you can see how the solder joints are nice and shiny, as dull usually means a dry or cold joint. Looks like you're trying to heatsoak to get that solder to stick and a tiny bit of flux will help with that.
Have you checked all your connections with a multimeter? When testing it are you running it at 12v with water in the tubing? Since I think water is supposed to lube up the impeller. Do you have an aftermarket top? Just trying to figure out if the issue is the TB6588 is going into protection mode where it resets over and over or if its some other cause.
Hello,
I've upped some pics of my two pumps I had apart.
The blue impeller one is considered as working, the red impeller is surely dead (the impeller doens't spin, I can hear a click but I didn't measure if it's powered).
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...011047_mod.jpg
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...011048_mod.jpg http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...011049_mod.jpg
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...011050_mod.jpg http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...011053_mod.jpg
Hope this help identifying your pump revisions.
BTW, can anyone confirm the DYINHK kit is good for my red impeller Laing?
This kit looks like an upgrade to the original, hope there'll be soon some for the blue ones, since I have two of them... :D
Hmm... I may have to order one of these and try it on a DDC-1 pump. It just looks like too much fun to resist..:D
ordered the sanyo kit for a 10w laing aswell as an 18w version for a burnt blue impeller pump. Will report back if i get this to work, quite excited to recieve these. The only problem i see is the length of the wire, might have to extend it so that it can be soldered to the traces on the outer side of the pcb.
I almost want to order one as well to see if it is user error that is causing me not to get this DDC3.1 to work. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Martin, I have a package of two DDC-1 pumps that have only dead PCB, the coil is fully intact and I've included all the other hardware and more. It should be mailed out this week for you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
I have dozens of surplus "new" DDC-1 pumps. Very few are non-functional to mod with this PCB upgrade. To bad I'm not the worlds best solder master, else I would convert a fleet of DDC-1 pumps. :P
Awesome, thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaverick
I will report back how the modification goes and put together a little blog of the process.:up:
...need a hand? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bmaverick
Well, a dead DDC-1 + PCB mod + DYI could be cheaper than buying a new one, and performing better.
mmmm.... i want 2 to play with.. :P
But i think i only have 1 DDC-1. And im very bad with soldering.. lol...
I threw out all the ones that died out thinking repair was almost impossible.
does not support mcp350 pumps with the coil wires on the inside of the pcb. (blue rotor)
The issue you are having with the pump rotor not moving or vibrating, is caused by the coils "firing" incorrectly. Not the soldering. (btw: i have also tried switching the wire pairs around)
Ill post more info later.
That is what I've been told as well. I was hoping someone else had tried it on a DDC3.1 so I know it wasn't a mistake of mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by xcooling
ive tried it 2x, so its not ur soldering. (btw: all my joins are insulated and tested)
Right now im testing a totally different way of wiring the coils, way more complex, but im sure ill get it working.
Well if you do definitely post your findings. I'd love to be able to get these pumps working again.
only on 5vQuote:
@cka3o4nuk does it work with the sanyo pcb and the blue rotor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcooling
xcooling - Would appreciate some more info on this. I have an 18w pcb coming which i will try to repair a blue impeller pump with.
So your saying that this diagram posted by wizard1238 will not work? this is how i would have wired it. http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/15ad...8d62155880.jpg
Tested and NOT working:
wiring the coils as the diagram indicates
reversing the wires of individual coils.
wiring the coils in pairs as they are stock.
wiring opposite coils with each other
wiring every 2nd coils
wiring 2 coils together
I have also tested inverting the board
You will need to add a resistor (50K) or a 100K pot and cut the bridge on the pcb between VSP and Vref (otherwise u will melt the ic)
Hats off to you xcooling, sounds like you tried damn near every combination possible. Really sounds like it isn't possible with this PCB.
Original Install on a DDC3.1 / MCP350
I inverted the pcb to expose the IC, so that i can stick a heatsink on it. coil wire pairs were swapped around due to the board being inverted.
this should of worked, as it follows the guide 100%.
All the joins were tested and cleaned with acetone after soldering to prevent any shorts.
does NOT work, (i later tested it without inverting the board and swaping the coil wires, does NOT work either)
These are pics of trying to find a possible solution..
Every combination i tried.. did NOT work.Quote:
Originally Posted by xcooling
conclusion.. does NOT work
I bought the pre-soldered board from him.
Ive attached pics of the board and pump i used.
Perhaps there are different DDC3.2s?
I've got one of each of the DIY pcbs as well as one of each pump already modded.
Here is the blue impeller version and it seems to work fine. Starts around 6V and works clear up to and beyond12V. Planning to do some testing and also installing of the PCB myself.
Not sure this helps any, but this is how the working DDC3.2 flavor looks with the mod installed.
There is no sticker on the pump, but it does have a blue impeller and it was one of the volume compensator types that was removed (that's what the oring is for, seals against a block off plate).
I did a quick test and it does seem to operate fine, so I'm going to add an RPM wire and do some tests..:up:
To the best of my knowledge the volume compensator types are from a MAC G5's.
orientation of the pcb doesnt matter if the coil wires are swiched around. I also tested it the right way.
On a mcp355, the ic will overheat if you do not use a resistor. (in 15seconds it will read 85degC+)
Did you add a resistor to Vref or anything? That does look how I had mine soldered, but all it would do is misfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
If you were able to get it to work properly I will definitely be looking forward to your results.
The 18W board from diyinhk works fine with ma blue rotor Laing. No idea what you are doing wrong. It must be a fault at soldering the chip. I tested 5 pumps and all work great. :) I will make a video tomorrow. The noise without a resistor between VSP und Vref is enormous. You have to break the connection between the two contacts and put a 33K resistor between it than it would slow the pump down.
Well that is definitely some good news to know that it works properly on the blue rotor DDC's. I guess I'll just buy another couple PCB's and give it a try.
Buy a presoldered PCB. They are tested and should work with your pump. :) I will also test the green PCBs tomorrow. I will put a 0,1 Ohm resistor to each coil. Then they should have the same resistance as the black rotors coils and the pcb might not explode. I keep you posted.
Edit: Just saw the presoldered 18W pcbs are sold out :(
Edit 2: I can solder you one if you want. Shipping to USA is only 5$
Edit 3: Also to Canada ;)
Edit 4: Also tetesd it a night on 12V without a resistor between VSP and Vref and it did not overheat. Performance was amazing!! 200l/h with one modded pump in my system. Before I had around 190l/h with 2 MCP355.
I didn't do anything, that was one of his pre-modded pumps, but it doesn't appear to have any resistor in place.:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Oh...my.......oh my...I see a lot of PSI...:D
I'm guessing guy that thought out this PCB just didn't went for artificially limiting rpm-s like Laing did.
Kind of like Laing DDC, not D5, Strong :)
I wonder how are things noise-wise with higher rpm-s though.
One of the PCB's I purchased was pre soldered. And it is the one I am having issues with. Ive redone my soldering three times and nothing worked. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by mochti01
Can't wait for results. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
These DDCs I can't seem to quite keep straight. I thought the 3.1 was the same as the 3.2, only difference being the jumper wire in place or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danfoss
This is what I have so far...not quite done with this or the Sanyo/DDC1 flavor yet.
http://martinsliquidlab.files.wordpr...ng?w=558&h=656
12V detail:
http://martinsliquidlab.files.wordpr...a12v-xspc1.png
9V is about the same as a DDC3.25.
To be continued...
Not quite sure what to make of the RPM frequency...my best guess is RPM = Hz x 10, but that's just a guess trying to match up similar pressures. The normal Hzx30 gives you huge numbers which don't make sense.
Cheers!
Martin
FYI, also found this:
http://www.toshiba-components.com/mo...20_080424_.pdf
62% over 3.25?! That's way more then D5 Strong or DDC2, isn't it? Huh, you got mini iwaki on hands :D
I'd also like to better understand the variable resistor deal between VSP and Vref. What sort of variable resistor should go between these?
And it'll do more than 12V if you give it to her..lol:DQuote:
Originally Posted by churchy
It is pushing upwards of 2.5 amps with just 12V though and I am a bit paranoid about heat. Supposedly the Toshiba manual says Tjmax is 150C...so maybe I worry too much?
Martinm210: and how noise subjectively seems with that high rpms relative to common DDCs/D5s?
As for heat, imho no need for much worries. Weren't fets that overheated most on stock DDC PCB?
You have to cut the connection between VSP and Vref. Than you can put a resistor between it. Or you use a 47K poti to regulate the little monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Those numbers are insane! I most definitely will be trying to fix these two extra DDC's once those pre-soldered PCB's come back in stock. As for going above 12V, I do believe the TB6588FG lists a max of 2.5A. Although if you feel like being the Guinea pig to see if they'll last above that much juice and by how long, feel free. :D
i bet every is paranoid about the noise level at that performance, not to mention the consumption rate - almost 30W - hello Lamprtron FC5V2 :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Heat wise, try attaching a temp sensor to IC case.
Can you make a video of the pump running at 2.5A?
use a 100Kohm variable resistor.. it allows u to control the speed of the pump.
On the mcp355, the controller will overheat if u don't do this.
It will not overheat... I left it 24h to run on 100% in my system and nothing happend. With 50Kohm the pump will not start. 47Kohm varibale resistor is perfect.
50V would be impossible because the maximum current is 2.5A and on 12V it takes 2.1A. So you can imagine whats gonna happening on 50V or? ;)
I had two of them with a watercool duallaing top. Two MCP355 made 190l/h in my very restrictive system and two diyinhk 3.2 on 100% with 12V made 300l/h.
Success!!!
Here are the 2 pumps i'm working with:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_5274.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_5277.jpg
used the pre soldered 18w pcb for this and followed this diagram - http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/15ad...8d62155880.jpg
pump works fine and seems to move a lot more water than a stock MCP355. only problem is that the case gets a little hot to the touch after a few minutes. i doubt it can stand sustained use like this. Will look into the vref, VSP mod to slow motor a bit or maybe a pot - just want to make sure what values to use.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_5275.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_5276.jpg
used the 10w pcb for this. no problems except that the pump pulsates after about 10sec. then eventually stops. if i restrict the outlet side with my finger (simulating cpu block, rad restriction hahaha) then it is ok and runs very smooth and quiet. flow is also better than stock ( as far as i remember). i think once this is in an actual working loop, it will do ok.
These were all very quick, non scientific tests obviously. i just wanted to see if i could get the pumps working.
Big thanks to all who have contributed to this thread, much appreciated.
Tried once more to get my blue prop DDC to work. My solder joints are considerably better and I heat shrink all of the extensions. Still unable to get it to work though, it doesn't vibrate as before though. I can hear a clicking sound coming from it, but that is it.
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/8494...4d7419740f.jpg
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/d875...78254dd4f3.jpg
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/e059...5812bf2ed8.jpg
Subjectively I think the Toshiba controller is a bit more buzzy than the DDC3 motor controller, but better than the DDC1 motor controller. Hard to tell though with the different RPM values.Quote:
Originally Posted by churchy
Thanks! I'll see if I can round one of those up at radio shack. I have some larger ones, but I'd like to have a nice small one I can mount to the pump case.Quote:
Originally Posted by mochti01
Yeah, I'll work on a video comparison as part of my blog, but I'll wait until I test the Sanyo flavor as well so I can get both done in the same noise test session. It might not be until next weekend though...it's about the only time I can do good noise testing in the wee hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpuTnicK
My motor has a metal plate on the bottom and I measured roughly 53C max on the metal plate. If TJmax is 150C, it's probably still within operating range.Quote:
Originally Posted by mochti01
The Toshiba controller spec manual says it also has thermal protection. At 165C it'll shut down and turn back on at 150C.
Supposedly the plastic can melt at 170C, so this thing would have to get pretty darn toasty to destruct. It would be nice if you could invert the PCB and put a large heatsink on it though.
The Sanyo version does have the IC on the bottom, and that's what the heatsink PCB attaches to. You could also install just about any large heatsink on that model.
I'll be working on this off and on over the next week or so and hope to have all the testing and blog published by the end of the next weekend.:up:
@Martinm210 How do you pick out the tacho signal? My pumps show a signal, but is a bit weird. More voltage -> lower rpm, lower voltage -> higher rpm... Strange, but the pumps work.
@Martinm210 any chance you can overvolt it to 13v on with the Koolance CTR-SPD10 Pump Speed Controller.
@lowfat its either bad quality control because neither of us can get our pumps to work, or it does not support them.
Ive ordered a DDC1 which i will be trying the mod on... grr will be a few weeks until it arrives.
He is using his multimeter set to frequency (pulse) measurement. Comparing this data with the one from original DDC3.2, he gets a rough multiplier that he uses to calculate the RPM from modded pump.Quote:
Originally Posted by mochti01
Pretty soon we're going to be getting waterblocks for pumps!Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Waterlogged is one step ahead:DQuote:
Originally Posted by RacingTurtle
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...4&postcount=31
Here is a little comparison video of a diyinhk 18w ddc 2 and a diyinhk 18w ddc 3.2. Just to check the level of noise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OZUg-hETyA
So originally I was going to install this mod, but then xcooling said it doesn't work after lowfat couldn't get it to work. Since I have a working MCP355 I figured I'd skip it. Now with this info :eek: I think I'm going to have to install it.
@ DumpALump Please try the mod on your mcp355...
pretty easy to revert it, if it doesn't work.