2 x GF110 makes no economic sense if 2 x GF114 can get close to the same performance in the same power envelope
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2 x GF110 makes no economic sense if 2 x GF114 can get close to the same performance in the same power envelope
never mind the poor photochop job..Quote:
Originally Posted by 570091D
I would imagine the card would be priced around $699+ if you use dual 570's as a reference so margins should be acceptable. This is about what the 5970's where selling back in the day so the market is there even if it is small.Quote:
Originally Posted by zerazax
I think a dual gf114 makes more sense when you look at overall efficiency as far as production costs, selling price & overall performance potential but AMD had the same choice with their dual gpu card considering they could have done well with a dual 6870.
If this comes to market as a dual full gf110 then its main purpose is to reclaim the heavy weight title belt, Nvidia's yamato.
A lot><
Would be funny if they beat 6990 to the release date...
Glad they kept 3GB of VRAM on board this time (so 580 cores, then ;)), unlike for GTX295.
Well, it's the same chip, really, so they can either disable some parts, or downclock and undervolt it, either is an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by 570091D
Would be great to see the fight with 6990 but i bet 590 won....
Can't wait to see how this pans out. If they do somehow manage to impress then it look slike my 295's will be surplus to requirements if and when they come out.
So is this the same as the EVGA GTX590 that was shown off at CES? Thought EVGA was going to have a unique product and be priced under $500?
single 580 cost $500, if this new card is even 1 fps faster, Nv will make you $$$ for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
those specs might be true with a 100mhz clock speed... i will believe a dual 580 when I see it
LOL, yeah I wouldn't dare to hope for such a monster either.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
Probably it's just some fake rumor to disparage AMD from releasing the 6990.
Some good old AMD-fans have been raising question about the necessity of 6990, and that suggest AMD may be thinking about dropping it. With that in mind, such a beast on the block, may convince AMD to drop 6990. All this is speculations tho, we have to wait and see if they can scare AMD.
I have got the same reaction, but i was mostly think to 300mhz ( 2d movies clocks ? ) Na seriously is not the average TDP, but mostly the "real TDP".... I don't see how they will fit it without a lot of protection against temps and watts reach. You can retain the power for Furmark, but if you need do it for ALL games and appliccations, this is another problem... how maintain throttling? fluctuation ? Then the new Nvidia vapor chamber cooling block are good, but is it enough for 2 580 ? without even speaking about overclocking limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
Look like a nice rumors ramping after AMD's showing the 6990...
2 x 580 sounds insane BUT nvidia have been pulling off plenty of surprises. In fact how many thought that a 512 cuda version would run cooler than the 480? So i guess i'm cautiously optimistic.
The first Fermi was bugged, completely bugged, there's not only one reason to cut 32 shaders on high end cards... Nvidia have got then 6 months for fix the GF100... ofc it's better and run cooler, they have do what they should have done on first GF100... not less, not much.
But i agree with you, Nividia have been full of surpise in 2010, good and bad surprise.. who know. But let's not forget, they can't tap out a new cores, so a dual gpu's will be to be made with what they have actually. and this is not like fix the GF100. By changing the transistor size placement for decrease power.
Yep, the Nvidia beast will convince AMD to drop the HD 6990. The monster might even scare them so much that they will go out of business all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Probably this HD 6990 is full of wood screws, but I'm not sure about it, until Charlie reports.
"AMD's Matt Skynner, Corporate VP and General Manager of its GPU division, instantly got the attention of all the media when he teased us with AMD's upcoming monster GPU, the dual GPU Radeon HD 6990."
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4959/69901.jpg
Source
Lol seriously, you think AMD will drop the 6990 cause they fear a rumor a dual gf 110 ? lol ... naa seriously you say that after AMD have start to tease peoples by showing it ? "" ok guys let's put 5millions of dollars in the trash, Nvidia scare us"" ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
You think they will go out of business buy just hearing rumors? I don't think so, it should take a bit more than that, but rumors about a scary monster that could kill 6990 before release could probably make them think twice about releasing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68
I don't think that's entirely wood screws either, they had good time to replace some of wood screws after last years nasty delay.
is it just me or is that card bigger then the 5970 (if thats even possible)Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68
I have used 5970's and they are massive.... but that thing is..... has to be bigger it's crazy. A real GPU needs a real case I guess:D
back on topic here. Nvidia are surely planning something and they have been full of surprises, but not matter how green a persons glasses may be they can't expect a full 2x580 part. 2x 570 with 384bit buses.... MAYBE
I have a pair of 570's sitting in the machine next to me and I can tell you they throw heat like no ones business, but on the other hand I have a pair of unlocked 6950's on the other side and they throw just as much heat if not more then the 570's so if AMD can do it Nvidia should be able to as well...
I think that poster you quoted was sarcastic. 6990 not only exists but it actually has two 1536 SP GPUs on the same board. I can bet its power draw will be lower than any monster dual GPU based on Fermi NV has in store. Just imagine power draw of dual 580 Fermi card,you'd need 1KW power supply... :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
if its a reference design, just going by the power vrm its probably dual 580s, reference GTX 570 has 4 phase VRm for core and 2 phase for mem, this one has a lot more per core.
So lets see if there anything behind your elaborate claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
AMD had a chance to make a good break with 6900 last year, but they lost the opportunity after that nasty delay. Now nVidia has several options to counter AMD's wild card.
I personally think 2x560 would be enough to beat/match 6990, because we already know 560 beats 6950. In worst case (if 6990 turns out to be better), they can trough 2x570 on it too. Now these rumors are saying they can trough 2x580 in it, too. I personally don't think they would need 2x580 to beat 6990, and I don't think that's a viable or realistic option.
I think that nasty delay has actually killed AMD's wild-card, because they can't take the upper hand now.
Now, tell me, what do you think AMD has to offer to get a upper hand now?
Anyone who called that card a GTX 590 didn't know what they were talking about. The card used 2x GTX 460.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
Theyre not going to show off a card like that and not release it. And the whole going out of business was sarcasm because your idea of them not releasing this thing out of fear is no different. They dont need to take the crown to turn a profit off this thing. All they need is price to performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Not even 560? They're pretty late with that one...Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
You are mistaking, totally. The high-end is all about the performance-crown. Price to performance applies to mainstream, and 560 has already secured this segment for nVidia.Quote:
Originally Posted by \/icious
If AMD can't take the performance-crown against 2x560 or 2x570, (or 2x580 according to this unbelievable rumors) then they better don't resale the 6990. Because #2 doesn't count and doesn't sell in high-end.
Based on this logic, I personally think this 2x580 is probably just some fake rumors to scare and discourage AMD from releasing the 6990.
Except you forget one important thing : AMD has the single card performance crown with 5970. It's faster than 580 GTX. It's NVidia that's playing catchup ever since Evergreen launched.
Are you for real? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Have you seen the 25x16 test results? Yes, that's the kind of resolution you'd expect a double card to be run on.
at best they are equal. if you unlock and max out both chips, both clock speeds, you have 1000mhz 560 versus 6970, and the 6970 wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
That's why I think those dual GPU cards are mostly for window dressing. Two identical high-end cards always work better. Less hitching and better overall performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
i think your missing the fact that the 5970 sold like hot cakes and the 580 is selling fast as well. If they dont go over 700 bucks it can easily steal market away from the 580 and anyone looking to sli lower end NV cards. Your also forget how well the 6900 series is scaling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Off course I was just kidding about the going out of business and wood screws, because some of your post are putting it nicely more suitable for some comedy club forum than XtremeSystems News Forums. So my reply was in the same fashion and sarcastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
I mean how difficult it's to Google HD 6900? Instead of speculating.
Strange that even when I posted in me reply AMD's Matt Skynner, Corporate VP and General Manager showing the card with the news story link included, you keep repeating the same baloney speculation that AMD is going to be scared to release the card. Yes as I said before they are going to be so much scared that they will go out of business completely and that makes about the same sense.
There was no nasty delay or wood screws, unless Charlie confirms it. :)
The HD 6970 & 6950 was delayed for about 3 weeks. If you call it nasty than what would you call the GTX 380 delay?
It took over one year when it finally arrived as GTX 580 without the wood screws. :) But let me say it is an awesome card so maybe it was worth to wait for it.
The HD 6990 release was officialy changed by AMD from December last year to Q1 2011. The reason is very simple, the card is going to use bin chip same as the HD 5970 is using bined chip (by the way still the fastes card on the market). So there is not need for AMD to rush out the HD 6990. :)
It takes some time to built up some inventory with such chips. The HD 5970 was sold out on the first day when released.
I placed the order when the card was first listed but it was too late, was placed on waiting list and had to wait 3 weeks before I got the card. The shortage also created price gouging. The MSRP was $599 but the selling price was about $700.
Hope this time the same wont repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
are you for real???
wow ....
so you think that a company that had good success in the last couples of years with their current strategy could fear a product that isnt meant to produce more then 100k for that product alone ....
the real cash is in the oem deals and the cheap 50$ gpu range .... not anywhere else .. if amd fears something is the lack of contracts ... and the lack of those product being sold ... not the higher range of products ....
those high end parts exist only because they cater to a special clientele ... just like maybachs ... they dont want to sell 10 000 per year or whatever .. they just need 1000 at best ... and since maybach is owned by mercedes .. they have lower tiered options .. like the small B class .. or the C class and different varients of each class of cars ... so really its the same .. different products for different clientele ...
now how would a rolls royce scare maybach??? if in the end mercedes makes more money overall .. or gets more proffit for their investment ... you have to look at it this way ... their goal is to invest as less as possible while getting more proffit .. and i think amd knows a thing or two .. just like nvidia .. even if we disagree on some of their tactics .. the end result speak for themselves
Yeah, I can only imagine how much these will cost... I think even $600-630 may be optimistic :(.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinStrap
This thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...highlight=evga
I don't really care if it's two GTX460's or GTX560's. If you can do Nvidia surround off of one card and it's under $500 then it's a win for me. Two GTX460's in SLI do quite well in Nvidia surround according to Hardocp testing over the last 6 months. This is where I think AMD has the upper hand, you can run Eyefinity off of one card and I wish Nvidia would do the same.
Lol, Some peoples are really unreal, out of buisness, you know AMD is 1st in marketshare in front of Nvidia ( if we exclude Intel IGP ofc ) since more of 3 years consecutive (if not more ), why will you they go out of buisness ? AMD have sell 35M of DX11 GPU's last years, when Nvidia is far really far of it ( 500'000 on July 2010 , they are maybe now at 3-4millions)
I'm pretty sure the person who said this was only kidding. It's not like it is going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanek
look like 580 SLi ?
First of all, don't repeat my lines with changing the meaning of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68
Are you saying it was a good move to delay the 6990? Got'a be a limit for what you can accept and defend, even as a hard core AMM fan.
I'm afraid the reason wasn't so simple as you are trying to explain. I said "AMD has chickened out" already last year when they announced that nasty delay. They had to go back to drowning board and make a "new" redesigned/re-freshed (or whatever you want to call it).
Now the big question is: can 6990 (which got redesigned/re-freshed before GTX560) still be competitive against nVidia's next double-GPU? I don't think so, because nVidia has several option to match/beat at right at the day of release.
That nasty delay has actually killed AMD's wild card, it can't do anything good any longer. You may mean otherwise, but the future comes fast enough.
man if you worked for AMD you would be Nvidia's MVP for sure. 1st since when was it a shocker for something to be delayed. Happens all the time. Also if it only got pushed back a couple of months how is that enough time for a complete rehaul and distribution?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Putting stample on me doesn't prove your ppints. I was hoping you could use constrictive arguments for your claims. Did you run out of arguments?Quote:
Originally Posted by \/icious
I don't know what they did in that time, I think they went back to drawing board trying to beat 2X5xx. It doesn't matter what they did, but they have wasted valuable time. Back then they had a chance to take the performance-crown. I don't think they can do the same today.
This "new" 6990 seams to be a repatriation of the last "mistake". Last time they they tried to beat 480, and they did a good job too, but they got a big surprised by 580. This time they are facing 2x560 or 2x570 (or 2x580 according to this unbelievable rumors ), do you think they have a chance to #1? I personally think 2x560 would beat/match it, but nvidia has other options too. that nasty delay cost AMD alot.
It WILL BE NEW not "new" because they didnt make such card before,its not a rehash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
What was the last mistake ? or did ypu put it in commas because there wasnt any mistake ? :confused:
Last time they didnt try to beat a 480. becuase when 5970 launched, 480 wasnt there for 6 months.They beat themselves.
580 Was a suprise ,but not like it was unexpected that after a while nvidia will be able to deliver non-broken product.
2x560 wont beat it, because it doesnt beat 2x6950.
2x570 can match it but both companies are restrained by the 300W power limit,so it boils down to who has better performance per watt.
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon...s/perfwatt.gif
Seems like AMD has upper hand in this regard.
Of course nVidia can decide to go over the limit, but neither manufacturer has made reference design yet of this kind.
And before you say that 2x580 "will beat it for sure" ,remember that the same power constraint applies.
And as to the delay cost, for now, nothing, competition hasnt produced a two chip card either.And at this segment sales are relatively low.
No ,its not gonna bankrupt them.
GF104 and GF114 are pin for pin compatible. The only real difference in terms of overall design considerations between the two is that the GF114 needs improved thermal and PWM designs.Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
What you dont seem to understand is that the real crown goes to the one who hold more of the market. Sure the top performer would cast more shine on their products but in the end they want want more people buying their cards. If they worked off of your logic they would not have release the 6900 series. They hardly stand to profit off the 6900 series with its current pricing and why do you think it is they are selling them anyways? They arnt going to just bow out if their card doesnt smoke NV's and let them have the market if they can help it not to mention throwing away million/s in R&D. They will put the card out and price it according to sales and competition. Your agruement would fair a lot better if you gqve examples of this happening in the past especially considering how AMD has already shown this thing offQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
According to this performance index, Nvidia needs to use above GTX 570 performance to "beat" a CF 6970, but here both cards use about the same power ( ~220W ), so it will be fun to se what comes out of all this :)
http://www.sweclockers.com/recension...ti/15#pagehead
If it will be downclocked 580 SLI, it would be great card.
looks like a photoshop to me... the packaging is way too close to the mounting holes of the pcb, and attempting to hide this by using a bad quality low res picture is pretty obvious...
there are pics of the actual card floating on the web already, its dual 460/560
dual 580 is not going to happen from nvidia
dual 570 is possible i guess, but look at perf/w and cost/perf for 560 vs 570 and youll see that dual 570 doesnt make sense
dual 560 is enough to rival the 6990 and is doable with a simple pcb, realistic TDP and consumption and realistic price as well
think about it, your nvidia, you managed to get a much better perf per watt chip out that is cheaper to make as well, are you going to use this for a dual gpu card which is limited by 1. heat and 2. cost, or do you use a chip thats running so hot it needed an expensive special new heatsink for its single gpu cards to cool them well enough without making them noisy, and costs more than an entire laptop or average pc...
+1 :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristers Bensin
And I add this:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...ating_mit_aaaf
My best speculation is:
HD6990 - 2x1536 - 800Mhz - vgpu 1.00-1.05V - 2x2Gb @1350 - TDP 299W
GTX595 - 2x512 - 700Mhz - vgpu 0.95-1V - 2x1.5Gb @1000 - TDP 299W
And looking at performance above, GTX595 can win at 1920x1080 but at 2560x1600 or triple monitor, HD6990 will go up, imho.
If GTX595 its "only" 2xGf114 (800-850Mhz - 2x2Gb @1000), HD6990 will kill it easy at any resolutions.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...560-ti-sli/23/
I agree, it likely will be fight 580 SLI vs. 6970 CF (both downclocked). In this case i think 580 SLI wins easy. Need to looks at temps/noise level....Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh
There are two battles. One is fastest single GPU, one is fastest single card. It would be foolish to dismiss one over the other. When was the last time ATI/AMD had the fastest single GPU? Maybe X1950XTX? Even then though, it was by no means a landslide victory.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
PCB looks like the one Galaxy used in their dual GF100 prototype.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Last Meal
I've noticed SKYMTL has started posting. If I know my xtremesystems, then he knows something we all don't ;-)
Nope, that was the 5870 with RV870. And it was significantly faster than GTX285.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElSel10
Yea, it was Waaaaaay waaaay in the past.Like 8 months ago.When dinosaurs roam the earth ;-)
last mistake ?? you mean the 5970? the car which was unrivaled up until recently, end even now holds the crown as the fastest in some games..... hummm go on:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
I was clear what mistake i was talking about. They underestimated the flexibility of Fermi-architecture and got surprised by 580. You got it?Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
I bet they are going to repeat the same mistake again. This time they are going to get a new surprise, by a new and more efficient GF114, on top of nVidia's "old" options.
Hmmm i know when it comes to taking performance crown the price don't matter... but the fact is, 6990 has high probability of beating GTX 590 in price, being able to deliver very high performance.
I have a GTX 295 ... my plan is to get the "logical" replacement, or by other words, the GTX 590 ... but... i really don't know if i will do it ... because or Nvidia takes a rabbit of the hat or this will have a humongous price tag on hit ... :x
GTX 295 was basically a mix between the GTX 260 and 280 ... lower clocks of the 260 with all the shaders from the 280 ( if my memory isn't tricking me ) ... so i guess this will be something that will happen with the 590 ... downgraded 580's in terms of clocks...
But, as i say, or they have an amazing price tag, or people will look at 6990 too ... because, in this moment, even enthusiasts look at price tags :)
Lets see... what i think is that these big boys are a great investment for people that don't have the possibility or don't like swapping GPU's frequently ... :)
Another thing... my i7 is a massive power heaters... overclocked, it can produce amazing TDP's ... ( on the negative side ) ... So, having 2 power heaters in the system will be... well ... very demanding for the water cooling system i have :P I will make all the math with those variables... because... let's not forget that 28nm are due to the end of the year. 590's will be in a weird position ... delayed launch due to 6990 not being on the market ... but we know that 28nm chips will be 4-5x more efficient ...
So buying a 700+ Euros ( maybe 800 USD ) board that will be a "hot spot" in your system when talking about heat points ... and in the last quarter new chips will be presented... meh ...
I'm not talking much about the 6990 because, i really think this board will beat the 590 in the price tag... maybe it will end up in the GTX580 price rage... just by making some math with 6970's vs 580's CF/SLI prices...
Both will be extremely hot ( not not sexy... ehehe) ... have huge TDP's ... and well ... in the end, people that buy these cards have multiple monitors and my guess is that 6990 will be better there.
590 will be pure raw power in the 1920x1200 resolution and 2560 resolution ... but ... depends on the clocks ... i mean ... to keep it under a "acceptable" TDP they will have to cut the clocks a lot! :P
Remember this from GURU3D?
Quote:
When we compare to GeForce GTX 280 in SLI we again can do nothing else but notice that the overall GTX 295 performance is really close to a 280 SLI setup... for less money.
Quote:
What do you get for 499 USD? Well, a product that offers extreme performance. No matter what type of game you throw at it, you flick on the highest image quality settings and go into the highest resolutions. The GTX 295 will get the job done.
and for the GTX 280
Quote:
Pricing then; we just have to take into account that the GeForce GTX 280 will be introduced at launch with a price of no less than an astounding 649 USD, that's roughly 500-549 EUR here in Europe. And that's a stack load of money for sure which obviously I don't like as much as you do, either. The GeForce GTX 260 (which we hope to review soon) will be launched at a far more interesting 399,- USD retail price.
So lets wait and see :)
Well whatever happens, if this card turns out to be real. And I surely hope it is. The next couple of months should make things quite interesting.
surprised? fermi perform well that's for sure, the only two cards from the fermi architecture that sold like hotcakes were the GTX460, and now GTX560... I would not call the rest of fermi an awesome buy unless you breathe eat and :banana::banana::banana::banana: EVGA & Nvidia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
2x 6950 cost less than gtx 580... and outperform it, why? fermi is too expensive to produce, I would not call that "AMD's mistake" both their architectures are geared differently.
Kuro, and why are you comparing 2 GPU's vs 1 GPU ?
It's not only about money you know ... for that you can get 2 GTX 560 and they will outperform the 580 too ...
:P
But i must say, price wise, 6990 will be better... this is what i think ... i hope i'm wrong :P
2x 6950 are not cheaper than a gtx 580...Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroikenshi
Not down here either. They are about $200 NZ more for the 6950's.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
here in Aus I bought 2 x sapphire for $640, hwich is less than a GTX 580 down here.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
you cannot compare 2 gpu's vs one, I suppose deep inside I also concur with that statement, after all I was the proud owner of a highly OCed 5970.
humm, until we know exactly which GF chip will be in the Flagship GTX I am afraid we wont be able to compare to ANtilles
True true! Now if only this mystery were solved in time for my evga stepup... I can dream!Quote:
Originally Posted by takamishanoku
6950 is dead after 560, unless they drop the price sharply. Nobody would bother to buy one, let alone tow.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMuppet
If somebody wants to go for a CFX or SLI, then 560 SLI is a cool, quiet, power efficient, ... etc with a great performance. Why should anybody bother to go with 6950 CFX?
I don't believe 6950 is dead... i mean, in all reviews i saw, i didn't see the 560 being superior to the 6950 :) much the other way
It's a little hotter than the 560 but consumes a little less ...
So... don't understand why it's dead :)
Sam dude, I love nVidia but you're coming across as their biggest fanboy - and not just in this thread ;)
6950 will continue to enjoy large success as long as they unlock to 6970.
I believe they need to drop the price on 6950, otherwise it will be pragmatically be dead. Because as it is, 560 beats it in price, performance, OC-headroom, with almost the same power usage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmodum
I just got a GB OC 560 myself, and still testing, but I'm really happy with it so far. It's really cool and quiet, and this would make it a great candidate for a SLI setup too.
Stamping me won't prove your points. I got a 560 and I'm really happy with it. You got a problem with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Oj101
Im expressing my ideas as i believe it. I respect your (and others) ideas without calling names. What you say proves your own attitudes, not mine.
I suggest we all keep it civilized. Attack the point, not the person.
Sam, but how does it beat the 6950 in performance, if the 6950 was in most cases faster than the 560 ... sometimes by 10fps and more?
Are you talking in terms of a overclocked 560? I'm talking stock... performance wise, we analyze it stock... because if not, i can bios mod the 6950 too and then the 560 will say byebye ...
I don't really get ... it's an amazing board, yes ... but it's not better than the 6950 at stock... yes, it's a overclockers joice, because of the OC headroom ... but...
Oh well... i've always used Nvidia, but i can see a good chip in the 6950 too :) And they just launch the 1Gb version of the 6950 the price will roughly the same as the 560 ...
I didn't test both cards, but my trusted source of review has tested both and Aanad has concluded :Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmodum
You can read it here: AMD’s GTX 560 Ti Counter-Offensive: Radeon HD 6950 1GB & XFX’s Radeon HD 6870 Black EditionQuote:
AMD’s GTX 560 Ti counter-offensive leaves us with a few different thoughts, none of which have much to do with the GTX 560 Ti.
Many other rewires say something similar, and I'm very happy with 560 myself so far. If you still mean 6950 is better, that's your view, right or wrong doesn't matter.
None of us are judges, we just express our ideas, and hopefully learn from different ideas, and each other.
Of course :) No one is saying "i'm right you're wrong and i don't want to talk more about it ! " it's all about points of view...
But i've seen different conclusions from another websites...
It's a pretty close match between both AMD and Nvidia solutions :)
That's what makes this card so interesting. I hope it does turn out to be real. I don't know what chip they end up using. But if it is the equivalent to it's ATI counterpart, it will be very interesting indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmodum
Are you talking about the 590? Well, my guess is that they are going to use a down-clocked GF114 like the one in GTX 580 ... with the GTX 295 they used the same chip in the GTX280 down-clocked to GTX260 clocks... my guess they will do something similar here :) But my guess is a <=400W TDP ... i don't believe they will manage to get a 300TDP with this one ...
yeah, I agree. :) There is different kind of conclusions depending on what review you read.:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmodum
Unfortunately, this GPU-business is more like monkey-business in these days, with too much PR, agents, etc .. . We still have many good review sites, but a few are willing to change their conclusions for a few slants too.
Therefore it's important that we as a community can exchange ideas and experiences in a impartial way, based on our hand on experience, to help each other to make a better HW-choice. But if we stamp all different ideas as "fanboy" or other personal-attacks, then it can get really difficult to figure what is good or bad. We all need to develop a wider vision by being tolerant for different ideas and experiences.
I don't really care if they do go over the 300watt TDP. As long as it is fast. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmodum
Fixed :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
And no 2x GTX560 1Gb @1GHz can beat 2x HD6950 2Gb @HD6970 880/1375.
We have already seen a couple of 560-2GBs, announced. They would be perfect candidate for better SLI-scaling, and would probably overcome what you are pointing out. My loaal dealer has just listed 560-2Gb's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh
You fixes doesn't matter that much, because mainstream is not about the crown, and there i different ideas about it too. The mainstream is all about price/performance-ratio. Specially for these cards that are so close to each other. I've already said at release date, and repeated later too, the final chapter of this round will be written in a price- war.
As it's, 560 is selling 10% cheaper than 6950, generally. At my big local dealer (in Norway, which always is updated on price and stock), the cheapest 6950 is 10% more than 560, and the most expensive 6050-2GB is 8% more than most expensive 560-2GB.
As it's, 6950 has lost the price war, and this the most important war for mainstream ( specially at this round). This discussion started when I said, 6950 is dead practically, nobody would buy it, unless they drop the price sharply.
I thought the gtx295 had two gtx275 but downclocked so the termals would be in check. And I think everyone agrees that if Nvidia would ever bring a dual GPU monster with this generation, the GTX560 Ti would be the best bet. 2X 570 or 580 is impossible, they could never pull it off; and even if they did, the GPU`s would need to be severly gimped to meet the power and thermal limits.
Here your price/performance:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=gra16_512...=gtx560&sort=p
Palit GTX560 1 and 2Gb : 212 and 252 euro vat included
http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=gra16_512...=hd6950&sort=p
Sapphire HD6950 1 and 2Gb: 214 and 235 euro vat included
You say that HD6950 is lots the price war, this is you opinion, but in price/performance is well in battle, single cards and more in Crossfire vs Sli for better scaling.
I don't care for "crown", but I just pointed and fixed your power efficiency and performance of GTX560 vs HD6950.
If I understand you right, I think we agree, those details doesn't count that much for these cards. They are too close to each other to make a big different, Of course that different sites are concluding differently too, and it's not easy to distinguish the performance and power-usage. i still mean 560 have the upper hand, but you may have your own ideas about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh
I think we also agree, th price is going to decide the outcome now. The real retail-prices for 560 is generally 10% cheaper now. So I guess you have no choice than to agree, they have to drop the price of 6950 to survive. But you have the right to insist on your idea, even when hard reality slams it.
You unlock 6950 to 6970 and roflstomp over 560 while spending slightly less. End of story...
So the good "old" 6950-2GB is meant to counter 560 now? I thought AMD ha just released 6950-1Gb for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
My local dealer is selling the cheapest 6950-2GB for 23% more than cheapest 560-1Gb. I don't think that's the end of story, but you may have your idea about it.
What a load of bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:, get ur facts straight and stop messing with the readers. GTX 560 scale worse in SLI then 6950 in CF, the gain for 560 is ~60% and for 6950 the gain is ~91%. I read that u dont like the word fanboy, but that statement had alot of fanboy content and thats my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Again a load of bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:. The prices in norweigan may have a 10% difference ( yet alone your local dealer )but in the rest of the world they both land at the same price. So i say again get ur facts right before u post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Sam... man... your fanboy side of nvidia is shaking the grounds ...
Calm down ...
I can get the 6950 2gb for 248Eurs here...
:)
It's just for you to understand ... Nvidia is great, for 2 years, i've been running a GTX 295 without a single problem... but damn, ATI has some good boards too for the mainstream market!
And GTX 560 can compete to 6950's and be better, because you overclock the hell out of them! ...
See some reviews:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforc...560-ti-review/
http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-n5...er-ii-review/1
http://www.guru3d.com/article/gigaby...i-soc-review/1
All of them are testing with 6950 on stock clocks...
I'm not saying things just because i'm against you ... i'm just relaying in some facts ...
BUT ... this is a GTX595 thread, maybe we should stop discussing GTX560 issues here ;)
You guys are new here, but we don't talk that way in this forum.
Get your acts together and write in a civilized way, without stamping others, personal attacks, and offensive Language, then I may answer your questions.
Damn newbies
New here? Sam... maybe i'm not that active... but i've been here since dec 2008 ...
And there's nothing wrong with i wrote...
jeez...
So just because we registered late on this forum we dont have a legit opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Ive been reading this forum since the opening day, but just registered.
You must really love your nvidia company, now that you bought a gtx 560 you have to convince yourself it was a great buy and better than the other side, thats just pathetic and in many ways makes your posts misleading for the readers and potential buyers.
Also i cant seem to see any personal attacks, offensive language or uncivilized posts or maybe im just blinded by the red light.
Ontopic: As i said before this is all exciting and i will look forward to the day when they both have a dual gpu card this generation. I just think it will be harder for Nvidia to make a great card thats inside the PCIe 300W standard.
I was motley referring to the other newbie, but if you know how to act in a forum, then why are you acting like that then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmodum
You can write about you idea, as you like, but you have no right to tell me what to write, or not.!
Nobody, either newbie or not, should use offensive language just because they have differer ideas, meaning, and experiences. Nobody have the right to use offensive language to make a point.
We are not here to fight each other, we are hear to fight the points with constructive arguments. Personal attacks is easy, but it doesn't belong to sch a forum. We are here to discuss HW, not person.
I see that Sam_oslo is going into his usual routine.
Unlocked 6950 2GB (= 6970 2GB) is significantly faster than 560 2GB. While being around 10% more expensive than 560 1GB. Extremely attractive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
6870 is maybe 10% slower than 560 1GB while being 10% cheaper. Competitive enough.
6950 1GB is slightly faster than 560 1GB while costing the same. Competitive? Sure.
German pricing.
http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/im...GTX-560-94.jpg
Sam... i didn't say anything about what you should write or not ... and there's nothing wrong with my posture in this forum. I give you facts... i don't just make some kind of statements without even knowing they are true or not.
I don't understand what you want to achieve with this... You are acting like you are being chased by something...
I didn't see any kind of personal attacks... i just see you over-reacting... nothing more... and about something that you shouldn't ...
And please... don't use the "time spent on this forum" as a hierarchical status of some kind... it really isn't factor to take in consideration here...
BUT ... let's get back to the GTX 590.
Well... i'm really curious to know the clock speeds that they will use on the card... They have some TDP limitations due to some rules about power consumption ... and that's the big "question" imo :)
One thing i think is funny about that is that the GTX 480/580 have a TDP of around 240-250W and thats about what they draw at maximum, BUT the 5970 wich has a TDP of 300W draws less power than GTX 480/580.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmodum
We all know that AMD and nvidia uses different solutions to find out the TDP of a card, but the 5970 is really overbuilt :D it will be fun to see the "real" powerdraw of the new dual gpu cards and not just the TDP :rolleyes:
Yes... but... the GTX 5xx series were more efficient than the GTX 4xx series... that's for sure.
It will really end up with price battle... my guess is that both will be really good...
I don't know how's ati CF profiles doing. I did read in the past that they were launching weekly or 2 in 2 weeks, new profiles... is that true?
With my GTX295 i never worried too much about the SLI performance, although, there were a bunch of games, that just recently ( i mean ... in the last 3 versions of the drivers ) where 100% supported... :x
So... scalability... SLI/CF Profiling ... that's going to be some of the most important aspects for these dual GPU's ...
From reading... i see many ATI users really pissed off about CF profiles not working... :x That, for me, can be a big handicap on the 6990 ...
And of course... the price... my fear is that this Beast... will be blown away by the price tag...
It will be a Beast for sure... :)
Sam Oslo.
The FACTS.
GTX 560 Doesnt overclock better than 6950.Proof:
Palit Sonic (pre overclocked better than stock cooler):
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Palit/GeFo...tagetuning.jpg
Or the reference model:
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeF...tagetuning.jpg
No stable 1ghz.But there is possibility of a better sample.Lets say 1ghz.
MSI HD6950:
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/HD_685...tagetuning.jpg
Or MSI TwinFrazor:
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/HD_695...tagetuning.jpg
So the cards overclock THE SAME.
Taking into consideration that 6950 starts from 25mhz lower clock, even ATI OCs a lil better.
Power Consumption:
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeF...power_peak.gif
560 pulls 20W more, not a big thing.But a lil more, so its worse a bit in this regard.
Performance in the target mainstream resolution :
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeF...rfrel_1920.gif
Again, a little slower, in the big picture ,cards perform the same.
CFX scaling on the 6950 is a little better than GTX 560.
Price difference between both (1GB and 2GB models for both camps) isnt really more than 5-7%.
So from this picture a sane and reasonable person can only conclude, that both cards are almost identical taking into consideration a lil better perf of HD6950 and a lil lower price of GTX 560.
How in the hell can someone claim that 560 "destroys" hd6950 is beyond me.
Sam ,for the love of everything, stop dividing by zero :P
Wtf? You need to lay off the testosterone man :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Claiming you a long-term member here and trying to lecture others...
6950 1gb are for noobs that don't know how to unlock the 2gbs
I like the 560s more as well but the 6950s aren't dead...
You see we started this discussing about survival of the direct competitor of 560, also the 6950-1GB's. I was referring to that when i said, it's dead, nobody will buy it unless the drop the price.Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
This statement "6950 1GB is slightly faster than 560 1GB while costing the same" is debatable, and there is different meanings about it. I personally (and several serious reviews too) mean 560 has the upper hand in performance/power-usage/OCing headroom.
Anyways, we can always argue and never agree, but that's OK, because the price/performance-ratio is the most important factor in mainstream generally, and specially in this round where these cards are pretty close to each other.
My statement was based on my own research, where I did a few days ago and ended up buying a 560. it's based on the prices at my local dealers. They are selling the 560 generally 10% cheaper then 6950 (which i have already provided links for), but if those German-pricing are current then these is another history, then either AMD has drooped the price, or something else. but anyways, it proves the point i was trying to make. Same point that I got flamed for. My main point was, and still is, they have to drop the price to survive, and they seams to have done it. Those German sites has proven my point was right!
I got flamed for saying they can't sell the 6950 for 10% more, they have to drop the price to become competitive and survive, and now your German-pricing are confirming the exact same point.
Do you think i can get a apology for all those baseless claims and all those aggressive flames? I don' think so, some will still try to be funny again, tomorrow too. LMAO.
No :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
You got "flamed" because you say: "gtx560 win battle for price/performance, power efficiency and also for Sli vs Crossfire. HD6950 is "dead" and lost the battle."
All without any proofs.
And I proved you (with others) that all these "opinions" are just that: opinions :)
Facts says that price HD6950 1Gb = GTX560 1Gb with better perfomance
HD6950 2Gb cost less than GTX560 2Gb, and offer better price/performance with or without overclocking, of both 1 and 2Gb.
You have an GTX560 1Gb @1GHz?
Oh great clock, but lose vs HD6950 2Gb@ 6970 with only 920_1400 :yepp:
Or, if you prefer:
MSi GTX560 Twin Frozr II:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-n5...r-ii-review/20
vs
MSi R6950 2Gb Twin Frozr II:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-r6...i-oc-review/22
And second win, without mod ;)
Facts says that Crossfire HD69xx scale better of SLi HD5xx (580, 570 and 560).
Power consumptions are same, but HD6950 offer higher performance in single and Crossfire, so is more efficient than GTX560.
All those facts prove my points: where are yours? ;)
I stop my OT now in this thread :)
If your going to make a case about pricing your local dealer is not a reliable source to back your arguement. Main sstream etailers like newegg would better back your claims though there is only a like a 10 dollar price difference so that arguement you have is moot at best. If you want to back up your performance claims post some links because no one cares about your personal experience because it can be biased. Also no one said anything to warrant any sort of apology so grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_oslo
Sam, I'm going to make a serious suggestion here. Edit the text out of your posts and take a breather from the new section for a bit, the staff here might not be tolerant. It really does seem that you're throwing your toys out of the cot - sorry dude, saying it for what it is. Nobody here has said anything bad about you.