Hack gets PhysX and Radeon working again

im going to swap in my 9800 gt EE tomorrow after getting my new heatsinks for the 9600GSO's that will be shuffling around in my systems.

i downloaded the 1.02 mod files so we shall just have to wait and see what goes down tomorrow. thanks for the pointer to the 1.02 mod files

I've been running PhysX/ATI 5850 for some time now on a 620W (Corsair HX) + 4ghz i7 + 3 disks. As long as that Seventeam is legit you should be good to go.

A card running just for PhysX isn't really loaded at all compared to when it's asked to render 3D images. My GTS250 barely goes above idle temps while running 800/2000/2500 during PhysX apps while running the fan on auto which never goes over 30%.

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Originally Posted by CraptacularOne

A card running just for PhysX isn't really loaded at all compared to when it's asked to render 3D images. My GTS250 barely goes above idle temps while running 800/2000/2500 during PhysX apps while running the fan on auto which never goes over 30%.

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lol if you are referring to my swapping of heatsinks, its because all of the computers in my bedroom are running nearly full-tilt with BOINC stuff.

so in effect, it is most certainly not sitting idle :D anyway, one of these 9600GSO's never even runs quiet at all, despite being controlled by PWM, and the other 9600GSO's fan bearing is waaaay past its time, and it rattles pretty aggrivatingly.

its all good though, im definitely a sticker for silently running pc's, and given that there are three in my bedroom, its a necessity for my sleep ;)

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Originally Posted by brinox

lol if you are referring to my swapping of heatsinks, its because all of the computers in my bedroom are running nearly full-tilt with BOINC stuff.

so in effect, it is most certainly not sitting idle :D anyway, one of these 9600GSO's never even runs quiet at all, despite being controlled by PWM, and the other 9600GSO's fan bearing is waaaay past its time, and it rattles pretty aggrivatingly.

its all good though, im definitely a sticker for silently running pc's, and given that there are three in my bedroom, its a necessity for my sleep ;)

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I like silence too, but I'm no stickler for it. I'm a gamer, and most of the time when my PC is on any sounds of the PC are drowned out by the sounds of gun fire, tires screeching or explosions going off....lol.
:lsfight::shoot::frag::gamer::explode:

How would an 8800GT-256 compare to a 8800GT-512 if it's only being used for PhysX? I have an old 256 card laying around.......

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Originally Posted by Bobsama

How would an 8800GT-256 compare to a 8800GT-512 if it's only being used for PhysX? I have an old 256 card laying around.......

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It wouldn't perform any differently than the 512MB model. PhysX only requires 256MB to run. THe specs of the 256MB and 512MB model 8800GT are other wise the same. Toss the 8800GT in there and take it for a spin :)

Alright, I have a newbish question. I am very familiar with pc's, but this I have no clue about and have found nothing except this forum in my searches. People talk of running games with 2 cards and one of them is dedicated to physx. how is this accomplished. I am looking at getting a lower end nvidia card for physx to run with my ati card. I guess the part I am really confused about is having two output sources to one input source. split cable? is it that simple? just want to make sure i have an idea how to do this before i make the purchase.

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Originally Posted by liquor711

Alright, I have a newbish question. I am very familiar with pc's, but this I have no clue about and have found nothing except this forum in my searches. People talk of running games with 2 cards and one of them is dedicated to physx. how is this accomplished. I am looking at getting a lower end nvidia card for physx to run with my ati card. I guess the part I am really confused about is having two output sources to one input source. split cable? is it that simple? just want to make sure i have an idea how to do this before i make the purchase.

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If you have an ATI and NV card installed on the same system you can hook up one of the DVI/DSUB ports the NV card to a spare input on your monitor, if you have a spare input on your monitor, or hook it up to a different monitor. I have a monitor that has both a DVI and DSUB input. I hooked up the ATI to the monitor via DVI and the NV to the same monitor via DSUB.

I dont see how that would work. I have a single input source (monitor). If I connect it with separate cables. They will not produce images on the same input channel. Different and separate output sources. (2 different cards 2 different cables means they are not assisting each other in producing an image at the same time). If I hook up one card with DVI and the other HDMI. The DVI shows when monitor is set on "digital" input and HDMI shows up when on "HDMI" input. Such as Video 1, Video 2 on tv's. Hence, why it would seem that I would need a split cable to do this. My monitor has DVI, HDMI and VGA inputs.

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Originally Posted by liquor711

I dont see how that would work. I have a single input source (monitor). If I connect it with separate cables. They will not produce images on the same input channel. Different and separate output sources. (2 different cards 2 different cables means they are not assisting each other in producing an image at the same time). If I hook up one card with DVI and the other HDMI. The DVI shows when monitor is set on "digital" input and HDMI shows up when on "HDMI" input. Such as Video 1, Video 2 on tv's. Hence, why it would seem that I would need a split cable to do this. My monitor has DVI, HDMI and VGA inputs.

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the physX does not need to be attached to the monitor it's handles by the cpu / system os... So 1 cable going from the ATI card for Rendering and the PhysX is delivered much like the Ageia cards processing (there was no output on the cards)

Just an update of some noticeable performance increases via the combination of the 4870x2 and the 285 gtx cards...

3d mark vantage with just the 4870x2 = score: 16822
Same test w/ 285gtx installed = score: 19524

Thats nearly a 3000 point increase just by having physX ?
Just thought I'd post and see if others have received similar results...

Happy benching :)

What would be the ideal nVidia card to be paired with one 4870x2?

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Originally Posted by CraptacularOne

A card running just for PhysX isn't really loaded at all compared to when it's asked to render 3D images. My GTS250 barely goes above idle temps while running 800/2000/2500 during PhysX apps while running the fan on auto which never goes over 30%.

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if that's the case, why do the fps drop that much when activating physx with a dedicated card just for physx? doesn't look that efficient to me... :shrug:

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Originally Posted by RaZz!

if that's the case, why do the fps drop that much when activating physx with a dedicated card just for physx? doesn't look that efficient to me... :shrug:

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because CUDA kernels and directx shaders cannot be run simultaneously on the shader multiprocessors and the context switch isn't that fast in current nvidia gpu.

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Originally Posted by askimo

What would be the ideal nVidia card to be paired with one 4870x2?

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how many oranges can you eat with two apples?

so would the people who have bought nvidia cards for physx say it was worth the investment...?
were you impressed?

if so i might buy a Palit GeForce GTS 250 Green 1024MB.... just spotted one for £86

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Originally Posted by gamervivek

because CUDA kernels and directx shaders cannot be run simultaneously on the shader multiprocessors and the context switch isn't that fast in current nvidia gpu.

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That is supposed to be one of the big things nvidia has addressed with Fermi.

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Originally Posted by askimo

What would be the ideal nVidia card to be paired with one 4870x2?

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Well 1st I got an 8800 gts and I got a lotta lag and stuttering then a 9800 gt same results..... then i got the 285 gtx and it ran flawlessly with no drops in frames at all over the 4870x2 stand alone.. The 285 was a massive improvement..

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Originally Posted by purecain

so would the people who have bought nvidia cards for physx say it was worth the investment...?
were you impressed?

For the $200 I pd for the 285gtx , I'd say it was worth the investment (mostly knowing I could sell the card in a second and turn a buck :) but for $300 I wouldnt have done it just not that much of an improvement ( i got it for 1 game ..batman..)

if so i might buy a Palit GeForce GTS 250 Green 1024MB.... just spotted one for £86

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do it.. Think youll get simular results to the 285 anything less and your throwin money out the window :(

i see, i'll need the best card i can get my hands on... hmm i might wait for a fermi based product if thats the case... or pick up a 285 when there price drops...

thanks for the advice viccan...

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Originally Posted by purecain

i see, i'll need the best card i can get my hands on... hmm i might wait for a fermi based product if thats the case... or pick up a 285 when there price drops...

thanks for the advice viccan...

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No prob ..
The 285's a great card but it should not be demanding the $300+ its currently asking when you can pick up a 4890 for under $200...
But obviously hans the physX.. Question is what fermi card will compete with the 285, their flagship GPU at this point... and what will the cost of something similar/ comparable or better retail for??
The drop is coming.. Fermi looms :)

I'm playing all PhysX games with my GTS250 just fine. No lag, no slow downs at all. In fact I had an 8800GS before this card and it too ran all my PhysX games just fine. I actually regret buying the GTS250 because my 8800GS was doing the job just as well. You don't need a GTX285 just for PhysX man. That's way overkill for that.

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Originally Posted by viccan

Well 1st I got an 8800 gts and I got a lotta lag and stuttering then a 9800 gt same results.....

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Using a 9800GTEE with a 4870X2 at 1920x1200 and it's smooth sailing gaming wise.

My 8800 gts would play Batman AA but as soon as I cranked up my settings to 2560x1600 w// full aa and af maxed all the physx effects seemed laggy, I never tried it with any other game like I said only used it for batman so..... But there was a huge improvement going from the 8800 and 9800 to the 285...... there was no more stuttering...

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Originally Posted by CraptacularOne

I'm playing all PhysX games with my GTS250 just fine. No lag, no slow downs at all. In fact I had an 8800GS before this card and it too ran all my PhysX games just fine. I actually regret buying the GTS250 because my 8800GS was doing the job just as well. You don't need a GTX285 just for PhysX man. That's way overkill for that.

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In fact a recent review in this thread confirms what you are saying.
Having a separate gtx280 made no difference in framerates in PhysX enabled games.

That only confirms my findings. PhysX calculations alone just do not require a huge amount of GPU power to be processed efficiently. In my own tests between a 8800GS and my GTS250 used as a dedicated PhysX card the difference 1 - 2 fps at most in games that use PhysX. The most significant thing the GTS250 did over the 8800GS was boost my Vantage score by 500 points. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by CraptacularOne

That only confirms my findings. PhysX calculations alone just do not require a huge amount of GPU power to be processed efficiently. In my own tests between a 8800GS and my GTS250 used as a dedicated PhysX card the difference 1 - 2 fps at most in games that use PhysX. The most significant thing the GTS250 did over the 8800GS was boost my Vantage score by 500 points. :shrug:

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Yep. That's what I'm saying. It totally confirms your findings. As far as the 500 vantage score boost goes, it is probably either the clocks (8800gs 550/1375 vs. GTS250 738/1836) or the memory bandwidth 8800gs 30.8 GB/s vs GTS250 70.4 GB/s). So even though some people claim they are based on the same chip, gts250 is a quite bit of improvement over 8800 series. You wouldn't wanna spend money on a 8800 for PhysX right know unless there is one laying around.

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Originally Posted by SamHughe

Yep. That's what I'm saying. It totally confirms your findings. As far as the 500 vantage score boost goes, it is probably either the clocks (8800gs 550/1375 vs. GTS250 738/1836) or the memory bandwidth 8800gs 30.8 GB/s vs GTS250 70.4 GB/s). So even though some people claim they are based on the same chip, gts250 is a quite bit of improvement over 8800 series. You wouldn't wanna spend money on a 8800 for PhysX right know unless there is one laying around.

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I'm pretty sure the increase in Vantage came from the extra stream processors on the GTS250 as it has 128 of them where the 8800GS has 96. The 8800GS I had was run at 750/1800/2000. It was a little overclocking demon for sure. In any case, I'm happy to confirm my findings with a review that mirrors my results. The bottom line is that you just don't need a very powerful card if it's just going to be a dedicated PhysX card :toast:

Anything 8600GT or up is good enough for PhysX really.

It seems to me that the 240 GT would be the best physX card due to its low power consumption
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-138-_-Product

Yes?

also, do you all overclock your cards beyond artifacting? what i mean is, if a video card is artifacting due to high clocks, cant it still be used a a physx card without negative results?

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Originally Posted by KoHaN69

It seems to me that the 240 GT would be the best physX card due to its low power consumption
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-138-_-Product

Yes?

also, do you all overclock your cards beyond artifacting? what i mean is, if a video card is artifacting due to high clocks, cant it still be used a a physx card without negative results?

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I'd get this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500131

It's cheaper one slot solution and comes with 3D glasses. Noise has never been a problem with NVida cards.

So let me ask then... Having started out with an agia ppu w/ 128megs that wouldn't even work w/ batman, to a 8800gt w/ 640 megs and being somewhat sluggish at times, not for all scenes but for some ( like when papers would fly as you'd run over them while fighting the deformed 1st experimental black gate prisoner) then a 9800 gt w/ 512 megs same stuttering to the 285 gtx with no slowdown anywhere to be seen??
I mean I know the review said so but I have all three cards in my possession and these where my results... Now possibly its due to the 2560 resolution I run at or ?????? I dunno Im just stating my experience and not some reviews. The 8800 and 9800 had slight stuttering (again not every frame but in certain high physX scenes) while the same box with the 285 had none.. Doesnt make much sense..

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Originally Posted by viccan

So let me ask then... Having started out with an agia ppu w/ 128megs that wouldn't even work w/ batman, to a 8800gt w/ 640 megs and being somewhat sluggish at times, not for all scenes but for some ( like when papers would fly as you'd run over them while fighting the deformed 1st experimental black gate prisoner) then a 9800 gt w/ 512 megs same stuttering to the 285 gtx with no slowdown anywhere to be seen??
I mean I know the review said so but I have all three cards in my possession and these where my results... Now possibly its due to the 2560 resolution I run at or ?????? I dunno Im just stating my experience and not some reviews. The 8800 and 9800 had slight stuttering (again not every frame but in certain high physX scenes) while the same box with the 285 had none.. Doesnt make much sense..

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You're right it doesn't make any sense. Maybe it was your 285 running the whole thing and not 4870X2 + 285. There is only one way to solve this puzzle. You do the same Batman:AA benchmarks with all four cards and post the results. Stuttering means you are getting less than 20 FPS maybe less that means what your 4870x2 can do by itself. Maybe with the 8800 and 9800 the physX wasn't enabled properly. I don't think Ageia PPU should even work with the new NVdia drivers.

I'm going to vote that PhysX was broken on the 8800/9800.

Make sure to do taskmanager/fraps graphs.

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Originally Posted by viccan

So let me ask then... Having started out with an agia ppu w/ 128megs that wouldn't even work w/ batman, to a 8800gt w/ 640 megs and being somewhat sluggish at times, not for all scenes but for some ( like when papers would fly as you'd run over them while fighting the deformed 1st experimental black gate prisoner) then a 9800 gt w/ 512 megs same stuttering to the 285 gtx with no slowdown anywhere to be seen??
I mean I know the review said so but I have all three cards in my possession and these where my results... Now possibly its due to the 2560 resolution I run at or ?????? I dunno Im just stating my experience and not some reviews. The 8800 and 9800 had slight stuttering (again not every frame but in certain high physX scenes) while the same box with the 285 had none.. Doesnt make much sense..

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If all those three cards were only being utilised for PhysX then the memory size is reduntant as a performance criteria.

If the first card has 640 megs of memory then you had an older G80 8800gts which has 96 shader processors, G92 9800gt has 112 of them clocked higher than the G80 8800gts and gtx285 has 240 of them.

From my limited understanding the resolution should not have an effect on the physics calculation and that the physics calculations are primarily affected by the computational power of the gpu, i.e. the shaders.

But the shaders processors and their organisation aren't the same in all the three GPUs, the 112 shaders arranged in 7 groups of 16 shaders in 9800gt and 240 shaders of the gt200 being arranged in 10 groups of 24 each.

The recommended settings call for a 9800gtx for physX at high, meaning an extra shader cluster compared to the 9800gt and is in a way similar to running gta4 on a dual core versus a tri core or higher.

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Originally Posted by gamervivek

If all those three cards were only being utilised for PhysX then the memory size is reduntant as a performance criteria.

If the first card has 640 megs of memory then you had an older G80 8800gts which has 96 shader processors, G92 9800gt has 112 of them clocked higher than the G80 8800gts and gtx285 has 240 of them.

From my limited understanding the resolution should not have an effect on the physics calculation and that the physics calculations are primarily affected by the computational power of the gpu, i.e. the shaders.

But the shaders processors and their organisation aren't the same in all the three GPUs, the 112 shaders arranged in 7 groups of 16 shaders in 9800gt and 240 shaders of the gt200 being arranged in 10 groups of 24 each.

The recommended settings call for a 9800gtx for physX at high, meaning an extra shader cluster compared to the 9800gt and is in a way similar to running gta4 on a dual core versus a tri core or higher.

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Well, this makes total sense. Thank you for relieving me the headache of running benches w/ all 4 cards again just to show Im not crazy... I do in fact have the 9800 gt and not gtx and the 8800 is about 3-4 years maybe?
But given this scenario to askimos & purecains question of what cards to match up,. it does make a difference for high settings (at least in batman)...

Thanks for the post gamervivek tremendous help :)

Hey, how does the Nvidia GPU's performance affect the overall performance with physx enabled?

Is it the same above a certain gpu speed, or would a gtx260 give much better fpx than a 9800?

I'm thinking of getting a 50$ 8600gt. Should I spend more and get a 9800/8800 and oc them?

I have a HD5850 @ 1020/1270

Edit: Did a bunch of reading would anything above a gt 220 make any difference?

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Originally Posted by adpr_02

Hey, how does the Nvidia GPU's performance affect the overall performance with physx enabled?

Is it the same above a certain gpu speed, or would a gtx260 give much better fpx than a 9800?

I'm thinking of getting a 50$ 8600gt. Should I spend more and get a 9800/8800 and oc them?

I have a HD5850 @ 1020/1270

Edit: Did a bunch of reading would anything above a gt 220 make any difference?

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I wouldn't bother with an 8600GT it's a horribly slow card to begin with and only just meets the requirements to process PhysX with it's 32 stream processors. My GTS250 runs everything that uses PhysX (all 5 games...lol) just fine. You don't even remotely need something like a GTX260 just for PhysX.

Keeping my 8800GT at bay was a good decision.