Printable View
I am tuning up and down your frequency to get this info as soon as possible. ;) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
Very, very interesting and it probably could explain why sometimes I have 2 or 3 GFlops of difference using LinX with the same exact setup.
rge only found a +2 when he was not overclocking. As soon as he changed the FSB by 1 MHz, the +2 was gone. He proved that it does exist if 3 of your 4 cores are idle. If any one of the three cores is doing anything at all then the Turbo drops back to the regular +1 multi.
+2 exists but was completely useless on his Gigabyte board because it is disabled the moment you start overclocking. Most XS users have a tendency to do some overclocking. The ones that don't, have been strung up out back! :D
In a handful of hours I will release the V8 version that rge was using to do his testing. It also shows how much the other cores are able to idle down. With fewer background tasks, the single core that is doing all the work can spend more time at the +2 Turbo setting. It was interesting to finally see some real evidence of what's actually going on in Core i7 CPUs.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
I decided what the hell. Why screw around all day while people are lining up waiting to do some testing. :)
Post some screenies if you learn anything new.
I'm just starting to understand what this tool is telling me. I believe it is accurate and I will explain it further for anyone that doesn't get it or doesn't agree with what they are seeing.
The download includes both versions. i7 Turbo V8 should show the calculated multiplier for all 8 threads if you have hyper threading enabled. When it shows one thread with an average multiplier at 14 and the other at 24 on the same core, I think that is a sign that the hyper thread has been put to sleep and has entered a C3 or C6 sleep state. You will need to enable these I think and probably lock your MHz to default in the bios to see the mythical +2 Turbo. Check out rge's posts on the previous page.
It is completely governed by your mobo manufacturer bios implementation, not by cpu, the cpu simply has that info available for use or non use.Quote:
Originally Posted by xpatar
Your bios manufacturer can choose to ignore turbo limits and throttling does not occur, so you just get a permanent +1 multi with turbo enabled. Most mobo manufactures have either disabled turbo throttling, or given the user the option in the bios to turn it on or off.
Asus is the exception, many of their mobos/bioses essentially screw you, and your cpu will throttle when you need the power the most, ie under stress. I believe some Asus mobo bioses implement throttling at temps >85C or total watts around 100 to 120. But how it is implemented current, watts, temps is completely up to the manufacturers whims via bios.
new bios 0007 (beta) for the p6t deluxe that fixes the problem but still nothing for the P6t6 ws revolution :down: was in spite of a topic on the asus forum:shakes:.
ASUS P6T7 WS SuperComputer BIOS 0210 (first revision) and Turbo throttling...
http://www.abload.de/thumb/turbodropruka.png
I just crossflashed successfully from 0504 V2 to 0007 V1.
Turbo throttling has been resolved and everything is working like a charm.:up:
Here a few pictures:
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...throttling.jpg
Multis don't change at full cpu load, pay attention at low cpu power consumption (unreal).
While @ idle:
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...322GHzidle.jpg
Thanks Kevin :up:
Stuff like that brings tears of joy to my eyes. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by xpatar
Your overclock looks much nicer now. Glad I could help.
Can someone explain the cross flashing procedure for the v2 boards? I'm sure there are a few users that would like to try this but are a little scared about screwing up their board or not being able to go back to v2 if they decide they don't like bios 0007. Do you lose any functionality of a v1 board after a cross flash?
So far I haven't notice any loss in functionality and according to ASUS the boards are almost the same. V2 doesn't have the sas controller.
As for the crossflashing procedure Amurtigress an XS member shows the way to crossflashing:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=521
After crossflashing from v0504 to v0007 I managed to raise my oc without turbo throttling,
bios version 0007 proves to be stable in the long run stress test:
Prime95 9 hours stable
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...rimestable.jpg
I'm going to check also with the new bios version 0006:D
I was hoping that ben805 could check out the new 0006 bios version but unfortunately he was a bad boy and has been Banned. :(
Maybe it's just a timeout.
Anyone that can run LinX at 4.4 GHz should be exempt from getting banned. If you are out there ben and have any interesting results from the new bios then you can send them to the email address in the About... box of RealTemp and I will be sure to share them.
It will be interesting to see if the CPU Power Value changes at all with 0006. Probably not. I think that's how they are tricking the CPU into staying at full power, all the time. Good for them. :D
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
Just added a small feature so you can minimize i7 Turbo to the system tray.
Updated to bios version 0006
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...2biosv0006.jpg
Again the same results, no turbo throttling, plus low cpu power consumption (unreal).
I can raise my oc @ 4.4GHz but that takes more than 1.6v Vcpu to keep it stable which results in very high temps:(
There was no way before bios 0007 and bios 0006 that you could run 4322 MHz at 1.56 volts and be hitting 90C without immediate turbo throttling down to a 20X multiplier. Thanks for testing that xpatar.
Bios 0006 shows a date of July 7th, 2009 so it's definitely a newer version than 0007.
Yes, turbo throttling was like a nightmare for the oc:yepp:
Is this a sign of turbo throttling?
http://pici.se/thumbs/t_NNRZKuozV.gif
Where can I get the 0006 bios to P6T deluxe v2 that everyone is talking about?
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6276/nnrzkuozv.png
Keep an eye on the calculated multiplier while your CPU is at full load. It should be steady at 21.000 and the standard deviation below it should be close to 0.000 which shows that all threads are reporting the same thing.
For accurate results, I suggest turning off any software that monitors motherboard voltages. On some motherboards, this can cause inaccurate results.
I like OCCT but when testing, try running LinX or Prime95 Small FFTs to keep it simple. RealTemp, CPU-Z and Core Temp don't seem to cause any issues with i7 Turbo. OCCT might be OK too but I haven't seen any testing of it yet.
This post in the P6T thread has a link to the 0006 bios if you need it.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=991
i7 Turbo 6.2
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
Use i7 Turbo V8. It's similar to the original but shows the calculated multiplier for each thread. At full load these should all be consistent at 21.000.
Okay, I tested linX now at 21*200 and the calculated multi does drop from time to time, sometimes it goes up to 22x to.Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
http://pici.se/thumbs/t_krdGmHZmc.gif
I'm going to flash the bios to 0006 to try it out as soon as I can find a solution to a minor problem.
After I have done a bootable cd with Nero and put Afudos ES and 0006.rom and started it up then I cant use my usb keyboard. :S
And one other thing, if I turn on any powersaving feautures (C-state, speedstep, C1E) I get a bsod just after the windows 7 logo appears, every time.
Is this something the 0006 bios might correct?
Because the powersavings feautures is important to me.
Does any one know why when I run LinX it throttling???
But it does not throttle when run prime95 or OCCT
I'm using windows 7 64bits
icecpu: That is common. LinX puts a bigger load on your CPU than Prime95 does so it's likely that LinX will show turbo throttling before other less stressful testing programs.
WeeMaan: Go into your Control Panel -> Power Options and set your Minimum processor state to 100% when testing. This will help keep your multiplier from dropping down at idle and will make your testing more consistent.
When testing with i7 Turbo, run a log file. Start with a mild overclock and make sure that you are getting consistent results from i7 Turbo. With turbo enabled, it should be locked on 21.000 and very steady at full load. A log file lets you see whether a low Calculated multiplier value is a one time random occurrence or as soon as the load and temperature goes up, the multiplier starts dropping down.
The only problem that I've seen with i7 Turbo is some programs on some motherboards that monitor motherboard voltages can cause the occasional dropout in the calculated multiplier. HW Monitor and Everest and perhaps OCCT might be a problem. That's why it's a good idea to test first that you are able to get consistent results from i7 Turbo.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
This update tries to filter out a few more of the random values that sometimes show up for the Calculated Multiplier at full load.
If you are having trouble getting consistent results at full load then post or send me your i7 Turbo log file so I can have a look.
SendSpace is a good site to upload a log file too.
Also let me know what operating system you are using and what other monitoring software you are using when testing and any other details you can think of.
Thanks.
Edit: RealTemp 3.00 can cause issues with i7 Turbo results when the internal timers overflow and wrap around back to zero. When you are testing, I recommend that you update to RealTemp 3.30 which handles timer wrap around better.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
What is the exactly meaning by turbo throttling?
The i7 Turbo v8 shows that the multiplier minimum changes from 21.000 t0 15.997, but that only happens 0.5 sec once per 15 mins when I use prime in-large to stress my CPU. Is that means turbo throttling?
At full load when running a stress program like Prime on a Core i7 920, your multiplier should be locked on its maximum of 21.000.
Turbo throttling is when the multiplier will start to cycle back and forth between 21 and 20 as the load and temperatures go up. When this first starts to happen, the CPU multiplier will be bouncing back and forth between 21 and 20 hundreds of times a second as the +1 Turbo feature is engaged and disengaged rapidly. When this issue gets more severe, the multiplier will be stuck at 20 and you won't be getting any turbo boost at full load.
i7 Turbo V8 uses the Intel method to calculate the average multiplier and should be able to report the first signs of any problems.
If you go into your control panel -> Power Options you should be able to set your minimum processor state to 100% when testing. One multiplier dropout every 15 minutes is nothing to worry about. Run an i7 Turbo V8 log file. It will clearly show a one time random drop out versus your multiplier constantly reporting a number less than 21.000. Post it here or send me a PM if you want me to have a look at it.
Thanks for the reply unclewebb, here is some screen shoot about it.
http://twryyg.blu.livefilestore.com/...throttling.png
By the way, I don't see the power option that I can change my processor usage.
http://twryyg.blu.livefilestore.com/...3Jz4/power.png
And here is the log file shows that I have turbo throttling once per 5 min.
http://twryyg.blu.livefilestore.com/...log%20file.png
Good news Stao. No signs of turbo throttling. The occasional glitch in i7 Turbo V8 is likely being caused by RealTemp 3.00 which doesn't do a very good job of dealing with the internal timers that have a problem with overflowing about every 5 minutes.
In the post just before you asked your original question it says this:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: RealTemp 3.00 can cause issues with i7 Turbo results when the internal timers overflow and wrap around back to zero. When you are testing, I recommend that you update to RealTemp 3.30 which handles timer wrap around better.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RealTemp 3.30 is new and improved so it and i7 Turbo V8 are able to share the system timers in a more friendly manner and your multiplier should be steady at 21.000 now.
rge sent me a log file recently of i7 Turbo V8 data where the calculated multiplier didn't budge once during 4 hours of testing.
Usually if you have EIST enabled in the bios there is that Minimum/Maximum processor state option. I'll have to go play with Windows 7. What motherboard are you using and bios version? DFI had some recent bios updates to take care of some Win 7 compatibility issues. You'll probably have to find another user with a similar system to yours to compare with. How low does your Calculated multi drop at idle?
If you go in your BIOS and turn ON "Current Voltage Override" ... you should NEVER see your Turbo ratio changing du to Temperature or Current, and the PCU (Power control unit) will refrein from modified your turbo ratios. You can as well increase the TDC and TDP value to match your own heatsink requirements.
It can still happen when you get to the critical temperature , close to 100C. If it happens, your CPU protect itself from getting too hot, since the Pentium III, this is the same mecanism. This one happens usually when your heatsink is not set up properly, or if you go stupid on the voltage with an unappropriate cooling technology on it ... 1.6V on aircool for example ... :)
Nice Tool! let me know if you need specs or support in the Futur.
Francois
Awesome news, looking forward to new improved turbo tool with Intel's help :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
Windows 7 generally looks like this.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9...weroptions.png
I have EIST enabled and C1E disabled in the bios. I'm not sure why some motherboards do not give you this option.
eva2000: I think the latest version of i7 Turbo V8 combined with RealTemp 3.30 eliminates a lot of the early bugs and inconsistent results (glitches) as I was getting to know how to use these timers. Now I just need to add proper support for Core i3/i5 and the new Core i7. Hopefully in the next few days.
Unfortunately Ｉ am using the Turbo throttling champion, Asus P6T Deluxe V2, BIOS version 0504. My calculated multiplier doesn't drop at idle I think, it's between 20.996~21.000
Seems like the problem is i7 Turbo v8 caused by RealTemp3.0, after change to RealTemp 3.30, no problems at all. I didn't see any signs of turbo throttling in log file. The multiplier steady at 21.000 now.
40 min prime test
http://twryyg.blu.livefilestore.com/...throttling.png
Nice to see your Asus P6T Deluxe v2 running steady at 4200 MHz and that you are finally getting consistent results from i7 Turbo V8 by using RealTemp 3.30.
When I originally wrote RealTemp 3.00 I underestimated how frequently these timers overflow and wrap around. At idle they only wrap around about once a week which isn't a big deal but when running Prime at 4.2 GHz, they wrap around in less than 5 minutes.
Now try running that same Prime test with hyper threading enabled. Your multi might not be quite so steady at 21.000 when you do that.
Your core temps with core 0 exactly 5C higher than core 3 while running Prime and the two center cores in the middle is what every properly installed Core i7 usually shows.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
Just a minor update. I added initial support for Core i3 / i5 / new i7 and even i9 as long as hyper threading isn't enabled. :)
I'm hoping to get some info from Drwho so i7 Turbo can correctly identify some of the new Core i ES processors better but at least it seems to work correctly with these new CPUs.
The V8 has been dropped from the name and the original i7 Turbo has been retired so now there is only one version. Nice and simple.
If you are still using RealTemp 3.00, update to RealTemp 3.30 which will improve the consistency of your i7 Turbo results since they both use the same internal timers.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
Here's a screen shot of rge running 10 hours of Prime without the calculated multiplier budging by 0.001 the whole time.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=3484
Nice overclock and temps. :up:
BUMP for this great tool that I've been using on my Bloodrage and DFI T3eH8 for turning turbo and C1E on/off and ensuring accurate clock measurement!!!
I really like the integration with RealTemp beta.. keep it up!
Thank you, unclewebb! :bows:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
You're welcome, Bo_Fox.
Just a quick update to better support the new socket 1156 Core i5 and Core i7 CPUs which have a minimum multiplier of 9.0.
Unclewebb, I am in vacation, I ll take care of all when I am back ... I did not forget you ! :)
Thank you Drwho? The more information you can send my way, the better tools I can create for the user community. :up:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
Thanks to rintamarotta, I was able to get i7 Turbo 6.8 to correctly support his T9500 mobile CPU.
These CPUs have a feature called Intel Dynamic Acceleration which is very similar to the Turbo Boost feature on the Core i7/i5 chips. The T9500 has a default maximum multiplier of 13 so normally it would run at 200 MHz X 13 = 2600 MHz. When IDA kicks in, the multiplier steps up to 14 when running a single threaded task.
In his screen shot while running a single thread of SuperPI, i7 Turbo shows that the multiplier is cycling between 13.0 and 14.0. A reading of 13.728 on the core that is doing most of the work means that it is spending 72.8% of the time at the higher 14X multiplier and the other 27.2% of the time at the 13X multiplier.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2005/t9500.png
The less background activity going on, the more the CPU can automatically step up and use the higher multiplier for a 200 MHz boost in performance.
Traditional programs that sample the multiplier once per second will not accurately show the true performance of a modern CPU that supports IDA or Intel® Turbo Boost Technology.
Edit: i7 Turbo is working correctly on the i5 750. This screen shot was while running a single threaded task. The two center cores are taking turns at being the active core so the maximum turbo multiplier is approaching 24 on these two cores, 23.733 and 23.829. The outside cores are mostly in charge of background tasks so they spend most of their time inactive which allows the other cores to try and work at 24X as much as possible.
At full load when all 4 cores are active (load > 95%), the maximum multiplier is limited to 21.000 as can be seen in the Min / Max data.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8893/i5750.png
Thanks jy_nz at Tom's for sharing that.
Edit: He was using an MSI P55-CD53 motherboard which allows for multiple bins of turbo boost (4) even when overclocking the BCLK. Very few of the socket 1366 boards supported this feature.
Bump for a great tool!!!!!!!!
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
Minor bug fix to correctly support Core 2 mobile CPUs that have the Super Low Frequency Mode (SLFM) feature that can drop the multiplier in half from 6.0 to 3.0 at idle. Any screen shots showing this would be appreciated.
Thanks to "somebody" on TPU for bringing this to my attention.
Edit: It needed one more little tweak but IDA and SLFM support is almost perfect. Here's the beta version so far.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...7/Turbo691.zip
If you have a Core 2 mobile CPU that supports either of these features, post some screen shots.
I love your tools Uncle, great job!
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
I've been tweaking i7 Turbo to better support the Core 2 mobile CPUs that have the Intel Dynamic Acceleration (IDA) / turbo boost feature as well as Super Low Frequency Mode (SLFM).
These include models like the early T7100, T7300, T7500, T7700 and the more recent P8000 and T9000 series.
The Intel publicly available documentation isn't very thorough so I could really use some feedback from users.
If you have any of the above could you try running i7 Turbo and make sure that it correctly reports your multiplier with IDA / Turbo mode enabled and disabled when running a single thread of SuperPI mod as well as when running 2 threads so the CPU is fully loaded. Include CPU-Z if you can but I don't think it is correctly reporting SLFM yet.
In theory, IDA is supposed to disappear when both cores are fully loaded but I've already seen a P8400 where this doesn't happen. IDA might be able to run full time when it's only giving the CPU a +0.5 multi boost.
Hyper PI is a good GUI for this kind of Super PI testing.
http://www.virgilioborges.com.br/vir...orges/hyperpi/
Post or PM me some pics and thanks for any help you can send my way.
Edit: Here's a screen shot from Stefan showing i7 Turbo correctly detecting SLFM mode where the multiplier gets cut in half at idle from 6.0 to 3.0.
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1899/i7turbo692.png
Don't complain that i7 Turbo is not "just like CPU-Z". Sometimes that's a good thing. :)
The high C0% at idle is also a good thing. The more a CPU is able to idle and slow down, the harder the active core is going to have to work to keep up with the background tasks. This CPU is only running at 800 MHz now externally and internally I think it might be running as slow as 400 MHz if this CPU supports Intel Dynamic FSB Frequency Switching where half the clock pulses get ignored by the CPU. That's my best guess at what the C0 number is showing you on a mobile chip.
Looks like fileden is down, do you have any mirrors for Turbo v6.92?
The FileDen site I use was causing problems for a day or two but the link above should be working OK now.
i7 Turbo 6.94 is the latest one. It took a few tries to properly support SLFM mode and IDA mode on the Core 2 laptop chips but I think it's 100% now and should support pretty much any Intel Core CPU as long as the internal timers are working correctly. Some early ES processors might have these timers disabled. If you have an Atom based chip, post some results if this program works or doesn't.
It looks like you were able to find the latest version BulldogPO. :up:
Uploaded it to my site for mirror download link to turbo 6.94 here http://nx.i4memory.com/i7turbotool/Turbo_6.94.zip
hello ... Can you help me?
I did the test for throttling , these are my results:
[IMG]http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3941/testth.th.jpg[/IMG]
how about this test?
tanks :)
I think i have a problem. Why this boxes are grey :
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4962/i7turbo.th.jpg
I remember, they've been showing some values in the past but not any more and i can't explain what is the cause to that.
No, you don't. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorat
Min and max will show data when your total CPU usage goes over 95% as written it the box to the right (load filter).
Middle and lower row of boxes are empty for obvious reasons. ;)