AMD Phenom II X4 (AM2+) Pricing revealed!

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Originally Posted by Chad Boga

He has referred to more "reputable", so what makes the other individual benchmarks more reputable than the Greek site?

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I don't think he understands what you're asking him. Fans have always marginalized benchmarks that their favorite doesn't do so well running. There are links all over the web touting Super Pi when AMD ran it faster. One guy found that by running at least 4 instances of WinRAR 4 X 4 could finally out run a Single Intel Q6600 and it became to most important benchmark on-line LOL! Hell, I even predicted it at [H].:rofl:

Meanwhile, I'm hearing about initial prices creeping up (2 VAR's). Now at $275 for the 920 and $339 for the 940. If that's the case, I'll just get a cheap P35 and stick my E8400 on it and get a 9550 for my current rig and wait until next year.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

Meanwhile, I'm hearing about initial prices creeping up (2 VAR's). Now at $275 for the 920 and $339 for the 940. If that's the case, I'll just get a cheap P35 and stick my E8400 on it and get a 9550 for my current rig and wait until next year.

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In the scheme of things at the moment, I feel the Q9550 is currently overpriced and I would like to see and think it might soon happen, a 33% or more price drop.

If that price drop doesn't eventuate soon, I would not be able to justify purchasing it at current pricing.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

I don't think he understands what you're asking him. Fans have always marginalized benchmarks that their favorite doesn't do so well running. There are links all over the web touting Super Pi when AMD ran it faster.

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Hmmm... I must have missed that!! AFAIK, Intel always beat AMD in Superpi results. There was a guy on Techreport who smoked my 3800X2 with a P4 Prescott, he was quite proud of himself even though that was the only benchmark he could win... :p:

Obviously that attitude goes both ways. :down:

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Hmmm... I must have missed that!! AFAIK, Intel always beat AMD in Superpi results. There was a guy on Techreport who smoked my 3800X2 with a P4 Prescott, he was quite proud of himself even though that was the only benchmark he could win... :p:

Obviously that attitude goes both ways. :down:

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Heh, I really do think the Super Pi emphasis that some people go for, is a bit out of whack. :shrug:

Donnie, yep, I'm watching prices *hard* and have been 3 separarte times today. I'm gonna continue to watch them. I fear that after the relerase of these CPU's, prices are on those Intel parts are gonna skyrocket. I've told freinds of mine already if they are looking at them to get them now before prices soar. The boards have went up a little right before Christmas (to be expected), but this might be the beginnings higher and higher prices. The cat's out of the bag now. What you are seeing confims what I'm seeing and what I predicted lastnight.

My God, I am so glad I was paying attention to stuff back last year and up until November and got my hands on that stuff early. Once the current supply runs out at e-tailers and they have to restock we'll see what really happens then. I really really hope it's not what I'm expecting.

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Donnie, yep, I'm watching prices *hard* and have been 3 separarte times today. I'm gonna continue to watch them. I fear that after the relerase of these CPU's, prices are on those Intel parts are gonna skyrocket. I've told freinds of mine already if they are looking at them to get them now before prices soar. The boards have went up a little right before Christmas (to be expected), but this might be the beginnings higher and higher prices. The cat's out of the bag now. What you are seeing confims what I'm seeing and what I predicted lastnight.

My God, I am so glad I was paying attention to stuff back last year and up until November and got my hands on that stuff early. Once the current supply runs out at e-tailers and they have to restock we'll see what really happens then. I really really hope it's not what I'm expecting.

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I completely disagree with your analysis.

The worst case scenario for consumers is surely Intel maintaining prices rather than increasing them.

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Originally Posted by Chad Boga

I completely disagree with your analysis.

The worst case scenario for consumers is surely Intel maintaining prices rather than increasing them.

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I feel that with amd being a lot more competetive, intel will be forced to lower prices(good for us). That's my prediction :D

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Originally Posted by rk7p5

I feel that with amd being a lot more competetive, intel will be forced to lower prices(good for us). That's my prediction :D

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I think Intel will weigh up short term profits versus doing damage to AMD.

I am just not sure what their decision is likely to be.

Keep in mind Intel cuts prices regularly anyway, what we will be looking out for is a price cut that isn't just the normal sort, but a clear response to PhII.

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Originally Posted by Daveburt714

Cybercat: You seem like a bright an rational guy. I'll be honest I'm not really a big gamer, to me my favorite game is pushing hardware to it's edge and still keeping it stable...

As for the $100k thing, building a PhII system will be substantially cheaper than building an equivelant Intel system. Especially for people who already have boards that can use it as a drop in replacement. ;)

Although I appreciate all the work OverClocker_gr @ HWBOX and the Greek guys have done I get the feeling that they don't really know how to tweak the PhII to make it shine. So before we start calling PhII a Non-competative and inadequate product with little monetary value, why don't we wait for the XS AMD folks who know how to tweak Phenoms get their hands on them and start posting results. :up:

I'm not calling you a troll, but to call the PhII a "lame duck" based on the limited availabilty of the chip is a little out of line IMO... :(

Honestly, even Overclocker_gr's reviews show the chip to be quite competitve... :yepp:

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No, it's not significantly cheaper. You can either get a P2 920 with a pricey motherboard (if you want good features) or you can get a Q9300 with a cheaper motherboard. All other stuff the same, the Intel system ends up slightly cheaper the way I've priced it all out, assuming the 920 ends up at the ideal price of $230 as it's supposed to.

Then there's the IPC discrepancy and power consumption issue. What sort of tweaking is supposed to make all the disadvantages melt away?

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Originally Posted by Cybercat

No, it's not significantly cheaper. You can either get a P2 920 with a pricey motherboard (if you want good features) or you can get a Q9300 with a cheaper motherboard. All other stuff the same, the Intel system ends up slightly cheaper the way I've priced it all out, assuming the 920 ends up at the ideal price of $230 as it's supposed to.

Then there's the IPC discrepancy and power consumption issue. What sort of tweaking is supposed to make all the disadvantages melt away?

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what do you mean pricey motherboard? the only motherboards over $200 use a 780a.

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

what do you mean pricey motherboard? the only motherboards over $200 use a 780a.

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Pricey when comparing a motherboard just under $200 (like the DFI 790FX-B or Asus M3A79-T Deluxe) and a motherboard under $150 (most of the popular Intel mobos).

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Originally Posted by Cybercat

Pricey when comparing a motherboard just under $200 (like the DFI 790FX-B or Asus M3A79-T Deluxe) and a motherboard under $150 (most of the popular Intel mobos).

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yea i guess its pricey if you compare a cheap intel motherboard with the most expensive amd ones. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

yea i guess its pricey if you compare a cheap intel motherboard with the most expensive amd ones. :rolleyes:

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Those aren't the most expensive ones. The ones I mentioned are the really popular ones. At the very least, motherboards with equivalent features aren't any cheaper, that's for certain. There is absolutely no price advantage to an AMD platform. Not until you start to look at i7, but i7 is also competing with C2Q for your money.

Then you say, "well P2 is a drop-in upgrade!" That saves you some money over a full platform upgrade, but what about the people that already have C2Q? They have no reason to upgrade, and they've had their systems for a long time now. Think of all the money they saved not having to upgrade.

Price value is a sticky discussion. I'll say there's really no advantage in either direction, and just stick with the issues with the hardware itself, which goes beyond the scope of this thread, really.

there are many motherboards that are cheaper and the only expensive ones are the ones that use the 780a which most people don't use.

you can get a 4 x pci-e AM2+ board for 100 bux

I only saw a few for intel and most of which where around 300

apples and oranges IMO

A good sAM2+ mainboard is as much expensive as a good LGA775 mainboard. So, at stock settings Deneb and Yorkfield have similar performance/price ratio, with an insignificant advantage of the Deneb platform. But when it comes to OC, the P45 based LGA775 mainboards are cheaper than sAM2+ SB750 mainboards, so Yorkfield platfrom has a little advantage.

So, to the table Deneb only brings the option of an cheap upgrade with a (finally) decent CPU for those who have sAM2+/sAM2 system.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

A good sAM2+ mainboard is as much expensive as a good LGA775 mainboard. So, at stock settings Deneb and Yorkfield have similar performance/price ratio, with an insignificant advantage of the Deneb platform. But when it comes to OC, the P45 based LGA775 mainboards are cheaper than sAM2+ SB750 mainboards, so Yorkfield platfrom has a little advantage.

So, to the table Deneb only brings the option of an cheap upgrade with a (finally) decent CPU for those who have sAM2+/sAM2 system.

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where are you getting this from? cpu + ram + motherboard? a 79T with a phenom II 940 and 2gb of 1066 is under $500. and besides getting one of the 780a motherboards no one cares about thats the most expensive it can get. plus after the phenom is released for awhile the prices will drop especially after the am3 versions come.

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

where are you getting this from? cpu + ram + motherboard? a 79T with a phenom II 940 and 2gb of 1066 is under $500.

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P45 + Q9550 + 2GB DDR2-1066 is under $500 too.

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plus after the phenom is released for awhile the prices will drop especially after the am3 versions come.

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hopefully, but then Intel will reduce the prices of Yorkfield, so it'll be status quo.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

P45 + Q9550 + 2GB DDR2-1066 is under $500 too.
hopefully, but then Intel will reduce the prices of Yorkfield, so it'll be status quo.

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Or i7 920 + 3x2GB DDR3 + GA X58 for 650$ :p:

Intel havent announced any pricecut besides the already planned one.

And AM3 chips (925 and 945) will just EOL 920 and 940. Tho 940 gets a longer lifespan.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

A good sAM2+ mainboard is as much expensive as a good LGA775 mainboard. So, at stock settings Deneb and Yorkfield have similar performance/price ratio, with an insignificant advantage of the Deneb platform. But when it comes to OC, the P45 based LGA775 mainboards are cheaper than sAM2+ SB750 mainboards, so Yorkfield platfrom has a little advantage.

So, to the table Deneb only brings the option of an cheap upgrade with a (finally) decent CPU for those who have sAM2+/sAM2 system.

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depends which boards you want to compare, for basic p45 with 1 pci-e you can compare it to amd 770-780 chipsets, for 2 pci-e you compare it to 790gx or 790f chipset while the 790fx with 4 pci-e has almost no competitor unless you pay the premium prices like the x58 boards which are now finally starting to go down a bit.

and who says you need a sb700 motherboard to be able to oc p2 higher? check the amd section there are already 3.6-3.7 oc's of p2 (even with the 920) on msi ka2 plat which are sb600.

still so sure about your price advantage?

euroland:

p2 920 already heading towards 200eur and 940be 240eur
long setteled intel prices are 235 for q9400 and 275eur for q9550

http://i43.tinypic.com/ega2r4.png

here are ON STOCK ...

Phenom II X4 940 - 277EUR, 394USD
Phenom II X4 920 - 237EUR, 337USD

Another Czech CPUs prices:

Core i7 920 - 248EUR, 352USD
Q9550 - 270EUR, 385USD

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Originally Posted by Chad Boga

In the scheme of things at the moment, I feel the Q9550 is currently overpriced and I would like to see and think it might soon happen, a 33% or more price drop.

If that price drop doesn't eventuate soon, I would not be able to justify purchasing it at current pricing.

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Sure, I think it is over priced as well and that's why I've not purchased one;) I don't think it will see a real price drop until Core i5 ships. For consumers' sake I hope I'm wrong. Yes there might be a sight price adjustment to about $289 or so +/- $5.00. If early Deneb tests showed it was really kicking booty, yes price would have already fallen.

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Daveburt714
Hmmm... I must have missed that!! AFAIK, Intel always beat AMD in Superpi results. There was a guy on Techreport who smoked my 3800X2 with a P4 Prescott, he was quite proud of himself even though that was the only benchmark he could win...

Obviously that attitude goes both ways.

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True, but going all the way back to 1995, AMD fans have been worse about it. Still doesn't make either side right when either side does it, kind of lame if you as me.

http://www.pcmoddingmy.com/print.php?plugin:content.363

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Originally Posted by PCM

Super Pi gives us a rough idea on how fast a processor is and clocking in at 30.47 seconds,

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the FX-62 is 10 seconds faster than the Pentium EE 840 at 1M calculation

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Cinebench is yet another CPU intensive benchmarking tool and works best with dual-core processors. The FX-62 is clearly better in both single and multiple CPU benchmarks as it lead the Pentium EE 840 by a big margin. The FX-62 is clearly the processor for you if you?re into 3D rendering.

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Again, trying to downplay or marginalize benchmarks is joke, just accept them for what they are, namely Guides and not much else. Just because one processor looses, doesn't mean that processor sucks.:up:

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Donnie, yep, I'm watching prices *hard* and have been 3 separarte times today. I'm gonna continue to watch them. I fear that after the relerase of these CPU's, prices are on those Intel parts are gonna skyrocket. I've told freinds of mine already if they are looking at them to get them now before prices soar. The boards have went up a little right before Christmas (to be expected), but this might be the beginnings higher and higher prices. The cat's out of the bag now. What you are seeing confims what I'm seeing and what I predicted lastnight.

My God, I am so glad I was paying attention to stuff back last year and up until November and got my hands on that stuff early. Once the current supply runs out at e-tailers and they have to restock we'll see what really happens then. I really really hope it's not what I'm expecting.

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Didn't want to make the other post even longer.

Of course that's possible but I agree with Chad. Intel doesn't need a price war with AMD. The economy is the only real thing keeping intel from jacking up prices already. I do mean the whole world's econmy, not just the US. Steady prices or small cuts is all I see.

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Originally Posted by OBR

http://i43.tinypic.com/ega2r4.png

here are ON STOCK ...

Phenom II X4 940 - 277EUR, 394USD
Phenom II X4 920 - 237EUR, 337USD

Another Czech CPUs prices:

Core i7 920 - 248EUR, 352USD
Q9550 - 270EUR, 385USD

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bad price, in germany on stock
x4 940 249€ without tax 284$
x4 920 212€ without tax 242$

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Originally Posted by AffenJack

bad price, in germany on stock
x4 940 249€ without tax 284$
x4 920 212€ without tax 242$

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...here in Spain prices are even bad:

x4 940 297€
x4 920 249€

If you want to convert from € to USD you'd better remove taxes first.

P2 940: 2801 SEK in Sweden which is 360 USD, and 288 USD without taxes.

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Originally Posted by mk_dir

...here in Spain prices are even bad:

x4 940 297€
x4 920 249€

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Phenom II X4 940 --> 238€ ;)

PCComponentes always charges a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of money at launch.

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Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Phenom II X4 940 --> 238€ ;)

PCComponentes always charges a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of money at launch.

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What a diference!

Whatever let's wait a couple of days, then we can establish "real" prices in order to compare with Yorkfields.

Saludos ^^

i would expect the prices to be bad before the chip is even officially released. :p: amd should announce prices within the next 3 days.

Im wondering how people could still be talking about Super PI, how we get 'proof' all the way from 14 years ago. Im sure I was playing with Super PI on a Pentium 75 while OC'ing it when I was 6:rolleyes:

Prices thus far here, 202 for 920 and Ive seen 242 for 940, although pricewatch doesnt include all prices, I dont think it's getting much lower before launch:confused:

Still having my order for 247:cool:

Really, whatever price it does finally release at, it's gonna get alot lower with the dismal performance numbers we've seen. I'm still in shock. I cannot belive that AMD hyped this thing up again like they did, or even entertained the notion of launching it until they got a competitive product. It's like they are willfully unleashing the last fatal blow to their own company. They *had* to release a topline product that could regain all that lost market and they didn't do it. How could they not understand that? Companies like this are in it to make money, and Governments are not gonna let companies just continue to pile on debt year after year. Those days are over.

Incredible how you can write post like this : so long and so empty in the same time :eek:

These are pre-launch prices.They re going to drop soon. I expect they'll settle around 200E for the 920 and 240E for the 940 in the short term. Considering a Q9550 costs upwards of 300E here, i feel these prices are quite competitive.

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Really, whatever price it does finally release at, it's gonna get alot lower with the dismal performance numbers we've seen. I'm still in shock. I cannot belive that AMD hyped this thing up again like they did, or even entertained the notion of launching it until they got a competitive product. It's like they are willfully unleashing the last fatal blow to their own company. They *had* to release a topline product that could regain all that lost market and they didn't do it. How could they not understand that? Companies like this are in it to make money, and Governments are not gonna let companies just continue to pile on debt year after year. Those days are over.

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:shakes:

So you two actually believe this thing is gonna be the magical CPU that is gonna turn it all around AMD? Do you really believe that? If you do I have a bridge in AZ I can sell you for a bargain price.

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Really, whatever price it does finally release at, it's gonna get alot lower with the dismal performance numbers we've seen. I'm still in shock. I cannot belive that AMD hyped this thing up again like they did, or even entertained the notion of launching it until they got a competitive product. It's like they are willfully unleashing the last fatal blow to their own company. They *had* to release a topline product that could regain all that lost market and they didn't do it. How could they not understand that? Companies like this are in it to make money, and Governments are not gonna let companies just continue to pile on debt year after year. Those days are over.

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I disagree.
AMD did not hype up PHII.
There was a bench-session to show the OC-community that OC'ing and AMD CPU would be fun again.
If anyone have hyped PHII it is the AMD-"community" which by far are 10fold worse than any Intel fanboi like yourself. :) (According to avatar).

For me the ci7 is just as hyped by the worst Intel fanbois.
They completely forget(or oversee) the fact, that even though the i920 is comparably cheap both to Yorkies (and "pre-NDA" prices for PHII/920), the rest of the system you need will make you eat porridge for months afterwards. :)
At least AMD rig-owners can drop in a PHII and nothing else (apart from Bios-upgrade most likely) and start benching/OC'ing. :up:

I am still optimistic for AMD/PHII.

And the preliminary benches we've seen are not that bad at all.

nothing magical about the i7 either IMO except you could probably cook a steak on it in less the 30 secs :D

I can't wait to see summer hit and all those 70c winter temps are gonna be melting some board lol

and what does a bridge have to do with PII pricing...

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

So you two actually believe this thing is gonna be the magical CPU that is gonna turn it all around AMD? Do you really believe that? If you do I have a bridge in AZ I can sell you for a bargain price.

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Will you stop flamebaiting. I believe that its faster than the similarly priced Q9400 and that at 60E cheaper than the Q9550 it is in a good spot price/performance wise.

:rofl: the bridge dude is a figure of speech. AZ is a desert...there aren't any bridges over water there becasue there isn't much water.

In other words, that stands about as much chance of happening as me actually having a bridge in AZ.

I could also say I could magically part the waters of the ocean, but that's not reality and won't make it happen.

Edited: Anyhow, these threads are all the same. Completely one sided like talking to brick walls. That's precisely why AMD has ended up just like they have.

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Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR

Will you stop flamebaiting.

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he can't :slapass:


Well you may need make part of the water come your way for sure cause when summer hits your gonna have a fry on your hands...:rofl:


your the one that came in here with your one sided story line.........

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Originally Posted by jonspd

he can't :slapass:


Well you may need make part of the water come your way for sure cause when summer hits your gonna have a fry on your hands...:rofl:


your the one that came in here with your one sided story line.........

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Whatever dude! Keep getting brainwashed with those green glasses on.

brain washed? and who's got the intel avatar stuck in there head :D

I have both intel and amd (see sig) and looking foward to having a I7 940 soon.

w.a.n.

Yeah, and I used to spend 8-10 grand a year on hardware. So what? Wanna know why I don't anymore? It's fanboys just like in this thread why I no longer do it. Next time you guys wanna come oput of the gate hating on people just becasue of their avatar, you might wanan find out if you hurting your favorite companies sales first.

It's been like that in every AMD thread I've came into, and it's why I wouldn't even consider building one of those rigs. Hell, I can't even stand to be involved in one of these threads. Why on earth would I buy one of these rigs only to subject myself to that kind of treatement?

You people that run your mouth like that run more people off than you could imagine. Then you wonder why nobody wants to screw with them? :rolleyes:

It's no wonder that company is darn near going broke. :shakes:

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Whatever dude! Keep getting brainwashed with those green glasses on.

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gently puts on "Special AMD 3D Glasses" .....and asserts self to hit you over the head with the Rhythm Stick for being a instigator and Troll:slapass:


'Oh......Dave ....where Art Thou???

Would you please put a end to this kid crapping on other members and ruing this thread

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Yeah, and I used to spend 8-10 grand a year on hardware. So what?

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Indeed, so what? Does this make you completely right?

I spend how much this year? 3K Euro? This makes me less good? I can tell you this, it's like... irrelevant and rather stupid.

And then I thought it couldnt get worse after the Super PI and 14 year old 'proof':shakes:

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Wanna know why I don't anymore? It's fanboys just like in this thread why I no longer do it. Next time you guys wanna come oput of the gate hating on people just becasue of their avatar, you might wanan find out if you hurting your favorite companies sales first.

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I like your avatar, it only needs 'K10 inside' on it though:cool:

Which brings me on a good idea

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

It's been like that in every AMD thread I've came into, and it's why I wouldn't even consider building one of those rigs. Hell, I can't even stand to be involved in one of these threads. Why on earth would I buy one of these rigs only to subject myself to that kind of treatement?

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And who exactly put a gun on your head and forced you to come into any thread when you'd buy an AMD rig? Just wondering, so am I why, if you're so disgusted about us, what you're doing here.

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

You people that run your mouth like that run more people off than you could imagine. Then you wonder why nobody wants to screw with them? :rolleyes:

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I ain't wondering anything mate, apparently you seem to live by the number of viewers in each thread. To be very honest, I couldnt care about that. Could be me only though:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

It's no wonder that company is darn near going broke. :shakes:

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Looking at stocks today it seems you're a bit clueless. If you would have said that any other day, I could see your point, but... This is almost humiliating.

Also, please someone clean this thread. This is just so wastefull:shakes:

i have gotten used to it since all the trolls are the same. they typcially have something that makes it completely obvious that they support intel. (avatar, sig, stuff in their profile) then they come in and act like they actually care about the performance numbers as if they are gonna get it. and then whenever it is released they just talk trash no matter how good or bad the results are. then they feel the need to call people fanboys whenever people try to tell their opinions that are different than theirs. then after awhile they will then go on and tell people to chill out, stop crying or something like that and start acting like they are the big boys just trying to clean things up. sigh can't block them all. hopefully after the chip is released this crap will stop.

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Looking at stocks today it seems you're a bit clueless. If you would have said that any other day, I could see your point, but... This is almost humiliating.

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sigh i keep telling myself i need to buy it since it follows a pretty easy pattern.

PII was overhyped by the die-hard AMD fanboys. There are a lot of them here, still living in denial, hoping for the magical +25% IPC gains over Agena.
Anyway, it is a very good CPU, much better than Agena was ever.

Finaly, after 3 years, AMD produced a CPU that is not crap. I'll get one for sure when it will be priced reasonably. Here the 940 is bloody expensive - 320 euros.

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

sigh i keep telling myself i need to buy it since it follows a pretty easy pattern.

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wish I would have got it at below 2 bux in dec.... :shrug:

BTW- there are many bridges in AZ.
Have you even been to AZ before T_Flight?
In about 20mins I could drive over 5 or 6 different bridges. Yes, over water.
Still haven't learned that you shouldn't talk about stuff you don't have a clue about?

Ontopic- While this isn't an Athlon comeback, this is a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Yeah, and I used to spend 8-10 grand a year on hardware. So what? Wanna know why I don't anymore? It's fanboys just like in this thread why I no longer do it. Next time you guys wanna come oput of the gate hating on people just becasue of their avatar, you might wanan find out if you hurting your favorite companies sales first.

It's been like that in every AMD thread I've came into, and it's why I wouldn't even consider building one of those rigs. Hell, I can't even stand to be involved in one of these threads. Why on earth would I buy one of these rigs only to subject myself to that kind of treatement?

You people that run your mouth like that run more people off than you could imagine. Then you wonder why nobody wants to screw with them? :rolleyes:

It's no wonder that company is darn near going broke. :shakes:

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Yeah, do yourself a favor and stay out of these threads, nobody will miss your stupid posts.

phenom 2 will be a hit cheap and affordable with decent oc levels! Unlike i7 that is so expensive to upgrade it seems pointless to spend that much!

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Yeah, and I used to spend 8-10 grand a year on hardware. So what? Wanna know why I don't anymore? It's fanboys just like in this thread why I no longer do it. Next time you guys wanna come oput of the gate hating on people just becasue of their avatar, you might wanan find out if you hurting your favorite companies sales first.

It's been like that in every AMD thread I've came into, and it's why I wouldn't even consider building one of those rigs. Hell, I can't even stand to be involved in one of these threads. Why on earth would I buy one of these rigs only to subject myself to that kind of treatement?

You people that run your mouth like that run more people off than you could imagine. Then you wonder why nobody wants to screw with them? :rolleyes:

It's no wonder that company is darn near going broke. :shakes:

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There have been some trolls that really get my blood pressure up but you my friend take the cake. I find your posts outright disgusting, now is the first time I truly see a point to using the ignore function.

Sorry to the rest of you for this flaming but I couldnt hold it back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Yeah, and I used to spend 8-10 grand a year on hardware. So what? Wanna know why I don't anymore? It's fanboys just like in this thread why I no longer do it. Next time you guys wanna come oput of the gate hating on people just becasue of their avatar, you might wanan find out if you hurting your favorite companies sales first.

It's been like that in every AMD thread I've came into, and it's why I wouldn't even consider building one of those rigs. Hell, I can't even stand to be involved in one of these threads. Why on earth would I buy one of these rigs only to subject myself to that kind of treatement?

You people that run your mouth like that run more people off than you could imagine. Then you wonder why nobody wants to screw with them? :rolleyes:

It's no wonder that company is darn near going broke. :shakes:

---

Yeah man, stupid fanboys causing AMD to lose billions of dollars of sales! :ROTF::rofl:

Wow, a lot cheaper than I expected them to be... though I typically don't buy processors until they drop to the $180 level...
Got my X2 4200+ for $185 in 2006
Got my Q6600 for $189 in 2008

Time to bring out my noob photoshopness:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9...copyyv1if9.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TL1000S

They completely forget(or oversee) the fact, that even though the i920 is comparably cheap both to Yorkies (and "pre-NDA" prices for PHII/920), the rest of the system you need will make you eat porridge for months afterwards. :)

---

Not anymore. ;)

Sub 200€ boards are already approaching and ddr3 prices are dropping. Sure its still a bit higher then P2 but nowhere near the intial prices (400$ boards, 400$ ram with 300$ cpu :D )´.

You can get away with 600$, and Ci7 is not even marketd as a mainstream.

P2 on the other hand is a mainstream product, even if amds internal diagrams show P2 940BE as enthusiast product, performance wise its in the performance segment (upper mainstream).

Its like always, you pay for what you get. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T_Flight

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brother Esau

gently puts on "Special AMD 3D Glasses" .....and asserts self to hit you over the head with the Rhythm Stick for being a instigator and Troll:slapass:


'Oh......Dave ....where Art Thou???

Would you please put a end to this kid crapping on other members and ruing this thread

---

This is a prime example of what I was talking about. You don't have the first clue who you are talking about.

FYI, I'm going on 43 years old kid. Do you see any annoying sigs in my posts? You have to have the stupidest damn sig line I have ever seen. On top of that, you are troll number one in every CPU thread you get mixed up in, and all you do here is cause trouble. In fact YOU (yes, YOU personally) were the fist one in that troll ridden AMD forum to convince me never to run an AMD system ever.

It was posts just like yours that convinced me if I needed new info on them and help with them that it would be a complete waste of my time and money. Take a look at the last time I posted in the AMD forum. Also take a good look at the number of people viewing the Intel forums currently, and the number viewing the AMD forums...there's your sign!

Money has never been the issue. I am 43 or will be in a couple weeks, and am retired. That should give you a clue as to what might've been possible had people like you and others not ruined it for me.

I realize that some of you have no clue about the people you've ran off, and you never will. See? There are some that will just bend over and tolerate it, but I'm not one of them. That's the problem here. You make damned stupid assumptions, attack everybody you don't agree with, and then wonder why things around here are like they are.

---

I think I just received my first Piece of Hate Mail:D:rofl:......Sniff....Sniff......I'll Never Love Again:ROTF::clap::rofl::welcome:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loser777

Wow, a lot cheaper than I expected them to be... though I typically don't buy processors until they drop to the $180 level...
Got my X2 4200+ for $185 in 2006
Got my Q6600 for $189 in 2008

Time to bring out my noob photoshopness:
snip

---

lmao :ROTF:

Egh, just wait for Intel to release Core i5. I love Phenom II like one who has nostalgic love for 60's muscle cars but I can recognize the passing of an age. K10 is already "old" with the introduction of the Nehalem monster. That being said, bring on the non-coldbugs Phenoms!:toast:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loser777

Wow, a lot cheaper than I expected them to be... though I typically don't buy processors until they drop to the $180 level...
Got my X2 4200+ for $185 in 2006
Got my Q6600 for $189 in 2008

Time to bring out my noob photoshopness:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9...copyyv1if9.png

---

Dude, where do you see Bulldozer? It's Deneb :rolleyes:

I also believe i5 vs. deneb is gonna be where the real battle is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Dude, where do you see Bulldozer? It's Deneb :rolleyes:

---

See his upgrade schedule. 2006...2008...2010 (?)

Bulldozer's definitely sampling at least in '10 (earlier news said 09 but eff that for objectivity), but we'd have to wait for '11 for a real CPU I guess.

It's rather obvious that if you have a (non-crappy stepping/VID) Q6600 for a "normal" rig then upgrading to either Deneb or Yorkfield is kind of a lost cause.

32nm 6-core i7/i8 might be a nice stand in, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caveman787

I also believe i5 vs. deneb is gonna be where the real battle is.

---

Yes and No! Performance yes, numbers wise not a chance in hell. Even if Deneb is good performance wise, their numbers will still pale in comparison. By the time i5 ships the market will still be saturated with Penyrns that are already plentiful.

Ph2 and their Dual Core counterparts will have a tough time because the markets aren't like any of the folks here defending and accepting anything AMD ships. They couldn't care less than they already do. They bought X2 when it was clearly better, even at higher prices. Until AMD makes that kind of processor again, they'll have problems and Deneb isn't another X2. AMD needs a nicely priced Winner, not a Pretender.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macadamia

See his upgrade schedule. 2006...2008...2010 (?)

Bulldozer's definitely sampling at least in '10 (earlier news said 09 but eff that for objectivity), but we'd have to wait for '11 for a real CPU I guess.

It's rather obvious that if you have a (non-crappy stepping/VID) Q6600 for a "normal" rig then upgrading to either Deneb or Yorkfield is kind of a lost cause.

32nm 6-core i7/i8 might be a nice stand in, though.

---

It's supposed to be funny, and I don't find it funny at all when we don't even know what Bulldozer is or when it's going to be released :shrug:

Also I find it hard to see why people is so impressed/needing new pants in this thread. Perf/watt Intel wins with even Kentsfield. Price/perf rough fight with Kentsfield, it depends of the application. Pure perf it loses to Yorkfield and i7. What's left? Agena? Hell yes it's an improvement but...

It's the same as in the past years, for me the only reason to buy this processor is to play with it and upgrade existing AMD platforms. In new systems for the same price you have faster Yorkfield combos. For more money you have even faster i7 combos :shrug:

So is AMD going with "920" in hopes people get confused and buy AMD instead of i7....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.Guvernment

So is AMD going with "920" in hopes people get confused and buy AMD instead of i7....

---

Some are saying that!:D:rofl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr.Guvernment

So is AMD going with "920" in hopes people get confused and buy AMD instead of i7....

---

Genius marketing, if you ask me. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caveman787

I also believe i5 vs. deneb is gonna be where the real battle is.

---

Well it already has 2 competitors, Kentsfield and Yorkfield. Kentsfield will be phased out soon, but Yorkfield will stay for a while. Since Yorkfield is faster IPC wise and clock wise, i5 can bring nothing to the table.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

Well it already has 2 competitors, Kentsfield and Yorkfield. Kentsfield will be phased out soon, but Yorkfield will stay for a while. Since Yorkfield is faster IPC wise and clock wise, i5 can bring nothing to the table.

---

I am sure you know this, but, if i5 has better IPC and thus significantly more performance than Yorkfield depending on how high they clock it, then surely it brings a bigger gap between Intel and AMD, thus an important weapon in Intel's arsenal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad Boga

I am sure you know this, but, if i5 has better IPC and thus significantly more performance than Yorkfield depending on how high they clock it, then surely it brings a bigger gap between Intel and AMD, thus an important weapon in Intel's arsenal.

---

AMD or not, Intel is fighting itself. Namely, how do they sell to folks stuff they don't need? Besides a few Fans here, AMD has the same problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

AMD or not, Intel is fighting itself. Namely, how do they sell to folks stuff they don't need? Besides a few Fans here, AMD has the same problem.

---

If one has an Intel Quad, and even more so if it is overclocked, then upgrading to a i7/i5 makes zero sense until possibly the release of Windows 7 and hopefully a new generation of games I suspect will be out between Q4 09 and 1H 10, like Id Software's RAGE and HL3.

However if you are on a Dual or single core, then for the reasons I have stated above in particular, Q4 09 will offer some compelling upgrade incentives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr.Guvernment

So is AMD going with "920" in hopes people get confused and buy AMD instead of i7....

---

Completely and utterly stupid if you ask me...and genius.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler

Egh, just wait for Intel to release Core i5. I love Phenom II like one who has nostalgic love for 60's muscle cars but I can recognize the passing of an age. K10 is already "old" with the introduction of the Nehalem monster. That being said, bring on the non-coldbugs Phenoms!:toast:

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i5 will be crazy. amd needs to have something whipped up before that comes out. maybe amd needs to think about implementing their own type of HTT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roofsniper

i5 will be crazy. amd needs to have something whipped up before that comes out. maybe amd needs to think about implementing their own type of HTT.

---

Why are you so convinced i5 will have such a dramatic impact on AMD?

Will the integrated PCIe controller make such a big difference for gaming?

How much better would i5 be for gaming than i7 at the same clock speed?

5%, 10%, 20%????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Donnie27

AMD or not, Intel is fighting itself. Namely, how do they sell to folks stuff they don't need? Besides a few Fans here, AMD has the same problem.

---

OEM market :), once i5 comes out Dell's new line up will be all i5 and i7 with their big sales selling older 65nm/45nm based rigs for discount prices, or their infamous %50+ off deals that in the end are barely that much off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chad Boga

How much better would i5 be for gaming than i7 at the same clock speed?

---

Nothing more than 5%. i5 is a nice deal, but I'm not sure what Intel really wants to do with it.

Integrating the PCIe on the CPU will help GPGPU apps if they're coded for it, but everything else... probably not. The latency shaved was going to be compensated for with other techniques in the end.

Right now any of these 3 (York/Kents/Deneb) can last in a gaming rig long enough till the next fundamental generation comes. Money for the CPU can be easier spent on the GPU instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad Boga

Why are you so convinced i5 will have such a dramatic impact on AMD?

Will the integrated PCIe controller make such a big difference for gaming?

How much better would i5 be for gaming than i7 at the same clock speed?

5%, 10%, 20%????

---

i7 doesn't compare with deneb. i5 does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad Boga

Why are you so convinced i5 will have such a dramatic impact on AMD?

Will the integrated PCIe controller make such a big difference for gaming?

How much better would i5 be for gaming than i7 at the same clock speed?

5%, 10%, 20%????

---

i5 actually was faster than i7 in a few benches done in this thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ht=core+review

This should answer some of your questions, as it comes from Blauhung:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blauhung

What he said, i5 boards (was that P55?) only require a single "bridge" chip (Ibex Peak) that pretty much only has functions of a south bridge. There is no longer any north bridge. This reduces the total cost of silicon per board. Add the fact that it's only using 2 channel memmory and then you can reduce the ammount of DIMM slots and traces from/to the socket. Also with far less components on board, the power delivery requirements are dropped way down and you need far fewer expenditures in the way of power delivery circuitry.

Finally, with all these reductions, mobo makers can do this all on 6 layer PCB's rather then 8 cutting costs by a final huge ammount.

So even though the cost per die to manufacture Lynnsfield/Clarksfield is pretty much the same as Bloomfield/Gainstown. The cost of the core i5 platform as a whole is greatly reduced from the end user standpoint.


edit: Oh yeah, and one more thing. I will be willing to bet that at the platform level, we will see on the order of a 10% power reduction between i7 and i5 at equal clock speed's and performance.

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PII's price may be a little on the high side upon release but as long as it overclocks well i'll be happy. I really like the 790gx mobos performance and their prices. DDR2 prices also really make it exciting to build an amd rig atm. Lots of fun overclocking plus a low entry price = :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.Guvernment

So is AMD going with "920" in hopes people get confused and buy AMD instead of i7....

---

Not sure, could be but to be honest say for your self;

If you buy a PhII 920 for an i7 platform because it was 70 Euro cheaper... Then how much of a stupid :banana::banana::banana::banana: are you:rolleyes: In such cases people dont even deserve a single transistor:ROTF:

For Deneb and i5, Ive said this a few times, I guess Deneb does make a chance. But this seriously depends on further steppings untill the first i5's come out though. I think Donnie said earlier i5 will be very cheap, I can imagine it wont be priced like i7 but then AMD seriously has to adjust either pricing or steppings to be more competitve. But hey, they've ~9 months to improve things, so lets see what happens:cool:

People ,just ignore that troll,he'll get bored and go away :p: .

Anyhow,ISA hardware lists Phenom II.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad Boga

Why are you so convinced i5 will have such a dramatic impact on AMD?

Will the integrated PCIe controller make such a big difference for gaming?

How much better would i5 be for gaming than i7 at the same clock speed?

5%, 10%, 20%????

---

HT is the key. i5 is a i7 with dualchannel. But still 8 threads and turbomode. Depending what you do, i5 could easily be 25-50% faster than yorkfield.

AMD might have something to counter it in 2011...maybe. But that would also be the second incarnation of i7 and i5.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roofsniper

i5 will be crazy. amd needs to have something whipped up before that comes out. maybe amd needs to think about implementing their own type of HTT.

---

Do you mean HT as in HyperHthreading?

I agree that ci5 probably will be a lot more interesting than ci7.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

HT is the key. i5 is a i7 with dualchannel. But still 8 threads and turbomode. Depending what you do, i5 could easily be 25-50% faster than yorkfield.

AMD might have something to counter it in 2011...maybe. But that would also be the second incarnation of i7 and i5.

---

Meh... Well, ain't HT getting a bit old now though?

I can imagine why it'sn on i7, it's designed for a whole other purpose then most of us use it now. But i5 is for desktop, HT barely does a significant thing, at least for gaming. So dont trough the magic stick on the fact it has HT. Integrated PCI-e controller would most likely be more favourable than HT, only for latency though but still.

I dont know when AMD can offer something against i5, although Im wondering if it's needed. Just as i7/i5 could be in 2011 on a better process, so can Deneb have some significant improvements before the actual i5 launch:rolleyes:

Time will tell though. Numbers hardly matter anyway, Agena was more a disaster because it couldnt OC very good. OC'ers killing people for a better benchmark number dont like that, go to Intel, average customers read and hear how and what and go with Intel. Now with the improved clocking I think they already gain a whole lot. Having a 4Ghz i7 or Deneb for gaming... Now dont tell me this difference is so significant you'd get an i7 over Deneb;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Meh... Well, ain't HT getting a bit old now though?

I can imagine why it'sn on i7, it's designed for a whole other purpose then most of us use it now. But i5 is for desktop, HT barely does a significant thing, at least for gaming. So dont trough the magic stick on the fact it has HT. Integrated PCI-e controller would most likely be more favourable than HT, only for latency though but still.

I dont know when AMD can offer something against i5, although Im wondering if it's needed. Just as i7/i5 could be in 2011 on a better process, so can Deneb have some significant improvements before the actual i5 launch:rolleyes:

Time will tell though. Numbers hardly matter anyway, Agena was more a disaster because it couldnt OC very good. OC'ers killing people for a better benchmark number dont like that, go to Intel, average customers read and hear how and what and go with Intel. Now with the improved clocking I think they already gain a whole lot. Having a 4Ghz i7 or Deneb for gaming... Now dont tell me this difference is so significant you'd get an i7 over Deneb;)

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Even i3 got HT :D

And saying you wouldnt need anything like i7/i5 etc is like saying you could run anything fine on a K6. Just as dumb as the slower but smoother agument. Also i5s purpose with ondie PCIe is a whole other thing than you think. We talk cheap boards and design. Smaller sizes. And the CPU will be cheap aswell. Tho i7 920 is already extremely cheap.

AMD will need HT and they gonna need it fast. You could end up with a dualcore i3 with HT whooping a deneb. Thats not gonna be fun. Nehalem got higher IPC than Yorkfield. Yorkfield got higher IPC than Deneb. Both Yorkfield and Nehalem outclocks Deneb. And Nehalem utterly destroys Yorkfield in performance not even to mention Deneb. This chip thats behind these 2 already is what gonna carry AMD to 2011. And on 45nm all the way.

Hopefully AMD will have both more cores and HT in 2011 to stay afloat. Even Larrabee got HT like Power, Itanium, Sparc, Atom etc :rofl:
AMD is more or less the last one without HT, and they desperately needs it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LOE

Shintai - you overestimate HT - it is not such a big deal, yeah there is some performance improvement but HT ain't no winning card

---

I wonder if HT on Nehalem Dual Cores will be much more effective than it is on Quads, as the real cores on the Quads are probably making the HT still largely superfluous on much of today's software.

Francois/Dr.Who seems pretty convinced AMD needs to implement HT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LOE

nope, HT efficiency is bound to core design, not to the overall core count
it's happening in the core, not across the whole CPU

thou it could work, at least as a concept, done across the whole cpu, but it would probably be too complicated - IMO in such a scenario a quad should have more efficient HT

it is quite obvious now when intel has integrated the MC and has a hyper transport like interconnect, that the amd bashing horde will catch the only thing amd doesn't have and use as an argument in the ridiculous thread hijacking thats happening all over the forum

---

A quad have less benefit than a dualcore due to amdahls law. Plus you have less pressure on cache and memory on the DC. And to compare QPI with Hypertransport is almost like comparing hypertransport with FSB...

You seem to like to think very macro oriented and basicly whine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LOE

it is very relative and too dependent on the workload, I agree that 4 cores will load the cache and the interconnect more than 2 cores, but thats only one of the things that affects HT performance

---

Another one is diminishing returns with the scaling of cores on software thats dependent on serial execution aswell.

Hence 2 cores will scale better than 4, 4 better than 8 and so on.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hlsLaw.svg.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Even i3 got HT :D

---

Never heard of i3, then again this doesnt change my mind about HT. It almost sounds like we'll have to see HT threads over New Section for the next 9 months:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

And saying you wouldnt need anything like i7/i5 etc is like saying you could run anything fine on a K6.

---

I didnt say you dont need anything like an i7/i5. Maybe you forgot, I almost had one my self.

Also I'd like to see a K6 running any recent game without issues:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Just as dumb as the slower but smoother agument.

---

Did you experience it your self to rightfully say so?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Also i5s purpose with ondie PCIe is a whole other thing than you think. We talk cheap boards and design. Smaller sizes. And the CPU will be cheap aswell. Tho i7 920 is already extremely cheap.

---

Yes, a relative cheap CPU. Then it needs special DDR3, new board which is only the price of the best boards from previous generation. Yeah, awesome:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

AMD will need HT and they gonna need it fast. You could end up with a dualcore i3 with HT whooping a deneb. Thats not gonna be fun. Nehalem got higher IPC than Yorkfield. Yorkfield got higher IPC than Deneb. Both Yorkfield and Nehalem outclocks Deneb. And Nehalem utterly destroys Yorkfield in performance not even to mention Deneb. This chip thats behind these 2 already is what gonna carry AMD to 2011. And on 45nm all the way.

---

I dont know what numbers you read but from my understanding all CPU's are pretty close at an average resolution of 1680x1050, Nehalem sometimes even being beaten by Kentsfield.

Also Nehalem doesnt out clock Deneb thus far, [sarcasm]unless I missed the handpicked super Nehalem from DrWho[/sarcasm]:rolleyes:

Only reason why AMD would need HT is servers, nothing else. Only thing that's slightly disappointing is its power consumption. However, I dont care about that stuff, if I'd care I shouldnt have a PC in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shintai

Hopefully AMD will have both more cores and HT in 2011 to stay afloat. Even Larrabee got HT like Power, Itanium, Sparc, Atom etc :rofl:
AMD is more or less the last one without HT, and they desperately needs it.

---

Ehm, no. What they need is a more efficient architecture. HT was usefull on dual cores, not on quad cores used in desktops for average usage.

Where people said IMC's were useless on desktops, I think HT is a lot worse.

Spoken about Atom, saw the new Neo CPU's:cool:

At one of the better pricing stores in my city, Phenom II has arrived and is priced at :

AMD Phenom II X4 920 $AUD439
AMD Phenom II X4 940 $AUD535

For comparison, the two closet Intel alternatives from the same store as priced at:

INTEL CORE 2 QUAD Q9400 $AUD419
INTEL CORE 2 QUAD Q9550 $AUD515

Actually I'll throw in the lowest i7 too, but obviously it comes with a platform cost penalty:

INTEL CORE i7 920 $AUD468

As the PhII's have just shown up, I would expect their prices will adjust downwards each week that passes.

On a side note Chad I always thought you were from Central Europe.

I've seen Aussie prices putting it lower than the respective C2Q models here though, but forgot the exact links.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Macadamia

On a side note Chad I always thought you were from Central Europe.

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Nope, never even set foot in Central Europe.(Unless Italy is regarded as Central Europe :D )

AMD even named a processor core after my city. :cheer:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Meh... Well, ain't HT getting a bit old now though?

I can imagine why it'sn on i7, it's designed for a whole other purpose then most of us use it now. But i5 is for desktop, HT barely does a significant thing, at least for gaming. Having a 4Ghz i7 or Deneb for gaming... Now dont tell me this difference is so significant you'd get an i7 over Deneb;)

---

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but just because a few games don't benefit from HT doesn't make the technology "a bit old;" especially because the overall benefit, when enabled outweighs the cons in a few games :rolleyes: As for gaming, no game ever utilizes a cpu at 100%, so games are not necessarily going to give you a true reflection of the raw processing power of any cpu. If one were building a gaming pc on a budget, then Deneb becomes a true competitor; but even there, C2Q offers a faster and more power efficient and stable platform.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Yes, a relative cheap CPU. Then it needs special DDR3, new board which is only the price of the best boards from previous generation. Yeah, awesome:rolleyes:

---

Well, you make me wonder if AM3 is an upgrade path for current AM2/+ users or not? :p: See? DDR3 is the future, and as usual more expensive than older tech. As for the cost of boards, all you need to do is go to AMD section, where a lot of members are complaining about the finicky boards/components. Sorry about your board and blown mosfets Ramm, but cheaper components always sell cheap. You and a few others have debated the quality of AMD boards enough to make this point moot.

Quote:

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I dont know what numbers you read but from my understanding all CPU's are pretty close at an average resolution of 1680x1050, Nehalem sometimes even being beaten by Kentsfield.

---

If those are the numbers you choose to concentrate on, then I have news for you - it's called gpu-bound, or gpu-limited. Throw in a second gpu and you'll see that seemingly close numbers disappear fast.

Quote:

---

Also Nehalem doesnt out clock Deneb thus far, [sarcasm]unless I missed the handpicked super Nehalem from DrWho[/sarcasm]:rolleyes:

---

Which did 5Ghz on air :p: No, that's the one thing Deneb has proven to be better at than Agena.

Quote:

---

Only reason why AMD would need HT is servers, nothing else. Only thing that's slightly disappointing is its power consumption. However, I dont care about that stuff, if I'd care I shouldnt have a PC in the first place.

---

Should I quote you on that?

Quote:

---

Ehm, no. What they need is a more efficient architecture. HT was usefull on dual cores, not on quad cores used in desktops for average usage.

---

I really don't understand your point; if you don't like HT, disable it. It doesn't impact performance if you do, and you still get all your 4 cores to play with. :shakes: You're making no sense at all, because nehalem without HT is still unbeatable; unless you want to argue the opposite, in which case you'd be contradicting yourself. Please take those green shades off. :yepp:

Why has this AMD Thread turned into a Intel Banter Thread yet again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zucker2k

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but just because a few games don't benefit from HT doesn't make the technology "a bit old;" especially because the overall benefit, when enabled outweighs the cons in a few games :rolleyes: As for gaming, no game ever utilizes a cpu at 100%, so games are not necessarily going to give you a true reflection of the raw processing power of any cpu. If one were building a gaming pc on a budget, then Deneb becomes a true competitor; but even there, C2Q offers a faster and more power efficient and stable platform.

---

I didnt mean the technology is getting old in such way, more as that using HT to back up arguments is getting old.

Like "Oh, AMD doesnt have HT, as long as they dont have it they're nowhere" which could also be translated to "Intel's succes is because of HT". In servers prolly, for desktop, no.

I know games do not demand full power from CPU's, but there's seriously only a few things for desktops that really do though, more aiming at media apps. For the rest, it doesnt really matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zucker2k

Well, you make me wonder if AM3 is an upgrade path for current AM2/+ users or not? :p: See? DDR3 is the future, and as usual more expensive than older tech. As for the cost of boards, all you need to do is go to AMD section, where a lot of members are complaining about the finicky boards/components. Sorry about your board and blown mosfets Ramm, but cheaper components always sell cheap. You and a few others have debated the quality of AMD boards enough to make this point moot.

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My point was more that if you owned say a 775/DDR3 combo now, you would still need new DDR3. Of course DDR3 is the future, sooner than later Ill have it my self. Although at some point I start to dislike all the moves for RAM, it's simply technology which grows, just like sockets etc.

And indeed, quality from AMD motherboards is shocking to say the least. I hope having better cooling on MOSFETs is going to save me from that hell when Deneb arrives. There's however a few also relative cheap boards for AMD, which are SB600 though, which have good quality stuff.

The thing I was aiming at is that even the cheapest motherboards for i7 are still like the same price as the top notch 775 boards. And those top notch 775 boards are a lot better regarding quality than the cheapest i7 boards.

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

If those are the numbers you choose to concentrate on, then I have news for you - it's called gpu-bound, or gpu-limited. Throw in a second gpu and you'll see that seemingly close numbers disappear fast.

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I know, they said so in the review as well (still wondering why there was only a GTX216). However, by adding more/better card(s) would only show Deneb beating Agena very soon and pushing out incredible numbers. Probably it would be beaten by Nehalem, if not then Yorkfield and/or Kentsfield would pick it up anyway, but what does 300fps vs 250fps tell me? I should waste about 1K on new hardware for that extra 50fps? Yes, and I never denied this, Nehalem is a nice thing, but at some point a line has to be drawn. And then if someone jumps up and down screaming Nehalem is that much better Im seriously wondering what the point is of that.

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

Which did 5Ghz on air :p: No, that's the one thing Deneb has proven to be better at than Agena.

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5Ghz on air, no LN2 results?:( Meh, although 5Ghz on air is nice though.

As Ive said before, if only Deneb brought better clocks, leaving IPC/DDR3 increases out of it, it still would be a massive gain for AMD. OC'ers would be more likely to get a Phenom II CPU, tweaking and messing with it and when they're done enjoy it. Whether you've a 4Ghz Nehalem, Yorkfield or Deneb, I seriously doubt if you're going to notice anything from that apart from your wallet.

Quite some people who actually do almost nothing with PC's who are looking to get one wont see all the negativism around AMD and are more likely to get one again.

And as you said, compared to Agena, Deneb is going to be awesome.

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

Should I quote you on that?

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Sure, I dont see much wrong with it. I think the benefits from HT are due to the lack of efficient core connections/communication, since adding more cores seem to be the new hype for Intel and AMD the true benefit from HT will only become less. Over a few years they'll either hype about Mhz or IPC again or maybe do something about efficiency from the connections/communication among cores.

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Originally Posted by Zucker2k

I really don't understand your point; if you don't like HT, disable it. It doesn't impact performance if you do, and you still get all your 4 cores to play with. :shakes: You're making no sense at all, because nehalem without HT is still unbeatable; unless you want to argue the opposite, in which case you'd be contradicting yourself. Please take those green shades off. :yepp:

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I dont hate HT. If I had it I would use it. mWhat I was saying, quite clear I think, is that HT is a useless argument where Intel's succes and/or AMD's drawbacks come from.

If you had an architecture which has a good IPC, good clocks and efficient communication with the other cores and RAM, HT wouldnt be needed and wouldnt show an advantage.

That's how I see it though, not a fact;):p:

PS Leave those immature 'green blabla' out of posts man, doesnt do you much good, Im used to it now and only makes me ROFL instead;)

I think price discussion is over