QFT!! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by sheriff_deadeye
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QFT!! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by sheriff_deadeye
I stand by my method of helping people here so no problem (well, other than the little war with RRR). I challenge anyone to do a search of my posts and ten tell me I push any SINGLE water-cooling vendor ;) I can say this because I know what you will find. I normally list at least two to three makes (DD,EK, and then one of the others such as Swiftek or Koolance as of late). I do not personally recommend Dtek as I have none of their products but I do tell people that the Fusions are some of the most popular ones so they might take that into consideration. I recommend BI, TC, and Feser rads although I have clearly been the leader in questioning where TC is at the moment and about their future prospects.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
We are BLESSED to have so many kick arse vendors to choose from with new ones coming onto the market (Feser, Bitspower to name a couple) and with the older ones really pushing the envelope (Ben at MM is just going insane with his cases . . . and Vincent at BP and Mario at Feser are tearing it up in the hizzle ma nizzles). If anything we should all be pulling together as they are pretty exciting times and we should be glad to have such a fun hobby to distract us from the rest of the world which is full of crap at the moment.
Hell, I am currently on another forum in the middle of fights with Republicans on one side and Democrats on the other and libertarian me in the middle getting fragged ;)
We should all practice this mantra . . ."There is no right . . .only what is right for you" . . .I too often forget this and do not take into account things like limited means or using what one has . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by sheriff_deadeye
^^^ *sigh* I miss the old Speak Freely days... ;)
I agree, to me it's more about °C per $ spent than anything. All I know is my "ghetto" watercooler setup absolutely destroys my old air cooler. I have less in my watercooling setup than most people do in their TRUE heatsinks + fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
I'n not the typical XS'er, I'm more budget minded than throw every $ at it for max °C drops. It has to be a serious gain for me to even consider it. With that said, i tend to err towards the cheap side when I make a recommendation to a 1st time watercooler. I've seen WAY too many people run off after dumping hundreds into a setup that is too complicated for them, then it not perform the way they hoped it would.
It's sad to hear of someone bailing from XS for the reasons stated in the quoted PM. But, fwiw from a noobiest-of-noobs perspective, I think this forum is still the best there is (3DGuru is pretty awesome too). Personally, I'm amazed at the degree of courtesy I've been shown, even after posting something that I realized (too late... sigh) was completely idiotic. It's positively amazing how much I've learned here in the past 6 months. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I haven't noticed the conflict on certain threads lately. But, as far as the ongoing health of the forum goes, I've also noticed an incredible amount of self-examinatio by a lot of forum members, including the guys that I really look up to. And that's hugely encouraging.
This forum rocks and, imo, will continue to do so because so many peeps genuinely care about it.
Excellent thread Dave.
edit: "self examination" didn't come out right - I meant not so much people examining themselves (tho it's part of it), but more an examination of the forum itself to ensure it meets certain standards.
aww...wtf, now why did they go and do that!?!?! now that makes me mad (i've been busy with school lately so i havent really had time to get on much, so im kind of out of the loop on the whole situation:()Quote:
Originally Posted by Omastar
come on guys, grow up, the point of this forum is to help one another out to the best of your ability. If someone comes in here asking for help and advise mentor them and do what you can to teach them what you know so they will get the information they need and maybe they will in turn be able to help someone else out later on down the road.
Well its not really like that. Marci got a new job. Cathar had a accident on the bike and was busy with that.. and Maxx got himself some woman. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by p8ntslinger676
where do you get women?Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] riptide
Well in Riptide's case the local flock.....................
Thought you got a red one ??? :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
I get them shipped in from Ohio...Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
:fight:Quote:
Originally Posted by fart_plume
i told you it was too easy today, and i had a low resistance to easy:rofl:
Thats West 'By Gawd' Virginia?
i dont run my mouth on any company unless i catch them slipping.
And believe me when i go off on a post on that company, i HAVE FULL ON PROOF!
But dave, you also need to list that a company if they want to promote on this site, needs to have full data backed on ANY statement they say. Dont make us bring another Koolance vs HWLabs incident. Cuz i will bring one if i catch a company slipping and lying to us.
R3 knows what company i currently have my eye on as well. I almost have enough proof to lay a can of whoopass on them as well.
Lying vendors shouldnt even be on this forum, so if we run them off, GOOD.
I haven't been on XS for that long myself, and although I have noticed a recent increase in the amount of flame wars and overall BS, I have to say it's still considerably less than any other forum I've ever frequented. My biggest gripe is with the fact that when I ask for help and information the plethora of uninformative one sentence answers I have to read through is quite a nuisance. Although quite often if I repeat my question I will finally get a real answer out of someone(most of the time in the end its the same group of people that gives me a good answer I can use). If I wanted to get a mindless fact less 'just buy this part because I say you should' answer I would go to Worst Buy or Microcenter and ask their employees :rolleyes:
I've learned to take every thing said here with a grain of salt as I do in the rest of my life. And when in doubt I demand evidence. There are people I've come to trust and just as equally posters I've learned are untrustworthy. I don't see any use in arguing to an excessive extent over what's right and wrong, but if you insist on it please give me the common courtesy either prove it or provide fact to prove me wrong. I understand that everyone is of different ages and race and upbringings, but I don't think the fact that there is a mix of both truthful and kind people here along with the dishonest rude, just as in real life can be denied. After all this forum is part of our lives so I doubt that can ever fully change (Unless maybe this becomes a cult where we're all supposed to drink the Pentosin Koolaid :p:).
I've learned a ton from this forum and give whatever back that I can. All I can say is I hope the forum and especially the water cooling section stays up and active so I can get my daily fix on geek stuff :D If there's ever anything I can do to help out on the forums in any way, shape, or form let me know. The water cooling section especially has given me more help in the past year than anything, and I'd love to be able to give something back. Other than that all I can do is continue learning and sharing my experiences with everyone as I've done up to this point. :up:
If I've said anything offensive or off topic I apologize but after reading the rest of this forum I had to interject my feelings. After all I do consider this a home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
I have to agree with you Andy. NaeKuh, it may just be the way you put your thoughts into text, but is this the same manner in which you conduct yourself in your daily business environment? I am guilty of the same a while back, I admit. The server outage did me a lot of good.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
When a vendor/manufacturer comes here to represent their brand/store they come with business in mind. Whether they come to show a soon to be released product or to deal with issues, they are representing a business. The least we can do is treat them with respect, simply point out the issues we (one or many XS users) have encountered and let them digest the situation. They are the one's running the business, we are their customers. I do not know of a single company that would listen to a customer or a feedback group that acts in the manner I have seen in recently. I don't care if we completely disagree with their business practices or not, you have to show them common decency and respect and if you can't...stay out of the thread. The only thing you do by jumping down their throat and making a big to do is show your true colors, and lose a lot of respect for XS from the company you are trying to deal with and many of the members here. Afterall, you being a member here, you are representing XS to that company.
All in all, I want to see more vendors/manufacturers here and participating in the community. We have far to many knowledgable, intelligent and enthusiastic people here willing to stand along side the vendors/manufacturers and further the LC industry. If we keep pushing them out by being ignorant and rude when they show up...they won't come back nor listen to our suggestions in the future.
Just my $0.02...
I agree with CD, I think alot of the problems have occurred because folks need to "Do something (that does NOT mean posting in this forum)". the old days of the forum used to be filled with people testing stuff and fabricating custom projects. Back in those days folks were too busy with a copper slab on thier drill presses or soldering on a heatercore, you just didn't get here without some pain and time invested in building stuff, it was a necessity. With watercooling going more mainstream, water cooling has made fabrication optional, you can have a fully functional water cooling system out of the box with 100% bolt on parts. No need to build and no need to test or tinker, it works. So I think part of it is just plain boredom, they don't share or contribute anything to the forum but their strong personality and business relationship opinions. I'd suggest taking the mix of parts and try and see if you can make them better, tinkering is always a means to make something even better and there is no one magic bullet or perfect combination for everyones budget or experience. We need more folks "Trying" or "Building":hammer: wierd ideas and, that's where the fun is at!! And even if we're not building parts from scratch, there's still tons to do with combinations of parts and sharing what you've learned.
I also think in general the "feel" here has been defensive and destructive.:poke: If you make folks feel uncomfortable or always find yourself in the middle of irritation, chances are you are being "Destructive" to the thread. If you are not posting something with 100% intent to help posotively encourage and help the person posting, you've failed at being constructive and you are being selfish. You shouldn't find yourself in the middle of conflict on every other thread or chances are, something is wrong. Take ownership of your actions and seek to be constructive.
I also think people are just sick of all the SPAM. AKA brand loyalty and fanboism, whatever you know what it is. Opinions without context as to why you feel the way you do is no different than your most annoying pop up banner ad. Opinions without context are SPAM!!:spam:
That's not to say we shouldn't have fun. If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:
Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:
Beers are on me!..:D
So he left because people have an attitude when they post? Well i dont know if thats against the rules or not but generally thats the same attitude in any of the forums, people are who they are your not gona be able to change the way people talk because your thin skinned. Ive seen the fanboism but in the liquid cooling section i really dont think its that bad, ive gotten more valuable information out of this sub section then any of the others, people dont get excited and recommend EK blocks because they are fanboys, they recommend them because they are the best, plain and simple. Getting pissy because for the past 6 months every one is recommending EK waterblocks and giving an attitude over the way other companys poorly manufacture their products isnt fanboism, its the truth, plain and simple. You want the cold hard truth about how to build a awesome watercooling system, you come to the XS water cooling forum, you want to post how awesome your brand new 100 dollar koolance kit is, with the rotting compression fittings and the mixed matched metals, and have everyone tell you how uber cool it is, you go the IGN forums where they ban people on the spot for posting sny remarks against their sponsors.
Sorry thats just the way i feel, ive never had anyone in this liquid cooling section have an attitude that was out of line or hurt my feelings.
Martinm210 that has too be the best post in the whole thread. Myself I can't let any product stay stock, I have to tinker with it till either it works like i think it should or I kill it beyond repair, it's just my nature....................
I still think if a vendor puts out junk, they should be called out on it. Most of the time they know what they are doing when they "slip", they just choose to soak up profits.
On what tests?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
oh hell im not gona start digging up all the test threads but people do them all the time, and EK is renound for quality and customer satisfaction and support, just ask the people who own them. I dont know how harsh people were getting with this guy who left the forum over it but i know people are rough around the edges on this forum in general, and it doesnt bother me in the slightest, its my favorite kind of atmosphere, and this wc section has always had valuable feedback and information and i still consider it the best for anyone looking for information on how to build their system. But you cant just expect to make one post and know everything you have to do research on your own and read what people are discussing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
There are ways to do things. Do it in a civilized manner and not "This frigging company sucks donkey di*cks!"..Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Like the movie Roadhouse, "There's times to be nice and times not to be nice"
You find a POS product like those steel Koolance fittings show it, document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..
Get my point.. civil..
Now I know your full of piss and vinegar and still young enough that the testosterone rules so whe you have that overwhelming urge to totally bas someone, PM me and do it ok?:up:
:up:Excellent post.. I'll take a old fashioned Miller..Ice cold please..:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
It has gotten bad lately, trust me on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
I wouldn't have typed till my fingers fell off if things were fine here.
Yes, but as I said to Naekuh, with tact and facts to prove your position.Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
Andy and Martin :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
However, I believe NaeKuh will deliver, his metaphorical Can of Whoop ass, in a respectful manner, with facts, and without emotions and tears.
Well you know me, no matter how bad things get i always love a good argument so i probably wouldnt have even noticed lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Dtek people recommend Dtek, EK recommend EK, etc etc . . .does not mean they are the best ;) Just means they think it is best. Come on . . .have I ever said Danger Den products are the absolute best? No. I say they are up there in the upper level . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
I agree, but there is civil way to present it so the vendor/manufacturer listens to your feedback. As I said in my post, if we give respect and common courtesy we will recieve it back and will probably see more of them in the future. Now, would you deal with a customer that was a constant pain to deal with? Eventually, you'll give them the cold shoulder.Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
There are a few occasional fanboys, and your gona get that practically everywhere, but most of the people that post here are seasoned water coolers and they recommend certain stuff based on results, not rumors or because they own it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis
Respect and common courtesy is a requirement of business to business oriented practice, generally you wont get that from a consumer who just had one of his products from said manufacturer fail on him only to find out the warranty doesnt cover it. You cant expect people to always act in a civilized manner when you are getting feedback on your product, but no matter how it is said in words the feedback is still valuable. If a marketing rep is reading a thread where people are screaming and cursing that the aluminum fittings they just bought are corroding, obviously its somthing you have to correct. If you want to stay in business you have to deal with all manner of customers, not just the friendly ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Edit: not that im saying respect and common courtesy is a bad thing, but you cant abandon a forum because people have extremely negative point of views on what you sell, you have to work to correct the issue, no matter how much of a beating you take, thats the way you survive in business.
Here Here ! Well said ! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
Count on me to be another of the "sick souls" that would be here reading the engineering data right along side of you. :D
Actually Spawne, we do expect it here. Whats more we DEMAND civilised manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
i meant for posts that are uncivilized but still with in the confines of the rules ;) theres no rules against angry posts calling products crap right?Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] riptide
We're splitting hairs... but ya I think we agree.
I'll say it again. No one has any need to defend reasons behind equipment choices, whether they are based strictly on scientific data, emotional reasons or just simply personsal preferences.
Honestly, anybody's choice of equipment isn't anyone else's damn business, and let's keep it that way.
Accusations of the "fanboy" nature are derogatory and demeaning. They debase the fundamental notion of individual choice.
When someone dislikes a particular set of brands, its also individual choice, and not anyone else's damn business. No one should be forced to fall in love with all manufacturers, and each consumer has every damn right to speak out for and against individual products, collective sets of products or a whole particular brand. Without infringing on anyone else's individual rights and liberties, its a free and open expression of opinion.
Next, its just fine for anyone to establish that the individual has X number of years of experience, or that has an engineering profession, or that the person has XYZ doctoral degree, or anything of that nature. The line is crossed when that individual insinuates immediate superiority over others when it comes to water cooling. Like I always say, any nitwit bumbling fidiot can pick up water cooling in an afternoon with some reading. This is not brain surgery. We're not building a bridge to the moon. Therefore, anyone in XS can have a valid opinion, and there is nobody here that commands full and immediate subjugation. Honestly, individuals of this elk like to flatter themselves a little too much. I'll leave it at that before I ruffle too many feathers.
No need to be uncivilized at all. All points can be made without saying the owner of X company is the illegitimate offspring of 2 manic depressive, psychotic Chimpanzees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32
Best example I can think of is Naekuh's bringing up that point on the steel koolance fittings. That's the kind of info needed here. That and comments on new parts and then add in Joe Blow showing off his new rig as this is a hobby and we are supposed to have some fun with it.
Pretty well said but if you toss an aluminum Koolance radiator in your loop I can understand someone explaining the effects of Galvanic reaction to you(sic) That to me, if it's said civilly, is constructive criticism and a positive thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Ok,
first things first, MM, this has to be the best quote I have ever read:
document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..
I may put that in my sig. That made my day and really made me laugh hard.
Ok, so back on point. I joined this forum sometime around the first of the year. I started with a Swiftech H2O Compact kit that I got off of Ebay. Thought the idea was cool, so I got it. I ended up breaking a barb on the Apogee Drive and that started my journey to the system I have now. I like this forum because there are a lot of helpful (although colorful sometimes) people here and for the most part, supportive. When I asked about what to do with my Apogee Drive, Waterlogged gave me a suggestion of using a Petra top or something similiar. If he hadn't told me that I would have bought a new pump and thrown that one away. It's moments like that that make me like this forum. Now I like to build stuff and I agree with Martin, there are a lot of parts that you can get off the shelf and slap together, take a picture and viola, you have a "Million Dollar PC". But like Martin, I think the real good, juicy stuff comes from when people make it themselves or "Mod" something like a case. Since I joined I have made or attempted to make 3 cases, some good, some bad. I have modded 3 more cases, again some good and some bad. That's just me, I can't just sit around looking at something without trying to improve it. To me this forum, Xtremesystems, is about taking your passion to the xtreme. It might be that you want the "bling" "bling" and you build you system with lights and smoke and maybe even a Volcano Res made by Cyber :up:. Or you might be the guy/girl that wants to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your chip and so getting an extra 100mhz or better timings from your ram is worth changing your blocks or going with a TC rad. You could be that person that wants the absolute best bang for your buck, remember the Celeron 300a, yeah baby, that was a chip. My point is that "Xtremesystem" has a different meaning for everyone and therefore when someone asks a question they are probably going to get various answers based on personal opinions based on that persons preferences to what "Xtreme" means. How many times have we seen the question "What's the best block out there?". Are you serious? That's like asking "What's the best movie of all time is?". Those questions are just asking for it in my opinion, however, that doesn't mean we can't just simply say "What is your goal New Guy?" Do you want the best performance with unlimited money? Do you want the best bang for you buck? You get my point? It's ok to raz someone as long as you are also being helpful and doing it in a playful and respectful way. On the flip side, if you say something stupid or ask something stupid, don't go crying to mommy when someone slaps you, :D. We are all big boys and girls, some bigger than others, :D, and we should be able to take a little razzing here and there. I never got upset with folks for questioning my morality or ethics about whether to RMA something when we broke it and I said sure. Why? Because I do not personally know anyone here. Sure, I might speak with you, PM you, but until we sit down to dinner, we don't know each other, just that simple and so someone questioning my integrity just makes me laugh.
Now as far as people being a fanboy of a product or a company, who cares? We all know R3 loves Mountain Mods and Sidewinders, it doesn't make him a bad person just because he hawks them like they are the second coming, take it with a grain of salt. I think Koolance compression fitting are the best bang for the buck and tell people that, am I evil? I don't think so. If you come here and ask a question, i.e. "What's the best block?", R3 is not going to be the only person to sell you on a block, plenty folks going to try and sell you D-Tek or DD. It doesn't make any of them evil for doing it. But if you ask that question and then go and buy a product without spending sometime researching it and then you do not like it, tough. This forum should not be here to make decisions for people, just suggest some products that might be good for their situation. I was looking for a PSU awhile back and after my head felt like it was going to explode from all the reviews I had read, I asked for recommendations based on what I was looking for. I got a lot answers including some from JohnnyGuru. I took all that info, put it in a pot, stirred it, baked it on 375 degrees for an hour and then made a decision. In the end it was my decision and not someone else's and therefore I owned that, good or bad. So I say "Take some responsibility for your decisions or lack of" and do not expect that others should make them for you.
Now, can we get back to selling EK Supreme with TC Rads all bought from Petra's please. :D
Thank you and have a good night,
Where's my Ban Hammer?:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
I have no issue with someone saying 'EK Blocks Rock"..
I have an issue with someone saying "If you don't buy EK blocks your a moron"
Also no issues with someone saying that Ben from Mountain Mods or the guys at Petra's are excellent or Sidewinders, or Performance PC's,etc are good to deal with.
It's not the positive I'm concerned with but the negative.
You buy a part that was broken at any of these places and they tell you to pound sand on an RMA then you have a right to be pissed but be pissed civilly ok?
There was a guy here complaining about one company so we did some research. He never bought from them and guess what?
He worked for their competitor. Sum Biatrch huh? Dirth pool my friend and that pissed me off. He's history and I mean on an intergalactic vacation that will last light years!
Honesty,integrity, and posts made in friendship will take care of all.
Treat each other with respect and things will improve and improve fast.
I like that bit. At the risk of something (i'm not suite sure what lol); i think some people are just out to please the other members here. To suck up, to fit in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utnorris
Why, you ask?
Because i was like that to start with. I wanted to get parts that others here were using, not beause i needed them or they were best for me, but because i felt like "i i have this, i'll fit in and be accepted".
It's important that each member and newbie makes informed decisions, but we're not here to tell you what you want or like. We should give advice based on the criteria given to us (most of the time a budget). I can't stand it when someone (without having done any research) asks us to tell them what to buy. It makes me want to yell "You gotta get what you want. Only then will you be happy". I reckon that's half the fun of building a wc system; doing hours of research and getting exactly what you want, with some stuff you don't actually need. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by twwen2
That's just blooming ridiculous. I never follow equipment trends, especially in XS. I don't even agree with the choices of those whom I call friends, and i'm certainly not going to blindly emulate them. Naekuh and RRR love their EK Supreme. You can't get me to buy one, even if you were to tie me up and subject me to Vietcong torture.
I caused a whole ruckus with YL fans, and I got the "I am Cathar and I endorse them.. " My attitude was.."yeah you like them, and 95 out of 100 people in XS like them, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still cheap Chinese crap.. and Cathar who?"
His post wasn't about you and didn't mention your name once. :rolleyes: Why did you answer like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
BTW The bolded part... was it necessary? This is the kind of thing this whole thread is about.
Aha, i didn't have you in mind my friend. I know very well you don't follow the trends, you make that very clear very often ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
However, just because you aren't like what i described doesn't mean there aren't those people out there. Just to clarify; i don't think everyone who asks for advice is trying to fit in or follow a trend. Not at all. I'm just saying that there are some people like that, because i was like that once.
And what was that thing about cathar for? I reckon if someone deliberately gave advice contrary to what someone like Martin210 would say, then i bet people would get worked up. I'd be the first. We respect the experts and their opinions because of the effort they put into this community. :)
To add onto that, if you don't have anything that you can contribute to the thread and have proof to back it up, don't say anything at all. (Unless it's an opinion, which can never be backed up by facts.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool speaks because he has to say something" - Plato
i think the term fanboi denotes too much meaning for some people... (meaning the person is blind to everything else besides said product)... and should not be used often... i prefer/he prefers would be the better term/statement to use.
Just an example: RRR prefers this and that, but is also open to other opinions/suggestions (and will probably buy said other opinion/product and add it to his collection)
He is entitled to his opinion, and when you get to know his attitude/behavior, you either let it slide or let it get to you. Of course its better to let it slide.
this is an open forum, and some youngsters do learn from the examples we set. so keep things civil...
This is XtremeSystems Liquid Cooling, I came here to learn and teach what i learn. Patience and Common Sense being foremost.
I am sorry if the guy who PMed didn't stay or have the patience to wade through the recent BS going on around here, but there are always more people to teach and advice each day.
*sometimes typing in text doesn't clearly explain what we want to explain. people just need to keep an open mind on such topics. mods and members alike.
Damn, I can't believe I have only just found this thread. It has only been in the past 2weeks that I too have wanted to do something similar. Now I haven't been at XS for long (3 and a 1/2 years lurking plus time as a member) compared to some, but it doesn't take much to see that the watercooling section has taken a turn for the worse and been deteriorating slowly but surely for a good 3 months (maybe less maybe more, that is just the time I began to REALLY notice things heading south). All I can say is that some serious growing up needs to be done by the respective offenders and that I am glad that this issue has been brought to light. Hopefully the WC section can become what it once was...
Mods, I want to thankyou for your on going service/commitment to the XS community. I know it can't be easy but you guys persevere nonetheless, I'm sure this problem (now out in the open more than ever) will be no different. You guys are truely what keeps XS tick tocking away (and some). :) </end suck up> :p:
I only hope that this issue can be overcome and any disagreements between individuals be set straight.
Cheers to XS and all those whom play a constructive part, whether that be in the running, maintenance or contribution to discussion and content on the site.
Thankyou.
We are all guilty of promoting a product at some point, including DB, yes DB you too. Remember when the Swiftech GTZ was announced, there was a lot folks ready to dump their current block for the GTZ. Then the tests were done and it looked as though it was no better than the D-Tek Fuzion V2. Now when someone asks which block to get, the GTZ comes up. This is by people who don't even own it. That doesn't make them fanboi's, it just means they are sheep following the herd. To me you shouldn't recommend something you personally haven't tried even if you can point to some review to back up your claim. Given enough time I am sure I could find where someone pissed on their chip and it cooled it, doesn't mean I would recommend it. I only recomend the products I either own currently or have owned and then I qualify it with a big "IMHO" quote. There are no right parts when doing water cooling or even building a computer, just recommendations. This is because what may work for one person doesn't mean it will work for another at giving them their desired results. We all have goals when we build a new system or modify an existing one and therefore there are no bad ideas. Unless you have tried doing exactly what someone is trying for the same reasons you really cannot say without a doubt what will or will not work. This of course is just my opinion.
I understand that vendors failing to live up to their side should be brought to light in a courteous manner but sometimes that isn't an option.
I've had a few run-ins myself where the polite and tactful approach got me a "sorry you are SOL" email in return. Only after I smeared their name across every forum I cared to post it on, did they finally honor their warranty and make good on their product. We all know of companies skimming on product quality knowingly only to increase their bottom line. To me, these types of companies don't deserve the tactful approach.
i am sure each and everyone of us has encountered these kind of persons before but i don't make it a point to correct each and everyone of them. as it would be a waste of my time...Quote:
When a person has to go to every thread where their preferred product is not the one being spoken of in a good light and inject <insert favored product name here> FTW . . . then that is Fan Boism. That includes using other FTW substitutes but still basically being a broken record . . .
i am also sure that you have encountered these kind of persons in your modding world, those that vehemently prefer this design over what you're planning. but you don't really have to listen to them, cause they ain't the one building said project.
much like RRR, he prefers this product over that, but in the end he ain't the one building the member's project, in the end its the member who gets to decide which product he will buy and add to his ongoing project, he don't really have to listen to RRR's preference (unless of course RRR finances said project, hehehe)...
i would like to suggest to you guys with hot heads and bruised egos to take a few days/weeks break from posting once in a while to cool off, unwind and relax... take a step back and re evaluate yourselves...as its not really mandatory to post in XS once or several times a day just to build up post count...
I agree very much. If they irritate you so much and you know they can push your buttons the good ol ignore list works wonders. Plus it saves the scroll wheel. So save a dying scroll wheel today and use the ignore options. It adds years! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoffey
Thread cleaned. :rolleyes:
In this scenario you described, I don't have a problem with your second course of action. You tried civil and upfront approach, that didn't work, so you tried another method. I am almost certain we are on the same page here. Try the honest and civil approach...if that doesn't work, raise the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by gillbot
That's too bad because I was about to make a very valid point about maturity using some of those posts. Oh well. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashraf
do you guys seriously think i care what a vendor says or does (do you think nikhsub1 even cares?)
You guys forget i probably dumped more then 4 figures in each h2o company right now?
I think that itself entitles me to express my own opinions on that product.
If a vendor black lists me, do you honestly think i cant go somewhere else to get my own stuff? I have a lot of friends who own mills that could pop out whatever i wanted in a matter of weeks.
Have you guys forgotten next to our legend moders, i probably hold the largest custom eq collection on this forum.
Maturity, Why are we protecting the people we are buying stuff from? Isnt there obligation to listen to us and meet our requests?
The fanboism in picking parts i agree, but the vendor quarrls?
Ash can i remind you a vendor said i was wrong for 5 months only to be proved later on that HE was wrong instead? IS THIS FAIR?
:down:
Am i ever not social or not nice? Even my Koolance warning thread, did i not make a clear and to the point issue? What if i kept this though emails and PM's. Did you count how many other people realized this problem AFTER i posted?Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnee
Ash you seriously telling me not to speak to ANY Vendors on the open forum anymore? I only talk to them on 2 situations.
1. Awesome product giving them upgrade possibilities or compliements on such a fine production piece.
2. Lay down a can of whoop ass cuz they shin'd to noobies and i dont really like that.
that gif i posted was gold and you know it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashraf
I'm sure you don't want to hear my opinion, but I'll state it anyway. In my opinion, Naekuh is absolutely correct. It is incumbent on the manufacturers to please their customers, and not the other way around. At the end of the day, the only people who are hurt by poor customer relations are the manufacturers and retailers themselves. They choose to ignore their major customers at their own peril.
At the risk of be treated as a sheep, I agree with IanY. After all, what they seek in the end is our money ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
This is Sad, Just Sad, Everyone need to go back to the beginning of thread and reread Dave's op post. With as many times as Ashraf has had to come in here and clean this thread you'd think you were in SF. Think before you post people.
okey no i agree with you guys.
There is a difference between going OMFG vendor X is a Lying SOB that robbed my money.
vs.
Vendor X has a flaw in there product, and i would like to bring it to people's attention.
I like to applogize if i did the first situation, but i believe the second situation should always be at our disposal expecially if you own the product. :T
Option two is always the best. If we castrate the makers of our products from being able to talk with us then they will not be able to give the needed constructive criticism needed to have the parts we need or want. Having a good relationship with the vendors and manufacturers is always a plus. They want to make more money....Show them how! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
I think you're spot on:yepp:. We all want to hear when something goes wrong or quality of parts just isn't meeting our expectations, this is a great place to do that sort of thing. What we don't want is someone that has some sort of business partnership bashing competitors for personal gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Quality control and customer service are two areas that are really difficult if not impossible to include in any sort of review. Without the ability to share personal experiences in these two areas, we'd never really know how they are unless it happend to us individually.
I think it's good stuff as long as all the details are included to tell the whole story...and I think we've been doing pretty well with that.
Sorry I was slow in my response to you NaeKuh. I am not saying that you have not been civil, social or nice. What spawned my response in the first place was seeing the lambasting other vendors have recieved and the "can of whoop ass" reference.
Gillbot and I came to the same conclusion, some vendors/manufacturers recieve are feedback when we approach them in a civil and respectful manner...others need some mud on their face before they will listen. But we cannot assume that all vendors/manufacturers need the mud thrown at them in order to recieve our feedback. We have to try to respectful and civilized route before resorting to other means of getting the point across and the right information in front of them. This is the same way I operate in day to day business. Sometimes you have to resort to other means for a company to take care of you as a customer, others appreciate your business enough to deal with you in the respectful manner. Again, we have to take the high road first each time we need to point out issues.
I'm not trying to single you out here NaeKuh, you just presented an example of the point I was trying to make. My apologies for using your statement as a means to make my point, but it was an ideal example.
I've been busy this week so I missed this thread. I do think some of us have taken brand loyalty to far and I just don't notice it any more.
If NaeKuh had not posted the Koolance thread I'd never would have checked my plugs for rust & they would still be doing damage to my systemsQuote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
AND the fact that the fittings by Koolance that had the steel plugs in my systems were suggested to me as an issue solver that I had asked about on a thread about said issue, by a well known & long time "XS" member ( don't want to drop names here )
That is why we should post when a Vendor does not come clean with shoddy W/C'in products & out right lies about materials used to make the W/C'in parts .
.. I'm not upset at said member I'm upset at Koolance ,
but I've moved on to BETTER Vendors & now am one HAPPY Camper with what I've got ( if I can't get it then I mod/make it )
do it in a civilize, non humiliating, non threatening, non flame baiting, non trolling, non too offensive manner(use common sense), then i am hopeful/sure we won't have problems arising...Quote:
That is why we should post when a Vendor does not come clean with shoddy W/C'in products & out right lies about materials used to make the W/C'in parts .
.. I'm not upset at said member I'm upset at Koolance ,
this is all the mods ask. i am sure we can all come to terms in a peaceful non provoking manner.
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
just hold back the urge for flaming and consult with the manufacturer or reseller before starting a thread
I agree with the original post. At the same time I would also like to thank those who actually do stuff and share their findings, helping people like me make informed decisions. I won't mention names because of those I would forget to mention, but they are the ones that make me glad I joined this forum.
LOL it's so funny seeing some of the egos from this subforum "seeing the light" in this thread... :rofl:
its a normal behavioral pattern, seeing that you're wrong and that you wish to make amends is good.
now, not admitting you're wrong and you still continue doing wrong, now thats just thick-headedness or wounded ego talking...
I got a higher paying job offered to me when I needed it the most that also now incorporates my original love - sound engineering... Cathar fell in love with motorbikes n' race tracks n' petrol... dunno what happened to Maxx... s'just life gets in the way and some folks have to move on, others choose to move on. No-one forced us out / scared us off / pi**ed us off to the point we couldn't be arsed anymore... Some of us linger when we've nothing else to do ;)Quote:
You guys ran off Marci, Cathar, and MaxxRacer from this forum
Gaaahh seriously can people just relax and back the hell down from their I AM BETTER THAN YOU tower. Seriously there seems to be 3 factions in the liquid cooling forum. You have the Texans, Anti-RRR guys and then people like me who don't give a hoot [the majority]. There seems to be this constant thread slapping in a thread every time I visit this place. It's stupid. No one cares who you are or what you do with your money that you earned through hard work. If RRR wants to buy 40 TCs, let him. If some dude doesn't like MM let them. If someone uses TT blocks because they already had them and can't afford to upgrade atm, let them.
We make suggestions and the guys that have been doing this for years and have say 5 pumps etc are very helpful. However it seems that due to previous throat slicing that these fellas are less willing to help due to flamming or have resorted to flamming people who are trying to push a stupid idea [metal mixing etc]. If you think it's stupid, DON'T POST. That's what I do.
It has come to someone being banned for reasons I do not know and then some people start slapping each other and the mods for the action. Very few people do get banned in XS so unless you have been talking to banned person or the mods, then you don't know what happened. Hopefully they will return to XS after their ban and won't do whatever happened again. Don't forget you can get banned from accumulating too many infraction points from minor things too.
EDIT : Due to another thread being closed, I will say it here. This is XS, not fricken high school. There is more drama on XS than I ever had in school. Most of you are older [and wiser] than me so com'on why are you making me say the obvious.
There is more than meets the eye here and since I beleive in honesty this thread by IanY that I just closed and moved to dead threads is all because RRR had his access pulled to the WC section 2 hours ago by one of the admin.
I don't know the details yet but this has been coming for a long time.
IanY's decision to leave was based on what happenned to RRR, it had not one thing to do with him but he chose to make it so.
Pure drama for lack of a better description.
He told me weeks ago that if RRR was banned that "he and a small group would be leaving" So be it,that is his choice.
Have a nice life but no dramatics.
OMG MARCI!!!!
WE missed ya!!!
Oh! Marci!
Welcome back!
Thanks for letting us know what happened MM, I can tell you it's much appreciated. Good for the forum I say, the less drama the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Well I for one don't want to see anyone being run off or leaving XS. However it appears threads like this had minimal impact and obviously bans, friendly warnings in posts, infraction points etc doesn't seem to do much to stop the flames so I say just close the entire Liquid Cooling forum. End of story, move along fellas. If it continues it will happen. Speak freely died.
Don't be silly momo!Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
You're over-stressed from studying for exams.
Take a break bro ;)
It's Ludicrous to say the least! R3 is an asset to this community I don't care what anyone says! he had his beliefs sure but in no way did he deserve to be banned! I can name other pompous people that would deserve it much more than R3 ever would have but they have since left. I've been on alot of sites over the years & this is the first I've seen anything like this happen. :down:
Dude it's not really your place to comment on such things. From what I've been told, few people know or understand why RealRedRaider was banned and until we know [assuming we will ever know], just let it slide. There are no vendettas by mods on XS so I assume there is a solid reason why he was banned OR it was a mistake OR an over reaction. I don't understand why everyone is going ballistic until you know what happened. You can't think a XS staff decided to ban him because he say informed us of new BP/MM products right? Either way, I fail to see how this severely impacts on your XS experience and if you think the mods are over zealous, then there are plenty of other forums out there :). I don't really care to assess the actions of a XS staff member so don't ask me what I think.
This entire ordeal is just....... sad. :shakes:
And yes, losing RRR and IanY, however abrasive you may think they are, would be a loss to this community.
Cool!:up:
Well yes of course losing them and others would suck quite a lot and then some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baleful
IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
Not really.
Agreed. Clearly, whoever the banning party/parties were had a solid reason to do so...you may disagree with mods and admins (I often do), but I doubt any of them have a personal grievance with RRR or Ian...maybe he was more of a PITA to the staff than we were aware of. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
and what then of the fact that r3 himself has not been told why the ban??!!
Obviously something happened today that said to the admin here that it was time that RRR be removed from the WC section. I still am finding out details on that.
personally and just speaking for myself the only issue I ever had with RRR is that he came across as either the biggest fanboy in existance for MM cases and for that etailer or that he was working for their interests.
That was just my feeling and the cause of the post I did weeks ago on the issue. He has stated that he doesn't work for them and I will accept that. I also spoke to Ben Rising at MM on this issue and he confirms that RRR is just a customer.
On a one to one basis I've spoken with RRR many times and he seems like a decent guy to me. Articulate and very easy to talk with so I'm stating that there is no personal issue between us.
IanY on the other hand is a different situation.
I've known him for close to two years I think and at first really liked the guy even though I saw he was very quick to rise to anger on even the smallest of issues. Then there was the issue with the cars that spoke to his credibility and even then I supported the guy when others were telling me he was just tossing BS.
Then in the last months I've seen him progress to the next step.
Almost a martyr complex from what I saw based on his posts, his titles and his sig.
Maybe it is best for him and the forum as a whole that he takes a break from this place and gets his head screwed on right.
I don't say any of this in anger but just based on what I saw.
I wish it could be different. The IanY I met a couple years ago was a guy that I would have liked to get to know better.
Maybe a break from here can get that guy back to what he was. I hope so.
My thoughts EXACTLY :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
Especially the bolded text... Seriously hit the nail on the head :)
Some people may think me old fashioned in my beleifs but you guys hear me say 'friends first"
A forum is a place where people exchange information and all benefit by that exchange but it only works when it's done in a pleasant atmosphere for all.
This constant bickering between different factions takes away from what we all come here for and God's truth there's times when I think that is these peoples plan. To try and break up what we have here and friend or not, new member or old member, that I won't allow to happen.
The Xs forum in general, and the WC section in particular, is greater than any one individual and all the mods try and do is keep the peace so that the members can come here and learn amongst friends.
It used to be that way and it will be that way again.
It is really that simple to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirheck
Seems to have hit a nerve there buddy! A bit personal for my liking...:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by sirheck
Well said MM. Thanks for you're continuing professional approach to the job at hand. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieman
I can't help but think that my post about G.A.S. (Gear/Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) and the response I received from RCubed had something to do with his banning? I didn't intend nor did I fathom that my comment implied that RRR was wasting his money, but he seemed to think so and was determined to let me know? Regardless, the "welcome" to the forum and to his thread was pure "internet drama" and didn't bother me the least. I just kinda found the whole affair to be an expected response from a person who's very eh.. *chooses his words carefuly* defensive about what he's doing. We all have G.A.S. If we didn't, we'd be happy with the brown box that's shipped from Lenovo/Dell/HP, received about a week after you click "submit" on their web order forum.
The rest of the crowd said to set sail to other corners of the internet - just names I've seen from lurking on XS who I don't really know anything about. I read the RRR thread cause he had some gear that I recently purchased that got me searching and lead me to XS; RRR and I were/are going down the same path albeit in different 'vehicles'.
Reading & learning is the beauty of this medium, all made possible by the ones who take the time to share their experience for the benefit of all. But it's a fact of life that drama and ego are a part of any community no matter the intention of the community. In this format, we're left with a few omnipotent members, The MODS, who restore order when the balance of learning and drama gets swung too far to the side of drama. All fear the MODS!
Idk what to say. I had a few arguments with RRR, but he didn't seem such a bad guy indeed, just a litle to outspoken on his beliefs in a way other people wouldn't always appriciate ( read = me for one ).
I thought he came around though :(
Idk about IanY, he did post something about not caring if people liked him or not, imho abit out of place because the only thing I asked was if he believed in community spirit so there must have been more happening in the background that I was not aware of.
Wouldn't mind having more insight in RRR's ban though, I think it has something to do with Martin's thread.
To be honest, RRRs ban was a long time coming and in my opinion his ban wasn't because of one specific incident, but numerous events that have added up.