but what if its crysis in dx10, and is the only dx10 game on the market, it would show ati's dominance in dx10 for that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightCrawler™
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but what if its crysis in dx10, and is the only dx10 game on the market, it would show ati's dominance in dx10 for that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightCrawler™
So let me get this straight ,,, 7 months later , more memory , wider bus width , more shaders and still it is get pwned by GTX OC and all that time we have been hearing how fast the R600 is and they should prepare the 8800 Ultra for it blah blah blah ,,, it would have been better to tweak the X1950XTX as DX10 card for under 250$ price range and drop that R600 thing and start from scratch not to wast all that time on a bad architecture
think further.Quote:
Originally Posted by gallag
AMD has many technologies ofwich some may be aplicable on GPUs (lower power consumption being one of them). But those techs got to be used in the start of the design and not when the GPU is pretty much finished as the R600 was when AMD bought ATI.
And AMD has alot of good techs ofwich some may be able to contribute in some parts of the GPu design proces.
@noobzed
:stick: true Nvidia has a crapload of cash but the high-end isnt everything.
Most people wont have the cash or wont be willing to pay the prices of the high-end cards. AMD/ATi can stil make decent cash with a good mid-range card.
IF AMDs Midrange card also sux then and only then their in deep :banana::banana::banana::banana:.
These scores for the XTX just reinforces my view earlier this year that the XT would be the better choice. Still waiting on K10 though.
As for the "AMD is doomed", it's easy to see it being a very precarious position considering their financial state at present. Personally I just think this is going to be short term pain for longer term gains.
I wouldn't get your hopes up about the HD 2600XT being much faster than the 8600GTS. It will be cheaper no doubt but not significantly faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by trans am
i call :bs:
:)
I read somewhere a while ago that the G80 was desinged to maximize DX9 performance and R600 for DX10 performance, so I see this as no big surprise. I'm looking forward to seeing how each card does on some DX10 games like Crysis, the COH port, Shadowrun, Alan Wake, Unreal Tournament 3, MS Flight Simulator X, Hellgate London, and of cource 3dmark 07. :cool:
How is the XT faster than the XTX?????
See post #62... :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanborn
I'm extremely confused.... as I see you are tooQuote:
Originally Posted by jas420221
Question:
# AMD ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT (745 MHz core, 800 MHz GDDR3)
# AMD ATI Radeon HD 2900 XTX (750 MHz core, 1010 MHz GDDR4)
Why is the XTX only 5 Mhz faster core.....that can't be right
WTF? I sure hope AMD has a trick up their sleeve somewhere...anywhere.
The sky is falling:explode:
For the people saying that the high-end isn't where the money is at, who is going to buy the mid-range version of a card that sucks? People will see the magazines and BestBuy salesmen who will tell them that the 2900 series stinks on ice. It doesn't matter that they aren't buying the GTX or XTX because half of perceived awesome is better than 3/4 of perceived turd.
Personally, if the XT comes in at below GTS price, I would get one. Perhaps 2 if they were cheap enough.
it's almost always about price point except for the very very very top end cards. Then the better arch wins out.
Ryan
Im afraid this is foreshadowing K10s fate once its released. Oh well, I guess we will have to wait for Intel or Nvidia to get lazy again.
in b4: They want to keep it secret till the last minute to suprise Intel lololol.
well it'll all be OK if amd manage to convince the oem's that moving to ddr4 is OK.
all is against them because ddr5 for gpus is already being tested.
and most of the oem would probably want to jump a generation.
(i bet ati and nvidia themselves are testing it)
ram technology is quite fast developing today so it's no wonder that that had happened. they should have seen that coming.
seems thers a mole/s @ ati doing really good job of slowing things down.. :scope:
yeah right...mom didn't give you enough love?Quote:
Originally Posted by frankR
First of all:I'm getting fed up of those guys who scream"told you so",second:there are other features on a 2900 card that nVidia doesn't have.Or is it all about having the biggest e-peen?I don't care who has the fastest card or the longest d***k.I'm happy with a 2900xt card:If this card is not as good as a GTX,but it's 100 euro's cheaper,quick choice for me.It's not always like this:the most expensive is the best.
GDDR4 have weaker timings than GDDR3, but that would not hurt performance that much. I call this real BS. Maybe card didn't switched to 3D mode during benchmarks. Remember 8800GTX first samples with wrong resistor value?
I wonder how much Nvidia paid for Dailytech to do all this.
dont anyone be happy about this, even Nvidia fanboys. its a sad day as then who the hell is going to force nvidia to exceed themselves with G90 if G80 is better than ATIs latest? this is a sad day for me, was hoping(even though I knew otherwise) that R600 would be just a bit better than G80 and then G90 would be better again.
but yeah it justifies most of us with our early adoption of G80 when the naysayers were telling us we made a big mistake buying it with its raw drivers.
put those results in your pipe and smoke them! :p:
Little birdie told me that R600 will be better than G80, don't worry.
you and bloodbanger are sad fanboys. get a grip you are not affiliated to nvidia or ati so dont post BS like that, you are going to look even more stupid when the retail release performs as badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasparz
why do these results actually hurt some peoples feelings that dont work for the company involved? fanboyism is pretty sad really. i always just go for the best cpu and gpu, I couldnt give 2 sh*ts as to who makes it. isnt that all that matters, its the best?
Kasparz, I would shoot that birdie tbh. :p:
It just means Nvidia won't try as hard to make G90 a killer.
XTX roughly the same as XT says it all about DT's review. Who knows what chip they got there :rolleyes:
perhaps another XT, a14 eh?
I just think their XTX is underclocked.....a 5mhz difference in core??
WTF, what is or who is Little birdie??, who the heck is calling himself Little Birdie?? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasparz
that was my fear but hopefully they will try even harder in an attempt to win more of the market share. then I hope ATI will bring their next offering and it will be a great one. not holding any breath over this though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanborn
There is no way the r600 is like this. Either some nvidiots are benching with bias, or they did something wrong.
ATI would never release something so crappy... At least I hope not.
I have a question.....
How is Dailytech the only site that has benchmarks for XT OR XTX....and if they are the only site, why do they claim they had "limited time".
Did ATI just show up at their doors and tell them the embargo didn't apply to them, so here is a video card for 12 hours?
……………….._¸¸_.………………………………….|¯'-„*-„Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasparz
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don't use ascii art.
Especially when I can't even tell what it is.
Looks like a guys face.
That birdie have nomex armor :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pumbertot
I don't like nvidia cards at all. I had lot of Nvidia cards, lastest one was 7800gt, but i prefer ATi. I just like their style.
There are things that i dislike in Nvidia and thats holding me off.
Mudkips keeps posting spam in his posts(is that a plural for 4 ??).Anyhow ,he should stop that asci spam.
Don't worry amd, I am buying your hd2900xt anyway.
Why? Because of the free FSAA at low res, like what I am doing 1280X720, that HD video decoder chip thingy, the folding@home on the card ability, and last but not least, I felt the 680 pain, and i'll buy ati now thanks.
Cards are seeded throughout before release, including to reviewers, with attached NDAs. Other times reviewers get cards through board makers, etc. Whether the reviewer broke their NDA or are keeping their source secret, these are the likely scenarios if they're the only ones with the card. They could also be lying with bogus results or ATI/AMD could have sanctioned the review.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanborn
Regardless of what the actual scenario is, the sample size is too small to determine how valid these results are. I'd withhold judgement until more reviews are released to get a consensus.
I tend to believe the results. Cuz if the card is really good, AMD won't be so secretive about it. It's not like it's going to take away any sales from their own X1900 series, especially when it's so close to the launch. So I think the card is doing this bad and AMD is trying to keep it secretive for as long as possible and maybe doing some last minute driver tweaks hoping to get a little bit more out of it, but that's about it.
I think you'd be crazy to think these numbers are anywhere close to what we will see when the product arrives in the middle of May.
The Dailytech review stated that the XTX card they tested was one of the old OEM cards produced earlier. Lets wait and see what the final RETAIL XTX card can do. I bet the clocks are higher, 800MHZ+ for the core maybe.
Eh torn on the results myself.
It really doesn't look impressive on that. Yet without any sort of DX10 game or benchmark to go on its hard to say really whats the better card.
Some of the tests look fake. I'd really like to know what test they ran for HL2 EP1.
this explains why nvidia's roadmap mentions no future cards till sm4.1. 8800gtx is good enough till then!
orly? They did the EXACT same thing with the R520/X1800s.Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmad
Does that mean that maybe there is an X1900 type around the corner for the R600? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Worst are yet to come,i hear that they will come from Spain....
Well its all really sadd. 7 month of waiting and hype and they give a card that cant even beat nvidias 8800GTX! ATI, you can do better!! :stick:
Amen brother! I'm like that too, but about ATI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasparz
I'm gonna wait for more benches and from better sites till I make my final judgment, but it does not look good. There is one interesting thing I'd like to point out though. On the comments on DailyTech, some guy pointed out that he's never seen another site manage to get almost 100fps with an 8800GTX in Oblivion running 1900x with all the options, 70 is the fps they generally get in an indoor benchmark of the game and the outdoor scenes are much more demanding and numerous people agreed with him. I'm about to go check some sites and see if that's true, if it is then something isn't quite right over there :stick:
But the x1800 was a superior card.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Anyways, we need numbers to end this monkey business.
Why are so many people in denial Nvidia is just better nowadays like ati was better years ago.
This is already a generation behind so its not a really fair comparo. Though I wonder if ATI will ever catch up. Like AMD with its Hammer, ATI rested on its laurels for a whee bit too long.
I'll wait with my judgement till Ati gets all bugs fixed and better drivers, but if it's really turns out that R600 can only barely compete with G80 than I should be happy that I didn't wait and took 8800 GTX...
I think all this conspiracy hypothesizing is hilarious. Think people! If the R600 was all that, why the stupid NDA?? It made zero sense. It's not like they could be afraid of cannibalizing their own sales when they currently have nothing in the $300+ market atm to cannibalize anyway.
The writing was on the wall about this for months. The rest was all fanboi hype. The mid/low end products are 10x more important anyway.
I will quote you when it is released and we get real benchies...Quote:
Originally Posted by Periander6
I wonder if Dailytech was allowed to overclock the sample of the 2900XTX? If so, why didn't they do it? Just want to see how far it can overclock and what the results can be.
Perhaps that rumor of the R600 leaking power like crazy was true after all. Maybe during that whole process of trying to increase the card's efficiency and lower the power draw forced ATI to lower its specs thus ending up with this "not so great" video card.
It's really disappointing to see what the R600 has become after so long of a wait. I'm not really sure if I want it at all now and I'm actually reconsidering the 8800GTX, the only thing holding me back is people saying that they're having problems with the Vista drivers which is pretty important to me although some may not agree, Vista is pretty much inevitable just because that’s how our buddies at Microsoft operate.
Just my 2 cents.
qft :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Won
well i hope delaying the 29xtx will actually make it competitive.
why does dailytech get to release benchmarks, not other sites?
I reckon its all lies i think amd has sommat up it sleves in the r600 with the right drivers!
But its strange how XTX managed only a few frames higher then XT even at the WUXGA reso :rolleyes:
Half Life 2: Episode 1
XTX 117.9
XT 118.9
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
XTX 100.3
XT 101.4
it even gets beaten up by XT.. .. ohh lord :slap: :rolleyes:
This is amazingly similar to the R480 fiasco. I waited and waited and waited for that pile and this is exactly what happened. They released a card that was only as good as the 7800GTX (some may argue that), and they were about 6-7 months behind as well. Glad I bought a 7800GTX then, and glad I bought a 8800GTX now.
The whole time we were strung along with PR and hype to be let down. It sure does make me realize why I always have Nvidia cards, they are simply always a step ahead. I would be soo pissed if I had waited twice to be shafted.
^^ I've waited more than twice for this card...
of course, i have to take the early drivers and not quite retail ready card into consideration, but the benchies don't seem good for r600. Performance will increase as time progresses, it always does, but after 7 months?? With a time gap like that, the cards shouldn't be trying to catch up to 8800GTX, they should be better hands down in all benchmarks, as technology goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sladesurfer
Something looks seriously wrong here
How can the XTX card be slower than the XT version:confused:
Just look at the difference. The Xtx should show some improvements over the Xt one. Yet their barely any difference.
Specs from Dailytech
# AMD ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT (745 MHz core, 800 MHz GDDR3)
# AMD ATI Radeon HD 2900 XTX (750 MHz core, 1010 MHz GDDR4)
yeah 420Mhz difference between RAM... and again we have the similar XT and XTX specifications... I honestly don't believe they would do another XT XTX scenario. Lol but this time they decided to actually make the XT faster! Rediculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] Teroedni
none of the current "benchmarks" matter
they don't say what AA it's being run at.
they aren't using the best drivers
they don't take into account overclocking potential
they don't even have any firm evidence saying that they're real.
I've said this time and time again, even back in the day when the trend was to say that R600 can walk on water and fathered Jesus of Nazareth.
Wait until it's out, then make your remarks.
:clap: golf clap :clap: Frank makes a birdie on the 9th clearly leading the pack here as ATI struggles for the lead.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankR
I have that bird in the oven, he said that for the first release so i cranked up the stove to 350 and in he went.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasparz
Read the comments on settings. The rest of your remarks are denial.Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink
looks like the inquirer was right about a few things :party: :explode: the super fan boys are crying! :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by xB0n3s
me too. now it's time for SLI ;)
It also looks like all the nvidia fanboys are being childish ^^
The latencies on GDDR4 is what likely made the XTX so small difference wise to the XT.
High timing on the DDR4 memory maybe.
That can explain the score on XTX against XT.
Just becouse its DDR4 its dosent mean its faster than DDR3.
yeah and the GeForce 8800GTX has 64 pipelines and a non-unified shader architecture...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
until we have somethign out that's concrete we can't know worth a damn.
check back, i was saying the same stuff when everyone thought R600 was sent from heaven. It's not denial, it's reason.
If R600 does suck however, I will be the first NOT to buy it(unless the price is right)
If this turns out to be how the 2900XTX really performs and the 2900XT is not as overclockable as I hope it is, then you are going to find me shopping for a 8800GTS-640 soon....
So, the way they present the benchmarks, express the details, configurations etc makes you trust these measurements, ok ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
What if these supposed to be benchmarks are fake ?
Will you eat your words ?
You seem very confident and your comments towards xlink's post can be considered a bit offensive ( unless you've missed a emoticon there :p: )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanborn
I'm not a nvidia fan boy I go with whatever works under linux and is the fastest at opengl.
And out society is a heck of a lot more free.Quote:
Originally Posted by voltaire2030
I was told i'd see a week vacation for using the word fanboy. But obvious it was discrimination.
As I see many users use fanboy over and over and over and over, and never get a vacation ...
Stop the fanboy this and that, no one cares.
People buy from the company they want to , or the card they want to, based on there own reasons.
No one is crying, no one is like OMG, my life is going to end. I never plan on buying an nvidia product again, not because of being an amd/ati fanboy, but because they released the g80, without proper drivers, people waited, released the 680i, before it was ready, people couldn't even use sata for over a month, they still deny the memory issues, and blame it on end users now.
They are a company who cares about their stocks, don't admit they rushed a product, and did new revision to fix the issues with there reference boards, in their silent recall.
I had a 680i, and I wish I blew it up, instead of returning it, cause I feel sorry for the people who rma's there board, and get mine, cause they don't find the problem, cause they only test them for 3 minutes.
I've grown tried of all the negative inquirer talk because most don't realize that it's a rumor site, if they(inq) post something that some people here don't like they cry. The inq in most cases has been 50-50 whether you agree or not. As for the onboard raid issues the 680i has or any other on board controller I say spend a little extra money and get yourself a nice add in raid controller card it blows away any on board sata raid controller and best of all it transfers between systems with ease. I hope the ATI crossfire works in nvidia motherboards just because the nforce 6 series is the other series that has 2 full 16x pci-express with a third running at 8x perfect for a pci-express 8x raid controller.
Too bad the games I play with my 8Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletrax
Too bad the games I play with my 8800 don't play well at all :(Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletrax
Sure, the specs and the benchmarks are always great for Nvidia cards. But all of my ATI's have always gamed better...which is why I was waiting for R600. I have gone from the MX400 > Ti4200 > FX5950 > 9800P > 6800 > X800XL > 8800GTS and in every case so far I preferred how the ATI's performed. The 8800 is a serious piece of hardware though so I'm hoping drivers improve things. I also might use the step-up and go for the GTX, depending if I can get myself to spend that much.
I also remember ATI stating that the R600 would be the fastest DX9 card to date when released... they were aiming for performance on both platforms I believe. I just think Nvidia did them one better that they weren't expecting. I am sure ATI could have done better than this from the get go but they wanted to play cash grab. Release a slightly faster card to get more money out of buyers then release something better than that to get even more money (ala R650-700). I just think Nvidia went all out and gave their 100% from the start and ended up trumping ATI's half assed offerings not giving them a chance at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Even if the XT is on par or even slightly faster than a GTS, the fact that the GTS has more ram onboard still makes it seem a little more attractive. When loading lots of textures with high levels of AA/AF I would rather have 640mb of ram than 512mb of ram.
ATI is stating up to 24x AA. That is going to be hopelessly impossible to achieve considering how slow the cards are appearing to be running when compared to Nvidia's offerings even though they are offering 'only' 16x AA.
The hit from 24X AA hasn't been tested for 1, and has nothing to do with these tests.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantankerous
Also, I clearly remember ati stating fastest dx10 card!
I'll just quote myself from another thread :)
regards,Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
BZ
iF R600 gets 100FPS in game A @ 1280*1024 and the 8800GTX gets 200 at the same settings.
it doesn't matter should r600 scale to 1600*1200 16xAA and get 90FPS while G80 can only do 40FPS
all that matters in a video card is it's performance at the resolution and settings you will be playing at.
I'm still praying R600 is better than what it appears to be in those benchmarks. Will ti be, I have no f'ing idea.
I don't see any direct sources from ATI-AMD ?
Anyhow, I really could care less for flaming wars between ATI or Nvidia fanboy ! We are ALL loosing (price wise) if AMD-ATI goes belly up or 1 cie reign supreme in terms of raw performance ... I'm still old enough to remember Intel supremacy and the price tag that came with that supremacy...
I think its just more F U D from the zilla. but even if it were true who knows how it oc's, How it scales in crossfire compared to 8800, How it runs stream processing in AMD chipsets, etc still soon to know the truth and could be just misinfo from AMD. They are way out there on their PR these days.
lets face it fanboys. this card is buggy and crappy. ati needs to resolve this before release. thats why this card s delayed. till when? i hope not till next years. or ati will eat more s**t.
*I love technology, I hate fanboysm.
time's up, migunani. It releases May 2. :p:
Ryan
XTX won't be released may 2nd. Try q3, if even that.
well i recently ordered new comp and was told to wait for r600 to come insteads of getting 8800gtx and just use my 7800gtx till then after seeing these scores even though they are early benchmarks r600 not looking good so i was wondering when does 8800 ultra come out ?
sorry. did not read the news before posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by FghtinIrshNvrDi
may 2 well be soft launch. possibly the XTX will be delayed till Q3 or somewhere in 2008 (with die shrink, R650?) . i don't believe ati will have bug-free XTX before Q3.
More than likely the core clock being nearly identical is the culprit. There's probably no memory bandwidth bottleneck whatsoever, meaning a difference in latency or clockspeed wouldn't make a difference (assuming they're both 512-bit).Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
I've felt the same way since the beginning, but I wasn't expecting it to take effect this early, since AMD had little or no time to influence the R600's development.Quote:
Originally Posted by Think
AMD, a single company bleeding money, can't afford to fund millions for R&D of both CPUs and GPUs, when both are cutting edge areas of computing.
Also these benches are more than suspicious. The 8800GTX loses only 10 FPS when the resolution increases in a couple games, when on other sites it's much more than that.
thing is it doesnt matter if its immature drivers, or bad review etc the R600 card should be blowing G80 away not just competing with it and maybe in reality it will slightly surpass it. but thats not good enough as its meant to be the next gen not same gen card after all this time.
G90 or G89 will for sure blow R600 away by a good margin even if R600 is a little better than G80.
a sad day for those of us who want the best high-end card, a sad sad day. :(
:wasntme: :wasntme: :wasntme:
The cards I imagine was run as stock I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchZowner
If so, how well does the cards do when clocked?
I watch the fps in games on my machine or others.
If my machine works well and has good performance the addition of a new card are then matched to that.
Benchmarks I do but those does not count for my buying decisions.
If I did I had to get hardware that cost me like tripple the amount I have today and I only get what a few fps extra for that much more cash?
What does the cards do in fps in games I play and how well do they run overclocked?
That is my criteria at least for getting a new card.
Besides, no official reviews yet, no official word, the few who got cards are saying they are pleased with the performance.
Kind of hard to make up ppl´s minds about the launch.
go figure
Well, metro has some R600 cards with right now for sure. His reponse indicates that maybe there's 8 pages of comments based on a fud article.Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
The last time DT released some early benchs, their numbers said that the 1950pro was 3-5% slower then a 1900xt. A few days later when the NDA liftted, everyone saw that the 1950pro was A LOT slower than a 1900xt. What's is the most disturbing is that they had the cards, as they have a couple of R600 for testing now.
Considering Metro's response and past DT fud articles, I'll wait a few more days to call the R600 a joke or a beast.
Please speak english :DQuote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
translates to "haha stupid noobs, this is really only the benchmark of the HD 2600!"Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
:Prays: