The only reason is it slows AM2 sales. If Intel cared there would not be so many ES'es to be had.
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The only reason is it slows AM2 sales. If Intel cared there would not be so many ES'es to be had.
ROFLMAO!!! That has to be the funniest quote I've seen to date on XS. I'll apologize in advance for my poor taste in humor, but I can't stop laughing.....:p: :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueagent6
makes a good point and its possible that they took them down because of possible NDAs or not wanting to get in trouble with anyone but eh maybe they'll post something on the matter so we can get a final say..Quote:
Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa
In the past, FM has NOT OUTLAWED a CPU or piece of hardware. Why this time?
Because the difference is SOOOOO big.
And I'm NOT a FANBOY, lol... in fact, I've has every FX since 51/940... one of the first actually... and my favorite rig I've EVER owned was a Shuttle SLI box with 7800GT's and a X2 3800+. Darn that thing could GAME!
Intel is in my office rig and my kid's rig, lol...
And I've NEVER bought an EE before...
UNTIL NOW.
It possibly has something to do with Microsoft buying futuremark.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie
looks like you're gonna have to change your avatar then to match your transition to the dark side
and i guess this means no new AM2 FX for you:D
Then why are ES model CPU's allowed on there ? We cant buy them in retail :)
Maybe thru XS or Ebay...
Anyway I think people with extreme hardware should be allowed to post...Doesnt matter if some cant afford it..If u cant afford it you wont be on it and deffinitly wont beat the top scorrers anyway.
Yeah right, it is clearly a conspiracy among Santa Claus and his diligent elves in the north pole because they already purchased all AMD CPU's for children for Christmas and they can't return them to get Conroe's... you've been figured out Futuremark. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_graham
Witty sarcasm at its finest!Quote:
Originally Posted by HiJon89
theres definatly something extremely fishy about all this....
Nothing fishy about it...Think back.
Macci sets "world record" in 3dmark05 with CF x850xtpe's. Couldn't publish to the top 10, even though at that time he'd have HAD the number 1 slot.
Same with the 7800's, infact, how long was it before they allowed those scores to be published for the HOF?
Same with the x1800's.
Same with the x1900's.
It was a week or two before they allowed kingpins 7900gtx scores as well guys. Ask him yourself.
Generally, they don't allow scores in the top10 for unreleased hardware, why should now be ANY different? Infact, generally it takes a few weeks AFTER release before they accept those scores. I'm betting them allowing them in the first place was a mistake... As for 3dmark01, those scores aren't in the HoF, and that's how come they didn't pull those. It's the HoF scores that must pass, everything else can still be "submitted", which explains 3d01.
Wait the 6 weeks, then post it. That simple.
They did it so as the AMD takes some more bucks by selling their newest hardware now that they are still new coz if they don't sell now, in a couple of months, they will not be able to sell them at all - well maybe a few coz of their fanboys - .......Sorry but that's the truth....;)
Excuse me.......We are NOT talking about NEW VGA's here......This happens ONLY with NEW VGAs and NOT with new CPU's.......;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
If NOT for Conroe, I'd ALREADY be on an AM2 rig.Quote:
Originally Posted by ex2cib
Truely a thread to make all XS members proud :rolleyes: :(
no, thats misleading.Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
what happend at that time, was he broke 10K on 2005.
the ORB, has a barrier for postable scores.
they had to raise the barrier at that time, to allow for higher scores to be publishable.
this has happend, many many times around here.
I know it's happend many times for OPP, so ask him about it.
he breaks various records, then has to wait for them to raise the bar, so certain scores are publishable.
it had nothing to do with them deleting scores, or even preventing them.
what happend was, they went beyond the limit of what the ORB at that time allowed, so they had to wait for the limit to be raised.
this is a case where they completly deleted scores, and deny you the option of publishing scores from a specific platform.
something I know I have certainly never seen before, and I been watching the orb for about 6 years now, and I have seen a great deal of hardware, and never have they went in and just flat out denied the ability to publish scores, based on the hardware used... pre release or not.
this is much different... and is very fishy indeed.
Don't get mad, get even; if you think it's AMD, or sellers pushing their AM2 wares, who got the scores taken down, grab a yonah or other Intel chip that's released and beats AMD and take all the top spots from them:)
the orb is just a tool to compare your system to other systems to see how it stacks up. who was it hurting having the conroe's benchmarks posted on the orb?.. amd? nvidia? fanboys? distributers? retailers?... who knows?.. but i dont think any one of those should have a say on who can post their scores.
if someone has some hardware and has paid for the right to post their scores, they should be able to... no matter if the hardware is in retail or not.
I think someone in FM got pretty paid for it (got new car or something).
It's a :slap: for us users of FM products and they objectivity. :slapass:
Now every top score is made on AM2. :stick:
As far as I know it’s the first time that they remove scores of prereleased CPU’s.
IMHO this all about that it’s unfair because not everyone can get this CPU has no bit of sense because not every one can get 7900gt SLI, or 1900XT Crossfire and when we go further not every one can get a computer therefore they should remove any scores from ORB. :rolleyes:
They can make if they want a new ranking but not remove the scores.:nono:
For my personally scores from prereleased hardware helped chousing the right one.:cool:
AM2 should be removed as well soon or I don't understand why the removed intel scores.
I may understand that they deleted intel scores but no way I can understand why the AM2 scores are left.
Guys, the CPU's are unreleased and still under NDA...
Doubt its the fact that the "pwn" AMD's current offerings, or that FM have suddenly turned into "fanboi's" its just the fact that the CPU's arent actually available at the moment. The fact 01 isn't affected is, as others have said its no longer "officially" supported by FM, and the HOF for 01 doesnt exist anymore...
As has been said above, stick an image in your sig and make a thread about it.. Post the scores when FM allow you too... Could even have a go with hardware that IS allowed to go after some WR's, yonah perhaps or AM2?
I've already told you why!......;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SoF
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
NOOOOPPPP.........WHY did they let the benchies of the DOTHAN "780ES" published THREE MONTHS BEFORE the chip was out for selling to public?........Kunaak is right!......Something's fishy here.......:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Highland3r
This is getting funny :D
Call FM and start telling them off, then threaten to sue FM because they don't have any public policy regarding publishing scores with unreleased hw :D Add that FM profits will dramatically go down since you and 1000s of others won't buy FM products anymore :p:
:toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
I'm leaning on this opinion as well =)...Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
I think people who visit futuremark have seen conroe on a forum somewhere--I mean who benchmarks? People that know computers or at least been to a computer forum right? Normal users tend to trust Dell and other computer manufacturers. The "removing conroe to help AMD sales" theory is kinda eh to me.
Yes you are right..........BUT Futuremark is NOT represent "those normal" users, it represent us......ALL of us.......Do you think a Dell or whatever user, will bench and go to Futuremark to see what has he done?.......They don't even know Futuremark........Think about it........;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sealion
A bit late to the party here but it has given me time to organise my thoughts on the matter.
Firstly, putting my Mod hat on I see there have been more self-imposed and imposed deletions in this thread than I have seen in a long time which I think shows that we are all interested in this topic but we must not get too carried away :)
Putting on my benchers hat I have this to say. I understand the reason why it has been done however it is unusual. In the past we have always had ES cpu scores put up as an initial benchmark and they have soon been superceded by the top overclockers when they use their experience and hardware. Nobody said anything. This time people like FUGGER , Kyosen, Coolaler etc have had the hardware and the scores have increased a lot from the off.
In the past FM have not cared about the cpu too much. They have always had the control over the VGA aspect of course because you can only bench when the class appears, but they seemed uninterested in the cpu. In fact they were so uninterested in the cpu a lot of AMD chips were "unknown" for a long long time. Now they are interested.
I wonder when they will become interested in RAM next ? I'm sure some of the AM2 results were actually run when Corsair 6400C3 ram was not official and was supplied by the company prior to release. Where is the dividing line? Are they going to check up on BIOS revisions next and when they are on the motherboard makers site for all to download ? I'm taking it to the nth degree here of course.
For all the people who say "it is not fair " then you are right, it will never be fair I'm afraid, you will just have to live with it. People get stuff because they have lots of money, they get stuff for free, they get stuff early. That's the way of the world. I still like seeing their results though.
Personally this change by futuremark does not worry me. It's only a short time to wait and I take it as rather a backhanded compliment to Conroe/Merom and what it can do.
Finally, one thing that does annoy me is people saying AM2 rocks in 03/06. Actually what rocks in 03/06 is the nvidia video cards and the two world class benchers Eric and Vince who we are lucky to have posting here. I'm sure they will be excited to be able to also bench Conroe/nvidia in the coming months.
Better stop, my monitor is running out of ink.
Regards
Andy
PS It might be fun to have a Whodunnit and then some conspiracy theories to boot. My guess would be an individual or AMD, certainly not nvidia or Ati...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
Yes sorry if I didnt make that clear but what I meant was Dell users havent got a clue what 3dmark is.
Xtremesystems doesnt need futuremark to spread the word of conroe. Every computer enthusiast come to this forum for the current and next generation top of the line computer hardware. Putting Conroe on front page of xtremesystems.org will mean just as much as being #1 on futuremark. To hell with futuremark
I'll stress why the fuss .. the rules have suddenly changed; what was allowed in the past no longer applies now and so people want to know why.Quote:
Originally Posted by SillySider03
True, FM can change the rules whenever they want but in this case it does create a very interesting topic of conversation why they have done it now.
Regards
Andy
What about the I-RAM thing? That really bugs me, and thats available hardware... I reckon part of this is Futuremark getting carried away with itself and its power... they have had a large part, IMHO in making SLI and now Crossfire popular....
at least mbot aint so anal...we can still have our scores in there, for the inter-forum competitive part :)
Skimming through FM license I noticed this one:
Quote:
4.1 Only such test result output generated by the Software, that have been obtained with publicly available products (hardware and software, including drivers) can be published.
If ebay is not public then I do not know what is. You do have to have $$$ though. This is starting to get into the "how much are you prepared to pay" argument and that is not what is important here. What is important here is the why the change in stance by FM.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi
Regards
Andy
they remplaced my 950es results :angry:
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=702497
omg now they are going to delete all intel-es results?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtasy
raiden
WTF is happening with the ORB
lol at that description
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hystrix^
lmao
Heh, someone got high or drunk at FM and had a little fun with ORB :p:
Very strange indeed, must agree that charlie.
It is not likely that it is because of the NDA rule from Intel, because there are official reviews everywhere! Can this be that Futuremark is sponsored by AMD or something??
Anyway, there is something dirty going on :)
I STRONGLY believe that it's time for people who have PAID for the bench programs, to ask their money BACK for NON convenience reasons - if you can understand what I mean - ......:)
ALSO spread around to other forums all over the world this issue, so as to start asking all their money back........and then we will see what's gonna happen......;)
You are forgeting one point here!.......On XS ppl DON'T PAY........On Futuremark they PAY and as long as they pay, they demand at least to treat them fair........Quote:
Originally Posted by SillySider03
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willis
Coz if it'll be a "habit", it'll continue in the future too......;)
Well, I haven't been able to publish any results at all with my 965XE ES chip for the 2 months that I have had it, and I still can't. I fail to see how a 965XE ES would differ from a regular 965XE as both have unlocked multipliers.
I would've been in a top 3 to top 5 position for pcmark scores. I contacted FM well over a month ago, actually more like close to 2 months, and haven't heard a thing. I've paid for pro licenses for everything FM made since 3dm 2001se. I completely understand how FUGGER and others feel.
Conroe chips aren't hard to find. I've had a conroe cpu since early april myself, but have had real trouble getting a motherboard to run it in.
FM can do pretty much what they wan't to do with the ORB, I agree. However the interesting thing is not that conroe scores cannot be published now. The chhip is, after all not realeased for the general public yet. What's interesting is the fact that they at first allowed conroe/merom scores to be published, and now they've been taken down. How come they didn't "outlaw" conroe scores earlier? Why just now? I smell something fishy as well.
And I'll think twice about paying for another FM license again...
Futuremark destroys his own name and there are a lot of people who payed a lot of money for the pro version, and know they delete everything?! how can i have confidence when they are doing what they want without looking after there paying useres?
Yep. The sticking point is a contract. If a contract says in exchange for $, I give you x,y,z and then after you sign, I yank z, that's a breach of contract. So.. what's fm's contract? Demand a refund and close the account.Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
Ha, ha, ha........This could be a nice refrain of a song......:D :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by keiths
It is crap. There should be no censorship on the hardware used to get the highest scores, no matter where people get it from.
If I remember correctly Futuremark allows people to use self-written drivers and everybody browsing the ORB can exclude the scores obtained using special drivers from the search using the filters. Now, they could let users exclude by filters the scores obtained with special hardware rather than removing the scores at all but for sure the reason of the removal of Merom and Conroe scores is not Unreleased Hardware.
Everything is done in the aim of the highest score possible without breaking the few rules that exist.
WOW! This thread was on page 3 when I logged off. Now it is so full of complaining and whining that it is just incredible. You self proclaimed elitists may care about Conroe and scoree, but the masses do not. Most of us will stick to our S939 PC's and have no problems doing whatever we need to on our PC's because we don't feel the need to scream "Look at me I can overclock a PC". While it is not easy to get in the top 20, it has never been easier to buy a top 20 score. I cannot wait until some people that have never been heard of buy all these fancy parts and put some of these "gurus" in their places. The time has come where a top score can be bought, not earned. It is incredible what some of you guys think of yourselves.
Excuse me!.....One question......Why did you registered in the "XtremeSystems"......Here's an "Overclocking world"........We do NOT have our rigs default.....We overclock till it burns and then we overclock harder (from a friend of mine)......:)Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1
You or anyone else could buy "fancy hardware" as you claim, BUT which of "you" could push them THAT hard as those guys did?.......EVEN if you pay over 10000$ , you could NOT get their scores coz they are "elite" of overclocking gurus.......Money just buy, Money don't overclock - overclockers do - ......;)
you`re absolutely right...anyone can go and buy the top of the range gear and have great scores, but its the legends and experts here that`ll still overclock them and pull away from the joe public owners. You`re a fool.Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1
I think more about two months.....;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SillySider03
Thank you for not reading my post. I never said that no names will be beating the "legends'. What I did say is that there has never been a time when hardware overclocked so easily. Sure top scorers will always do better with LN2, Cascades and so forth. But the hardware is so easily overclocked it will be something to see. Nice to see that you have also resorted to name calling as well. Grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by K404
Are you so sure it cannot be done? You know nothing of me yet you are willing to classify me? What makes you so much better that you deserve to classify people?Quote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
word :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by G H Z
I'm not talking about you exclussively......I'm talking about "you" in general.....and I don't classify anyone......read my post more carefully and you'll get my point......Sorry if I was heard irritated to you......Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1
One of the most important aspects of being able to bench at this level is having it as an obsession. No matter how much money you have you have to be prepared to put the hours in and be prepared to accept the fact that for everyone step forward you have to take two steps backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1
Money will never buy that.
Regards
Andy
b1lk1 I'm going to PM you in a minute.
I'm closing this thread so to let everybody take a breather and to stop it going rapidly down the pan.
Some very relevant comments by both sides though, points worth thinking about.
Regards
Andy
Thanks Andy.
The Conroe is far to powerfull for the ORB today, it is very unfair to AMD and the AM2 product launch.
Its amazing how people get so ugly when I make a thread to point out scores were removed. I love the newb your whining post or better yet when you think I bash AMD. Lets me know I am doing a good job.
I mearly started a thread pointing out that FM changed = saving lots of us (those with Conroes or Meroms) time and effort to find out they cant submit as well. GG FUGGER for thinking of others and the news of the changes.
FYI, I am human too.