6800le 'Black Screen' - The Complete Guide: Identification, modification and reason

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10-25-2005, 01:09 PM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertos

Hi All!

I’ve wrote few words about my card some time ago. I have GW 2100LE (6800LE GPU) with green caps.: 43 470 6E. My problem was that sometimes I had these “freezes” of image and sound, which blocked my PC for few seconds, and after that could play on. Now I’m here again because it seems that finally my card goes down too. As you already noticed FEAR demo probably causes much more effective the BS and that is true with my card as well. So, this was the moment to do the Enhanced Cap Mod and I did it ;) I removed capacitor (1500 F with 6,3V) from my damaged ASUS MB and putted it into the TP9 and TP10 holes. I didn’t have to much time to test the card, but you know what – as I wasn’t able to play with memory clock higher than 745 MHz (my card seemed to be in a little bit better condition then all the rest, because I hadn’t to lower clock below default freq.) without having BS after few secs, now It goes beautiful even with MemClock =800 !! So it seems to work fine for me.
Many thanks to SikkaRipa for great work!
For the future, I have a question – how can I recognize the ESR value on the capacitors? Is it marked some way?

And the second thing that bothers me is the annoying, high squeaking sound which flows from my card when it goes to display some 3D images (especially in FEAR’s or Silent Hunter III menu screens). What can I do about it? Will the ferrite ring work for me? I don’t hear anything in headphones – simply the card itself gives the sound… :(
Please advise! Many thanks in advance

Hi,

At first: one user reported he could remove freezes with cap mod !! He utilized a good capacitor (Panasonic FC) meant for MB's. Here is datasheet of that capacitor

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/21084.pdf

The component is 3300 uF/6.3 V, which give ESR = 38 mohm. It is similar model to one shown in "Enhanced capacitor modification" figure, with 'gold' markings "4700 uF" (I know this because I purhased that cap also for him ;) )
This is also 'certain' answer 'how-to-identify' low-ESR: by looking codes of capacitors and by buying only models you know. Low ESR value CAN NOT be seen or measured easily. ((I have been buiding ESR meter for a while, now I have version 3 and still not happy with accuracy :( ))

Noisy audio is a hard issue. The noise coming from headphones can be filtered (partly) with that ferrite 'gadget' or switching off CD-audio but whistles coming directly from card can not be removed (AFAIK).
10-25-2005, 05:17 PM
Firechicken

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Hi Firechicken,

Nice increase on OC-frequency :)

--

Is your card similar to some of those shown in documents (with nvidia cooler like 'point-of-view') ?

'Black screen' is almost is every case appeared having high OC'ing with this card. So, only some cases have been reported that artefacts etc. limits performance.

It can be possible your capcitors are little bit deteriorated, BUT while having 901 MHz :) those are still quite good condition.

Hello yes my card looks like the first card in the first pic with three different cards on it on the first page of this article lol, it has the nvidia cover with nalu on it with the black dragon fin looking ram heat sink on it.
One interesting thing I thought was the use of purple,green,and black capacitors, c139 and 146 are purple 4 12 svp 330 16, caps 136 and 146 are purple 332 svp 1500 2.5. the two green caps in question c136 and c143 are 4 2 470 6e and one more purpple c142 342 svp 560 10. The rest are black. This card would black screen at even stock 300/700 clock speeds if I turned on aa and af in games or 3d mark 05. So I know your reasearch shows that with clocks that I am getting might indicate decent caps, however some points have also showed that these green caps (which is what my c36 and 143 are) have a high tendancy to be in poor condition,so my question to you would be: Could having a whole bunch of good svp caps be helping to make up for the poor green ones that I have or do those caps not matter? I also wonder if I could run the 3d mark 05 at those 360/901 settings if I switched out those two green demons. MD.
10-26-2005, 04:26 AM
bertos

Thanks for the reply...

Too bad, about that noise :( It's driving me crazy...

And regradind to the capacitors, I suppose that getting a Panasonic, good cap. will be hard here in Poland ;) ... On the other hand, I think that this one I used (from Asus mobo) should be of quite good quality, although there is only 1500 mikrofarads. How do you think?
Do you think that my modification will stand some time (more than few months) ?
10-26-2005, 12:56 PM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firechicken

Hello yes my card looks like the first card in the first pic with three different cards on it on the first page of this article lol, it has the nvidia cover with nalu on it with the black dragon fin looking ram heat sink on it.
One interesting thing I thought was the use of purple,green,and black capacitors, c139 and 146 are purple 4 12 svp 330 16, caps 136 and 146 are purple 332 svp 1500 2.5. the two green caps in question c136 and c143 are 4 2 470 6e and one more purpple c142 342 svp 560 10. The rest are black. This card would black screen at even stock 300/700 clock speeds if I turned on aa and af in games or 3d mark 05. So I know your reasearch shows that with clocks that I am getting might indicate decent caps, however some points have also showed that these green caps (which is what my c36 and 143 are) have a high tendancy to be in poor condition,so my question to you would be: Could having a whole bunch of good svp caps be helping to make up for the poor green ones that I have or do those caps not matter? I also wonder if I could run the 3d mark 05 at those 360/901 settings if I switched out those two green demons. MD.

Thank you for info about the card. This example shows (again) that green "4 2 470 6E" capacitors are NOT good, but get ruined finally.

--

I think only important components (=should be replaced) are the green capacitors. However, the RoHs issues makes things little bit complicated. It COULD be that some other components have also deteriorated during manufacturing, but so far users have got very good results by changing only those two capacitors.
10-26-2005, 01:27 PM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertos

Thanks for the reply...

Too bad, about that noise :( It's driving me crazy...

And regradind to the capacitors, I suppose that getting a Panasonic, good cap. will be hard here in Poland ;) ... On the other hand, I think that this one I used (from Asus mobo) should be of quite good quality, although there is only 1500 mikrofarads. How do you think?
Do you think that my modification will stand some time (more than few months) ?

Me too (the noise) especially because I know the noise (=current peaks) also 'hurts' also card..

--

The capacitors ripped from Mobo can be very good or very bad. Are you familiar with the 'bad caps' issue concearned Mobo's manufactured ~ 4 years ago. If interested take a look this:

http://www.badcaps.net/

.. so what codes you have in that capacitor ? Which manufacturer ?

If your added capacitor IS good, it might survive some period (up to some months?). I am sooo pessimistic, because cards with "4 3 470 6E" caps have been 'hard-to-mod' and 'ruined-fast-again'.

But I think the time depends heavily on the quality of added capacitor: If an excellent (!) capacitor like this (last in the list, 2200 uF, 7.1 A ripple current !!!!!, price 12 euros..)

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/36108.pdf

.. would be SOLDERED between TP10-TP9 using MINIMAL leads the card works probably even WITHOUT 'green' capacitors :D
10-26-2005, 04:15 PM
Firechicken

Was just wondering is someone finds themsevs with a cuple of good caps left over after doing the cap change and would'nt mind mailing them to canada I would pay well for them as I find it hard to find somewhere that would sell me two. MD.
10-26-2005, 11:07 PM
bertos

Quote:

Originally posted by SikaRippa:

The capacitors ripped from Mobo can be very good or very bad. Are you familiar with the 'bad caps' issue concearned Mobo's manufactured ~ 4 years ago. If interested take a look this:

http://www.badcaps.net/

.. so what codes you have in that capacitor ? Which manufacturer ?

This arcticle about bad caps - it's interseting and shocking! As regards to my capacitor I have to check the markings and will write you, to know your opinion.
For now I can say that it looks quite similiar as this one in the middle (10V,3300mikroF) on you picture presenting Enhanced capacitor modification, however my has another parameters (6,3V and 1500 mikrofarrads)...
10-27-2005, 07:01 AM
bertos

Hi again!

So, I've checked markings on my capacitor and they're as follows:

Rubycon
6.3V, 1500 mikroFarads
YXG
T0021
105 C deg.

And? How you think? Is this some good stuff? None of them has any visible marks of eventual failure...
10-27-2005, 11:29 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firechicken

Was just wondering is someone finds themsevs with a cuple of good caps left over after doing the cap change and would'nt mind mailing them to canada I would pay well for them as I find it hard to find somewhere that would sell me two. MD.

Check your PM's ;)
10-27-2005, 11:44 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertos

Hi again!

So, I've checked markings on my capacitor and they're as follows:

Rubycon
6.3V, 1500 mikroFarads
YXG
T0021
105 C deg.

And? How you think? Is this some good stuff? None of them has any visible marks of eventual failure...

As i said earlier either bad or good .... AND you managed to find good :D

Take a look this datasheet:
http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/...inum/e_YXG.pdf

6.3V, 1500 uF => Ripple current = 1400 mA and ESR = 0.046, good values indeed for this mod ! You could make the mod even better by soldering two of those in parallel => C = 3000 uF and ESR = 0.023

I hope you'll card will survive for a longer than reported. Please, post afterwards how your card is working.
10-27-2005, 01:26 PM
hannibal216

Just a quick question

I think I have this Black screen issue. On Battlefields2 The sky is all black and I can not see some buildings or any Character/people. This makes it quite tricky! I have a similar problem in half like 2 where there are just lines of coluor coming from certain light sources and I can not see any chaacters again. But the one that is really stumpped me is the error which appears on Rome total war. I get the blue screen of death, after a totaly random amount of time. the error is 'kernal_inpage_data_Error'. It can happen as soon as i fire it up or after 5 or 6 hours (or any time in between). If this is the problem, Is replacement of the capacitors c136 and c143 the bast method of treating the problem.

Thanks

H
(Down with Rome)
10-27-2005, 02:02 PM
OnBoard

Succesfull Ultimate capacitor modifiaction

Hi all,

I have a Gainward 6800le one of the really early one, came in a bulk box a year ago. Black screen was instant and did capasitor mod as soon as I found out about this. Used 2200uF power supply capasitor and worked fine.
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3...dcap4ht.th.jpg
Wanted to be on the safe side and decided to change the bad caps and to get rid of the extra cap. Took an hour to solder the old capasitors off, even if I had some good leverage.
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/8...cap13hj.th.jpg
Old ones off and new PXH ones (from SikaRippa) waiting to get in.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7...cap21vw.th.jpg
Some 30min of soldering the new in place. pretty good job, if I say so myself
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2...cap32tp.th.jpg
Artic Cooler NV5 back on place (put some Artic Silver 5 on the core) card's not bent, just distortion from the lens.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3...cap46lu.th.jpg
2½ hours for the whole job, working fine without the extra capasitor, tested with ski alpine and some flatout. Used to run the card 350(core)/850(mem) 10mhz under what the driver would pass, now memory passes 880, so a little bit extra from the mod.

Thanks again SikaRippa and let me know how bad the old caps were :)
10-27-2005, 10:07 PM
bertos

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

As i said earlier either bad or good .... AND you managed to find good :D

Take a look this datasheet:
http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/...inum/e_YXG.pdf

6.3V, 1500 uF => Ripple current = 1400 mA and ESR = 0.046, good values indeed for this mod ! You could make the mod even better by soldering two of those in parallel => C = 3000 uF and ESR = 0.023

I hope you'll card will survive for a longer than reported. Please, post afterwards how your card is working.

That's great! Thanks for good news :D .... Now I'll take some time and will test the card, so I'll let you know how it is working!

Thanks again!

-> OnBoard - congratulations for your success! Hope the card will stand forever now :)...
10-28-2005, 07:17 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by hannibal216

I think I have this Black screen issue. On Battlefields2 The sky is all black and I can not see some buildings or any Character/people. This makes it quite tricky! I have a similar problem in half like 2 where there are just lines of coluor coming from certain light sources and I can not see any chaacters again. But the one that is really stumpped me is the error which appears on Rome total war. I get the blue screen of death, after a totaly random amount of time. the error is 'kernal_inpage_data_Error'. It can happen as soon as i fire it up or after 5 or 6 hours (or any time in between). If this is the problem, Is replacement of the capacitors c136 and c143 the bast method of treating the problem.

Thanks

H
(Down with Rome)

Hi,

Your case does not sound 'black screen issue' as it does not SHUT DOWN the computer (?), if I undestood correctly.
I wonder you have some problems with drivers and/or Windows settings, especially those cases having wrong colors etc.

About 'blue screen' with 'Rome total war'. When the program crashes, is it a complete shutdown or does the game just terminate to desktop (=not hang, shutdown) ?
10-28-2005, 07:28 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnBoard

Hi all,

I have a Gainward 6800le one of the really early one, came in a bulk box a year ago. Black screen was instant and did capasitor mod as soon as I found out about this. Used 2200uF power supply capasitor and worked fine.

Wanted to be on the safe side and decided to change the bad caps and to get rid of the extra cap. Took an hour to solder the old capasitors off, even if I had some good leverage.

Old ones off and new PXH ones (from SikaRippa) waiting to get in.

Some 30min of soldering the new in place. pretty good job, if I say so myself

Artic Cooler NV5 back on place (put some Artic Silver 5 on the core) card's not bent, just distortion from the lens.

2½ hours for the whole job, working fine without the extra capasitor, tested with ski alpine and some flatout. Used to run the card 350(core)/850(mem) 10mhz under what the driver would pass, now memory passes 880, so a little bit extra from the mod.

Thanks again SikaRippa and let me know how bad the old caps were :)

Hi,

Nice report :toast:

--

Yes, it is quite hard job to remove the old capacitors, but when done the results are rewarding !

I think the RoHs-issue has to be reason why desoldering is so difficult. A higher melting point of ~ 30-40 C degrees is enough to prevent solder melt with a low power/ fine tip soldering iron. I used myself an iron with extremely fine tip and desoldering was too difficult in spite of high power (iron).

--

I'll measure & report characteristics of all capacitors I have received (thank you for all those sent old capacitors :) ). However, measurement setup is not ready (=accurate), and I can not give any result yet
10-28-2005, 10:30 AM
KoR_Wraith

Quote:

About 'blue screen' with 'Rome total war'. When the program crashes, is it a complete shutdown or does the game just terminate to desktop (=not hang, shutdown) ?

Hello, I used to have that problem and it is very easy to fix. The problem is that when u minimize rome, and then re-open it, it does something funny. It will play for a little while then crash to a blue screen. To fix this problem simply do not minimize RTW!!

P.S. I only seem to remember the problem occuring when I minimized in a battle, it would blue screen as soon as the campaign map loaded again...so maybe it is ok to minimize in campaign, but not in battles.

P.P.S. For some reason I no longer have this problem - maybe updated drivers fixed it.
10-28-2005, 10:13 PM
OnBoard

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Hi,

Nice report :toast:

--

Yes, it is quite hard job to remove the old capacitors, but when done the results are rewarding !

I think the RoHs-issue has to be reason why desoldering is so difficult. A higher melting point of ~ 30-40 C degrees is enough to prevent solder melt with a low power/ fine tip soldering iron. I used myself an iron with extremely fine tip and desoldering was too difficult in spite of high power (iron).

--

I'll measure & report characteristics of all capacitors I have received (thank you for all those sent old capacitors :) ). However, measurement setup is not ready (=accurate), and I can not give any result yet

Seems I was a bit hasty on the working conclusion. With 850mhz on memory I get a blak screen in toca race driver 2 in couple of races. Tried 800 after that and could play couple hours, but then again. So mayby those 470uF:s are too small? (You had 820uF:s) If I put a 1000uF motherboard cap on the test points, that should help, would be small enought to fit on top. No idea on the quality, so I'll take a picture and add it here. Would have been nice to have a working card with so much work, quite funny though, made a BS card from a working one :P

ps. what's RoHs?

http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/2...caps7ks.th.jpg
10-29-2005, 03:55 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnBoard

Seems I was a bit hasty on the working conclusion. With 850mhz on memory I get a blak screen in toca race driver 2 in couple of races. Tried 800 after that and could play couple hours, but then again. So mayby those 470uF:s are too small? (You had 820uF:s) If I put a 1000uF motherboard cap on the test points, that should help, would be small enought to fit on top. No idea on the quality, so I'll take a picture and add it here. Would have been nice to have a working card with so much work, quite funny though, made a BS card from a working one :P

ps. what's RoHs?

Sad you did not get as good results than expected :( You have worse performace than before (with added capacitor) ? I'll summarize your case (correct?):

1. An old (very first version) GW 6800le with "4 3 470 6E" capacitors, and gave BS very soon
2. An added capacitor between TP10-TP9 removed BS at STOCK frequencies
3. Capacitors C136 & 143 replaced to PXA's => no BS at STOCK frequencies, but give BS ~800 MHz (depeds of course on application). Moreover, you DO not have extra capacitor right now

So, replacing capacitors decreased "BS frequency" compared to case "2" ? I'll write a more (general) detailed explanation below, but first answers to your questions.

- I think 470 uF should be enough, SOME enchancement COULD be obtained with e.g. 820 uF or 1200 uF capacitors. Reason is that the most of these cards very well, long time, even with originals
- Adding a capacitor ripped from MOBO might give some boost to OC-frequency. I could not find the exact model in your figure. However, if your mod worked for a long time (you were using the same model?) these are most likely OK.

RoHs = 'Restriction of use of Hazardous Substances' i.e. in practice to manufacture electronics without poisons like lead. Nice idea, but adds lots of problems too..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some general comments about 'BS-frequency" based on my investigations (testing/collecting data).

- Maximum memory (OC) frequency (BS-frequency) is almost every case limited by 'Black screen'
- 'Black screen' is caused by IMPROPER design of the switching regulator i.e. fast change at current consumption (=load) is interprepted as a SHORT => shutting down !
- The higher memory frequency the higher current consumption and the probability to get BS increases
- BS-frequency is function of (at least two) following aspects: condition of memory capacitors (C136&143) AND response of the feedback of the regulator
- In the case BS-frequency is near (or lower) to stock values the memory capacitors are 'no more' i.e. ESR has increased, capacitance decreased etc.
- In the case BS-frequency is moderate high, say >= 800 MHz, the most dominating factor can be (in addition to capacitors!!) the feedback response

Thus, changing the capacitors does not necessarily increase OC-capability !! A good example of this was verified by 'zxcv' :up: . He replaced capacitors, BUT did not get any boost to OC-frequency at all. We were investigated the issue little bit and more optimal values for the feedback components were found. Please take a look pages ~14 - 15 in this thread e.g. posts #361, #396 will be a good starting point. In the case having OLD card these capacitor values can be FAR AWAY from optimal ones e.g. like the MSI 6800le in that example (by 'money2'). The changing of the feedback comonents is a good choice IF maximal OC is wanted, but this mod requires skillfull soldering.
10-29-2005, 09:32 AM
OnBoard

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Sad you did not get as good results than expected :( You have worse performace than before (with added capacitor) ? I'll summarize your case (correct?):

1. An old (very first version) GW 6800le with "4 3 470 6E" capacitors, and gave BS very soon
2. An added capacitor between TP10-TP9 removed BS at STOCK frequencies
3. Capacitors C136 & 143 replaced to PXA's => no BS at STOCK frequencies, but give BS ~800 MHz (depeds of course on application). Moreover, you DO not have extra capacitor right now

So, replacing capacitors decreased "BS frequency" compared to case "2" ? I'll write a more (general) detailed explanation below, but first answers to your questions.

- I think 470 uF should be enough, SOME enchancement COULD be obtained with e.g. 820 uF or 1200 uF capacitors. Reason is that the most of these cards very well, long time, even with originals
- Adding a capacitor ripped from MOBO might give some boost to OC-frequency. I could not find the exact model in your figure. However, if your mod worked for a long time (you were using the same model?) these are most likely OK.

RoHs = 'Restriction of use of Hazardous Substances' i.e. in practice to manufacture electronics without poisons like lead. Nice idea, but adds lots of problems too..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some general comments about 'BS-frequency" based on my investigations (testing/collecting data).

- Maximum memory (OC) frequency (BS-frequency) is almost every case limited by 'Black screen'
- 'Black screen' is caused by IMPROPER design of the switching regulator i.e. fast change at current consumption (=load) is interprepted as a SHORT => shutting down !
- The higher memory frequency the higher current consumption and the probability to get BS increases
- BS-frequency is function of (at least two) following aspects: condition of memory capacitors (C136&143) AND response of the feedback of the regulator
- In the case BS-frequency is near (or lower) to stock values the memory capacitors are 'no more' i.e. ESR has increased, capacitance decreased etc.
- In the case BS-frequency is moderate high, say >= 800 MHz, the most dominating factor can be (in addition to capacitors!!) the feedback response

Thus, changing the capacitors does not necessarily increase OC-capability !! A good example of this was verified by 'zxcv' :up: . He replaced capacitors, BUT did not get any boost to OC-frequency at all. We were investigated the issue little bit and more optimal values for the feedback components were found. Please take a look pages ~14 - 15 in this thread e.g. posts #361, #396 will be a good starting point. In the case having OLD card these capacitor values can be FAR AWAY from optimal ones e.g. like the MSI 6800le in that example (by 'money2'). The changing of the feedback comonents is a good choice IF maximal OC is wanted, but this mod requires skillfull soldering.

1. Right (bought october 2004)
2. Right
3. Right and no extra capasitor

Replacing capasitor removed BS, compared to stock, but I did not have BS with the extra cap :p: Here's a picture of the one I used 4moths 24/7 on testpoints (the white stuff is some paste that held them all together in the powersupply)
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/9...ycap5kf.th.jpg
And the question of 470 being enough was for OC, just have seen these memories run 900+. As they are rated for 800mhz I assumed that it would work with no problem. Don't need no crazy OC, but used to run on stock all the time, 'cause I was afraid for those caps failing. 850 just on 3dmark runs and 800 if a game needed it. 12 pipes and 6 vertex shaders is getting slow on stock cloks ;)

So that what's RoHs is about, no wonder those mobo caps were also so tight. Are they afraid that we might lick our components like little babies :)

------------------------------------------

So if I summmarize my self: I now have a BS free card? Just need to know that this will happen on every (or GW) 6800 card, if pushed too far. I'm just used to reboots and/or errors if something is OC:ed too high, but my card doesn't give error/artifacts and shutdown is the same as it was with bad caps. Reset does nothing, have to power off to start again.
I'll take a look on those pages, have read some of them before, but don't plan on doing more hardmods, especially if they are that small :eek:

And mayby an early warning of BS might be gfx freeses? Had my screen stop for a while and then jerk very slowly forward. After few second back to normal again and soon after that BS. Similar thing happens if you have some HD intensive task behind while playing, but had nothing extra on backround (could not watch hd led as it was rated online game). Don't remember those happening before.

But anyway, thanks for the long and informative reply, feeling better now. Point was to get rid of BS, even if I lost some overclocks, which I might get back with that extra cap. Should not make things worse, am I right? (even if it is not the best quality) I'll report back if it help or not.
10-30-2005, 07:04 AM
inspire

I live in israel and i cant find the proper caps 4 me(the one that doc6000 publish:1200uf 4v svs series SANYO)can someone help me 2 find those caps(or other caps that work for him on his card...)
thnx
10-30-2005, 07:36 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnBoard

1. Right (bought october 2004)
2. Right
3. Right and no extra capasitor

Replacing capasitor removed BS, compared to stock, but I did not have BS with the extra cap :p: Here's a picture of the one I used 4moths 24/7 on testpoints (the white stuff is some paste that held them all together in the powersupply)
And the question of 470 being enough was for OC, just have seen these memories run 900+. As they are rated for 800mhz I assumed that it would work with no problem. Don't need no crazy OC, but used to run on stock all the time, 'cause I was afraid for those caps failing. 850 just on 3dmark runs and 800 if a game needed it. 12 pipes and 6 vertex shaders is getting slow on stock cloks ;)

So that what's RoHs is about, no wonder those mobo caps were also so tight. Are they afraid that we might lick our components like little babies :)

------------------------------------------

So if I summmarize my self: I now have a BS free card? Just need to know that this will happen on every (or GW) 6800 card, if pushed too far. I'm just used to reboots and/or errors if something is OC:ed too high, but my card doesn't give error/artifacts and shutdown is the same as it was with bad caps. Reset does nothing, have to power off to start again.
I'll take a look on those pages, have read some of them before, but don't plan on doing more hardmods, especially if they are that small :eek:

And mayby an early warning of BS might be gfx freeses? Had my screen stop for a while and then jerk very slowly forward. After few second back to normal again and soon after that BS. Similar thing happens if you have some HD intensive task behind while playing, but had nothing extra on backround (could not watch hd led as it was rated online game). Don't remember those happening before.

But anyway, thanks for the long and informative reply, feeling better now. Point was to get rid of BS, even if I lost some overclocks, which I might get back with that extra cap. Should not make things worse, am I right? (even if it is not the best quality) I'll report back if it help or not.

Some short (?) comments/answers.

--

"The RoHs issue" in practice means a solder having larger melting point (30-40 C) due to 'exotic' materials in solder. Therefore, desoldering (solderring with RoHs solder) is more difficult at when using a low power iron.

--

If you ever consider modifying feedback components, practice with old MOBO etc and if you need extra help ask in this forum (or email) :)

--

I am not 100 % sure freezing is relating to BS. Freezes have been appeared also to other GF-cards (e.g. ultras, 6600GT's) and therefore those can not be directly connected to the design fault of the 6800le-cards (=origin of BS). One user reported that freezes with MSI 6800le-card removed when a good, low-ESR, capacitor added to those TP's. So, that would be another reason to test adding capacitor again. Maybe that is the reason you did not have freezes earlier !!?? I did not get/fond data what model capacitor you had, too few labels..

--

It is hard or impossible to say you have now 'BS free card' FOR EVER. However, I believe by changing capacitors the life time of those becomes many times longer than with originals. The life time of a capacitor is related heavily to operating temperature (+some other things, voltage ..). Ripple-current (=ESR) increases internal temperature and decreases life time. As a rule of thumb life doubles for deacrease each 10 °C !! The specified life time is 2000 hours which is only 12 weeks !!! ( 105 °C and maximum ripple current, PXA's). In reality computer is not allways 'on' AND load is not maximal whole time AND temperature is much lower, so realistic life will be some years. Propably some other component will broke down before capacitors again.

In the case of original CV-EX capacitors the ripple current (=charging/discharging due to load hanged) is ~ x2 higher than specified and the life time in such case cannot even be caluculated !!(with the equations provided by manufacturers)
11-01-2005, 10:48 AM
paperotti

Sanyo Os-Con 4SVP1200M capacitor

Hello to all of us.
First of all ... please ... forgive me in advance for my bad english.
I have a similar problem with a Quadro FX-3000 grafhic card.
I know that in this card is missing one capacitor, marked as follows:
"449 SVP 1200 4".
After reading this thread, and after downloading technical sheet from the Sanyo web site, I think that the missing capacitors on my card should be the Sanyo Os-Con "4SVP1220M".
But, at this point, I have encountered a big problem: it cannot be found in Italy. And also in Europe it cannot be sold in small quantities.
Is there anybody there who could help me to find a reseller in USA (or in any other country), where to buy 2 or 3 pieces only ?
Thank you in advance for your kind support.
Sandro
11-01-2005, 01:56 PM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by paperotti

Hello to all of us.
First of all ... please ... forgive me in advance for my bad english.
I have a similar problem with a Quadro FX-3000 grafhic card.
I know that in this card is missing one capacitor, marked as follows:
"449 SVP 1200 4".
After reading this thread, and after downloading technical sheet from the Sanyo web site, I think that the missing capacitors on my card should be the Sanyo Os-Con "4SVP1220M".
But, at this point, I have encountered a big problem: it cannot be found in Italy. And also in Europe it cannot be sold in small quantities.
Is there anybody there who could help me to find a reseller in USA (or in any other country), where to buy 2 or 3 pieces only ?
Thank you in advance for your kind support.
Sandro

Hi,

Is your card similar to this:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...fx3000.jpg&1=1

.. at least in that mode there are 4 pcs of 'Sanyo SVP' -capacitors with exactly the same specifications 1200 uF 4V (the rest of the codes are not so important, just lot codes)

I think some (many) suppliers sell in small quantities, but after post+handling cost the price of one component becomes HUGE. Anyway, here is a link for your: Farnell, Italy page with 'Sanyo SVP' selected :)

http://it.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...ction&x=41&y=9

..at least there you can found those.
11-01-2005, 02:22 PM
OnBoard

Ultimate+Enhanced capacitor modifiaction

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Some short (?) comments/answers.

--

"The RoHs issue" in practice means a solder having larger melting point (30-40 C) due to 'exotic' materials in solder. Therefore, desoldering (solderring with RoHs solder) is more difficult at when using a low power iron.

--

If you ever consider modifying feedback components, practice with old MOBO etc and if you need extra help ask in this forum (or email) :)

--

I am not 100 % sure freezing is relating to BS. Freezes have been appeared also to other GF-cards (e.g. ultras, 6600GT's) and therefore those can not be directly connected to the design fault of the 6800le-cards (=origin of BS). One user reported that freezes with MSI 6800le-card removed when a good, low-ESR, capacitor added to those TP's. So, that would be another reason to test adding capacitor again. Maybe that is the reason you did not have freezes earlier !!?? I did not get/fond data what model capacitor you had, too few labels..

--

It is hard or impossible to say you have now 'BS free card' FOR EVER. However, I believe by changing capacitors the life time of those becomes many times longer than with originals. The life time of a capacitor is related heavily to operating temperature (+some other things, voltage ..). Ripple-current (=ESR) increases internal temperature and decreases life time. As a rule of thumb life doubles for deacrease each 10 °C !! The specified life time is 2000 hours which is only 12 weeks !!! ( 105 °C and maximum ripple current, PXA's). In reality computer is not allways 'on' AND load is not maximal whole time AND temperature is much lower, so realistic life will be some years. Propably some other component will broke down before capacitors again.

In the case of original CV-EX capacitors the ripple current (=charging/discharging due to load hanged) is ~ x2 higher than specified and the life time in such case cannot even be caluculated !!(with the equations provided by manufacturers)

Yes, got that RoHs thing, just tried to be funny with the comment, guess lead in motherboards (and other stuff) is coming more of an enviroment issue.

Oh and before I forget, put the mobmo cap on the testpoints (after 30min on the other pin, gave up for a good solder, it just would not make a good contact, no matter how I tried) but it works and fit is tight. So on with testing I went, first time ever I was able to OC so much that it would do artifacts on 3dmark05 (360 on core and 865 on memory), weird black and green polygons flashing here and there, but it went through. Played toca with 800 on memory couple hours, no black screen, don't remember for sure if there were no freezes also, have to test some more. I'll go for that 850 again 'cause it BS:ed so soon that it's easy to see any improvement.

EDIT: Tested toca a while with the 850 on memory and no problems :banana: so working like it did before and even better. Now that I have a working card that overclocks fine, went and ordered a new one :D Well someone gets a good and tested card for cheap and I get a faster one not so cheap :p:

Thanks for the comments/answers, made me wiser again. That capasitor lifetime was a real eye opener, so best way to go would be overclock memory as you need and not by bios mod, Have 325/700 12 pipes 6 shader bios in right now, was about to put 325/800 in for good, but have to think about it.
11-02-2005, 02:09 AM
paperotti

Yes, my card is identical to the one shown in your picture.
About the capacitor purchase, thank you very much for your soon reply. I will let you know.
Best regards,
Sandro

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Hi,

Is your card similar to this:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture...fx3000.jpg&1=1

.. at least in that mode there are 4 pcs of 'Sanyo SVP' -capacitors with exactly the same specifications 1200 uF 4V (the rest of the codes are not so important, just lot codes)

I think some (many) suppliers sell in small quantities, but after post+handling cost the price of one component becomes HUGE. Anyway, here is a link for your: Farnell, Italy page with 'Sanyo SVP' selected :)

http://it.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...ction&x=41&y=9

..at least there you can found those.

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