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well i used to use the one with teflon part # 80632,but we got a part # supersession from my supplier now all i get is #59235 high temp sealant.I cannt see a bitt of differance other than thickness.still applies and works the same for me.:DQuote:
Originally posted by berkut
and wich one u use ?
the one with teflon looks interesting
Errrrrr.... with all due respect.... the threads on the flare nut have absolutesly nothing to do with the airtightness of the refrigeration system. The threads are not exposed to nor directly contain the pressure.Quote:
Originally posted by bowman1964
as far as sealing on the inject..stay away from the teflon bud,it is going to leaK i tell you.i use a special sealant even on every flare fitting I use
:stick:
The pressure difference (seal) is maintained by the compression of the flared copper against the conical surface (male flare) that it is seated against. Any thread treatment should be directed to preventing the flare nut from loosening. i.e., the flare nut does not leak, the flare does. ;)
In the case of a flared fitting being applied in a situation that exposes the connection to extreme cold and moisture, the primary concern is the expansion of freezing water within the mated threaded surfaces, which can actually push the copper out of the throat of the flare nut, and straighten out the flare (I've seen it before on frozen "endless merchandiser" applications).
If you are (reluctantly) forced to make a flare connection in a moisture-laden, low temperature application, you would want to procure a special flare nut, which has "ice grooves" machined into the threads, somewhat splitting through the threads as they spiral in their typical arrangement. This allows the water to expand out through these machined grooves, instead of exerting the hydraulic force of the expansion of the water against the nut and the copper that is secured.
please refernce pg. 2:
http://www.ecopeland.com/Literature/...TI_S_35024.pdf
:)
Errrrrr.... with all due respect, please note that the threads being sealed (in the attachments of the advertisements of the product) are not flare connection threads.... they are pipe threads. Pipe thread conenctions and flare connections are different.
Pipe threads actually create the seal. Pipe threads are tapered, whereas when the connection is tightened, the seal actually gets "tighter". Such a connection is recommended to be accompanied by a "sealant", to help ensure the integrity of the connection.
A flare accomplishes it's seal by compressing the flared surface of a malleable metal (copper) against a another surface of a conical (similar) configuration (the threads are NOT tapered, they are SAE [or equivalent] threads). It is the compressionof the malleable metal by the retaining hardware (flare nut) that creates the "airtight" seal. Not the threads of the retaining hardware (nut).
Bowman, have you ever come across a leak on a flared connection, that the bubbles from your soap leak detectant emerged from the end of the nut, away from the threads? ... at the throat of the nut......
... think about it. :)
no flares!!! no fittings!!!! all solid sweat!!!! for the love of god dont use either for a second stage. i leave a sealed system on everything i work on unlesss i gota have it
:worship:Quote:
Originally posted by captaincascade
no flares!!! no fittings!!!! all solid sweat!!!! for the love of god dont use either for a second stage. i leave a sealed system on everything i work on unlesss i gota have it
ROFLMAO !!!!
I'll drink to that. :toast:
BEFORE i jump some asses....LOL..
who in the hell even said i used the sealant for the threads..... read read read.......damm do i have to spell everything out in here and use pictures to show everything.
aaaaaaaaaggggggggggg......i am having a very bad day at work....
i will post some pictures later for the mentally challaged....
well i have to go home and pull a assembly book on flare fitting i guess as i dont have a copy here at work,
i guess i wull have to give a class on assembly of fitting's.and yes i do know that because i am one of the few certified parker techs in this side of the country.
i bet no one even knows there is a copper gsk to be used when you connect a 45 degree flare fitting in a vacuum application.as i have a bag of them.
o well .....i will calm down i hope later.....i dont mean to vent but i am close to walking out of my job today.
i will be back later on when i can think calmly....
I think the more benificial aspect of doing this is that it would increase the Reynolds number of the flowing refrigerant thus incresing turbulance and reduce boundry layer effect, which in turn leads to better heat transfer between metal surface and refrigerant which is one of the weak links in the heatpath chain, this would possibly lead to lower temps. if you can do it then I think it would be worth it. I have a HS much like the finned one in the picture but it has a channel through the center of the fins for the securing bracket.Quote:
Originally posted by berkut
Did you consider sanding bakers evaps to increase the surface area.
Quote:
Originally posted by bowman1964
.....for the mentally challanged....
Now, now...... that's not very nice. :shakes:
Cap'n, I think Bowman is referring to us. :(
But before you (potentially) shoot yourself in the foot, Bowman... check this out....
http://www.applianceaid.com/gasconnector.html ... states:
"WARNING - Do not use pipe thread sealant or Teflon® tape on any flare ends because you will not obtain a leak-free seal. Keep flare end of fitting and flare seat of connector nut free of grease, oil, pipe thread sealant and Teflon® tape."
http://www.ceam.org/2611.pdf pg. 18, states:
".... The flared joint couplings shall be made up without the use of jointing compounds......"
http://www.gvii.net/dlralt/instructi...s/FM_II_M2.pdf p.12 states:
"...Do not use sealant. This is a flare fitting and sealant will hinder its ablity to seal...."
________________________________________________
You see, by applying foreign substances to the mating surfaces of a flare connection, you are actually degrading the quality and effectiveness of the connection. I have actaully observed this phenomenon on several occasions (leakage) when an errant technician applies substances to the flare surfaces.
:CTF:
Now don't pick on Bowman. He's having a bad day. :(
Tell ya what. Let's pretend we've never heard of copper gaskets, so he can edumacate us. That'll cheer him up. :D
do you know why no one reconmends sealant on the flare suface?
#1 one cause of all contanimation into a system is mis use of sealant.not that it doesnt help...
i have more than what you have shown....i am a dealer for sake i have seen it all.
but it is the over appying of sealant that is the blame.
MIS USE.over usage.
i uderstand all the manufacturers reasons for saying no.heck i dont even tell many people,but if used correctly it works great....
LIKE I SAID IF APPLIED CORRECTLY.:D
yea i am calming down some....it want'nt you guys.
WORK GOT ME.
but i know a lot of techs that unless they were shown in a class.. it wont work...i do understand where you are coming from.
just being that handling hoses that have to withstand pressures close to 10,000psi on a daily basis....i have seen alot of differant ways of doing something.and i have found that the sealant works great if applied CORRECT to a flare will fill in small voids in the metal to help seal out the possablity of leakage.
by the way....the worst sealing of a fitting is tapered thread ,then flare 45 degree,then 37degree flare,and then o ring boss is next and then flat face oring for the highest pressure rating.
but for the low pressure a refrigeration uses a 45 flare is fine...NO CONNECTIONS at all is always the best,but sometimes that isnt a option.so we put up with flare fitting...;)
hehe, 2 words will be sufficient: better performance :D:D:DQuote:
Originally posted by Russell_hq
I think the more benificial aspect of doing this is that it would increase the Reynolds number of the flowing refrigerant thus incresing turbulance and reduce boundry layer effect, which in turn leads to better heat transfer between metal surface and refrigerant which is one of the weak links in the heatpath chain, this would possibly lead to lower temps. if you can do it then I think it would be worth it. I have a HS much like the finned one in the picture but it has a channel through the center of the fins for the securing bracket.
I forgot to ask- bowman, will you use a pressure relief tank in your cascade ?
Im sure Bowman knows what hes doing. He has the most impressive built triple evaperator system in the world today.
Yeah... but we still get to pick on him once in a while. :D
well got the latest batch of evaperators done today,almost anyways.stayed at work for a while thismorning and used the cnc and finished the latest.
here is a pic of the evap in all the pieces,it has bakers block on the upper half with the high surface area block on the bottom
here is another pic with cover on block
Man....I find that strangely arousing! :smileysex
Beautiful block!!!! :D
block assembled
this is what a evap block looks like after it is brased.and i did 4 today so here they are,i need to clean the outside later and pressure test one tonight.....Yea dude i am pressure testing yours tinight i hope.
forgot the pic didnt i ...LOL
Cool...mine is one of the middle two...great job!:D
how do you plan to connect a injector to that evap ?
it looks very nice, do you plan to run it fully flodded ? or do you plan to cool it with a mist from the injector ?
well injector is not going in this one,much more testing needed.since i have put in the hours on cap tube sizing on these small heat loads i am staying with what i know works well.Quote:
Originally posted by berkut
how do you plan to connect a injector to that evap ?
it looks very nice, do you plan to run it fully flodded ? or do you plan to cool it with a mist from the injector ?
the evaperator is a special design...hope it works.but one of the major problems i see with evaperator designs is surface area.and as in my many evaperator designs.maze designs,multilayer blocks,open chamber.they all worked well some better than others.
i still am a firm believer that the freon needs more time in the evaperator to do what it suposed to do.remove heat.
2 things help that.
long lenghts of channels giving it time to evaperate before it is completly out from the evaperator.
and more surface area(which does the same thing sorta)or make the surface area you have more able to transfer the heat more readily...more effecient designs....:D
over the last year and a half i have many designs i have tried and tested...i know alot of people give me there advice..which i love to hear...but intill the evaperator block is in real life being tested and ran ...they can only guess what it will do..
thats where i have tested more blocks and have learned from the timeless small details i try to see improvements in.
right now i still believe maze design blocks are the way to go.with all the differant angles,they do a great job or causing the refrigerant to break up and more easily transfer its cooling power to the block.
and right now the baker blocks are no doubt the best you can buy right now.
but me and baker are constantly working on new designs.
now is no differant.
the latest block i have done.may or may now work.but like i said before......unless you build it and try you will never know.and i do make a bunch.
i know alot of people have copied my designs,and thats ok.coping is the best for of flatery there is:D
now this block will have more surface area than any single block built before it.completely differant.it is a flooded design that i drilled and made passages in the fins of the first layer to allow the refrigerant to completly cover the lower stage.
then the remaining will push into the baker maze designed upper section,adding the tubalance,and adding to the time in the evaperator.
the block has lots of mass to help in handling spikes in heat loads.
the refirgerant will enter the block from the top to the center and spray into the center section of fins over the cpu die.then spreading outwards and filling the chamber.
now this block is only for benching as it will not work that well in a upright position,to work like i designed it to ,it will have to sitting flat down on the cpu,to fill the lower chamber with refrigerant.
i just hope it works like i think it will.:D